Brainstorm, think of a cave.

[theviking]

Hi, we are going to put up the wilderness claims for map3 and I thought of some original claims. But, you guessed it, caves are not my strong point. So, can you come up with an original cave description? Please make sure the description is doable (so don't do something like this: OMG, Those root caves from oblvion are teh bomb! please make them for morrowind.) and that it is lore-correct. (So don't place an imperial fort in a cave) For the rest, the more original, the better.
I'll kick off with this description: A hidden slave market with a lot of cages and a separate 'waiting room'.

[Jedak]

How about a cave that goes strait down, then ends in a huge cavern with loads of ramps and scaffolding and such (could be a mine -- I'd love to see a huge cavern with loads of man-made stuff

[Nanu]

Bloat. Lots of bloat. Go find Andres, I remember putting up a bunch of claims like this a while back. Andres rocks at caves. Andres really rocks at bloat caves, and there are none on Vvardenfell, so they have to come from somewhere. Plus, it's an unused mesh; just be careful about not allowing the player to look directly up at it, as the mesh isn't formed entirely.

Caves with very small tombs or Daedric shrines at the end are always fun as well. Lots of waterfalls, lava, Telvanni roots, man-made walkways, ravines, extensive bandit hideouts, skooma dens, (il)legal slave markets, or sheer vertical drops are entertaining and fun to explore. Small villages inside of a cave are fine too, provided the location of the cave makes sense.

If we do Kwama egg mines, then lets make some of them worth exploring. I NEVER went into one on Vvardenfell because there wasn't EVER anything of any use in them. If we did put that village that the miners lived in inside of the mines along with little shops and such (self-sustaining mines existed during the Depression-1970s rural America, BTW) players might actually want to explore our handiwork.

Oh, and vampires. Lots of vampires.

And yes, all of that is lore-friendly. Ask me if you don't believe.

[Zalzidrax]

Back in the day, Nairb, Stalker, Sload, some other people and I were tossing around an idea for a nice big underground multipart cave using some of the entrances near Meralag and Darnim watch, North of Almalexia. The general idea was to have a place that you could explore in a similar way to exterior places, and also provide a possibly more convenient way to bypass on foot the mountains that divide the inland from the coast.

There were quite a lot of ideas of what to put in it: an underground lake, a mushroom forest, a connection to the unenterable dwemer ruin in the area, some goblins that had escaped from the ones being brought to Mournhold, and probably a whole lot of other things that I don't remember anymore.

I would certainly still be interested in doing this, and maybe if more people want to help out, each person could do a separate area and link them together to form a larger complex.

[Hemitheon]

how bout a Moria kinda place?

[CleverClothe]

Caves that can also be used as short-cuts is a nice idea.

[Nomadic1]

I remember the cave complex idea. It was fantastic, just a pity it was never done.

What about an underground river / waterway which connects to the lower levels of a Dwemer ruin (secretly)? The underground river could be used by people of two different villages to reach each other quickly.

[Hemitheon]

1. working of Nomadic's idea, a cave near a tiny town with a quest given by a necromancer to poison the water supply. If you poison it, the town becomes filled with undead zombies.

2. or an abandoned Dwemer mine.

3. I don't know if this is lore-correct, but what about a cave with a daedric area in which resides a seer, maybe a chosen of Hermaeus Mora or Sheogorath.

4. cave/dwelling of a serial killer

5. another Ald Daedroth fight-to-the-death game only this time you can't leave and the enemies are stronger.

6. a place famous for meditating.

7. a cave where a saint or god was born.

8. dwemer energy plant.

9. mass grave, maybe from a battle or House War.

[presh]

1. Skooma production cave

2. Deeply hidden dumping site for sixth house stuff.

3. Hidden ancestral shrine where a local family venerate their ancestors instead of committing them to the ghost fence.

[theviking]

Wow, these are all great ideas and I'm sure they will be used. I especcialy like the underground complex idea and I'm sure that we can use that somewhere on map3. (maybe in the depopulated areas in the east of the map) So keep them coming!

[Harke the Apostle]

I). An underground theatre.

II). A rich excentric's "Institute For The Spoken Word".

The Institute stimulates the culture of the spoken word, and consists of a small library filled with orations, poetry and the odd closet play. There is also a lecture theatre where readings and orations can be given to a small circle of amateurs. It has a foyer where members can get a drink. There is also a doorman. Entry is members/invitation only. Why did the excentric choose this location? Acoustics.

III). A secret Blade underground alchemy lab. Zombies optional.

IV). A large cave where a lonely vampire necromancer has tried to recreate the Morrowind countryside.

Cattle and non-hostile skeletons walk through a cavern that has a small farmhouse. The cavern floor is planted with cave plants and mushrooms, and there is even a field, though he can only grow violet coprinus there. The vampire necromancer lives inside the farmhouse.

V). Fire And Ice

A cave that is like a grotto except with lots of lava. (obviously the caverns would have to be high enough for the PC to move over the lava). Fire Atronachs attack you from ledges when you move into the larger parts of the cave. At the back of the cave there is a daedric door (that is locked). After you unlock the door (switch on a ledge behind Fire Atronachs?) Forst Atronachs from a similar cave, except with ice, move out of the door. The Fire and Frost Atronachs attack each other, and you can go into the ice cave where there is also an exit.

VI). A luxury thieves/robbers hideout like in the novel "The Golden Ass" (No, not that kind of ass) by Apuleius.

The hideout consists of a series of cave rooms, decorated like a mansion, with the spoils of robbery. The cave should have one entrance near a road (but should be hidden from it). It should also have a secret outdoor garden (in a hidden valley) that is only accesible (barring levitation etc.) from a door inside the hideout.

VII). Grotto with a small community of dreughers.

A Grotto with a cavern with a few cave dwellings in it where dreughers (people who make armor etc. from dreugs) live. Has to open into a body of water where dreughs live, of course.

VIII). Grotta Azzurra (I mean a magnificently lit blue grotto by the sea).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Grotto
If you can pull it off with the lights in the CS.

[EdAptra]

i love harkes idea for having a blue grotto style cave. Whilst there have have been many water filled caves, one based on the blue grotto would look good, perhaps with an abundance of clams with pearls as well?? Another thing ive never seen before in a cave would be one filled with musical instruments, perhaps left behind from a travelling band or something, so it sorta looks like a "music studio" when you go in if you know what i mean..

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Also, don't be shy with the scripting ideas. If we're doing this kind of thing, where we build up a database of ideas for ints, I see no need to not mention any cool scripts that could be used in that int. If the interiorers aren't confident with scripts, but the idea is feasible, it could always be handed over to a quester/scripter to be finished off, as long as the interiorer placed the relevant activators..

TR currently doesn't hvae much in the way of cool scripted stuff in ints, and while it's best not to overdo such things, it does add a nice touch, like the "Hall of Machines" Lud did (and I polished up a bit for one of my quests) It was a really great idea, where the player found five cranks (in a Dwemer ruin) in front of them, and had to guess which one would open the door, and which would send a Centurion after them.

I'd like to see more of that stuff in the occasional ruin, just to add some spice. Unfortunately I don't have any ideas to contribute myself right now, but it's something to bear in mind.

Anyway, I ramble. Please continue.

[Harke the Apostle]

IX). Natural thermal baths

Though judicious use of lights and steam maybe there can be a cave with a lake filled with hot water. The locals come to bathe there. There would be no plants or animals (or clutter) in the water because it would be too hot. Perhaps the thermal baths could have gotten some (stonghold or daedric) steps in the past so the bathes could enter a little easier. Perhaps a keeper would also live in the cave, in an office that is a bit like the offices in that flying rock above Vivec.
A sign with a schedule could be hung near the entrance door.
Naturally, the path to this cave should be safe and well trodden, and the cave should be near a village.

X). Lair of a pseudovampire

A pseudovampire is an enchanter who is a robber, who uses enchanted items to have the same advantages as vampires(vampiric ring etc.), and also to make it look like a vampire did his crimes.

XI). Sadism Dungeon

A cave with a Redguard shackled against a wall like that guy in the sewers in Tribunal. Next to him is a table with a quill and candle and some other obvious instruments of (non-dangerous) torture, and there are a few menacing looking people around. If you try to talk to the Redguard he’ll send you away. If you kill the people and/or free the Redguard, he’ll be very angry, because he paid them to treat him that way.

XII). Poets Cave

A cave where several poets live. Naturally they are very poor, their most prized possessions being a few poetry books.

XIII). Cave of vampiric retribution

A former vampire lair with vampire skeletons shackled against the wall, in sight of a bottle of blood, but just out of reach of it.

XIV). Toilet

If your toilet is like mine, it’s fairly clean and it has a flooded elbow with water in it at the bottom. Behind the elbow it’s very dirty, and rats live there.
Now imaging this principle applied to a cave, you have a downward sloping, fairly pleasant cavern that dips into the water. When you reach the point cavern slopes upward again you see a whole lot of rubbish on the flooded cavern floor. As you swim upwards, you see lots of crates and barrels floating at the water’s surface. When you break the surface you are immediately attacked by swarms/hordes of vermin (rats, parastylos?). Above the water on the ledges are vermin nests and more clutter.

XV). Wizards Guild

A bunch of third rate magic users, who think they can compete with the Mages Guild, and have decorated their former smugglers cave with schlock items to make it look more interesting. (not meant to be a faction, although NPCs would be inimical towards Mages Guild members).

XVI). Bat-Cave

At the end of a regular cave is a Daedric door. Enter it and you find yourself in a strange upside-down Daedric shrine filled with Daedric bats. Levitation isn’t possible there. (At the entrance the ‘floor’, the shrine’s ceiling, must still consist of the same kind of cave pieces as the cell you just left). You fight or sneak your way through until you end up in a huge upside-down Daedric hall (think Bal Ur), with a statue of Sheogorath hanging from the ceiling. There you find some unique “eat meâ€Â￾ item. If you use it you are teleported to the ‘right’ side up version of the interior where you are scripted in to have constant effect Nighteye and Levitation (like Daedric Bats would have). You can now slaughter the bats more effectively, and collect any Daedric items that were hidden on ledges.
When you leave the second hall for the original cave, the effects stop.
If you enter the shrine again, it’s back to normal (upside down shrine), and you’ve eaten the ‘eat me’ item already.

[El Scumbago]

Most of these ideas are totally great. In addition, I think we're in some serious need of vampy caves. I may be wrong of course, but I'm under the impression we neglected this kind of dungeon in map1.

1. Ashlander burial caves. I had a shitload of fun making one for map1. It gives you all you need to make a creepy and choky atmosphere with the fog and green lighting and mummies. This sort of caves should be very rare (no more than 1 per map), because they're very large and the ashlanders are few, but a couple of small ones per map would be acceptable I suppose.

2. Hermit caves. Again, the amount of such caves should be extremely small, but they're making lots of sense when placed in isolated areas.

3. Archaeological caves. Stupid name, couldn't think of something better, but you get the picture. The Archaeological Society investigates underground spaces in search of hidden dwemer stuff and the like. Imagine situations where idiot scholars hire workers to search for Falmer relics in the most impossible places, like southeastern Morrowind and such.

4. Naked Nord caves. Need I describe it?!

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

[gro-Dhal]

A really vibrant underground ecosystem, with glowing fungi everywhere (maybe larger than normal?).

A great underground lake, maybe with a ruined subterranean village behind it (there's a place in France I think where the whole community would go and hide underground when trouble came calling).

An underground shipwreck with a really bizarre explanation for its presence would be fun.

[EdAptra]

An underground shipwreck with a really bizarre explanation for its presence would be fun.

i was actually thinking about something like this, perhaps the cave is situaited on on an old lake or something that dried up years ago and earth has built up around it. something that would be good though, you enter a cave, just a normal plain one, you go round the corner and who do you run into?? a dark elf by the name of jiub....

[Andres Indoril]

EdAptra, sorry, but Jiub already has a rock band
(And he is used in too many mods.)

[Magelord648]

I just finished a mine for map two which I was pretty proud of. It was a big chamber (it didn't even need to go down much thanks to Kebra's magnificent exterior work.) full of scaffolding to reach the minerals, ladders and even a crane. I think there should be lots of things like that.

I also like caves with Ruins of some sort in them. Things always end up underground one way or another.

Big under ground lakes are nice as well. The door in the exterior is partly submerged and inside the cave you can see water pouring in from under the door. You follow the fast flowing water to a huge drop with a magnificent waterfall. At the bottom there is a lake with some bandits or smugglers or similar camping on the bank and a network of ladders to get back to the top of the cave. These are time consuming but beautiful to behold.

EDIT: I just had another idea. Pearl mines. A coastal cave with lots of knee deep pools filled with kollops. Workers stand in the water looking for pearls. Some guards at the entrance and near a few pools and a small improvised office chamber for the person in charge. I'd say this would go well near a shack town which would supply a small workforce to work in the cave. Obviously this would probably be a very rare if not unique cave but I think it'd be cool. If we go through with it I would very much like to make it.

[Harke the Apostle]

XI). Sadism Dungeon

I was counting the hours 'till you came up with that one, Harke.

I am pretty predictable, aren't I?

XVI). Bat-Cave

Awesome. I would love this one. Not sure how feasible it would be to script removal of enemies/loot already taken between the two 'versions', but the idea is very doable, and very cool.

If I tried to make this myself, I'd place the loot 'invisibly' in places that you can't reach by jumping or telekinesis. I wouldn't bother trying to link the body count between the two cells.

[Vrenir]

A seculded cave somewhere in the mountains of Map 4 or 5 that houses a monastic cult centered on an Argonian mystic. It would be in-hiding both for aesetic reasons and because the leader is a target of discrimination in the rest of the province.

[Harke the Apostle]

XVII).

A dry cave with urns/vases (some broken) filled with magic scrolls. (Think of the Dead Sea scrolls).

Oh, and vampires. Lots of vampires.

IMHO, the vamps need a twist of some kind.

[Jedak]

Nice brainstorm coming along! I can't remember a quarter of the posts!

Good job guys

[Harke the Apostle]

XVIII). A cave with a dead and/or in distress (=scripted in to die if you don't save them) Argonian, such as Dives-In-Caves, Swims-With-Slaughterfish, Tinkers-With-Steam Centurion or maybe even a corpse with rocks on it called Stoned Argonian.(You get the idea). Argonians are the Bunny Suicides of Tamriel.

[Kovacius]

Making one in the shape of a giant bowl would be different, with small individual "housing" alcoves leading off of the main chamber. The bottom of the chamber could be a lake, with a narrow strip of sand along the edge, and the ground would curve up gradually until it became the walls of the chamber. A long winding or spiral path leading up along the walls would connect the dwellings. The top could even be open, either a tiny hole to admit light and fresh air, or a high vertical volcanic "vent", inaccessable without serious levitation ability, and pretty much unfindable from the outside. The former would be an interior cell, since the vent hole could be left too narrow to fit through; the latter would have to be considered an exterior.

A narrow "chasm" layout, with ledges at various levels along the vertical or undercut sides of a ravine, is another possibility. Think of the cliff dwellers in the American Southwest, but with two sides interconnected by rope bridges and occasional platforms.

How about a Dunmer fortress or other non-Daedric structure that "slipped" into a chasm or volcanic vent in the distant past, and is now leaning at an awkward angle. Most of it is buried, but passages have been dug throughout and around sections of the partially collapsed ruins.

The traditional "mineshaft", a deep vertical hole with horizontal passages leading off in various directions at different levels. Either a ladder or a crude stone stair running in a square or round spiral around the walls could allow access to the different levels, or it could depend on a lift or elevator which might now be broken and lying on the bottom of the vertical shaft (levitation required).

[herennow]

Making one in the shape of a giant bowl would be different, with small individual "housing" alcoves leading off of the main chamber. The bottom of the chamber could be a lake, with a narrow strip of sand along the edge, and the ground would curve up gradually until it became the walls of the chamber. A long winding or spiral path leading up along the walls would connect the dwellings. The top could even be open, either a tiny hole to admit light and fresh air, or a high vertical volcanic "vent", inaccessable without serious levitation ability, and pretty much unfindable from the outside. The former would be an interior cell, since the vent hole could be left too narrow to fit through; the latter would have to be considered an exterior.

That's the Fraggle Rock type cave, yes?

I like the idea of a highly vertical cave, requiring levitation to get out of, which is externally at the centre of a crater impact like site, although I'm not sure if you can get meteor equivalents in Tamriel.

A crashed Daedric voidship would be cool though...

[Harke the Apostle]

That's the Fraggle Rock type cave, yes?

Hey! I was going to propose that. I would like it, if one of the lake caves were accesible by means of a well (placed in the exterior). If you go in, you fall down into the lake. (requires a disappearing invisible platform scripted in, they said at PES when i discussed a similar idea)

[Thrignar Fraxix]

Rather than make a gigantic post full of quotes I will comment on all the ideas labeling them by poster, further subdivided by which of the posts the user has made.

Jedak 1: I love this idea, walk 3 feet into a cave, see nothing further. perhaps it is dark. the player walks forward a bit more then plummets to their death/major damage.

Nanu 1: Bloat is fun, as are Andres caves. Those listed things are all good ideas that have been done well before, but part of what makes them good ideas is that they are all rare. Kwamam mines... I have always wanted to put a suprise at the end of one of these. Perhaps one of the caves I plan on putting up should be one. Vampires... I guess a cave or two wouldn't hurt, but as with the other ideas, do it too often and it is no longer special.

Zalz 1: Way to uber. A Tunnel perhaps, but something of that size and style is simply too uber.

Hemitheon 1: Moria?

CC 1: tunnel caves are nice, I agree.

Nomadic1 1: That would be interesting. Find me two ruins near two towns and I will consider it.

Hemitheon 2: Supervillain type actions FTW. Perhaps the abandon dwemer mine could be in the basement of a ruin ala that one place you have to go to get the puzzle box. Daedric Ruin with a Seer will probably be done when we get to the daedric cult questline. Cave of a serial killer is do-able, perhaps an umbra like showdown (or was that done on map 1, if so then we shouldn't do it again). Fight to the death type thing, once again, would come up during questing if at all. Meditation place... Starcrunch did this VERY well on map 2, a few more of those could be done, perhaps even with tribunal related reasoning. Is there lore concerning Seht's birth? I don't recall. Dwemer power was all produced on site. Mass grave could perhaps work.

Presh 1: Just approved a skooma production facility the other day. we could probably do with another, but not so close to the first one. wait for map 4 or 5 perhaps. 6th house dump sight would be on Vvard if at all. I like the vamily shrine type thing. perhaps it could be coupled with a shack town.

Harke 1: i) no, lighting would be a bitch and you might as well have it above ground. ii) Plausible, but not likely. iii) no. iv) Have you ever worked with the cave tileset? If someone wants to make this, AND CAN MAKE IT WITHOUT MAKING IT FUCKING GIGANTIC, then I am OK with this one. v) I don't really like this idea for some reason. vi) This would require a specialized exterior and is thus, infeasible. vii) I like this idea. viii) The entire reason that works in RL is because it is open to the outside. Seeing as interiors can't be done on the exterior, this won't work.

EdAptra 1: Musical instruments in a cavern... that's odd. Perhaps leave some corpses too and fill it with wild animals when NPC time comes around.

Harke 2: ix) one was just approved the other day... or perhaps it is still claimed. x) I like it. xi) no. xii) Caves don't strike me as poet friendly. xiii) if andres wants to it might be an interesting easter egg at the end of a cave. xiv) interesting occurance for the end of a bandit cave. xv) intriguing idea, perhaps suitable for outside of OE. xvi) you really haven't used the CS much have you. Impossible to do well/right

El Scum 1: This map already has an ashlander burial cavern IIRC, and they should only be done every other map IMO so try again on map 5 =P. I like the hermit cave idea. I like the archaeological cave idea too. Naked Nord caves though... they belong outside IMO.

Gro Dahl 1: like, too big, great for a grotto.

Magelord 1: I already demolished your Kollop mine idea in that claim thread. Everything else you say has been suggested.

Vrenir 1: map 6 would be more suitable

Harke 3: XVII) meh, don't really like it for some reason.

Harke 4: XVIII) Once again, I don't really like this for some reason. Argonians aren't all inept. Stoned Argonian is a definite no.

Kovacius 1: Interesting idea, but having it open to the exterior in anyway isn't really feasible. Next idea also really would only work in an exterior. Exterior idea again. I like the idea of a RL style mine.

herenow 1: crashed daedric voidship? no

Phew, I didn't realize how many ideas were in this thread.

[Haplo]

Come on TF, tell me you've heard of Moria.

[blackbird]

The mines of moria? Anyone who knows a little about LoTR should have heard about it.

[Theo]

What is so uber on the idea of great cave complex? Why could there not be at least one proper underworld complex of caves in Morrowind which player could explore? Is not an Almalexia to uber city? I remember that project as well... It was meant to lead through mountains in west of Meralag to Darnim Watch. That would be uber cool.

[herennow]

On the surface you could have a sunk dwemer ruin with a dwemer ghost walking around. Talking to it would trigger a quest to help it find the entrance to the ruin, accessed by a nearby cave system. At the end it rewards you with some dwemery item.

[presh]

"Presh 1: ... 6th house dump sight would be on Vvard if at all. ..."


Not necessarily. We know there is at least one sixth house dumping site outside of Vvardenfell - on the Island of Gorne. The Poison Song books also mentions battles all over Morrowind, so I guess it is possible to have sites anywhere.

P.S. Sorry, don't know how to do the proper quoting thing.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

What is so uber on the idea of great cave complex? Why could there not be at least one proper underworld complex of caves in Morrowind which player could explore? Is not an Almalexia to uber city? I remember that project as well... It was meant to lead through mountains in west of Meralag to Darnim Watch. That would be uber cool.

is there one anywhere else? Tunnels yes, but an underground complex? I don't believe so. As I said before tunnels are ok, but doing a massive underground complex is a bit much. There can be interesting things in the tunnels. Of the ideas Zalz mentioned you could have the dwemer ruin, the underground lake, or the goblins. Having more than one of these at a time and having a gigantic cave complex is too uber though. Almalexia is a gigantic city, but it is supposed to be. I don't see any lore saying that there should be a gigantic cave complex under map 3.

[Jedak]

With the complex idea, we could do something that is still big but not uber:

An underwater lake that is used by the dunmer to pass the mountains -- when crossing submerged tunnels, there are scaffolds and _de_dock pieces to connect the sections.
That seems to be it, but in a unknown passage that secretly branches off the lake complex leads to a small dwemer ruin partially filled with goodies because noone ever looted it, but partially because the ruin collapsed into the cave from above

Or maybe the ruin was built in the cave, never looted and filled with goodies.

[Nomadic1]

In 3-38-Ind there is a Dwemer ruin without an entrance. IIRC that was the ruin with which the cave complex was supposed to connect.

[Jedak]

All the more reason to have a dwemer ruin in a large lake complex

[Zalzidrax]

Anyway in real life there are lots and lots of small caves--but there are a couple large cave complexes too... if the point is to make it believable, then we have to include both. Having every cave be a small, separate entity to me seems to sap my suspension of disbelief just as much as having every cave be some massive monstrosity full of lost secrets and magical power and all that stuff. I mean what says man made more than standardized sizes?

[Harke the Apostle]

Could we get a link to the original cave complex discussion if it still exists somewhere?
It would be interesting to read more about the ideas that were proposed.
(I can't find it with Search).