Jedak's Music

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:26 am

Its meant not to pick up. I mean, Vvardenfell is very different to Goldmoor.
I just got an Idea or two from it...

Can you answer my question about the battle track?

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:05 pm

Um... what question was that?

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:01 pm

Jedak wrote:Awesomeness

Dude. Still is perfect. Maybe a little quiet, but perfect otherwise.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:31 am

Jedak wrote:I am composing a Battle track, and I seem to be experiencing writers block. It is already 1.10, do ya think I can wrap it up? I mean, battles ussually don't take more than a minute.

That the question.

Thanks Haplo

If Macar agrees with you than I'd be more than happy if we'd use it

Today is a happy day for TR!...
With all the competition winning and such

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:18 pm

Oh, yeah, that's plenty. Bettle tracks dont need to be much over 1 minute. I cant wait to hear it.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:51 am

OK, here it is:

The Rush. I kept in mind that it would have to be used for cyrodiil too.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:47 pm

Sounds good- a lot like the music in the game. I have a problem with the cymbols- I dont think it's the right one to use- sounds like a drumset- especialy with the bass drum.

Of course- I invision HF combat music as much more percussive and exciting, but there's no such thing as HF combat music...

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:09 am

Since HF will be in a different worldspace, Isn't it possible to script the music to play in HF only?
Its probubly a silly question, but hey

I can't get a better cymbol sound, but if I muck aroud with GPO for a bit I might...
If its going to be used then I'll try my best with the cymbol, but currently I am lazy.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:25 pm

Since HF will be in a different worldspace, Isn't it possible to script the music to play in HF only?

Unfortunately not. Scripting all other music is doable. But when you enter combat the game is hardwired to play a random selection from the combat music folder.

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:26 pm

Do you use a sample library, or just the synth sounds that come with whatever program you're using? Or do you record live? (What program DO you use?)

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:13 am

He uses Sibelius with the GPO plugin. (Garritin Personal Orchestra)

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:53 am

Nedic Roads! This is an explore for maybe Goldmoor Track. This is a mixture of Macar and my styles. I have used themes and ideas from Macar's Nedic Voices and my The Path Most Trudged. I also sneaked in a bit from my themetune (hehe).
In this post is the listening track. If we make a soundtrack dowloadable aside of the mod itself this would be for that. In the next post is the version for the game.

Enjoy!

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:56 am

Orix · Post by **Orix** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:32 am

(is still lurking)

Hmm, not bad Jedak. There are 2 things that bother me about your track.
The first is the instrumentation, it sounds way too synthy, is there any way you could transfer your musical data to cubase? Some instruments don't sound fit for Hammerfell, like the trumpets and whistles. Wind instruments, like the Duduk might work better if you can get the samples of those.
Another problem is the track's cohesiveness, most of the time which is fairly good most of the time, but sometimes it just loses it, such as around 2:03, the track completely changes, and people will cringe at that when listening to it.

Otherwise, its a pretty good piece, I like you use of Macar's Nedic theme, just needs a little more work.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:49 am

Whistles?! Whistles!?! WHISTLES!!!!
Don't you know a flute in its higher register when you hear it?...
*Sigh*

Synthy?! Synthy!?! SYNTHY!!!!
I have GPO, the sounds are so good that your ears can't understand its greatness and make you think its synthy!...
*Sigh*

Oh, hey, I'm back! Thanks for your reply Orix, good to see your still alive.
I was thinking of making another version that stops at around 2:00. Since I'm a trumpet player and all computer make trumpet sounds are crap, and I know what a trumpet can do, I tend to use them for things that most wouldn't understand since I know how it could sound. But since they will never be recorded, I guess your right...

I can put the flute down the octave which will lower the contrast, but that was what I was aiming for.
Its hard to mix Macar's and my styles, they're so different

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:24 pm

Well actualy, having listented to it on my samples as well as yours (it's odd to say this) I think the strings from Kontakt sound beter- at least in this peice. These sound too tinny somehow, not warm enough. The woodwinds sound better than Kontak's but could you play it with Kontakt strings? Also I agree with your idea about putting the flute down an octive, I think up in that range they are a little uncharacteristic for videogame music. Also- I'd recomend removing all the Glisades, especialy on brass they just sound "drunk". I think you should replace them and the chromatic downward motion with simple leaps and see if it sounds better.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:03 am

With gpo I don't think that you can really get kontakt with the plugin. Surprisingly, I think that the strings are one of the bigger improvements. The funny thing is that when you have a solo instrument, GPO is exellent! But for some reason ensambles sound a bit wonky...

If you had GPO then you'd see the difference, its just that I'm still not used to writing for those sounds and also I'm not too good yet at tweaking GPO.

I will be making a few changes to NR soon...

-TheBeast- · Post by **-TheBeast-** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:27 pm

GPO is good for solos, as you said, Jedak, and its ensembles are off. Sometimes if you layer the string keyswitches over one another you can get a more lush sound - i.e. Violins 1 lush over Violins 2 - then tone down the volume a bit for a nice thick, un-synthed sound. Some extra tweaking will help too - make sure not too flood GPO with too much reverb, though, being a GPO user also (I was for about a year and a half before I got EWQLSO) I know that reverb is one of the most effective ways to make the GPO Strings sound unsynth'd.... however, this makes all the other instruments sound way too verby!

Just toy around with the settings a little bit

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:51 am

Hey Evan, since you're an experienced user of GPO I'll ask some questions:
Is there anyway of getting a solo string or a lush string sound that has pizz? And if not, how can you change the sound so middleway though a piece it can switch to a string pizz sound then back?

Sometimes I cannot get the according sound I want, and then when I change the playback (aka Modern orch. to Romantic orch.) other sounds are not there. I just want your opinion on what is the most diverse and all round one if there is one.

I have a problem with the basses always being drowned out by the higher instruments, and ussually solve this with the mixer by increasing the volume of the softer instruments but I was wondering if there is another way to do it.

Thank you for your time if you can answear my queries.

-TheBeast- · Post by **-TheBeast-** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:20 am

Jedak,

I don't think you can have a solo pizz. For that, I always use EWQL.

For changing the bow designation of the string mid-composition, use a patch (channel) change. In finale you can set the channel to switch by using a patch. So, load your original arco strings into say, channel 1, and then load your pizz. sample into channel 2. Use a patch to switch the instrument assigned to channel 1 to use channel 2. This will make the playback be whatever is in that channel - in this case, pizz. Same works for returning to your arco. You can also use the keyswitch samples. They should allow you to just type in the command "pizz." and automatically switch. That works in finale, I'm not too sure about Sibeli-gay, though :p

For the basses, go into your Kontakt player, and select the bass sample. Turn the volume up a bit on that (maybe pan to the right a bit for a more realistic sound). Then go into the higher instruments and turn them down a bit. You can also bring the WAV or mp3 into a sequencer and give it a bass boost.

As for the modern/romantic orch, I don't know if those are GPO templates orc not, but I've never used them. Use the patch switch method that I mentioned above to navigate between samples easily.

Hope that helped. Ask me if you need me to clear anything up!

- Evan

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:21 am

FinaleFinaleFinaleFinaleFinaleFinaleFinaleFinale

Not trying to send any subliminal messages or anything.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:09 am

Jedak really loudly and clearly wrote: SIBELIUS SIBELIUS SIBELIUS SIBELIUS SIBLELIUS SIBELIUS SIBELIUS SIBELIUS SIBELIUS SIBLELIUS SIBELIUS SIBELIUS SIBELIUS SIBELIUS SIBLELIUS SIBELIUS SIBELIUS SIBELIUS SIBELIUS SIBLELIUS SIBELIUS SIBELIUS SIBELIUS SIBELIUS SIBLELIUS

Not trying to send superliminal messages or anything

Oh, and thank you Evan. If I have anymore problems I will ask. And as you said, Sibelius doesn't work the same way as FinaCRAPle

Orix · Post by **Orix** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:56 am

Cubase>all

EDIT BY HAPLO - Actually Cubase cannot write music (like a notepad program), so it therefore sucks by default compared to music writing programs. And other programs (like Finale and Sibelius) are ONLY for writing music, so obviously Cubase will beat them out. They're for two different types of work, really.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:00 am

My thread, me say no more spam! (btw cubase sucks)
Alright, no more spam from now on, OK?

SMITE TEH SPAM!

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:00 am

as for your problems- what I would suggest is writing differently- unless GPO is different than kontakt- the basses are really muted and hard to hear but the cellos are extreamly bright. Instead of fighting this I have embraced it: I keep in mind that the basses and violas are much darker so I have them doubled by other instrumets accordingly or playing togther.

Gesshoku · Post by **Gesshoku** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:18 am

(btw cubase sucks)

and

Actually Cubase cannot write music

Sadly you both are incorrect. First of all I want to say I use Cubase, and use it well for composing and recording work.

And perhaps all of you have failed to remember this song:
http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/files/dragonfly-tamriel-theme-004.mp3

Which is still listed as the Tamriel Theme. Should we not give Dragonfly the glory he deserve by composing that song by only, soley, single handedly, using Cubase.

So now that I've said that and gotten all that out of the way, let's not bash programs we know nothing about or do not know how to use. Just because they are way advanced and hard, does not in anyway mean they suck mmkay?

Also if you get a chance compare the quality of Dragonfly's file to some done with intstrument packs for Sibelius. You will crap yourself at the difference in sound.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:23 am

Okay- I'm going to step in as Music mod here.

No more bitching about programs. I'm serious.

back to work

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:26 am

Thats what I said!

Why does no one listen to me

I'll find some spare time for NR soon.

Gesshoku · Post by **Gesshoku** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:53 am

lol..this'll be my last spam on your thread, I promise!

I've been gone for 4 months...I had to put my long awaited bitch in somewhere

Edit:
deleted

Edit2:

Edit3:
you happy now?

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:57 am

1: Use smiley when crying
2: Currently theres a reviewfest, you can put your bitch in that. (I think theviking's in charge)

EDIT: Yes, now SMITE TEH SPAM!
Oh yeah, update in a moment

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:50 am

UPDATE on NR:

(This time not crazy

)

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:15 pm

sounding even better.

A few comments. First of all, I still think the glisades sound wonky. Second; the solo instrument at :31 and 1:41 (sounds like a trumpet to my ear) I think you should try giving the part to another instrument, if it is a trumpet, try giving it to the horn or if I'm wrong and it's a horn, try giving it to basoon or something. Also (and I'm being nitpicky here because it's going so well) at 2:05 there is a low brass instrument that sounds a little "farty" maybe if some low strings double it it will soften a little. Of course- if you try that and it sounds bad, just ignore me.

Otherwize- this is a great track and I'm just about ready to add it.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:45 am

I can't chenge the glissades, sorry.

I have mucked around with GPO to make some of the brass sound more like each other. There is no trumpet at all in the version above. The previous version only had the tumpet near the end, where there is now an oboe. I have recently learnt not to trust others ears

At :31 its a trombone, with to entries strait after of a horn then upper tuba, a trumpet cant slide that far. (well, I can, but I'm abnormally good at bending pitches on my instrument

) It is a horn at 1:41, the middle register of a horn and the higher middle register of a trombone sound strangly similar in both RL and GPO. Since both are backed up by strings, even more so. I don't know how you could have mixed them up with a trumpet, trumpets would almost definately play both an octave higher. And plus, the trumpet sound in GPO sucks -- have a listen at the previous version of NR 2 at the solo at about 2:10 off the top of my head. Eurgh! Then again all artifitial trumpet sound samples in the world sound bad to me

I'll see if I can get rid of the farts -- the brass comes from a register not played at that moment, so I'll try to make them fall from the melody then rise again, as they do

Thanks Macar!

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:42 am

Sorry it took so long: I have made the change in that little bit.

Now I am sorry to inform that I will be a little inactive with writing music for TR because of a little RL project I am about to start.
I promise that I will attempt to write something for us after I've finished the first movement

Small Porgies · Post by **Small Porgies** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:01 am

I really like it, especially loving the strings at the beginning and about 1:15. I do think that the flute/piccolo at 0:41 should sound a little more slurred in the grace note arpeggio which bring it in... at the moment it almost sounds staccato to me. I don't the farty sounds are too bad... but I agree with Macar that some low strings with it would help. Great piece!

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:33 am

Thanks for the comments

Small Porgies wrote: I don't the farty sounds are too bad...

I don't understand at all

It would be great if you could have a look at any other pieces in this thread

Its a bit of a jumble-but I'm sure you'll manage.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:48 am

I'm certain that he meant that he didnt think that the brass sounded too bad. or farty- as I so maturely put it.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:01 am

Oh, OK

Small Porgies · Post by **Small Porgies** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:36 am

yeah, thats what i meant

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:21 am

Great news!

Too my great surprise, I recieved Sibelius 5 and Garritan Jazz & Big Band for Christmas and am installing it now!

Even if GPO and GJBB don't work together I can do seperate recordings and merge them in Audacity (how do you do that, anyway?).