The Scumcase -Now with models!

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:51 am

Thought I'd showcase some stuff too. Not only pics irrelevant to HF or MW, but some of my skills in the CS as well. So, the first things I'm showcasing are 6 images and a small quest mod for Oblivion, packed with a Readme and everything. Enjoy

[url=http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=candle1ag0.jpg][img]http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2010/candle1ag0.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=djiinbluec1gz1.jpg][img]http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/6528/djiinbluec1gz1.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=djiinredc1mn8.jpg][img]http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/4725/djiinredc1mn8.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dunmergirl2xs2.jpg][img]http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/3390/dunmergirl2xs2.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=treeupcf9.jpg][img]http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/159/treeupcf9.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heart2fl3.jpg][img]http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7239/heart2fl3.th.jpg[/img][/url]

angelus6 · Post by **angelus6** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:29 am

I'd love to take a look at the .esp and whatnot and i will do but i could do with knowing what you naming conventions etc are and if its playble ingame then where is everything and what do i do to trigger the quest

good to see you back and active scummy.

Nanu · Post by **Nanu** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:28 pm

Ooh, Scummy can mod!

I'll have to look at this when I get home.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:32 pm

Angelus: Thanks! It's fully playable, almost enjoyable! As I said, a Readme is included, anything you need to know is there. As for the CS, everything that concerns this esp begins with TFP (minus 3-4 dialogue topics, but these are used in all the questline so you can't miss them).

Nanu: You bet I can

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:48 pm

All this time and only 1 person has bothered to check this? C'mon guys...

Kikaimegami · Post by **Kikaimegami** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:52 pm

I love that picture with the sun through the leaves

Those elemental guys are pretty damn awesome, too.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:17 am

I didn't even know you'd made a new showcase... you need to do more shameless self-promoting

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:49 pm

Yeah, I'm a little shy when it comes to self-promotion! Anyway, what I actually aimed at was for you guys to dl the quest mod and play through it, so that I can get into NPCs/ints/quests later in the Oblivion engine. Now I get how our showcasers feel!

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:51 am

A recent work, unrelated to HF thus posted here.

[url=http://img260.imageshack.us/my.php?image=compassmc1.jpg][img]http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/9198/compassmc1.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Orix · Post by **Orix** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:41 am

You're picking up modelling? Cool! What program are you using?

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:44 am

??? What makes you say I'm modelling?

Orix · Post by **Orix** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:51 am

The... I... well, the picture looks like it uses 3D light, so I jumped to conclusions

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:58 am

That's an honor, for sure! No, the image was entirely created in Photoshop, I just used some flashy pseudo-renders and filters to achieve the result. Glad it's looking that good.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:10 pm

Part of a cheap/wooden clutter set I made. If you feel it can be used, tell me and I'll make more pieces.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:14 pm

Hey, you just have uploaded a maxscene made with max version 9 or above. The point is, almost noone here can take a look at it

Use nif or .3ds if you have max please.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:10 pm

Damn, you're right. I'll reupload it as .obj tonight. Aro, I'll need your valuable experience in the NIF conversion thing and some other stuff, given you'll find some time to talk through msn.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:35 pm

Sure, no problem

And as I said .3ds and nifs would be better from my point of view than a .obj

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:45 pm

My bad, I exported the models in .obj, but tested them and they work fine in both max 9 and 8. They're not much, I can do much more complicated models, but I'd prefer you to give me something of your choice to model. Also, I need you to tell me where do I see the polycount, because when I go to Object Properties I can only see facecount and another blahblahblahcount.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:25 pm

facecount is what you need. make sure that your faces are triangles though, otherwise this count will not be representative of the final polycound number.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:59 pm

Sometimes the objs get wild, that's all. And honestly, I was always an enemy of looking at the polycount. I never do it. In max, go to File->Summary info to check the polycount. What matters is too keep the shape efficient. The main rule is, don't use polies that do not add any detail in the final effect or will be never visible(which is quite equal to no.1).

These are just some small cups, right? Lemme give a fast touch on this and share with you with the effect.

Dang, that's why I prefer 3ds and nifs, I can't get it back into a easily modifyable editable poly. Anyway, I remodelled the first mesh to let you know how it should be done, just compare these two, and you'll see the difference

What was I about to say... Aah, you wanted to model something. Sure. Hahah, I could give you your owns concepts to model out

And your work was always modeller-friendly if you didn't know. But instead, I'll give ya some Elfanes work to choose from. All of them are useable, so feel free to choose what suits you.
[url=http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/CA/plantlifego8.jpg][img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/CA/th_plantlifego8.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/CA/plantife3iw9.jpg][img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/CA/th_plantife3iw9.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/CA/planter2lv3.jpg][img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/CA/th_planter2lv3.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/CA/complation2fv6.jpg][img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/CA/th_complation2fv6.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/CA/clutter1wp8.jpg][img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/CA/th_clutter1wp8.jpg[/img][/url]

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:50 pm

Here are my attempts. First of all, Jellew's plant, the closed version. I think the leaves that run along the plant are done by adding an alpha-channeled texture on a thin surface, but I'm unfamiliar with texturing so this is what I came up with. Aro, I need you to tell me how to combine separate objects into a single model (group isn't the way to go, for that I'm sure).

Also, I thought a carriage would be cool to have, so here's an attempt. I made two versions, one with seats and one without. I'm anxiously waiting for feedback and advice.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:26 am

Props on putting this into the nif file

That's an important step. And now some constructive critisizm...
Flower. Well, first of all, it's ok you want to make a use of polies here

So, now that you have them on this plant make more use of it. I mean all the parts of the flower are just round pieces and the concept shows something different. Take for example the top part... It shouldn't be just round(it's 3AM and I have problems with finding the right words...). It should be visible on the mesh that this has hexagonal shape with rounded up segments.

The carriage has some major mistakes. It's about the polies. If you have a plane (flat) rectangular shape(like the sides of your carragie), it should use two polies, not 72(yes I counted them). That means, for a flat shape go with 4 connected vertices, not a net of polies. You made that mistake on many of the meshes used on the carriage.

If you use the editable poly, the way to put together meshes is like this... Go to the edit geometry rollout, choose attach and select the meshes you want to combine with the current one. Grouping meshes helps you organizing the scene and is very useful though.

Overall, thumbs up.

Jelle · Post by **Jelle** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:32 am

El Scumbago wrote:Here are my attempts. First of all, Jellew's plant, the closed version.

itÃ‚Â´s ElfaneÃ‚Â´s plant, not mine

. I draw much more crappy.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:45 am

Thanks a lot Aro, it's great to hear that I'm getting better.
About the plant, I only used splines and some edit poly, just for some vertex moving. Making the seed hexagonal is easy, I can just reduce the segments to 6, but I've no idea how to make them round.
About the carriage, I don't know which parts you're talking about, but the upper part was made with a spline and loft, so it may added as many vertices as it liked.
I'd like to ask for a favor. Could you take the plant and the carriage as examples and write instructions as to how you would make them? It'd be very useful to have as a guide and reference for other models. I know it may be boring, but it would improve my speed and efficiency a lot. Even a "how to make a mug for TESIV" would be very helpful.
And here's a couple more models, just for kicks. The first one is an argiles (or whatever it's called in English) and the other's a set of scimitars (2 long, 1 short).

Jellew: Perhaps, but you model much better

Orix · Post by **Orix** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:26 pm

Loving the hookha/shisha/hubba bubba etc. ^_^

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:50 pm

Well... The hookah is way to high poly in many places... You need to catch the right feel for polies. Take a precise look at vanilla meshes. Analize them a bit. The scimitar is already quite nice when it comes to polies, though I don't like that design

I don't know why are you still playing with all that splines stuff... Game design has it's own rules which you refuse to accept. Almost in each case you start with a primitive shape. Like a box or a cylinder, you convert it to an editable poly or apply it some boolean operations to it and keep working on the editable poly. 3d studio max has implememented tutorials for game design(Basically max has a lot of tutorials, user guides and reference materials, all accesable through the help menu). Take a look at them please. They explain very good how to work with an editable poly. Anyway, I gave a try to the flower to show you some basic moves.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:05 am

Because splines are easy to work with. I know where the tuts are. I'll try to see what they can offer.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:00 pm

Heh, if you ask me, the editable poly is easy to work on

If you can work with splines, you can surely work with them too. Have fun with it.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:20 pm

The only tutorials that actually are about game design are the toy spacecraft and neighborhood ones. Rather easy, I admit. Do these techniques apply to Oblivion modelling as well? In the end of the toy spacecraft tutorial, the guy who wrote it suggests that a final modifier is added (can't remember the name) which smooths the model a lot. Is that how smoothing should work for Oblivion?

Two many questions again, I know. I'll make something based on these techniques and upload it for you to check when you have some spare time Aro. I hope you're not getting fed up already!

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:53 pm

I use those techniques, so I guess they apply for oblivion

be also sure to try out "Modeling a Low-Poly Character" tut. It is also a reference for game design. Hmm, yea, sometimes I make a use of smoothing modifiers(I use the msmooth accesable through the editable poly stack), though I prefer the chamfer tool in most cases. It is more precise. That neighbourhood tutorial isn't really important, unless you want to get into mapping and vertex coloring

Vertex coloring is one of the most enjoying parts of modelling, and it works for oblivion.

And yea, I sure have time for anyone that is dedicated to do some models for TR

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:14 pm

Watch what you say, because I require lots of time! Anyway, here's something I made the low-poly way. I used a box, shaped as a plank and begun building the boat from bottom to top. To give it the interior, I selected the flat, top polygon of the boat and used inset. If you try to smooth it with mssmooth you'll notice some weird things going on, but tesselate does a nice job.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:04 pm

Woo!

I can't find anything wrong on that model

Really. Keep it up, you can make this one more funky by adding whatever detail you like to it, or give a try to something new.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:35 am

You're starting to get a feel for low poly design.

Good work. Just remember that if it was meant to be an canoe-type boat you would have to include backfaces, so that you can't see through the model.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:27 am

It feels great to hear that from you guys

Aro, select the model and apply mssmooth, that's guaranteed to reveal a mistake. It has something to do with the inner side of the boat, but I'm not sure what it is exactly.

If you can point out the cause of the problem I mention, I'll work on the boat some more. I was thinking of linking it to another one, expand their "tails" to form a mast and add a sail there. Or just make that fishing boat from one of my previous concepts.

Nah, I'll just practice some more. Btw, those scimitars where alright iirc, their problem was that they weren't nice enough, right?

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:48 am

The scimittars wouldn't fit to the gameworld, but the meshes were okay.

Well, first of all, some of the advantages of editable polies are lost with export to the nif format. So, when I import back a nif, and convert it to an editable poly it isn't so functional as it was before.

I imported back your boat anyway, applied the msmooth and got some holes in some parts as a results. I don't know if it's the same errorr you have experienced though. This one is caused by polies falling out of the structure. They aren't connected anymore. They are build on seperate vertices, even though some of them have exact the same coordinates. To fix that, you select the vertices that are in the same place, and collapse them (the collapse function is aviable from the edit geometry rollout).

A good thing to note for the future to save you some boring fixes... Go to the editable poly -> polygon -> polygon properties -> clear all smoothing groups and then select all faces with ctrl + a and apply smoothing group 1 to them. This makes all faces smooth out eachother, and later on, prevents polies from falling out of the structure with exporting to the nif format

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:34 pm

That's not the error I got, but I didn't try to apply mssmooth in the .nif version of the boat. Thanks for the tips, although I admit I still haven't figured how to model Elfane's plant true to the concept. I'll figure it out, what the heck?

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:48 am

Hmm, there was a sentence somewhere, it sounded like "practice makes the master" or smth

Have fun. Ever tried the modelling a chess set tutorial? It is included too, a classic. Modeling an airplane is also good(suited for training game design). I think the modeling an apple is already behind you

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:00 am

The chess set was the very first I tried, but it was mostly about splines. I still haven't tried the airplane, although I want to.