A word from the fans

Simuran · Post by **Simuran** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:29 am

Dear developers of Tamriel's Rebuilt!
First of all, I would like to express my respect. When I saw your work for the first time, I was very impressed. And since then my admiration of your work has not decreased. Undoubtedly, TR will be one of the best Morrowind mods in the world. But, at the same time, one circumstance has extremely upset me. Looking through your forum, I have found out that you have decided to refuse the original architecture of Great House Dres presented on the screenshots of Map 6, and to use usual velothi architecture. Please, think: whether it is final you are assured of the decision? For me, as well as for many other people with whom I spoke, it would be much more pleasant to see the original architecture. Four other Great Houses have their own architectural style and it would be at least strange if Dres wouldn't have one. I hope, you will consider the opinion of the fans of the game.

Post by **Gnomey** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:45 am

I do not know what the official view on a unique set is, but I can tell you this much: The old set is not being used for at least two reasons. One is that a lot of people didn't, and still don't, like the style. The other is that the meshes had a lot of errors. For this reason the core decided to replace the Dres models with Velothi models. Now the problem is that as every single Dres building was replaced by Velothi, replacing everything again with a different set would be too much trouble.

However, this is not to say that there won't be a unique set for House Dres. The possibilities of a set following Velothi dimensions or a retexture have been discussed, at length. The best suggestion that I heard was to wait until we got to map six, (the Dres map), and then decide. Finally, though I do say this much with some certainty, I could be wrong. I'm not a core member after all.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:43 pm

Gnomey has it right, though why the errors couldn't be fixed IDK. I too like the old style much much better.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:35 pm

Don't let nostalgia cloud your judgment. The set was sub-par in almost every way. There are no interiors, the meshes are rife with errors and extra polygons, and the design does not match Morrowind in any way. Furthermore, the textures were very low quality and the set was missing many essential pieces.. such as adequate doors and windows. The ones provided were very poorly designed. These aren't errors you fix in an afternoon... what you do is either abandon the set or design a new one from the ground up. Seeing as how we don't have the manpower to even finish the poorly modeled Necrom set, we'll have to make do with Beth's meshes for house Dres.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:00 pm

Whats the deal with Necrom anyway?

Simuran · Post by **Simuran** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:37 pm

As far as I know, the problem is not in your position, but in the shortage of 3d modellers? I had a talk with some people I know, and somebody was interrested. I think, if you will agree, they would do the models, and the project would have the new tileset

As a standard they did a few models already (see the screenshots). If you are interested, they can do the job. How does it sound?

[url]http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dresmodel5ma2.jpg[/url]
[url]http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dresmodel4my5.jpg[/url]
[url]http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dresmodel3ot0.jpg[/url]
[url]http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dresmodel2mr4.jpg[/url]
[url]http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dresmodel1wi9.jpg[/url]

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:47 pm

we are not going to replace the set AGAIN. the dres set dosent fit with the other morrowind sets for one thing. if the modelers would like to help us out, there are several much more imporant things they could do for maps that will be released much sooner then map6. like some necrom meshes and dunmeth pass probably...not to mention all of hammerfell

i do appreciate your concern and love for the dres set, but we decided agains using it. the only way that i would be posible to reverse that desision now is if the meshes matches velothy in most dimentions, to make replacement easier, and looked much more MW. if you want to do that, i encurage your freinds to join TR so that we can reach a final desision on this subject and perhaps make a dres set that we can all agree on.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:51 am

a mod for TR could always be made- if enough people are that much in love with the old look.

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:49 pm

To sum up the situation from my viewpoint:

I personally was not fond of Dres design neither, but IF THERE WAS A DRES SET and majority of people liked it, I would have to respect the reality and use it if I worked on Dres cities. (I dislike Telvanni set much more then Dres, BTW).

I redid Corkarath Rhun in Velothi, but IF THERE WAS A DRES SET available and people wanted to return to the original design or redo the city, I would have to agree if only for bigger variety of the game environment.

But what to do! There simply is NO DRES SET. There are only few pretentious screenshots of empty shells, merely a ghosts of meshes and I doubt there will ever be something like the Dres Set.

I have just counted the Velothi meshes (including Vivec) and there are 90 exterior ones (16 houses and then there are walls, bridges, cantons, towers, doors, windows, doorjams, foundations, spouts...) and about 185 interior ones (corridors, pits, domes, halls, stairways, columns... all very modular).

The houses you show, Simuran look nice, but MUCH more would bee needed to create a beliavable Dres environment. If there WOULD BE a Dres set, we could consider the possibility of using it.

But so far the best solution is just to remove old screenies from the mainpage to stop confusing visitors and I am sure nobody will ever miss Dres again.

But as Lady said, the majority here would not even agree with the first two paragraphs of this post.

Lonewolf · Post by **Lonewolf** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:12 pm

It's not impossible to create a new tileset. The work just needs to be well-organised and the forces of the 3d modellers should be absolutely concentrated on the creation of the set. But the first thing to be done is the concept of the architecture.
Determination beats all.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:36 pm

Lonewolf wrote:The work just needs to be well-organised and the forces of the 3d modellers should be absolutely concentrated on the creation of the set.

We have several more important things for our modelors to be working on ATM. Map 6 is still a long way off.

Theo wrote:But so far the best solution is just to remove old screenies from the mainpage to stop confusing visitors

why the hell was this not done 3 years ago? (I would do it myself but I don't have time and I don't know how)

Nanu · Post by **Nanu** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:59 pm

That's your Screenshot Managment link at the top of the page. I'd do it, but I'd delete things that needed to stay, I'm sure.

Jelle · Post by **Jelle** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:27 pm

I have enough time to work on a set, I dont see how we possibly dont have the manpower to make such a set, Im now modelling 2 GM claims and I think that I will have those finished soon. After I did that, I can begin working on that set and another GM mclaim. Aro is now away and he has some claims open, but I dont know if he wants to work on that set.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:31 pm

rather than make architecture for a map that we probably won't get to for a few years, it is, IMO, a better use of your time to find something else for goldmoor/helkori to model.

Lonewolf · Post by **Lonewolf** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:34 pm

It's better to make it before the creation of the interiors/exteriors. Otherwise, it will be even more difficult to replace the standart models.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:48 pm

exteriors are still WIP, production has halted on them for the most part. (well mine has) Interiors won't be up for years.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:18 pm

Could Jellew work on Necrom?

EDIT: And Thrig, quit it with the constant avatar mutation. I'm still stuck thinking about the guy with the flute/thing.

Post by **Haplo** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:16 am

Thrignar Fraxix wrote:
Theo wrote:But so far the best solution is just to remove old screenies from the mainpage to stop confusing visitors
why the hell was this not done 3 years ago? (I would do it myself but I don't have time and I don't know how)

Done.

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:40 pm

Haplo, we now lake a bit of pics of map6, i have a complete collection, PM me if you need some.

Simuran · Post by **Simuran** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:32 pm

Dear developers of Tamriel Rebuilt!

I have already addressed you with this offer, but you rejected it. Now, when the second map is almost complete, I will try again.
Your project is not just a simple recreation of Morrowind’s continental territory. It is also an attempt to pass its glorious atmosphere. Thanks to the atmosphere and the LORE, the Elder Scrolls series have won the hearts of millions of fans from all across the world. An integral part of each culture is the architecture, created by its people. And the dunmer architecture is loved by millions of players. The exact and beautiful homes of House Hlaalu, the rough roofs of the Indoril buildings, the mushroom towers of House Telvanni, the shape of the Redoran houses – the developers of Bethesda have made everything sure. Except one thing – the architecture of House Dres.
On the first screenshots of the south-eastern regions of Morrowind I could clearly see that your team has worked hard on the dark-elven architecture. I must say that this architecture really suits House Dres – the House of the cunning, conservative dunmers. But then you have refused using these models. I understand that all projects have their fortunes and misfortunes. But I can’t understand it. You have the possibility to create new models, but you don’t want to do it. I am sure, every ES fan will tell you that House Dres needs its own architecture. It may halt the project for some time, but it will make the add-on closer to perfection, closer to the way Bethesda would have made it.
I’m really asking you – do what is right.

With respect, Simuran.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:10 pm

If TR was to make House Dres specific architecture (which I reckon it will one day) every mesh will need to be the same dimensions as every mesh in the Velothi tileset.

I have a concept art thread where I started to try and come up with a new building style for House Dres. If you want to look at it, its in the Concept Art forum. It needs some changes to make it better, though.

Strangely I have given more thought to the interior tileset, which is why I stopped coming up with exterior concepts or making changes to them.

BTW: The old architecture set was crap and had parts of physical impossibility and sci-fi crappiness. Don't compliment it.

Lonewolf · Post by **Lonewolf** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:44 am

I wonder what would Bethesda's version of House Dres architecture look like... Im sure it wouldn't be velothi. That set is already as used up as it can be. Though the interiors are great and easy to use. Perhaps they could be edited and retextured like Necrom.
I know that people like Hlaalu architecture and that many people join the house because of it. They like the atmosphere of the Hlaalu towns. If Dres wouldn't have it's own style, it wouldn't be a "correct" great house. Every house has it, and Dres will look unfinished or incorrect. Velothi is already used in so many places. And vivec-like cantons in Tear? It will make the place a second Vivec. Its totally wrong.
Is it really that hard to replace some houses? Dres don't have that much towns, much of them are still incomplete, there are no interiors and the velothi set is easy to replace, unlike the telvanni set, where each part depends on the other. There are not many exteriors left to be claimed. There are many exterior modders, concept artists and 3d modellers, capable of handling the job.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:05 pm

There aren't just the towns which have been painstakingly replaced with Velothi architecture, but there are also the plantations and the current claims too. It would be a lot of work to replace everything again, so that is why the Dres set at the least needs to be made in the same footprints as the Velothi. The architecture can be as different from Velothi as logicially possible, but they have to be the same dimensions.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:08 pm

I thought that slave /holdings buildings or lower class building could be made of carcasses of dead giant insects. A little bit like redoran architecture.

Lonewolf · Post by **Lonewolf** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:51 pm

I thought that slave /holdings buildings or lower class building could be made of carcasses of dead giant insects. A little bit like redoran architecture.

I remember a comic about TES, where a Dres plantation was shown. Yeah, its true, the houses were dead insect carcases. But I don't think that nobles would use them as homes. They are small in size and a bit uncomfortable. I think that the architecture of House Dres is somewhat similar to this [url=http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/8936/architectureheroes3swamrg2.jpg](link)[/url].

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:29 am

What is your guys's problem with velothi? I'm not gonna lie, its the absolute best architecture set in the game and its woefully underused. Its not as exotic as Redoran or Telvanni, but it is incredibly versatile, giving it a huge number of unexplored posibilities.

[url=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/SlavePens2.jpg]Look at this slave market from Balsan Mar.[/url] Its among the most creatively designed buildings in the mod, in my opinion.

I also don't understand what you like about the old Dres set. Beyond being horribly unfinished, it didn't fit at all with its weird color palette and often impossible shapes.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:24 am

That's why the best Dres set for us would be a set of all the Velothi (and Vivec, by the looks of that screenie) set pieces re-texed and with slight mesh changes, ÃƒÂ¡ la Nomadic's concept art.

Akul · Post by **Akul** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:16 pm

I hate the old Dres set, but I disagree with the Velothi idea. Yes, it is underused... but Velothi =/= Dres.
Dres arhitecture should (IMO) be:
-Dark, with similiarities with Daedric arhitecture.
-Beautiful, but not really a place where you would like to live.

But I don't think that there should be such a big discussion about this. Map6 is still 3 or 4 year till finishing (non-user's predictement) and I perhaps someone will come up with something.

Simuran · Post by **Simuran** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:12 pm

Dear developers of Tamriel Rebuilt!
Thank you for your attention to my questions about House Dres. I have another question. After I looked at the screenshots of Blacklight, I was surprised to see that it was made in some strange style. It's size was also surprising. Wouldn't it be more logical and LORE-wise to make this city in the imperial style with some possible elements of redoran architecture? Thank you for the answer.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:27 pm

blacklight has long been redone in velothi architecture. its also 200% cooler now

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:41 pm

There's nothing Imperial about Blacklight except the bullshit Rodan made up.

Post by **Gnomey** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:11 pm

As for an explanation: Blacklight is the former capital of House Redoran, which was moved to Ald-ruhn by Venim. It makes no sense to give it an Imperial tileset.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:24 pm

What would Blacklight translated to Dunmer be?

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:47 pm

Balahn Muhrsin