4-8-Hla

Post by **Haplo** » Sat May 14, 2005 8:15 pm

Claim type: Exterior
Claim ID: TR_4-8-Hla (#145)
Faction: Hlaalu
Claimed by: Nemon
Status: Approved (Progress: 100%)
Location: (-19,-27):(-12,-29) (-18:-17,-30) (-16,-30):(-12,-31), Size: 36
Files: TR_4-8-Hla_Haplo_1.esp

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Kragenmoor and Shadowgate Pass

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:20 am

Revoked. Cut out the claim from the current Map 4 if you want to use the WIP, but if you do, make sure to take out the city and all the settlements (Dwemer, Daedric Ruins, Ashlander Camp, Fort, etc.)

This includes Kragenmoore; also, if you can, please keep the fountain thing in Kragenmoore, it's really cool.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:46 am

Claiming.

I'll keep the fountain thing.

EDIT: Talk about empty. I'll rework the mountains to make them really tall like they are in Oblivion. The fortress will kind of sit in the mountain pass somehow. I'll try and salvage what I can but a lot will probably end up going.

My real question is if this should stay Redoran or be converted to Hlaalu like it is in lore. If it is Hlaalu then be it, but if it is Redoran I'll have to cut some stuff. I suspect the city isn't the most playable.

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:44 pm

Make it Halaylew please!

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:16 am

Uploaded as 1 is the original claim with all NPCs, dialogue, activators and whatever other crap removed. Uploaded as 2 is the claim with everything but the fountain thing removed.

EDIT: Attached screenie of my idea for the striderport. Instead of the single ramp up, I decided to try something a little bigger.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:57 am

Attached screenies of one cell containing 25 buildings. Being undetailed, changes are easy to make so suggest some.

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:01 pm

great, just great.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:47 pm

Very nice. One thing I'm keen to have in Kragenmoore (not sure if you need worry about it, or if it's down to the NPC-ers and Int-ers) is a house/dwelling/office/whatever for the Athram family of Flin traders, who are referenced in Oblivion by Ules Athram "of the Kragenmoore Athram's. I made my money in the flin trade, and now I'm living the life of ease in the City". It would be cool to build on that reference, if that's doable (at whatever stage)

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:26 pm

I planned to put a largish Athram Manor near the fountain thing. I figure they aren't the absolute most influential and rich family in Kragenmoor, but they are probably very much up there.

EDIT: More screenies. I've added 40 buildings now. Since this city is comparable in size to Firewatch, Ebonheart, Narsis, Tear and Blacklight, I reckon I've got about another 40 buildings to add.

EDIT 2: Placed exactly 80 buildings. Have uploaded a birds-eye view of the city and a backup of the claim.

EDIT 3: Screens removed

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:17 pm

It looks great so far!

I assume the southwestern corner is an area you still have to place buildings in, right?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:46 pm

looks great

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:24 pm

Thanks for the kind words

I've placed 80 buildings in the city now. Unless you specifically tell me to, I won't be adding any more. The southwestern cell, it is hard to tell from the picture, has a large difference in height between the roadside on the eastern edge and the district in the northwestern corner. My intention was to extend the mountain into the empty portion.

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:14 pm

Nice one!

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:58 am

I've now started re-landscaping the mountains.

I have a question about the Pryai River. Should it still continue into Cyrodiil?

From TESIV, did they have snow at this point southwards in the Velothi Mountains? I know for fact they didn't lower, howver I never explored the mountains this close to Cheydinhal.

Lastly, here's a rough idea for the Shadowgate Pass. I wasn't really too sure of what to add to a border fortress. The cornered building would be the Census and Excise, possibly being the most used pass into Morrowind I would expect there to be one. TBH I just wanted to play around with that mesh so I could easily replace it. For the small building, the idea is to have a small shop for people to buy Morrowind-ia travelling items (eg: helmets with goggles, licquors, travelling clothes, etc.). That was more to fill up space.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:10 pm

Sounds cool. Though, it raises the question of how are we dealing with the borders in this?

Perhaps the easiest thing to do would be have an Oblivion-esque invisible wall, made of the 'thou shalt not levitate' squares from Mournhold, forming a border at some point? Though having enough of them to make a seamless border might cause problems/lag?

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:07 pm

all border fortresses need to have a gate over the road, and have that road continue on past the fort long enough to suggest that there is something over there. (shouldn't be more than a cell or two if you make the road turn)

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:46 pm

I made the fotress so that the gate is one which cannot be opened, much like that door in Dagon Fel which can't be opened because there are crates in the way on the inside (I used that script, just replaced the message). If the layout and the buildings I've used seem alright, I'll move the fortress to the corner of the cell it is in.

Should it be in the cell it is in (-18, -29)? At the moment it would require me to make an additional cell (-19, -30) just so one can see into the distance from the walls.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:50 pm

you need to make the extra cell(s) if it is required for the player to look into "Cyrodiil" (make sure the road curves so that those with extended view distances can't see the edge. Good idea with the gate.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:59 am

In Oblivion, the snow on the Velothi Mountains is fairly thick going southwards until you get about level with Cheydinhal, after which the snow quickly gets confined to the very tops of the mountains. Comparing the location of Kragenmoor with Cheydinhal with maps at the Imperial Library, it is about this claim that the Velothi Mountains start losing a lot of the snow. With this in mind I attach the following screenies. I can easily redo this and keep snow only on the peaks.

I also attached the script for the gate (yes, somebody please come up with a better message)

Code: Select all

Begin TR_M4-8_GateCyrodiil

if (MenuMode == 1)
return
endif

if ( OnActivate == 1 )

	MessageBox, "Beyond the gate lies the Imperial Province. However you feel your destiny lies in Morrowind and so do not pass through."

	return

endif

End TR_M4-8_GateCyrodiil

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:18 am

Nomadic1 wrote: I have a question about the Pryai River. Should it still continue into Cyrodiil?

Yes.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:08 pm

Kragenmoor
Kragen Mar
but Kragen already means something
as I said at TESF (but it was deleted because OH MY GOD HES BANNED!) this is just bullshit because of Arena's use of name generators
so something with a K Mar.

Map 4 needs an Imperial presence somewhere, by the way.

God Nomadic. I think I came.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:45 pm

Needs to remain Kragenmoor, due to references in books, and in Oblivion dialogue.

BTW: [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Avrus_Adas]this guy[/url] needs to make a cameo appearance in the Temple here,if you ask me.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:58 pm

Kragen Mar then, Wolf101 just made up a good reason its got kragen in its name.

Kragenmoor is the Imperial name.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:50 am

Thanks for the kind words Sload.

For the name, I'll keep it as Kragenmoor if only because this is how it appears in Arena and in dialogue. I think a change like that would also have to be approved by the core and they can do it later if they see reason to.

It is funny that thread was made, completely unprompted and at the perfect time for me.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:01 am

[img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/thumb/8/80/Declaration.jpg/600px-Declaration.jpg[/img]

I AM THE CORE!

yeah whatever. Kragenmoor's just Colovian at best.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:19 pm

Kickass macro thing.

Well, the sources for "Kragenmoor" are Arena; King Edward (I think) mentions a ruler of Kragenmoor: do a TIL search for actual book; ex-Kragenmoor citizen Ulen Athram mentions it; ex-Kragenmoor citizen Avrus Adas mentions it.

The first two leave room for a 'Dunmer version', but the fact that two ex-natives call it that suggests that's its actual name.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:17 am

Is the city of Kragenmoor (or whatever) going to be 4 cells?

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:15 pm

It looks like it, yes.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:57 pm

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:The first two leave room for a 'Dunmer version', but the fact that two ex-natives call it that suggests that's its actual name.

Using a the name the Champion of Cyrodiil (what a shit thing to call the player btw) is more likely to know than Kragenmar?

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:23 pm

This is starting to sound like a conspiracy theory...

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:50 am

Update. I went through and playtested what I've modded so far just to see how the ground texturing, landscaping of the mountains and the layout of Kragenmoor, Shadowgate and a Dwemer ruin look like. Found a couple of errors which I'll fix shortly.

I'm going to go through and place the major statics first, and then go detailing over the lot. Kragenmoor will be finished last.

As it stands this claim is going to be a mix of RM for the mountains and AI/WG for the rest. BM textures are also used for where I want snow. I've decided I don't want the lower areas to be forested like most people do, so there will be lots of rocks and grass instead. This might, incidently, keep FPS fairly good given the size of the city.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:09 pm

1 month checkup! (I know I just ragged on you about your i3-13-Ind claim... sorry for the pressure if you feel any)

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:49 pm

I've placed some rocks and shit, and have done some landscape texturing around the west of the claim. I've also mapped out some of the road in the north of the claim and placed a few caves around.

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:19 pm

Progrizzle Updateroo materoo?

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:04 am

I've done a little more of this. Nothing update-worthy though.

I put this off to get i3-13 done, and now I've gone and claimed i1-70

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:55 am

Sload wrote:Kragen Mar then, Wolf101 just made up a good reason its got kragen in its name.

Kragenmoor is the Imperial name.

That's quite very old, but anybody remembers what was Wolf101's reason?

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:54 pm

We're not changing this name, please, for the love of all that's good.

IIRC, Sload was covertly reading BGSF, where some guy had theorised that a link between Kragenmoor and some other place in Arena was that the devs were using a name gen, and that's how they got Kragenmoor, and this somehow invalidated its use in Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion, as well as Arena.

I'm pretty sure you were in that thread. Do a search for Kragen or Moor at the BGSF.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:04 pm

Maybe there's a Dwemer ruin underneath the city and that's how the name originated. Maybe Clan Kragen originated from that area.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:03 pm

I always imagined a Dwemer link to the city, somehow. It does fit and the name-generator theory is shit (though probably true). There were two places which historically had more Dwemer ruins than anywhere else: Vvardenfell and the Velothi Mountains. But I'm not adding anything Dwemer-y to the city - its been done in Mournhold. But I have added a ruin to the northwest.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:01 am

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:We're not changing this name, please, for the love of all that's good.

Oh yes we are. Kragenmoor is the Imperial name for the place. I can live with Kragenmar.