[FCG]: Hammerfellian Temples

Shriek Hawk · Post by **Shriek Hawk** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:26 pm

[url=http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o3/a_sigint_ninja/TES%20Concept%20Art/TempleConcept.jpg]Temple Concept[/url]

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:40 pm

An interesting concept, Shriek, what's inside of the temple?

Shriek Hawk · Post by **Shriek Hawk** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:54 pm

That, I'll get up in a few days. I'm thinking more of a simple layout, with thick walls and a central shrine.

Apologies, but I'm brain-dead at the moment.

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:52 pm

Here are some more temples. (I can't believe I didn't put this up earlier, maybe I have).

[url=http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earlytemplesuw5.jpg][img]http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/4479/earlytemplesuw5.th.jpg[/img][/url]

I might draw the temple on the middle right. It's very similar to Dexter's concept, but much simpler.

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:44 am

<BUMP>

Here's the temple sketched quickly.
It's not ready for the modelers yet, it's more to get the discussion going again.

[url=http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=templesketchou5.jpg][img]http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7558/templesketchou5.th.jpg[/img][/url]

After this I have one more temple idea that I'll post in this thread..

What exactly should be inside the temple? how much space is required?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:42 pm

not too much, around the same amount of space as the imperial cathedrals i would think. personaly, im thinking circular layout. both due to religious segnificance and athetic reasons (i like circular temples

)

imho, going indian with this is not the best step. i think that a more traditional islamic look (arches and domes and stuff) is more appropriate since its closer to our arch sets.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:11 pm

IMO that Temple too closely resembles Oblivion's cathedrals.

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:28 pm

Lady Nerevar wrote:not too much, around the same amount of space as the imperial cathedrals i would think. personaly, im thinking circular layout. both due to religious segnificance and athetic reasons (i like circular temples )

imho, going indian with this is not the best step. i think that a more traditional islamic look (arches and domes and stuff) is more appropriate since its closer to our arch sets.

Stros M'Kai has a temple like that, maybe the new temple can be made to resemble it?

http://www.imperial-library.info/tsorg/part02.shtml

Shriek Hawk · Post by **Shriek Hawk** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:40 am

My apologies for being a bad person and not getting this up earlier.

[url=http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o3/a_sigint_ninja/TES%20Concept%20Art/templeBlueprint.jpg]Rough Temple Blueprint[/url]

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:42 pm

yea, something like stros m'kai. exept updated for graphics ofcourse, and really it has space for aditions.

i think a lot of detail can be added to the temple with addons from each city. judging solely from what we alredy have there is a lot of room from creativity. that way, while we still have one model, each citie's temple can look different from the others.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:49 pm

It would be helpful, if we could take a look at the mesh withouth the game. I mean something like nifskope. There is a tool for daggerfall models, so maybe there is a respective(I'm not sure about the use of this word, sorry if I'm wrong) one for Redguard. Or am I just dreaming away?

LN, your idea about the temple addons sounds good. But we should have everything discussed and planned (From the exterior through various types of addons, including how far we can go with addons to the interior.) before a modeller starts working on this. Just keep that in mind, I just don't want to us to wake up in the middle of nowhere with a claim...

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:01 am

i supose someone with redguard (im looking at you nalin

) could make screenshots for referance. but im not aware of any converters like that of dagerfall.

and yes, we definatly need to get everything sorted out before making a claim. totaly agreed.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:28 pm

Lady Nerevar wrote:i supose someone with redguard (im looking at you nalin ) could make screenshots for referance.

You what the annoying thing is? I took pictures of the temple of stros m'kai from all angles to get good schematics of it and saved them in my "Redguard architecture" folder.
Before I deleted it along with every texture I'd ripped from the game that I thought would be useful....
...sometimes I just have to look back and think;

WHY?

Sorry peoples - I have a pretty good idea of it's look from memory - but the screens, along with the game now (which wasn't mine to keep), are gone!

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:32 pm

Nalin wrote:
Lady Nerevar wrote:i supose someone with redguard (im looking at you nalin ) could make screenshots for referance.
You what the annoying thing is? I took pictures of the temple of stros m'kai from all angles to get good schematics of it and saved them in my "Redguard architecture" folder.
Before I deleted it along with every texture I'd ripped from the game that I thought would be useful....
...sometimes I just have to look back and think;

WHY?

Sorry peoples - I have a pretty good idea of it's look from memory - but the screens, along with the game now (which wasn't mine to keep), are gone!

You don't have the Windows XP 'time-travel function', do you?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:28 pm

that sucks

well, you could try drawing a quick referance schematic if you want. otherwise we can just work on referance materials alredy avaliable on the net.

Corwyn · Post by **Corwyn** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:32 am

[img]http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/carbon140/temple.gif[/img]

*throws hat in ring*

more middle easternish thing built around a circular center?

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:05 am

Corwyn wrote:
*throws hat in ring*

more middle easternish thing built around a circular center?

Not so fast, Corwyn!

How did you make/get that image?

Corwyn · Post by **Corwyn** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:13 am

What do you mean "not so fast"? Its not a real drawing, its a 3dsmax render using ink and paint material =D it was quicker to build it in max than to draw it! took me all of about half an hour with some splines, array and lathe.

If your implying I stole it from somewhere then no, I am the same "Corwyn" from elsewhere. ie "fantasy figures" mod and a bunch of my artwork is around the place including the title bar for "Skyrim for oblivion" and some of their concept art and also a couple of pieces in "the island" mod. *shrug* I was just lurking and decided "hey that might be fun to whip up" so I did!

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:31 am

Corwyn wrote:What do you mean "not so fast"?

As in

Corwyn wrote:*throws hat in ring*

If you hadn't made it yourself, it would have been perfectly legitimate for you to post it, as long as you didn't try to pass it off as your own work.
Your image is a welcome addition to this concept art thread, but you (probably) still need to make a showcase.
You might consider modeling...

If you to make another model now perhaps you could make something that looks like this.

http://www.imperial-library.info/tsorg/part02.shtml
(more blocky with a mirhab)...

The temple you posted looks very good, although it's perhaps a bit too victorian.

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:53 am

How is that Victorian?

Corwyn · Post by **Corwyn** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:56 am

ah sorry, I thought anyone could contribute with ideas, the "hat in the ring" comment was more intended to mean "here is my idea", I had/have no intention of joining the mod or anything! The location and style interests me but the mod itself not so much for a couple of reasons.

Sorry for the confusion! If its not what the mod is after its cool, just thought it might give others ideas etc!

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:04 am

Its a very nice peice of art corwyn. Thanks for sharing

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:02 am

Haplo wrote:How is that Victorian?

short answer:

http://www.fashion-era.com/images/RegencyRom/pavil14025.jpg

long answer:

The Victorian architects were noted for their innovative architecture. They were also noted for creating neo-styles which architecture had all kinds of references to historical architecture but lacked the original purpose.

Compare a western European castle with a neogothical bank from the late nineteen hundreds.
You'll find that the bank looks a bit silly.

What are the 'Victorian' elements in this concept?

1). The stairs that run around the base of the four corner towers but lead nowhere.
2). The round stairs around the entrance.
3). The combination of pillars.
4). The circle section balconies that are held up by the little turrets.
5). The center tower on top of the dome.

The 'Victorianism' is not in any seperate element rather than in the combination of them all together. It's all a bit much...

IRL architecture is beside the point, but Scumbago's architecture is much more spare than this, and I think this concept would fit better with it, if it had less of these elements or have them arranged in another way.

I do like this concept, and I hope corwyn will stick around.
What I'm not sure about is that this is 'the' temple concept.

I think this style (but not the shape of this concept) is much better suited for palaces.

Corwyn · Post by **Corwyn** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:58 am

Hmm, hate to disagree, but after my own little bit of research and asking someone a lot more knowledgable than me I came to the conclusion that that picture hardly qualifies as typical "victorian" architecture. (the person I asked only knows of that one "victorian" building that even looks like that) the designers in that case blatantly ripped off middle easter/persian/indian/russian styles and added a lot of frivolity to boot!

I do agree my concept is too over the top however, looking at it now its not at all right =p but at the same time the original building from redguard is just..dull. Even if its realistic, dull fantasy environments dont sit well with me, especially if they are special buildings like temples, palaces etc *shrug*

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:05 pm

Corwyn. I'm with you on the "fantasy environments should be abit...well, fantastic".

No one is suggesting we should drop the reguard temple concepts that we have as a basic guide from Redguard - BUT - let's face it, Redguard is old and there wasn't that much they (beth) could have done with the temple even if they'd wanted to due to the limitations they were stuck with.

To whip that up in half an hour is impressive and let's face it - when it comes to modeling - you know what you're doing. I'm hoping you hang around here more

And yeah, you're probably a long time lurker (like I was and most people here were) but, Welcome to TR

gro-Dhal · Post by **gro-Dhal** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:44 pm

Victorian=/=Regency. But I see what you mean. I still think it looks good, and a lot will come down to the texturing/choice of colours.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:21 pm

Oh my, how did I miss that thread? Great work man, indeed. I would like you to have promoted... Your skills with max seem to be very, very useful.

About the concept. Great job, IMHO all that it needs is altering some of the elements and mixing a bit of the stuff we already have into it (through shapes or textures) and it would work just great. But, what about the entrance? Could you upload the .max or .3ds file so I could take a look by myself?
And I'm wondering what Lady N has to say about your ideas.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:37 pm

i think its HAWT. there is 2 major problems with it in relation to gameplay however:

1)scale. to do this thing any justice it would have to be quite (if not very) large. sadly, we dont have such space in each and every city. scaling it down without any remodeling would make it look miniature imho.

2) how cool it is. its just plain cool and unique. the temples need to be used quite a few times because were not doing unique ones for each city. and having something this unique appear 8 times in the game... cancels out its uniqueness.

ok, how about we consolidate the cool and the practical into one. Go with a round base with a large dome (like on the concept). one story, but with a high ceiling. Modular towers, like those on Corwyn's concepts but less elaborate. Arches ofcourse, either plain round if the dome is plain round or pointed if the dome is pointed (wich i personaly think is cooler)

For aditional uniqueness pieces from the region sets can be used for customazation. really, its a simple task to rip colums of the existing sets and let them be modular onto unique buildings like the temple. since such cosmetic variations dont impact the interior they are easy to make.

Even if you dont want to join the mod i appreciate this concept. having a fresh look at it is certainly nice. If you ever do decide to join we would love to have you, if you are the corwyn that i think you are your work is definatly high quality

Corwyn · Post by **Corwyn** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:37 pm

thanks guys!

Lady N, those things you suggested were basically what I figured needed doing anyway! (well except for the scale =p, 2 of my huge pet peeves are oblivions scale with its sandbox cities and level scaling)

Here is a tower thats single story, has arches in between pillars etc. Its still fairly over detailed but I think at full size with correct textures that isn't an issue?

[img]http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/carbon140/tower.gif[/img]

meh, I am just having fun and throwing ideas around

I think Harke might be right too, that the style might be better implemented into palaces?

p.s

aro, the .max is corrupted, it crashes my max about 5 mins after loading the file, but I could upload an exported obj or try 3ds or if you REALLY want the dodgy max file that too =p

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:25 pm

This one makes much more sense architectonically than the last model. I really like what you did with the arches and the pillars.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:50 pm

This one would still be too big, but it can easily be lowered in the middle part and by scaling down the onion dome (which would also make it look closer to our style.)
Upload an obj .3ds and the corrupted maxfile please. It's worth of it. If I can recover the mesh, it would spare us some work

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:42 pm

It's great that you got back onto this so quick and with such little persuasion - only problem for me is that I just don't see it as a temple.

Maybe it's from my redguard playing days - but I envisioned the temples we'd be doing to look more like they were inspired by the ones in redguard - that people who'd played redguard could "see the link" and think; "Yeah, that's what beth would have done if they could have"

I'll try and mock something up from memory to give you and idea of how I remember them then and would like to see them now.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:25 pm

Nalin wrote: "Yeah, that's what beth would have done if they could have"

And if they would care.

Though it would be great if you could come up with something that would be closer to the temples from Redguard... On the other hand, if we would cut up the upper part, and just end it up with a round dome and texture it (imagine the colums are blue), it would fit very well into our Goldmoor style, but I'm only not sure what should be located in that building.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:36 pm

Very cool- what a great way to concept architecture. I dont think it's too big: and the top tower gives it a look that says: this is not a standard building.

Could we have more than one temple model perhaps? this one's already done

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:41 pm

i think it looks like a penis with that tower on top

ehem....
i think this style is definatly suited for palaces in its elaborate and expensive design. temple wise, i think the main building should be flanked by the towers (wich, as i sugested earlier, could be modular). love both the arches and the pillars on the new version

as for multiple models... the way i see it is if we have someone willing to make multiple ones its cool. otherwise, if we dont have the resources, there are more important things/

Lutemoth · Post by **Lutemoth** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:39 pm

beautiful. Just beautiful

As well, Welcome, Corwyn. I always admire initiative to participate

Post by **Gnomey** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:17 pm

By the way, I discovered a playable Redguard DEMO and even downloaded it, until I found out that it needs 3Dfx.

Basically it is the Redguard game minus interiors, making the MQ unplayable, and with Cyrus not being able to leave the island. (No swimming and visits to N'Gasta, but none of this maters in the way of Redguard architecture).

Here's a link, but you can find a lot more by searching for "Redguard DEMO":

downloads.gamezone.com/demos/d318.htm

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:39 pm

I have two more screenshots from Redguard that I made from the walkthrough on youtube.

[url=http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=temple1cj6.png][img]http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8760/temple1cj6.th.png[/img][/url]

Here you can see that the Temple of Arkay on Redguard is roughly cubical with a shallow dome on top.

[url=http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=temple2eo7.png][img]http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/3082/temple2eo7.th.png[/img][/url]

Here you can see the interior; an altar on a dais, and a hallway around it.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:01 pm

That temple (Redguard) very much reminds me of the buildings in [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samarkand]Samarkand[/url].

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:14 am

^ Maybe it's because of the iwans?

I've tried to recreate the Redguard temple exterior from the screenshots.

[url=http://img127.imageshack.us/my.php?image=temple2isoor6.jpg][img]http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/8259/temple2isoor6.th.jpg[/img][/url]

The stack of cylinders is meant to be a dome. But I can't pull that off in sketchup yet. (this is my first model).