Quarantine

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:01 am

Since there is a quarantine over Vvardenfell during the main quest, will this restrict the player from going to the rest of the provine (and will the mournhold doors remain shut, or will they be the only way into the outside world?) I mean, couldn't we make the player get a death penalty bounty untill they return to Vvardenfell, or just a normal (100) bounty and they get sent back to the nearest Vvardenfell port? I think we should be logical and choose the latter, and make mournhold (and the teleportation) the only way in and out? It would be stupid it the gates of Symachus would remain shut because then all the quests would have to be re/designed for the Nerevarine hero...

(Maybe I should of used paragraphs...)

EDIT: Maybe there would be an invisible wall like there is in Oblivion when trying to go to other provinces?

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:36 am

There will be no transportation from Vvardenfell to the mainland. Mournhold, not Almalexia, will remain in lockdown. Mind you, someone could make a mod which adds transportation or bounties but I do believe TR has no plans to do so.

Post by **Gnomey** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:58 am

Yes, you'll have to find some other way over. There will be Imperial Legion quests anyway, along with many other situations where the player needs to interact with Imperial Guards, and if the player will not be able to go through those parts due to a bounty we'll have to leave the whole Legion out of the picture.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:49 pm

Good. I like it that way anyway. I suppose the player will get sick of Dagoth Ur and all that, then at the middle of night will jump off st. olms. He will arrive at morning and the guards won't bug him because no one knows he's from the Mainland. Of course they could get suspisios since the player is drenched and they never saw him before...

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:20 pm

Will there be a connection between the door at the plaza brinsin dorm or something and almalexia at map 3?

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:02 pm

I don't think so. If I can recall I think the decision was even to disable levitation within the city, that way the player can't fly down into the fortress. As for why it will remain locked, take your pick. 1) Helseth's fear of being assasinated/overthrown was so great that he sealed the fortress. 2) The fortress is always sealed for security reasons. 3) It keeps the undesirables out. Any of those work.

EDIT 1

Dont forget that by the end of the Tribunal Main Quest, you have Barilzar's ring so you can enter the fortress whenever you want. So all you need is a mark spell, a recall spell, and the ring.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:17 am

There will be gaurds posted at the door and some dialogue to properly explain all this in-game to be sure. I think there is already dialogue in Tribunal that explains this but I'm not sure.

Personally I dont like this idea. Reminiscent of something Edgar Allen Poe would write I think. All the upper class folks, Royal family, and religious leaders all penned up in castle cut off from the outside world... Masque Of The Red Death anyone? However if we provided acces to Mournhold through the gates we'd then have to change them to allow you passage, which I think is outside of our "don't change the original game" boundary.

Its like the discussion over whether or not to provide fast-travel from Vvardenfell to the mainland. In the end we opted out of it, at least we did last time I checked anyway. Way back I think there was even a bridge from the mainland to the island.

The means of getting into the city probably wont change. However, this doesnt mean you cant just tweak something yourself if you want.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:53 am

I thought there was the Firewatch Bridge from the mainland. Isn't there?

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:22 am

Basically, we can solve the problem via 'third-party' (i.e. created by us, but optional) .esps that add fast travel and connect Mournhold, ÃƒÂ¡ la Gez's "TR_Connection" .esp, or whatever it was called.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:08 am

I stand with BC.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:56 pm

aye

And yes there was a Firewatch bridge at one point. Of course its gone now, and I think there was a dwemer bridge in map2 somewhere as well.

CleverClothe · Post by **CleverClothe** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:05 am

No, but there was a bridge to connect both Ebonhearts (sort of). Thankfully, it ran into budget issues.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:25 am

Which reminds me. Someone may want to go over the map books and stuff from BoT cuz there is one book which mentions these bridges. I forgot which book it was but if I come upon it in my modding, I'll tell ya. Mind you, one could always add dialogue somewhere that says the bridge had collapsed or was demolished because of the quarantine.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:39 am

Maybe we could make a new book on the quarantine on Vvardenfelland the affect it has on the mainland?

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:22 am

The quarantine has little effect on the mainland beyond the difficulty of trade movement to and from Vvardenfell.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:40 pm

It would have an effect to the mainland if you tried to trade from dunmereth pass to, lets say, Port Telvannis. You have to go around, and it would be dangerous to go through the inner sea, no?

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:36 pm

Actually you probably wouldn't be heading to Port Telvannis in the first place.

But if you were, the smarter option would be to head to Blacklight, take a boat there and sail to Port Telvannis by heading around the Sheogorad Isles. It is on an island after all, and you would save a lot of time and money doing it that way. You would probably do the same to reach both Firewatch and Necrom.

The Inner Sea itself wouldn't be the most logical place to sail through. There are swamps and many, many dangerious rocks through those waters. The only people who would be sailing there would be local fishermen and merchants with contracts in the big cities like Old Ebonheart or Vivec.

Post by **Gnomey** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:19 am

But it does affect things like Ebony trade, faction hierarchy, and it closes off major pilgrimage sites to pilgrims, so the mainland couldn't be totally indifferent.

I think that there should be at least one way for the player to reach the mainland without swimming of flying, though. Maybe smuggers, or maybe an ordinary shipmaster who found out that he could make a good profit by covertly bringing people from Vvardenfell to the mainland.
Anyway, this has been discussed in another thread before.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:35 pm

Gnomey's right, but if neccesary, we can do it as BC said.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:43 pm

Personally I dont see why we can't touch the original game. I got one word for you. ANVIL.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:13 pm

And the road that goes from the gold road to Fort Brena

Even if we dont put in any fast travel its beyond easy to just drop in a boat, a couple of npcs, and set them up to provide transportation. We could release it seperately even. I'd say let people do it themselves but not everyone can use the cs.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:28 pm

I say someone should make a mod which adds transport, just as long as the mod isn't connected to TR that way TR's rule of not touching the original game is left intact.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:54 am

I think that it would be stupid if there wasn't any way of getting from Vvardenfell to the Mainland apart from getting wet. Honestly I think there should be a bridge that would be heavily guarded, and the player could get through at night by sneaking though the door (patrol swaps) bribing the guards a high sum or going through some sort of quest as the first TR quest played for many people. And the bridge should be in a more logical place than from Firewatch to Tel Mora (Telvanni and Imperials don't mix). I'm suggesting that the end of the bridge be somewhere on the Island south of Ebonheart (there already is a path there that leads nowhere, and it is in the middle of the inner sea).
And we are editing Oblivion a fair bit, so I don't see why not

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:33 am

How come there's such a panic when people can tell whether you're sick or not, just by staring at you? There should be a means of transport and a person to check the player for diseases before allowing embarkation. That's all. Why make it difficult when it's that simple?

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:44 pm

I don't think corprus was the only thing that is causing the quarantine, blight diseases are also a big worry. These diseases can be found on animals, even small rats, and active transport between Vvardenfell and the mainland allows the possiblity of blighted rats stowing away on the ship, regardless of how well the player gets inspected up and down.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:01 am

Thats a good point, but if there is a heavily guarded, thin bridge, then there is little chance that a rat go though (especcially considering the sise of rats in Morrowind).

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:07 am

but vvardenfel is surrounded by seas. bridges over seas make people aware that the game scale is off.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:20 am

Damn, TF is right...

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:23 am

A bridge doesn't seem like a solution indeed, but a ship? It doesn't give away the gamespace's size and the guards couldn't miss a rat running up the ship's boarding plank.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:51 am

I remember someone made some smugglers who would take you to the mainland.

Also, there was originally made a bridge from Tel Mora to Firewatch. Who wants to guess why it was removed?

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:34 pm

Yea, there is a lady in Black Light which offers transport to Vvardenfell I think...

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:44 pm

Rats of any size are capable of carrying blight, El Scumbago, it doesn't have to be one of the big ones in the game that fight you. A normal sized blighted rat could sneak aboard the ship headed for the mainland pretty easily, be it up the plank, or up the anchor chain, or up any ropes tying the ship to the dock, or hell, even aboard cargo. So there is a good reason for there to be official restrictions on ship transport to the mainland.

However, there are other options, I think, besides that silly bridge. For one thing, smugglers (as mentioned), would not have a probem taking you to the mainland for the right price, assuming you are roleplaying that sort of unsavory character. Also, in Tribunal, there was a mage in Ebonhart capable of teleporting you to Mournhold. I see no reason why she could not do the same for any other mainland map, assuming you had a good reason. I do think that it would be important to provide several means of getting to the mainland that would accomodate several different player character types, and have as little effect on the existing gameworld as possible.

However, just leaving the player to swim is not such a great idea, in my opinion, simply because it ruins immersion a bit knowing that you can actually swim across the sea separating Vvardenfell from mainland Morrowind...

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:12 am

I see your point L_G. It was Gez who had made a plug-in with all sorts of transports iirc.

But I suppose the Mages Guild could send a member to the mainland via teleportation, if he/she was checked. The Thieves Guild could provide a service similar to that of the smugglers', while the Temple could follow the style of the Mages' Guild. The Telvanni, I'm sure they wouldn't even bother checking anyone for diseases.

But here's the big question; Vvardenfell isn't an autonomous district, its residents can't find in it all the resources they'd need, and the Imperial Legion can certainly not remain unsupplied. Same goes with Ebonheart, which is considered to be a major port.
Furthermore, how does Vodunius Nucious (or however that guy with the ring in Seyda Neen is called) plan to take "the first ship to the mainland" if there are no such routes due to the Quarantine?

What I'm trying to point out is that there are some gaps in Beth's scenario, which give us the freedom to assume that there is a limited number of vessels travelling to and from Vvardenfell.

My opinion is that there should be teleporters able to send the pc to the mainland, and as soon as the MQ is over, the sea lanes are open again.

Kovacius · Post by **Kovacius** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:48 pm

On the one hand, you have a quarantine, with Census and Excise officials and coast guard cutters to enforce it. On the other hand, you have a need for constant Legion resupply, specialty goods such as Ebony and Kwama Eggs, and occasional travel for those who require it (Tribunal adds the Legion officer Appelius Mattius (sp?) in Ebonhart who "recently arrived" from the mainland). Obviously, the Empire is attempting to limit interaction, but knows that it can't entirely do without.

There might be "unofficial" channels via the Thieves Guild or Mages Guild (for those who either have sufficient "standing" in the guild or are willing to pay generously for the privilege), as well as an "official" one for ranking Legion or Imperial Cult members with a valid reason (or at least a good excuse). It would probably be be in direct conflict with TES lore, however, to just walk up to a dock and board a boat for the mainland.

Post by **Gnomey** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:05 pm

Though as El Scumbago said, Vodinius proposed to do that exact thing. Also, the guar owner west of Ald'ruhn says that if her guar(s?) keep getting attacked she will have to move back to Tear, and there are probably a few more people who say similar things. I think that the idea of a checkup by the legion and then very strict security still goes. I guess that the smaller rats and mice either don't exist in Morrowind or are somehow kept out.

Tamika's Cellar · Post by **Tamika's Cellar** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:06 pm

With the obvious oversight from Beth on the quarantine, I believe that after the MQ Morrowind, the quarantine should be slowly lifted.

The way I see others going to the outside of MW: Maybe they got refused entry, made a spate about it and they got jailed, or that they used an unofficial entry point.

I believe supplies and very important people are allowed in but never allowed out until the quarantine is lifted.

BTW I liked the bridge that spanned the sea from the telvanni town to the Imperial City of Firewatch but there is a good point that the two factions don't get along, so the bridge removal was and remains to be a positive thing.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:09 am

They let that Apelles Matius guy in for Tribunal in any case so I guess that makes sense.

Besides Beth did let you leave Vvardenfell for Solsthiem.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:48 am

Tyrion wrote:Besides Beth did let you leave Vvardenfell for Solsthiem.

No they didn't, that Khajiit in Khuul did

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:03 am

Tyrion wrote: Besides Beth did let you leave Vvardenfell for Solsthiem.

*Slaps his head*

Of course!

EDIT: Scummy got in just before me.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:27 pm

You ould also waterwalk to vvardenfell and vice versa. However the option of taking the boat was more recommended.