Goldmoor LC

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:55 am

Tatooine would restrict us within the limits of typical eastern architecture, which we're quite familiar with already.

I think a couple of domes wouldn't hurt, especially when it comes to an inn. Vanilla inns where fancier than the rest of their set's buildings, so it's safe to do it.

About the use of the LC's all over HF; a simple recolor will do the job later, for now we can have a white-y surface, just more cracked and worn than that of the MCs. I don't think recoloring a texture is a big deal.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:24 pm

not at all, in fact its the fastest way to change the model.

Andvary · Post by **Andvary** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:45 am

OK, I'm not freaking out, Elfane. Minor disagreements are a natural part of any team design work. It's only that I need some negative feedback from the beginning, there's no need to wait till something snaps. I wasn't getting much in terms of requests to correct something, so I naturally assumed it was fine the way I made it. If you aren't happy about something, let's discuss it before it gets used elsewhere. Like with those window frames, if you guys told me that when I've posted the first model, it wouldn't have been such a big deal. I did like your initial drawings very much. I don't know when and why you folks decided to depart from that concept, as it was before I joined the team, but I started with El Scumbago's designs, which are quite a bit different from yours. Also note that most additional details were added at request.

Other things:
1. The grate was removed.
2. Windows are being redone. I've decided to move them apart somewhat.
3. Shutters will be made to conform the window model, of course. When I was referring to Oblivion's models, I meant to discuss technical details of how our shutters should be done (jagged surface with a texture vs lifelike shutter made of individual planks).
4. I have no special feelings toward domes either. An inn could probably afford that, but I myself am not quite sure whether it looks right with that dome on.
5. The stairs were done like that because the textual description of the LC3 drawing called for a wooden ladder. I don't think it's possible to make a playable ladder in Oblivion, so I went for the stairs. I can easily make it integral with the building, no big deal. See the screenshot below, is it what you were thinking of? I can add simple shabby wooden railing if need be.

To NexUmMonastica:
I have corrected several elements as per your suggestions. Redone or simplified. Check these out, is that what you meant?
http://www.inogda.net/andvary/temp/Tamriel_Rebuilt/LC_Elements_01_3DS.rar
Anything else you can think of?

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:38 am

You are absolutely correct Advary, and I apologize for not mentioning the windows issue earlier. But I do hope you kept that wooden staircase in your HDD. The new staircase looks nice though.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:50 pm

that is so much better.
Normals are certainly the biggest pain in the ass when it comes to modeling: but your models look fairly easy to work with once youve finished the concept (which looks like soon by the progress you've made)

I'm really working hard to figure out what to do with the normals on the big arch: but here's what i have so far

Andvary · Post by **Andvary** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:30 am

Hmm, I don't think that's gonna work. I'm not too familiar with this stuff though. I thought of another way. How about fixing normals for larger planes and screwing smaller planes altogether?
Like this:
http://www.inogda.net/andvary/temp/Tamriel_Rebuilt/LC_Elements_Working2_3DS.rar
It doesn't look too bad. I'm not sure though how it is going to look with texture and maps applied.

Otherwise I can only suggest splitting conflicting normals for all shared vertices and fixing them manually, which sounds like too much work... Do you know of any other way?

Elfane · Post by **Elfane** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:29 am

About stairs, I do like the new one very nice. And a shabby wooden railing would work for me. But then I mean shabby, no straight lines. Gnarled, old, dry wood.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:41 am

the only way i ever found was to detatch all window and door meshes from the main wall. put the chamfers in the window (or boolean) mesh and leave the walls a single plane surface with a hole in it. sometimes it looks wierd but textures can fix that 99% of the time.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:49 pm

um, how goes this? andvary has not been online for a month but im hoping that this mesage will be seen.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:05 pm

I'll e-mail him

Andvary · Post by **Andvary** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:36 pm

Sorry, folks.
My situation has taken a rather bad spin. Maybe later. Feel free to salvage whatever seems useable, all links will stay active. Sorry again, it's beyond my control.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:38 pm

too bad

if you have anything that you havent uploaded yet please upload it. the previous wips were good, im sure someone else can finish them.

hope your real life clears up for the better

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:09 am

Ok, let's sum up the situation we have. The LC 1 to 4 meshes seem to be ready. The only one thing, that makes me still write about them is that whole blabla about window frames and the wooden staircase. We have the version with the window frames and the wooden staircase. So, what about that? You want me to do that boring job and give back the original design or do we want to use Andvar's ideas?

Also, I would like hear some ideas or even get some textures

I've those coloured LC concepts that I found in Elfane's and El Scum's CA threads, but I still dunno what I should look for when I will do a texture search...

Post by **Haplo** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:38 am

To be honest I'd say add a shutter to the window, whether it's wooden or made of cloth, it doesn't matter. Unless you want them to be modular for the LC?

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:26 am

Let me have a fast look... A shutter would be a great modular piece. I can try to create something using MC modular meshes and textures and making them look more worn out or cheap.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:57 pm

So, it's texture time. Got a load to do, but this time I promise I'll be quick. Thanks for your work Advary, you did really good.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:19 am

[url=http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/LCwithtexture02.jpg][img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/th_LCwithtexture02.jpg[/img][/url]
Just a WIP. I still remember Lady N's and PoHa's sugestions and ideas given on IRC, so I'll be working on them

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:20 am

That looks incredible so far! On the MC1 interiors, the texture seems to be wrong. That is, the GMCityMix1 or whatever it was wouldn't work. It showed up white in nifskope.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:24 am

Thanks. I had no problems with the MC1, as far as I know, Lady N also didn't had any. I'll upload a new pack with all MC1 and MC2 soon.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:07 pm

[url=http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/LCplastersandcuttingWIP01.jpg][img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/th_LCplastersandcuttingWIP01.jpg[/img][/url]
This is what we can achievie by cutting the main block into four pieces and using 3 different plasters on it

So, do you like it?

theviking · Post by **theviking** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:14 pm

So cool, Aro! But I see that the crack in the plaster also is visible on the wall behind it, that looks a little weird. For the rest it looks really good.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:00 pm

Thank you theviking. Hmmm...
[url=http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/LCsketch01.jpg][img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/th_LCsketch01.jpg[/img][/url]
Now it is cut along the red planes, if I also use that green one and create few more plasters I can propably get something satisfying

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:23 pm

very, very nice. the stones underneath should be bricks imho, and the plaster should be broken with bricks in more places. however, these are all minor details in my mind

it looks great. one thing that bothers me more is the stretching on the top part of the bottom frame. since that will often be all that is visible from the ground it would be nice to have no stretching there.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:17 pm

LC WIPz. NIF, OBJ, BMP...

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:39 pm

thanks much!

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:36 am

aro101 wrote:LC WIPz. NIF, OBJ, BMP...

JPEG?...

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:00 am

jpeg sux. For textures it sucks. It's good to have a BMP WIP because it doesn't loose quality

Maybe it is pedantic but this is how I work on texs.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:52 pm

No, I meant JPEG as in screenshot.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:08 am

I didn't have any new improvements. It's hard to make some while staying with a pack of friends away in the mountains without any kind of computers. I uploaded the wipz by Lady N's request

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:58 pm

Sorry for the double post, but I got confused about some major LC texturing shit.
[url=http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/LCstuff01.jpg][img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/th_LCstuff01.jpg[/img][/url]
What materials do we want for domes? Some kind of rusty steel, wood, or the same as the walls? The same question for the roof... stone, wood or what?

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:30 pm

Stucco!

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:13 pm

i would go with stocoe (same as the walls) but with metal or wood drames showing through (instead of stone like the walls).

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:03 pm

I tried with wood showing through. The effects don't satisfy me

Stucco, stucco, stucco... Somehow, I can't get used to that english word.

What really stops the progress of this set is my mind that can't decide which way to go to get the look that we want for this buildings. Should I remake textures, cut the meshes, try unwrap uvw or what, I just can't decide what is the best way

I hope it will change fast, so I can get concentrated on achieving the target.
[url=http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/LC/LC_02.jpg][img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/LC/th_LC_02.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/LC/LC_01.jpg][img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/LC/th_LC_01.jpg[/img][/url]

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:11 pm

Part of the problem is that the doors and windows don't match the size of the walls. There is far too much empty space. The meshes themselves need to be designed with more detail, such as horizontal ledges, ect. The design of this set makes it very hard to texture effectively. The Hlaalu set managed to pull off the right look.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:16 pm

the wood does look a bit acward... and i agree with morden

here is what i think we should do with this set. fix it up some, make good UV maps, and export into a fully working nif for texturing. Texturing can be messed with and perfected by others so that you, aro, have more time to work on something else. the colaborative effort of different people could also produce a good result.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:38 pm

Yes, yes, Morden, you're 100 percent right.

I tought these meshes were finished, but now that you mentioned those windows and doors, I compared that mesh with the concept. Some changes are needed. I will give those meshes a deeper review first.

The design of this set makes it very hard to texture effectively

I noticed that too, and some ledges would really make it a lot easier. Should I add any? And yes, that Hlaalu set has just the right look, it didn't use any broken plasters with visible stones though

Heh, Lady N, the quality and design of the textures isn't exactly what takes my time and bothers my head atm. What I got to do is decide which way to go with the uvw mapping and mesh cutting. When I mentioned remaking textures I was thinking about changing the size(square or rectangle). But of course I have nothing against going the way you suggest after I get past those issues.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:34 pm

i was just trying to make your job easier

if you think you can do this then im fine with you doing this. i think ledges are fine. maybe not compleatly hlaalu though

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:21 pm

Well, to begin with, these meshes lack the planks that stand out of the walls, still have those drain holes and stuff, the windows still have frames that stand out of the wall instead of being curved into it... That's what I can think of now.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:54 am

I don't know if I understand you right but... Drain holes and those frames don't change the fact (it just has nothing to do with this) that it is still a one big block that has to be textured as one piece or cutted pieces that fit each other exactly with the mesh and the textures. The design that we want to get makes it even more difficult. A hard task it is.

@ Lady N. Help is always welcome... It's not that I want to do it all by myself. It's just an aspect that I need to do by myself with the situation we currently have. If you want to help me, then let's do it with developing a design that is easier for texturing

That's what I really need.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:32 pm

Sorry sorry sorry for the delay. I've been busy, I've been frustrated, tired with modelling and some RL issues.

I made a hard decision. We're not going to use Andvary's meshes. I can make a new LC faster than fixing the old meshes and making them nice textureable. I know it's a pity, but I had to... I used that chance to come back to the roots of our LC style. That's a hard comeback to the concepts. I consulted already few details with Elfane. Take a look at the two LCs that are almost already made:
[url=http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/LC/LCnew05b.jpg][img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/LC/th_LCnew05b.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/LC/LCnew05.jpg][img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/LC/th_LCnew05.jpg[/img][/url]

I'm working on the meshes and I have made a pre uv mapped LC version, so that Lady N can work on the textures simultaneously. So the work is now divided between me and her.
What needs to be done is finishing these two, recreating the LCS 1,2,4 and make about 2 tower variations. We don't need more. What can be added, are some modulars for this set.

Warning, please be understanding to me