Goldmoor LC

Andvary · Post by **Andvary** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:23 am

Here's Goldmoor_LC3 in two variations as per El Scumbago's suggestion.

3DS file:
http://www.inogda.net/andvary/temp/Tamriel_Rebuilt/Goldmoor_LC1to3_13DS.rar

The parapet is waist-high (ca 100 cm). The roof is accessed via a "ladder" (if you can call it that). The first one I made was somewhat excessively bulky and complex, so I've decided to make another, much simpler one. I've also decided to move one of the windows to the opposite wall. The place where it was shown in the design concept seemed just about ideal to place a ladder. Let me know if it ruined some interior design, I'll move it someplace else. Same goes for the extra window on the tower-like annex.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:30 am

Love'm. The right staircase is beautiful as well. I think we can use both models, but make the dome less spiky and change the distance between the facade's sticks (just for variety).

Elfane · Post by **Elfane** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:06 pm

It's looking great!!! Looking at these gets my brain working on atmospheric stuff. Will sketch and post!

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:55 pm

very nice! makin' me very happy here

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:44 pm

Indeed, this is what rocksauce is made from!

(Rocksauce is in the variety of manly sauces, along with steak sauce, and ketchup)

Andvary · Post by **Andvary** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:55 am

Got it, El Scumbago, less spiky it is. BTW, did you mean just the top, or the edges on the corners too?

So, if I understand correctly, we want both structures with the smaller "ladder", and we save the bigger one for something else. Right?

OK, and does anyone have any specific comments on the LC2 from the previous update? Scumbago, I've deviated somewhat from the concept when I made suports for overhanging elements, what do you say?

I expect to do another one (or maybe two...) by the end of this week if I have enough time.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:14 am

Nice work Andvary.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:48 pm

If the polycount allows it, then I'd like to see the dome corners smoothened, but if not it's alright.
The ladder I currently prefer is the one with the pillars that support it, I assume that by 'smaller one' you meant the plain one, in the building with the dome. I prefer the ladder of the domeless building.

What exactly are these small tent-like, orange things on the model? Are they the 'supports for overhanging elements' you mentioned? What elements exactly are you thinking of? Because tents and the like don't need additional supports as they are.

Post by **Gnomey** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:58 pm

I think you're talking about the rain spouts, or however you'd call them. They're just holes through which rainwater can flow, so that the roof isn't constantly flooded in rainy seasons.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:03 pm

Gnomey wrote:I think you're talking about the rain spouts, or however you'd call them. They're just holes through which rainwater can flow, so that the roof isn't constantly flooded in rainy seasons.

Although it's a good idea, we're getting into too much detail which contradicts to the vanilla Beth style and won't make sense for most people. I don't like saying this, but I think we'd better remove them and stick to basic building mesh and modulars.

Andvary · Post by **Andvary** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:15 am

OK, here I am again.
I was working on the LC4 building, and that beast took four full evenings to make and polish.

On the subject of drain-holes or spouts or whatever. They were added at request of a few people, but if they bother anyone, I can remove them. Removing (unlike adding) isn't hard, easily done. I've removed them at all in LC4, see how it looks. I personally think that Beth went a bit too vanilla in lots of instances (I would have gladly traded some of the unnecessary graphical beauties for more detailed content and deeper gameplay), but that's all right and my implementation wasn't perfect anyway. We can always add this sort of stuff as modular pieces, it might be actually easier that way.

The supports that I was talking about were things that prop bay windows and overhanging parts of the staicase in LC2. The original design had simple wooden planks sticking out of the wall at a 45 degree angle. I've decided to replace those with something a bit more sophisticated. I hope it's OK, because I keep using them in newer models.

All right, here's the Goldmoor_LC4.

http://www.inogda.net/andvary/temp/Tamriel_Rebuilt/Goldmoor_LC1to4_13DS.rar

I kept it pretty close to the original design. I'm showing here the extended building with two arches and a terrace accessed from the staircase behind. I've also decided to add doors leading to the terrace and make the roof accessible. I liked an idea of it being a tavern, so I figured people could hang around the roof in the evening when the sun is down, you know, like in that corner-club in Balmora.
The design didn't show how it is supposed to look from the back. I guess in a building with two arches running through there is no back, so shouldn't I throw a few more windows here and there?

PS:
This time I'm going to explain myself in advance.

I'll have a fellow postdoc (and an old friend of mine), who has recently joined our research group, staying at my place for as long as needed to find an apartment for him. I'll try my best to finish LC4 (and maybe do some other stuff) before he comes (which is going to be on Sunday), but most of the next week I'll be showing him around, getting him a place to live and stuff, drinkin' beer and idly chatting. Such are my duties as a host.

Anyway, I'll probably disappear next week. Just don't start the "he's probably bored and gave it up" discussion. I'm on it, and I'm gonna finish it.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:40 am

Good to know that Advary, thanks:) And I agree with you about the drain holes, don't through them away, keep them in case we decide to add them as modulars. I also agree on the tavern part, that was my intention when making it.

The building looks fine and I love what you've done with the roof. Only two things I'd like you to take care of here;

1) The building forms an L just like in the sketch, but you made both parts equally large. I wanted the balcony-less part to be a less lengthy, and the same goes for its window-holder (on the corner of the upper floor). Do I sound like whining?...

2) Could you add some planks parallel to the 'balcony' that connects the two rooftops? I'd like the planks to reach from one wall to the other so that we can use some cool additions later, like a vine or something.

Other than that, beautiful. I've got two more suggestions in mind, which are not a must-do, but they're easy.

1) Randomize the distance between the sticks that stand out of the building. Once more, they're too symmetrically arranged.

2) Add a couple of windows on the back of the building, I'm sorry about this, I should have drawn a back side, even if it was simple.

3) This is about a slightly altered version of the building. I'd like you to remove the staircase that leads from the ground to the upper floor and place a dome on the part with the balcony. I think they're not difficult changes -you have already made a dome- and they can make for a whole new building.

Now, lemme worship you doc!

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:44 am

I like your work Andvary

You really work like a pro, and I hope that the LC exteriors won't be the only thing you will finish for TR! Many people, even here, share your feelings about the TES IV.
Once again I tought about some polies reducing, maybe I take too much care about it, so ignore my ideas if the annoy you, but... Here it is. I just like simplicity and quality.

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:04 pm

awesome job Andvary, I especially like the wooden bridge thing connecting the rooftops

Andvary · Post by **Andvary** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:42 am

To El Scumbago:
"And I agree with you about the drain holes, don't through them away, keep them in case we decide to add them as modulars."
No, this particular model cannot be added later at will, it requires an actual hole cut through the wall. I can move an existing hole within the confines of the wall it is cut into, but placing drains elsewhere requires new holes. Cutting holes takes lots of time and feels... unrewarding.

Anyway, now I think it was a stupid idea to begin with. I should have made spouts pretending to go through and stick them onto the wall where necessary. And we don't have to use them if we don't want to. Actually, that's what I'm gonna do.

"I also agree on the tavern part, that was my intention when making it."
Aye, I got this idea from mysterious inscriptions on the... Goldmoor LC4 design concept, readme section.

Come now, you should take more credit for what you do. I do read your readme's, man, I do.

On corrections/suggestions:
1. OK, got it. The reason I did it that way was that the add-on part looked a bit too small to house anything significant on the ground floor. Maybe that's because I made arches somewhat wider than your suggested. Anyway, I'll fix it. BTW, do you need the building without the add-on part?

2. All right. Just simple horizontal planks or something arching over the balcony?

1b. You wouldn't believe it, but I do it every time. When I looked at the top plan, the beams were placed perfectly randomly. Now that I'm looking at these screenshots, they aren't anymore. Heck. It must be a curse or something, it must. I'll try to rearrange them again.

2b. OK.

3b. Do you want the dome to cover the whole left wing? Should it be round, rounded square or square? Oh, btw, should it be one with the building? Turning a depressed rooftop into a dome takes lots of time; it would be much easier to have it as a separate object (modular?).

And no, don't just yet. I'm not fit for being worshipped at present. I'm still awaiting my canonisation as an epic hero, and you know how long it takes to ascend to Godhood...

To Aro:
You got me there. I've somehow missed those. Thanks for suggestion.
And no, by that last remark I didn't mean that I'm going to be bored and give up just when I'm done with the LC set.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:26 pm

And no, by that last remark I didn't mean that I'm going to be bored and give up just when I'm done with the LC set.

That's great!

Are you familliar with uv mapping and textures(including the dds format)? I just had a look on your showcase and I've found only meshes

And I would like to know what are your abilities.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:02 am

IIRC, Advary is only meshing for the time being, and the surprising thing is that he picked the trade up very fast!

Advary: You're right about the drain holes, I didn't realize that you had pierced the building's mesh. This should be done with a texture if we decided so.

The planks, just parallel to the balcony, from one wall to the other.

If it's not hard to separate the two parts, maybe they'll be useful. However, I'm not sure about the small add-on part, perhaps it won't be useful as a stand-alone.

It's so time consuming? Sorry, I had no idea it would take so much effort to change the mesh. If you'd like to do it however, and can cover the whole rooftop with a square rounded dome like the ones of the MCs, that'd be fine.

P.S. Credit for what I do? Perhaps, but when I work with you guys, I've no pride outbursts

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:12 pm

This claims forum is way too hidden. I missed another important update. Downloading the meshes now.

As for the domes... aren't they an expensive feature? Or is that only the really round domes?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:34 pm

looks great

will you be doing the textures yourself or leaving it up to someone else?

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:03 pm

"cough" nudge nudge...

no but seriously i'll volunteer to help texture the LC while i'm working on the CITY WALLS (assuming i dont have them finished)

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:15 pm

One thing I'd like to see but forgot to state, is the window frames gone! The windows should be an arch-like hole in the wall, not have a frame around them. It makes them look too elegant and automatically creates the need for different MC window meshes/shapes.

Andvary · Post by **Andvary** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:59 am

Well, it took me a while, but here it is.

To Aro101:
Yeah, I'm working on UV maps too. Kind of.

I can't claim I've nailed it, however. I couldn't find any Max7-specific instructions on this stuff. By the way, any help in that department will be greatly appreciated.
And like I said before, my texturing sucks big time, sorry. Six years ago I convinced my wife to switch to Photoshop, now she's my photoshop guru... Which means she's doing stuff for me when I behave myself properly.

I sometimes despair when I try to draw something with a pencil.

To NexUmMonastica:
Any help with texturing these things would be much appreciated. Actually, I'd love to have some input from the texturer who is going to take this on. It's not too late to change things if it's needed for easier texturing.

To El Scumbago:
For the planks, I took your approach first, but the final result looked kind of strange. I hope you won't get mad at me, but I've done it a bit differently. It's a grate of thin wooden planks arching over the balcony railing. Take a look on the second screenshot. It is done as a transparent solid object with an opacity mask applied (which is why it is not visible in the first screenshot, as it has to be rendered to become apparent). This way it's very cheap in terms of polygon counts. The texture for the mask will have to be redone though, I think.

Changing an existing mesh can be way more difficult than making a new one. Especially if it's a featureless geometric object like a dome. It's just way too much reshaping/reflattening/vertex welding/realligning... Making a separate dome object takes 10-20 minutes; growing a dome out of a complex surface takes at least 2-3 hours. Well, for me, that is. So I've decided to make it a separate object. Here it is below, take a look and let me know what you don't like about it.

Same goes for window/door frames. When they are separate objects and you have a prototype, it's a simple copy/paste/allign procedure. When they are integral part of the building, every one of them has to be individually modelled. So, I'd rather suggest I sink frames into the wall and we apply the same plaster texture that's going to be used on walls. This way all windows/doors look alike, plain and neat, and it's much less repetitive work for me. What do you say?

P.S. It's not about outbursts. You sounded like you've despaired of trying to convey your ideas to others (me, in this instance). I meant to say that I do carefully examine your descriptions and try to follow them as closely as may be, or at least work in that general direction. And I do appreciate your pretty detailed explanations.

3DS file:
http://www.inogda.net/andvary/temp/Tamriel_Rebuilt/Goldmoor_LC1to4_12_3DS.rar

Elfane · Post by **Elfane** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:00 am

I must say good models, but also it does go further and further away from the concepts. Both mine and El Scumbagos. There was a thought with those concepts and the way they where drawn.

Windows should be inbedded into the building, no frame!
The wood grate over the balcony, skip it. Not very LC. If the LC set can and should have features like that we should remake it all. And I dont want that.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:45 pm

I admit that sometimes I do try to convince people that my opinion is the best (that was hard for me to admit

) but I only do so when I'm certain that I'm right. Or when I think I'm certain that I'm right. In any case, when I act like that do tell me. I definately don't want to seem like a wannabe dictator.

As for the window frames, I second Elfane. No frames around the windows, inbedded into the wall is much more LC. I'm not sure about the wood grate, but let's not waste it. I love its style. I'd also like you to make it a modular piece too, I think it'll come in handy in many occasions.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:26 pm

the chamfer highlighted in white should be deleted. it will create bad normals when mapping, and with it gone, the stairs and wall should be two seperate objects.

the chamfer in yellow could probably go, depending on what texture you want to use. normaly, you wont need to chamfer the inner corners of stairs, only the outer edges.

[img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/n1.jpg[/img]

here: the mesh highlighted in yellow should have the polycount cut in half. and the mesh in white could stand two less normals, maybe 3 or 4 since it is a concave arch and will mainly be viewed from the front and not directly from the side.

since the OB engine is very un-balancd, small condense objects like these shlould be as low-poly as visualy possible.
the mesh is very nice: its my favorite piece of the set: but as it is now, combined with clutter and ext objects will bog down the game with lag.

[img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/n2.jpg[/img]

now these are really cool. i dont know if they were in the concept or not but they are realistic and easily missed: i know i wouldn't have thought of meshing them!

[img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/n3.jpg[/img]

EDIT: and the plates behind the door knockers can be a 30 tris chamfered box vs the 478 tris box you have. The mesh looks really cool when rendered but is much too highpoly. with the extra 448 polys you could build a modular for each doorknocker and still have less lag in-game. (since modular's polys will be more spread out)

Andvary · Post by **Andvary** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:33 pm

Elfane, could you please be more precise about going further away? What exactly don't you like? You do realise that I'm going to provide some creative input of my own while I make these things, right? Design concepts that I saw are fine, but they don't specify a lot of details, which have to be added during modelling. Some things don't look quite right in 3D when you actually model stuff. I'm sure you had a very particular thought when you were drawing, but how am I supposed to know what it was? And I guess you do understand that I have a picture in my head too. It may be different, you know...

I see it this way: one of you folks draws the sketch, I build the model (following your guidelines closely, but introducing minor alterations to make the whole thing look right in 3D and adding things that were not drawn), then we discuss the final result and you explain to me what wasn't done quite right and why. Yes, I'd like the why part as well, it helps a lot, really. I don't mind changing things, but I'd like an explanation on what exactly isn't right with my vision of the set as a whole and of that particular object under consideration. I hope it's not too much to ask. And I think we should also wait for input from the texturers, for they may have some remarks as well.

I was expecting to hear that about the grate. Though I certainly don't think it's too fancy for LC (we did decide these are not shacks, but simply built homes of the working masses, right?), I can remove the grate. I have another take with just a few planks in its place, it's no big deal. I was pretty much just training with transparent models and transparency/opacity maps.

About door/window frames. I guess I didn't make it clear enough. The frame you do only once, and it's done already. An embedded window/door cannot be copy/pasted, every one of them has to be individually modelled. It's about 30 minutes per door/window and I have about 70 of them already. Do you get my point? I said I can sink the frame into the wall so that it's completely fused with it. Then we apply the same plaster texture that goes for the wall and noone will notice the frame at all. See for yourself on the screenshot below. Can you even tell if there is a frame?

Edit:
El Scumbago, like I said, I don't mind changing things. Really. Or removing things, even if I have a strong feeling that something is missing from the picture. All I ask for is a sound explanation on why it has to be that way.
As for the grate, I guess we could keep it as a yard decoration or an arbour wall. I don't erase unused models, it will wait for its hour.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:46 pm

if you give it wider chamfers you can have the open frame look like it was simply widened with plaster: and you will also be able to better edit the textures.

and i back up Andvary on two levels
it is undescribably hard to re-boolean proper window holes into the walls for every single window: actualy fix each of the the normals by hand (cant use tools here): then apply a uv map that cooresponds to each edge.

thats for one window: if you have two on the same wall, the process becomes 4 times as long (and difficult). you not only must edit all the normals but you have to place them so they attatch evenly to each window.

all in all, you need to have a complete mesh that you can break and re-weld all the vertecies in, then mesh-smooth without iterations and still have no shadows in your normals. it would be faster to rebuild the mesh from scratch with booleans.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:22 am

Elfane, could you please be more precise about going further away? What exactly don't you like? You do realise that I'm going to provide some creative input of my own while I make these things, right? Design concepts that I saw are fine, but they don't specify a lot of details, which have to be added during modelling. Some things don't look quite right in 3D when you actually model stuff. I'm sure you had a very particular thought when you were drawing, but how am I supposed to know what it was? And I guess you do understand that I have a picture in my head too.

I agree with you in 100% Andvary. Even when you draw concept with your own hand, and then you try too put it into a mesh, there is always something, that needs to be changed, even when earlier on you had a very crystalized vision in your head. When you work with concepts, you think about it a lot (hah, what a surprise...) it's obvious that sooner or later you will come up with some ideas (ideas that aren't about how to make that shape) that in such situation.

Andvary · Post by **Andvary** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:13 am

To NexUmMonastica:
Thanks for constructive input. I was plenty sure that lots of things will have to change as soon as the set gets closer to texturing. Let me know if you notice anything else that needs be changed/redone. Better sooner than later, you know.

On inner corner chamfering:
Does it apply to other inner corners, like where the roof plane meets the parapet? If so, then it would have been easier to make the roof a simple rectangle that's not really connected to the walls.

Drainholes:
Yes, they weren't in the concept, I had them added at request. Now that people think it's too much detail, I had them removed again. Well, it really doesn't have to be so faithfully lifelike.

BTW, that knocker plate... I didn't model it, it was taken directly from OB (\meshes\architecture\lowerclass\doorlower.nif). I would never do it this way, and I was actually thinking of remodelling it exactly for the reason of saving bunch of polygons. I didn't do it yet only because concept artists still haven't given their final approval on this thing.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:57 am

it doesn't suprise me that its from OB, there was alot of inconsistency in their modeling. there are so many things that could have been done with their architecture: granted, buildings like in skingrad were really well done: but where the walls were all intersecting and smashed together: the meshers could have combined them and saved thousands of polys.

the only thing left that i see are your normals: the walls of the biggest LC building get pretty messy when smoothed or edited. id advise fixing it, but i know how much work it is.

Andvary · Post by **Andvary** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:58 am

Heck. Actually, all of them look pretty messy when meshsmooth is applied to the whole building model. I was kind of hoping it's possible to smooth curved elements separately, no? The biggest building must have the most problems of this sort - it's the LC2 split in two, reshaped and rewelded into an L-shaped object. Lots of trasformations - lots of mess with normals. And lots of unused vertices. I was planning to polish it when concept artists are happy with the way it looks.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:30 am

that is a sound plan. once the mesh is "core-approved", then you can go through and perfect all the normals. alot of things need to be re-built in the process, but its fairly simple since you have the shapes right in front of you already. these LC look really good in MAX.

Is there a texture collection submitted for the LC?

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:47 am

There are no LC textures so far. I believe everyone would be happy if you could find some in your collection Nex

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:46 am

I'll scrounge up a small collection of thumbs for my submission, but heed that they wont be worked upon untill atleast half of the models are completely finished: since screenshots and lighting effects need to be made in MAX before i can get the textures right.

Elfane · Post by **Elfane** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:16 pm

Ok, I was stressed and had no time to explain what I meant when writing the last post. But here goes.

When I first drew the concepts of the LC I did make it simple, no details. And that was the way it was intended. Clean and simple.

Then El Scumbaco came along and made the orthographics, he added a few details but nothing fancy.

After that you started to make the models, ofcourse you also add things to the set. Nothing wrong with that.
Though I feel that the set has become more and more fancy. Well not fancy in the UC way but less simple than what we decided that the LC should be (before you joined TR, so ignore that) I have'nt made so much comments as I should to get my will through and I alone is responsible for that.

When I saw that wood grate, something snapped and I felt obliged to say something. It was brute and slightly out of order to do it so harsh, and I apologise for that.

One thing that have bothered me is the double windows. Either we should move them further apart so the center piece is thicker (mud wall) or shove them together and remove the center piece.

About window shutters, if I remember correctly you said that we should take the existing window shutters from OB (dont remember from what set) and add them instead of making new ones. This would be lunacy. At least in my mind. The shutters in OB is rectangular, not pointed as these windows are and the shutters should be. Have I misunderstood you completly or missed some shutters in OB?

The domes, when I drew the concepts I did not have domes in mind, and I did accept the fact that they where added later in the process. Though I dont like the huge dome in the "inn-like-structure". Domes are expensive and hard to do. The LC set should only have smaller domes. That is my oppinion.

Also I dont like the wooden stairs, I think it should be a part of the building (mudbrick stairs). Wood is a rarity. Especially thick wooden pieces those stairs are made of. A thought worth concidering.

I am sorry for being quiet about these things. And to clarify once again, I have no grudge against you changing/adding things.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:40 am

I would find it odd to have domes in all trhee sets: and elfane is right: domes are spendy in culture and in plolys.

but Andvary, your models are turning out awesome. with textures they will look awesome-er smothered in awesome-sauce.

of course, I've seen models made from that program before, but the renderer gives no justice to the model. I'm sure if you rayed it in 3dsMAX it would look 3 times as good.

whatever happens with the windows, though, save 'em. those are really good.

on a last note I think the shuttes should be scrappy and spaced boards (maybe bound with scrap or smaller planks), since the LC can't afford good carpentry.

Post by **Gnomey** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:30 am

Elfane wrote:Also I dont like the wooden stairs, I think it should be a part of the building (mudbrick stairs). Wood is a rarity. Especially thick wooden pieces those stairs are made of. A thought worth concidering.

I'm not so sure if this is true for Rihad. It is near a river where more trees will probably grow, and if not they are right beside the Imperial Province and would probably trade heavily in trees. Rihad being as successful as it is, there's a good chance that wood would be plentiful.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:35 am

But the LC set is itself not going to be confined only to Rihad. Wood does need to be rarer than it is at present IMO.

I also reckon that the LC set shouldn't have much in the way of domes and dome-like structures.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:52 am

in terms of textures, it wories me that they will not fit well with the other arch due to their coloring. would it anyhow be posible to make it white cracked broken messed up stocoe instead of tan colored? it would go much better with the color of the MC and UC sets. im brining back a whole lot of broken stucoe textures, some could probably work with a bit of editing.

and i am in agreement with nomadic. Even though it is near a river its in a moor so the trees are small and sparce. importing wood from the cyrodiil costs good money, so the lower classes probably couldnt afford it even with all the comunist goodness of rihad.

as for domes, i think they should be reserved only for the most fancy of the buildings -- that is to say the inn. even then they should probably be stone/mud (like the rest of the houses) not metal. think that one city -- bam i think its called -- that was used in starwars episode I (tatooine or something like that).

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:27 pm

Tattooine is perhaps the most or second most important planet in star wars.
I'll look for KOTOR screens of tattooine and from the movies.
http://www.thezeal.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/04/kotor-5b.jpg
http://images.google.be/imgres?imgurl=http://www.starwarsknight.com/star_wars_kotor_screenshots_kotor_screen_shots_05_0000.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.starwarsknight.com/star_wars_kotor_screenshots.shtml&h=525&w=700&sz=34&hl=nl&start=56&um=1&tbnid=Y9ZC6BerpRWQgM:&tbnh=105&tbnw=140&prev=/images%3Fq%3DKOTOR%2Bstar%2Bwars%26start%3D54%26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dnl%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:nl:official%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.be/imgres?imgurl=http://www.starwarsknight.com/star_wars_kotor_screenshots_kotor_screen_shots_05_0000.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.starwarsknight.com/star_wars_kotor_screenshots.shtml&h=525&w=700&sz=34&hl=nl&start=56&um=1&tbnid=Y9ZC6BerpRWQgM:&tbnh=105&tbnw=140&prev=/images%3Fq%3DKOTOR%2Bstar%2Bwars%26start%3D54%26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dnl%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:nl:official%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.be/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mccullagh.org/db9/1ds-4/sidi-driss-tatooine.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mccullagh.org/photo/1ds-4/sidi-driss-tatooine&h=512&w=768&sz=172&hl=nl&start=3&um=1&tbnid=-VEjHyW6W_CnBM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=142&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtatooine%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dnl%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:nl:official%26sa%3DG (real one, but used in star wars film)
http://images.google.be/imgres?imgurl=http://www.nachoua.com/Tatooine/tatoo12.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.nachoua.com/Tatooine/Tatooine.htm&h=414&w=649&sz=18&hl=nl&start=4&um=1&tbnid=ECPhzJGcQjMhQM:&tbnh=87&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtatooine%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dnl%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:nl:official%26sa%3DG
http://images.google.be/imgres?imgurl=http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/images/player_housing/tatooine_branded/Tatooine_Small_s01_fp01_front.jpg&imgrefurl=http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/players/guides.vm%3Fid%3D80007&h=300&w=400&sz=323&hl=nl&start=10&um=1&tbnid=RYprB50uAxaztM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtatooine%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dnl%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:nl:official%26sa%3DG
http://www.madshrimps.be/upload/B%7cowie/SW:kotor/Tatooine.JPG
http://images.google.be/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fortheretarded.com/images/tatooine1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fortheretarded.com/%3Fp%3D156&h=175&w=350&sz=15&hl=nl&start=123&um=1&tbnid=lwkn628jTzKT8M:&tbnh=60&tbnw=120&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtatooine%26start%3D108%26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dnl%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:nl:official%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.be/imgres?imgurl=http://flakmag.com/film/images/clones2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.flakmag.com/film/clones2.html&h=200&w=370&sz=40&hl=nl&start=150&um=1&tbnid=4L2Ryt9nEje_JM:&tbnh=66&tbnw=122&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtatooine%26start%3D144%26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dnl%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:nl:official%26sa%3DN
http://images.google.be/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fantasymundo.com/galeria/imagenes/swempire/07.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fantasymundo.com/galeria/imagen.php%3Fimagen%3D2088&h=525&w=700&sz=49&hl=nl&start=164&um=1&tbnid=lUb0f6UhqWtucM:&tbnh=105&tbnw=140&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtatooine%26start%3D162%26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dnl%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:nl:official%26sa%3DN
http://pj.piotr.free.fr/maxwell_tatooine.jpg
http://images.google.be/imgres?imgurl=http://pj.piotr.free.fr/maxwell_tatooine.jpg&imgrefurl=http://pj.piotr.free.fr/%3FN%3DD&h=545&w=1024&sz=136&hl=nl&start=239&um=1&tbnid=8C14Sf9ZM4xHsM:&tbnh=80&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtatooine%26start%3D234%26ndsp%3D18%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dnl%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:nl:official%26sa%3DN (useful?)
http://blogs.ya.com/e3expo/files/PSPres_Tatooine_Winds_of_Mustafar_03.jpg