Reconciling the Main Quest (MW)

[Thrignar Fraxix]

How are we dealing with it?

Dunno if this has been decided elsewhere but in order to keep the mod seamless with the original game we need to add dialog pertaining to the MQ.

First Point: Ashlanders.

4 tribes must name you Nerevarine. based upon the fact that all you need is a simply majority to become Hortator, I believe there are 3 ashlander tribes on the main land. They will of course have no real bearing on the main quest as they wouldn't name you Nerevarine under any circumstance. Do these exist ATM, or do they need to be added. Also, where should they go if we do add them.

Second Point: Houses with presences on Vvardenfell.

They view the Dagoth Ur crisis as unimportant. They will defer jurisdiction on the matter to the Vvardenfell hierarchy.

Third Point: Houses without Presences on Vvardenfell.

Indoril: Don't like the prospect of this in the slightest. Some will attack you on site, others will have dispositions in the crapper. No way to be named Hortator and dangerous even to ask.

Dres: Will ask you to pay to talk with the councilors about such a touchy subject then outright refuse you. No way to be named Hortator and expensive even to ask.

Thoughts, additions, comments welcome. Perhaps we have already done all this shit, but I get the feeling it hasn't ALL been done even if part of it has.

[gro-Dhal]

I think the Ashlanders would mainly be found in the more remote parts of northern Morrowind.

As far as the Houses go, I agree that the blight would be seen as Vvardenfell's problem. If the player asks about being Hortator perhaps they'll admit they've heard of someone claiming that title, but it couldn't possibly be *you* because the person they've heard about is on Vvardenfell and there's a quarantine in place, hmmm?

Also there could be a few references to the perceived oddness of their Vvardenfell cousins, a perception that they've breathed in too much ash and gone a bit funny as a result.

[Lud]

I have already added some various bits of dialogue to map1 that mention the events on Vvardenfell, and recognise the player as Nerevarine. Nothing major though.

1) How do we know how many Ashlander tribes there are on the mainland? (Just curious)
I reckon one in the Velothi Mountains, one in the lava-and-rocks bit of Map3 and one somewhere on Map5- all the crappiest land. (Ashlander cliff-settlement ftw!)


2) Sounds good

3) Indoril: I can't see them attacking you for such a thing, seing as by the time you can be named hortator you have the support of the Temple. (I think) I'd imagine they'd just feed you some guff about waiting for the Temple to lead and being patient, then giving a disposition drop.

Dres: Sounds good.


I reckon we should have a nice set of reactions from the Indoril when the PC is wanted by the Temple. Like making them really go after him/her; pitchfork-wielding mobs, being handed over to the inquisition, the works. All guards should try to arrest you on sight. It'd be good to see the Indoril as sucking up to the Temple and being really overzealous in this way.

EDIT: And I recommend we decide how each faction would react to each event on Vvardenfell and then give them dialogue based on the journal at various points in the MQ.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

1) If the player is required to gain support from a majority of the tribes and houses, then it can be assumed that there is one fewer of each without holdings on vvardenfel than there are with. (follow me? I'm not sure how else to explain it)

3) By the time you are trying to be named hortator the temple wants your head. Remember Ald Daedroth and how the ordinators attack you when you say you are the nerevarine?

Factional Reactions I would assume would only need updating VERY infrequently and only with the largest of quests. I don't think anyone would give a shit what is going on until the hortator nerevarine shit starts. (although someone magic-y and in the know could have an interesting comment or two on the curing of your corpus) Really, now that I think about it, there doesn't really need to be too much of a reaction from non-imperial (as in legion and cult, not mages and fighters), non-temple, non-great house factions.

[Akul]

If the player asks about being Hortator perhaps they'll admit they've heard of someone claiming that title, but it couldn't possibly be *you* because the person they've heard about is on Vvardenfell and there's a quarantine in place, hmmm?

The people of Mournhold recognized you as Nerevearine the second you steped into it.

Also, great houses should pay greater respect to you. Being the militiary leader of Ashlanders, three great houses of Vvardanfel, leader of Temple militia and with great Imperial support, you are theoreticaly the King of Vvardanfel, even if Bethsoft didn't implent it at all.

The Indorils were rude to you in Mournhold just because their godess was there and they hoped that she would protect theme from you. Also, killing Almalexia you have proved that not even a god is more powerful then you (I doubt that dunmer believed that their gods were so weaken by Dagoth Ur and destruction of the heart). I doubt that other people would be so cunning to anger you. Also, other houses would want the Nerevearine to join theme so, if he ain't member of any house, they should try to suck up... at least until he joins one house.

The reputation of Nerevearine should enable new features to the player, like:
-mentioning Nereverine to NPC's in Vvardanfel increased their dispositin to you until it reached 70. For NPC's on Mainland, the border should be 50 or 40, since they are more interested in your reputation than thankful to you.
-there should be quests that let you be named Nerevearine by all the other Ashlander tribes since they want Nerevearine not to destroy Dagoth Ur, but because they hope that he will improve their status in Morrowind society. The reward for thiese quests should be few weak artifacts and perhaps some moderate companions. Also, some minor changes (like Ashlander merchants in MW cities and new merchants in Ashlander camps to show that their status as increased, but not enough to be able to fight with future official lore) should be added for atmosphere.
-ability to become hortator by other houses should be there. Thiese quests should be interesting to those players who like schemese and plots and would want to become part of theme. Being named hortator should give player some weak artifact and increase in disposition towards the great houses, as well as decrease to anothre great houses. Should player make his main objective becoming the hortator, the difficulty of quests should increase. Example: being declared hortator by houses x and y was hard, but not to hard. Seeing that you are ambitious, houses z, t and r become more resistant. After houses z and t declare you the hortator, house r should be so resistant that their declaration quest would become so hard that it could fail with the first minor mistake.
-if player would become hortator of at least three houses, he should get the "Converting to Nine Divines" quest. Since we know that the "Nine Divines temple" became more powerful, why not make a quest where Nerevearine has his hands in it? This should not be a hard quest since it would be there mostly for atmosphere.
Temples to Nine Divines would later appear in cities and dialogues of NPC's could change as time goes showing up the convertings (greater discposition and more mentioning Akatosh and less Vivec). New temples woudn't be anything special since they would just be created so creation of new objects would be on minimum, if not at 0.

Thiese are just my opinions on how it should be done (I just got an idea for a future mod).

[blackbird]

Some of my NPC's in map 2 a2 give comments, when you have become the Nerevarine, especially Dralothas Omothran.

[gro-Dhal]

The people of Mournhold recognized you as Nerevearine the second you steped into it.

That's a little different. You're granted special dispensation to travel to Mournhold in spite of the quarantine, so you have a valid excuse for being there. And they recognise you as Nerevarine presumably because you introduce yourself as such, and match some sort of word-of-mouth description. I don't think they're broadcasting your photo on the Morrowind Evening News!

[Thrignar Fraxix]

just to be clear, allowing the player to be named hortator and nerevarine by the mainland factions would mess with the main quest, and thus lies outside the scope of this mod. The whole 9 divines thing isn't going to happen as the dunmer would never convert to the IC on any large scale. (plus the IC is one of the most boring factions ever)

[Akul]

That's a little different. You're granted special dispensation to travel to Mournhold in spite of the quarantine, so you have a valid excuse for being there. And they recognise you as Nerevarine presumably because you introduce yourself as such, and match some sort of word-of-mouth description. I don't think they're broadcasting your photo on the Morrowind Evening News!

I don't htink that King Helseth yelled on Plaza Brindisi Dorom that Nerevearine is coming. I can't imagine Temple doing the same.
When Nereveraine arrives somewhere, slowly everyone starts noticing him because there are always people who know how he looks and who now his PC-name.

Also, the quarantine ain't 100% hard. People like Vodunius Nuncius, guys from Soltsheim, dunmers in Mournhold who got out of Vvardanfel and others openly talk about leaving the quarantine.

just to be clear, allowing the player to be named hortator and nerevarine by the mainland factions would mess with the main quest, and thus lies outside the scope of this mod. The whole 9 divines thing isn't going to happen as the dunmer would never convert to the IC on any large scale. (plus the IC is one of the most boring factions ever)

The TR MQ or MW MQ?
You can't blame me for not taking the TR MQ's into account and the MW MQ would need to be completed anyway.
And, through sources in OB lore, we know that dunmer did convert on large scale.
In any way, I never said that there should be large convertings. 2 or 3 people per town are enough.

And fun of IC questline depends on the questmaker.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

The morrowind main quest. In order to not interfere with the original game we can't have anything happen on the main land that would affect vvardenfel. Having the player capable of being named hortator and nerevarine by mainland tribes and houses would mean that we would have to alter the main quest from vanilla morrowind.

I don't remember hearing about large scale conversions in morrowind province in my playing of Oblivion. If they did take place they wouldn't occur within morrowind's timeline, it would happen a few years after the events probably following the restructuring of the temple following vivec's departure and the death of the others.

Final note: lol OB lore... (ignore this line)

[Akul]

The morrowind main quest. In order to not interfere with the original game we can't have anything happen on the main land that would affect vvardenfel. Having the player capable of being named hortator and nerevarine by mainland tribes and houses would mean that we would have to alter the main quest from vanilla morrowind.

I don't see how this could interfere with the MW MQ. Thiese namings would be optional and just quests that require the MW MQ to be completed. They ain't there to save Morrowind but to feed the ambition of some players.

I don't remember hearing about large scale conversions in morrowind province in my playing of Oblivion. If they did take place they wouldn't occur within morrowind's timeline, it would happen a few years after the events probably following the restructuring of the temple following vivec's departure and the death of the others.

Again, I NEVER talked about large scale conversions, but small ones, probably just in Hlaalu disctrict where the conversions were fastest (when the "Short life of Uriel Septim" was written, Vvardanfel and Hlaalu district were strongly established). Since altering Vvardanfel is out of question, we don't touch it. Since 2 or 3 years ain't enough to converse Hlaalu district, the conversions started the second after Almalexia died.

[Akul]

And they recognise you as Nerevarine presumably because you introduce yourself as such, and match some sort of word-of-mouth description. I don't think they're broadcasting your photo on the Morrowind Evening News!

Just now read this part. Somebody needed the PC so I forgot to read it till the end. Sorry...

Simply coming to Mournhold and representing yourself as such makes your appearance known. People ain't staying in just one city as it looks like. Once you arrive in another city, someone who has seen you shall tell the others: "You know that Altmer in golden robe that was here yesterday? Well, thats Nerevearine!"

[gro-Dhal]

Since altering Vvardanfel is out of question, we don't touch it. Since 2 or 3 years ain't enough to converse Hlaalu district, the conversions started the second after Almalexia died.

Even if that did happen as quickly as you say -which seems very unlikely- I think it would be impossible to implement in a satisfying manner. New temples wouldn't and couldn't be built overnight, but even a month or two is longer than most players will carry on after completing the main quest. And I can't see the Tribunal Temple throwing up their hands and handing over THEIR buildings for use. Maybe a few more missionaries or Dunmer converts could appear in the streets though.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

it interferes with the vanilla MQ in that by giving the player more options, we make some of the options unneccesary. If we were to allow such a thing it would have to come AFTER the player already had the support of the 3 vvard houses or 4 ashlander tribes. If the player has already been named hortator/nerevarine, then there isn't really a point, and it would be illogical for the player to try and be named hortator/nerevarine by the remaining houses and tribes when there is a "pressing threat from dagoth ur that requires immediate attention." Doing it after dagoth ur is dead would just be wierd and non-sensical.

[gro-Dhal]

TBH I don't really see it as being about getting a majority vote from the Houses or Tribes. Rather the Hortator/Nerevarine thing is about rallying Vvardenfell behind you. Otherwise it's pretty fortuitous that just enough Houses and Tribes are represented on the island. I know, prophecy and all that, but still...

[Jedak]

And fun of IC questline depends on the questmaker.

Exactly

[Hemitheon]

What if House Indoril and House Dres had named someone else Hortator? The player can't kill him because then he'd never be named but if he doesn't kill him he still doesn't get named. It's a Catch 22.

Personally I don't see House Indoril naming anyone Hortator. And even if the Temple was behind the Nerevarine that doesn't necessarily mean Indoril will follow. After the PC brings an end to Almsivi, noone is willing to believe it even after the temple priests say it's time to bring back the old pantheon. A million bucks says House Indoril is still worshipping Almsivi by the time of the Oblivion Crisis.

[Haplo]

I'd say we go through and add this stuff/dialogue to each map after quests are made.

Uh if there are exiled ashlanders (doesn't matter if they are self-exiled or excommunicated) on the mainland that's okay with me.

House reactions to the MQ... Uh, well obviously Hlaalu Telvanni and Redoran should have to be okay with it. Right? Or are we doing that whole 'no that was the Vvardenfell branch' thing?

And uh... Dres should be like 'okay well if you can give us slaves or Imperials (just as good) we'll call you Hortator. If not we'll just throw some spears at you'. Indoril should be mad at you 'cause you rained on their parade and killed their gods, (at least one of them... although two at least and most likely all 3 will be dead) and that made them kind of useless. So I guess than can just not like you, but want to keep face and not rescind their naming of Hortatorshipness. (which is totally a word)

[Jedak]

We can't just say, thats a Vvardenfell branch thing, because its just silly. Its a nation.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

thats why I said the ML hierarchy would say to go ask the local branch. Haplo's post was made without him actually reading the thread and thus should be disregarded for the most part.

[Haplo]

Except I totally agreed with what you said in my post.

[Jedak]

But the mainland heirachy would have to lend its help at least in some way.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

Except I totally agreed with what you said in my post.

No you didn't, I said the mainland houses wouldn't name the player as hortator. You pretty much said the exact opposite of what I said.

But the mainland heirachy would have to lend its help at least in some way.

not neccesarily, I think they should just tell the player that in the council of "long time ago and different for each house" they decided that the vvardenfel branch would handle all items relating to the nerevarine prophecies.

[Haplo]

No, you said Indoril and Dres shouldn't say yes, and so did I. You said Hlaalu, Redoran, and Telvanni should defer the matter to Vvardenfell branches, which means whatever the Vvardenfell branches say is what they go with. So basically you said that Hlaalu, Redoran, and Telvanni say yes, because that's what the Vvardenfell branches say. I said Hlaalu, Redoran, and Telvanni say yes. If we both say the same thing, that means we agree.

[Jedak]

Can you two stop bitching at each other? I keep on seeing little arguments and fight between the two of you spurring up.

Thank god that only two of the admins are fighting...

[Sload]

TBH I don't really see it as being about getting a majority vote from the Houses or Tribes. Rather the Hortator/Nerevarine thing is about rallying Vvardenfell behind you. Otherwise it's pretty fortuitous that just enough Houses and Tribes are represented on the island. I know, prophecy and all that, but still...

I'm not participating in this discussion, but this is the best position for us to take.

Also, Haplo mentioned Vivec dying. This isn't important because it happens after TR's timeline, but Vivec technically does rather the opposite of dying.

[Haplo]

I mention the player killing Vivec, which wouldn't happen after TR's time line, but either before or during. But that's not important.

Jedak - Those are our nice faces

[Thrignar Fraxix]

I mention the player killing Vivec, which wouldn't happen after TR's time line, but either before or during. But that's not important.

Wrong. TR's time line is parallel to the events of the vanilla game. I explained this last night, and I will not explain it again.

edit: also, the whole idea of the MW MQ only having to deal with vvardenfel is growing on me.

[Sload]

I mention the player killing Vivec, which wouldn't happen after TR's time line, but either before or during. But that's not important.

But according to lore Vivec facefucked Azura and then disappeared at Hogithum Hall.

But that's not important.

And it turns out, neither is this. The Nerevarine shit was symbolically rallying Vvardenfell behind you. Woohoo.

[Jedak]

Jedak - Those are our nice faces

Thats my point