Elinhir rebel and Helgathe decide to join. Taneth fights back and Rihad barricades, not knowing which side to join. Gilane does nothing and doesn't side thus getting attacked by Elinhir and Helgathe and losing miserably causing Rihad to contemplate joining the Forebears.
Am I right or am I completly F'ed up?
Initial MQ Discusion (Continue in Pinned Thread)
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Lady Nerevar
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well, most of the reason its F'ed up is because you got the alinances all wrong.
im totaly down with what sloads be saying, cause i love him too. i think the fact that everyone is doing what they think is best and have their own moral justifications is important. no black/whiteness for heavens sake.
question though, why is Ayaan-Si Ra Pashat instead of Utei? it has something to do with the "High Prophet Of Elinhir" thing right?
im totaly down with what sloads be saying, cause i love him too. i think the fact that everyone is doing what they think is best and have their own moral justifications is important. no black/whiteness for heavens sake.
question though, why is Ayaan-Si Ra Pashat instead of Utei? it has something to do with the "High Prophet Of Elinhir" thing right?
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Harke the Apostle
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no i just want the leaders to act.
three examples, the first and third already happened:
-small event: Taneth bans Yoku worship in the city.
-big event: Eno Mareth sends an assassin after Fassi d'Akkaten
-supersize event: Skaven capture No-Totambu from Sentinel
three examples, the first and third already happened:
-small event: Taneth bans Yoku worship in the city.
-big event: Eno Mareth sends an assassin after Fassi d'Akkaten
-supersize event: Skaven capture No-Totambu from Sentinel
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Harke the Apostle
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[edit: never mind the names and particulars here]
In an attempt to reconcile Forebears and Crowns, Lhotun has organized a wedding between Leela (daughter of Raha) Treigo and Raoul (son of Mañei) Ei-Shom.
The wedding took take place in Skaven.
There had been some unrest between the two sides and Yaswa Ei-Azel never approved of the union.
Three days after the wedding ceremony, R'anchi, a commander of Clavilla's guard was nearly assinated by an unknown assasin.
What ensued was a terrible bloodbath between the representatives of the Forebears and the Crowns (which included the citizens of Skaven).
Almost all of the Forebears except Leela and Raha Treigo and their immediate bodyguards get slaughtered.
After the massacre Raha Treigo returns home, and Leela stays with her husband (as a sort of hostage).
Lothun tries to stop the impending civil war by appointing an independent adventurer to find out the truth about the assisination...
The MQ consists of finding out who would have plotted the assasination (and the prior rallying of the people of Skaven) and who would have instigated the assasination.
There are several options:
- 1) The Forebears wanted to kill R'anchi, and don't have any right to be indignant over the massacre.
- 2) The Crowns (excepting Mañei Ei-Shom), planned the bloodbath.
- 3) The Lothunics plotted to have the Forebears and Crowns Fight each other all along, while making it look like they were trying to keep the peace. The adventurer is merely employed to let them off the hook. At a certain point in time they plan to assasinate the adventurer.
At the end of the MQ the adventurer has to testify his findings before a makeshift court of law. Of course, when the baddy is exposed they and his/her minions will attack the adventurer.
In an attempt to reconcile Forebears and Crowns, Lhotun has organized a wedding between Leela (daughter of Raha) Treigo and Raoul (son of Mañei) Ei-Shom.
The wedding took take place in Skaven.
There had been some unrest between the two sides and Yaswa Ei-Azel never approved of the union.
Three days after the wedding ceremony, R'anchi, a commander of Clavilla's guard was nearly assinated by an unknown assasin.
What ensued was a terrible bloodbath between the representatives of the Forebears and the Crowns (which included the citizens of Skaven).
Almost all of the Forebears except Leela and Raha Treigo and their immediate bodyguards get slaughtered.
After the massacre Raha Treigo returns home, and Leela stays with her husband (as a sort of hostage).
Lothun tries to stop the impending civil war by appointing an independent adventurer to find out the truth about the assisination...
The MQ consists of finding out who would have plotted the assasination (and the prior rallying of the people of Skaven) and who would have instigated the assasination.
There are several options:
- 1) The Forebears wanted to kill R'anchi, and don't have any right to be indignant over the massacre.
- 2) The Crowns (excepting Mañei Ei-Shom), planned the bloodbath.
- 3) The Lothunics plotted to have the Forebears and Crowns Fight each other all along, while making it look like they were trying to keep the peace. The adventurer is merely employed to let them off the hook. At a certain point in time they plan to assasinate the adventurer.
At the end of the MQ the adventurer has to testify his findings before a makeshift court of law. Of course, when the baddy is exposed they and his/her minions will attack the adventurer.
Nooo.
Like events from there are good.
But noooooo.
Here's how the mainquest works:
At the beginning of the quest, there are a lot of random things the player can do. The player does some, canceling out some of the others and opening new opportunities for the player. As it goes on, it forms a narrative of events which are largely driven by which quests the player choses to do. Its not about a particular event.
And at the end Hammerfell is changed.
One thing to keep in mind is that the player is not the hero of this story. To quote Zurin Arctus, "Every event is preceded by a prophecy, but without the Hero there is no event." The player is the Hero of the Oblivion Crisis. In Hammerfell he's just a dude. He's not the next Cyrus or the next Gaiden Shinji, he won't be a folk hero of Hammerfell in the future. And this is the first time the player is going to experience that, every real game the player becomes incredibly important. However, this insignificance gives him more freedom to do whatever, and because we don't have to follow canon with what happens in TES V, the unimportant player makes way more important decisions than he ever did as the "Hero."
And also. I'd recommend not reading too much into the idea of the Lhotunics as a separate faction in and of themselves. Its sorta one of those things we exaggerated from the PGE and ran with, like how we thought Satakalaam was illegal.
Like events from there are good.
But noooooo.
Here's how the mainquest works:
At the beginning of the quest, there are a lot of random things the player can do. The player does some, canceling out some of the others and opening new opportunities for the player. As it goes on, it forms a narrative of events which are largely driven by which quests the player choses to do. Its not about a particular event.
And at the end Hammerfell is changed.
One thing to keep in mind is that the player is not the hero of this story. To quote Zurin Arctus, "Every event is preceded by a prophecy, but without the Hero there is no event." The player is the Hero of the Oblivion Crisis. In Hammerfell he's just a dude. He's not the next Cyrus or the next Gaiden Shinji, he won't be a folk hero of Hammerfell in the future. And this is the first time the player is going to experience that, every real game the player becomes incredibly important. However, this insignificance gives him more freedom to do whatever, and because we don't have to follow canon with what happens in TES V, the unimportant player makes way more important decisions than he ever did as the "Hero."
And also. I'd recommend not reading too much into the idea of the Lhotunics as a separate faction in and of themselves. Its sorta one of those things we exaggerated from the PGE and ran with, like how we thought Satakalaam was illegal.
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Jedak
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So for the beggining, what kind of events or things could happen? And what other things would they cancel out? We could have the event that Harke described, and maybe one were two embassadors or leaders meet, or were a forebear embassador is assasinated in a crown city and the player just so happens to be the witness (the other way around than in most quests) and the player decides what 'happened'. This could change many things. If the player tells that it was the crown then that could have many implications furthur on.
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Lady N: Jedak-of-all-trades
Impending wedding and an assassination are both very good starting events. They're better apart though I think.
also, change Fassi d'Akatten to Fassi m'Akatten.
so here we go:
-Mina m'Tongat, the firstborn daughter of the Tongats, who control a major trading empire, are the "other" (and more legitimate) rich family of Gilane, and have ties to Utei Bendassa, is to be wed to Gazhran m'Shom, the son of Utei Mañei Ei-Shom. The player will probably ultimately be meant to attend this wedding.
-Travind, a counselor to Raha Treigo, was assassinated the day before the player entered Hammerfell.
also, change Fassi d'Akatten to Fassi m'Akatten.
so here we go:
-Mina m'Tongat, the firstborn daughter of the Tongats, who control a major trading empire, are the "other" (and more legitimate) rich family of Gilane, and have ties to Utei Bendassa, is to be wed to Gazhran m'Shom, the son of Utei Mañei Ei-Shom. The player will probably ultimately be meant to attend this wedding.
-Travind, a counselor to Raha Treigo, was assassinated the day before the player entered Hammerfell.
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Jedak
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You don't think it would be a good idea for the player to be witness to the assasination?
Also, a good way to be invited to the wedding would be if you, lets say, did a small job (like ridding an infestation of rats from there home) for one of the families of the to be wed couple and are invited as a reward (say the wedding was very important).
Also, a good way to be invited to the wedding would be if you, lets say, did a small job (like ridding an infestation of rats from there home) for one of the families of the to be wed couple and are invited as a reward (say the wedding was very important).
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The Old Ye Bard
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imo, I think it would be good if instead of every leader doing things that way because they feel they are right, have one of them doing things under a sense of duty and aligence to their fathers/mothers ambitions already set in motion while they were in power, but doing it while questioning it at the same time (which brings a sense of conscience to the character, which all should really, very few people make such big decisions without having second thoughts).
You know, I was just writing a large post on Utei Mañei Ei-Shom when I realized that I had Skaven and Dragonstar mixed up. (I don't know why, really). That brings up the question: Whatever happened to Dragonstar in your post? It's the only major city that isn't mentioned. I'm assuming that, because it's so withdrawn from the rest of Hammerfell, (and by a whole mountain range no less), it won't really be a big player in the politics of Hammerfell, but that isn't necessarily true:
Maybe the leader (Crown like his subjects) wants total war with the Nords. However, Lhotun tries to stop him and, as the leader grudgingly accepts the fact that Lhotun is the ruling King of Hammerfell, he contents himself with secretly supporting underground/generally seedy groups (enter the Order of Diagna) and not punishing any of his subjects for crimes committed against Nords.
Or maybe the ruler (still Crown, as above) is trying to bring Dragonstar out of the economical and financial slump that would probably be caused by the rule of a leader like the one above. Largely ignoring the politics of the rest of Hammerfell, this leader might try to keep peace with the Nords and would try to hold back Dragonstar's fiercely Crown inhabitants.
Maybe this would end up in an important Crown advisor/captain discovering an attempt of the ruler at an alliance with the Nord ruler (like a marriage) and would react in whatever way he thinks is best for Hammerfell. (Trying to dethrone the ruler, hiring assassins to kill the husband/wife-to-be so that the marriage (naturally) can't take place, staying loyal to the ruler against his own will and trying to find out more peaceful ways of putting a stop to the marriage/other event...)
Then again, maybe the leader him/herself acts: The leader, who is a Crown after all and probably only didn't fight the Nords due to the bad state of Dragonstar, might be convinced that Dragonstar is now strong enough, and the Empire weak enough, to fight back against the Nords or the leader might actually lean towards being a Forebear, which would probably end up in a messy rebellion of the leader's subjects which the player would have to stop, either by killing the leader himself or by restraining the locals, before it gets out of hand.
Add a name and title and that's what I suggest for Dragonstar's leader.
(I prefer the idea with the advisor, with the leader actually being a Crown). As for the player's role in the mainquest, I'd like it if he ends up becoming an important but little known figure in politics. For example, he might become a (rather active) advisor for one of the Crowns, or the captain of Lhotun's bodyguard, or one of the higher-ups of Rihad's navy for the Forebears. People who have the power to make big changes, but whose actions are often attributed to the ruler or to no one in particular.
(An example: A scuffle breaks out between the followers of the Crowns and those of Lhotun during a meeting of the leaders. The Utei Mañei Ei-Shom of Skaven restrains her own followers and perhaps even rushes to help Lhotun, while Ra Pashat cannot or will not restrain his own followers. The player, in the service of Utei Yaswa Ei-Azel of Hegathe, would need to convince his lord that attacking would be unwise. (Which it should be; anything that results in the death of any one of the leaders should probably be discouraged, rather than going from (for example) the ruler of Dragonstar being dead in TES: IV and being alive and kicking after a thirty-year rule in TES: V).
In the rumour topic, or the black horse courier, or whatever, all that would be reported is: "The followers of the Ra Pashat of Elinhir attempted to assassinate King Lhotun. Utei Yaswa Ei-Azel and Utei Mañei Ei-Shom managed to restrain their own followers with some trouble and the ensuing scuffle ended with few casualties. The Ra Pashat returned to Elinhir soon afterwards after being forgiven by Lhotun.")
Maybe the leader (Crown like his subjects) wants total war with the Nords. However, Lhotun tries to stop him and, as the leader grudgingly accepts the fact that Lhotun is the ruling King of Hammerfell, he contents himself with secretly supporting underground/generally seedy groups (enter the Order of Diagna) and not punishing any of his subjects for crimes committed against Nords.
Or maybe the ruler (still Crown, as above) is trying to bring Dragonstar out of the economical and financial slump that would probably be caused by the rule of a leader like the one above. Largely ignoring the politics of the rest of Hammerfell, this leader might try to keep peace with the Nords and would try to hold back Dragonstar's fiercely Crown inhabitants.
Maybe this would end up in an important Crown advisor/captain discovering an attempt of the ruler at an alliance with the Nord ruler (like a marriage) and would react in whatever way he thinks is best for Hammerfell. (Trying to dethrone the ruler, hiring assassins to kill the husband/wife-to-be so that the marriage (naturally) can't take place, staying loyal to the ruler against his own will and trying to find out more peaceful ways of putting a stop to the marriage/other event...)
Then again, maybe the leader him/herself acts: The leader, who is a Crown after all and probably only didn't fight the Nords due to the bad state of Dragonstar, might be convinced that Dragonstar is now strong enough, and the Empire weak enough, to fight back against the Nords or the leader might actually lean towards being a Forebear, which would probably end up in a messy rebellion of the leader's subjects which the player would have to stop, either by killing the leader himself or by restraining the locals, before it gets out of hand.
Add a name and title and that's what I suggest for Dragonstar's leader.
(I prefer the idea with the advisor, with the leader actually being a Crown). As for the player's role in the mainquest, I'd like it if he ends up becoming an important but little known figure in politics. For example, he might become a (rather active) advisor for one of the Crowns, or the captain of Lhotun's bodyguard, or one of the higher-ups of Rihad's navy for the Forebears. People who have the power to make big changes, but whose actions are often attributed to the ruler or to no one in particular.(An example: A scuffle breaks out between the followers of the Crowns and those of Lhotun during a meeting of the leaders. The Utei Mañei Ei-Shom of Skaven restrains her own followers and perhaps even rushes to help Lhotun, while Ra Pashat cannot or will not restrain his own followers. The player, in the service of Utei Yaswa Ei-Azel of Hegathe, would need to convince his lord that attacking would be unwise. (Which it should be; anything that results in the death of any one of the leaders should probably be discouraged, rather than going from (for example) the ruler of Dragonstar being dead in TES: IV and being alive and kicking after a thirty-year rule in TES: V).
In the rumour topic, or the black horse courier, or whatever, all that would be reported is: "The followers of the Ra Pashat of Elinhir attempted to assassinate King Lhotun. Utei Yaswa Ei-Azel and Utei Mañei Ei-Shom managed to restrain their own followers with some trouble and the ensuing scuffle ended with few casualties. The Ra Pashat returned to Elinhir soon afterwards after being forgiven by Lhotun.")
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Harke the Apostle
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theviking
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It might maybe a better idea to make a mainquest for every map, like we did for Stirk. This means that this mainquest has to wait until the whole of Hammerfell is made, which will take a while. Of course elements of it should be used. A Goldmoor mainquest is much more urgent.
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Harke the Apostle
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Would those MQs all be independent or would you have to finish one MQ before you started the next?theviking wrote:It might maybe a better idea to make a mainquest for every map, like we did for Stirk. This means that this mainquest has to wait until the whole of Hammerfell is made, which will take a while. Of course elements of it should be used. A Goldmoor mainquest is much more urgent.
Each map has to have a main quest of its own(independant to the other). When all Hammerfell maps will be finished, we could then add an another one for the whole province. There is simply no other way. BTW, I made this sticky to get more attention.
Last edited by aro101 on Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PoHa: how can we best this trio of trouble? who will save us from this menace of sub-par models? what will we do?
PoHa: I know! we'll shoot an Aro at them
Aro: you have only one Aro missile!
PoHa: yes, but its heat seeking and quite possibly indestructible
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PoHa: I know! we'll shoot an Aro at them
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PoHa: yes, but its heat seeking and quite possibly indestructible
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Harke the Apostle
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Goldmoor MQ:
The Dura Ungai are expanding their powerbase in Goldmoor. They put straw men in positions of authority, have shopkeepers pay extortionate sums of ‘protection money’ and seek to monopolize vice.
In a move to control crime in Rihad, Treigo orders the Mansalluh du-Gada to roll up the Dura Ungai.
Treigo convinces Clavilla of Taneth, who also suffers from loss of income to the Old Family, to do the same.
Promising the Empire higher tax revenues, Clavilla convinces the High Council to order the Imperial Navy to help them catch the Durai Ungai, but only if Clavilla and Treigo do most of the work themselves.
The Goldmoor MQ is over when either the Durai Ungai threat is eliminated, or conversely if the Dura Ungai become so powerful that Clavilla and Treigo cannot touch them.
The Dura Ungai are expanding their powerbase in Goldmoor. They put straw men in positions of authority, have shopkeepers pay extortionate sums of ‘protection money’ and seek to monopolize vice.
In a move to control crime in Rihad, Treigo orders the Mansalluh du-Gada to roll up the Dura Ungai.
Treigo convinces Clavilla of Taneth, who also suffers from loss of income to the Old Family, to do the same.
Promising the Empire higher tax revenues, Clavilla convinces the High Council to order the Imperial Navy to help them catch the Durai Ungai, but only if Clavilla and Treigo do most of the work themselves.
The Goldmoor MQ is over when either the Durai Ungai threat is eliminated, or conversely if the Dura Ungai become so powerful that Clavilla and Treigo cannot touch them.
Dragonstar has its own inhouse deal of Redguards vs Nords, is controlled by Imperial "peacekeepers" and is relatively uninvolved in the rest of Hammerfell, though I'm sure it does come up occasionally.
Don't be a fucking douchebag. Stirk has its own mainquest cause its whole point was so we could release things. We're not having a buttload of seperate mainquests. Just cause you guys fucked up making Morrowind's quests doesn't mean Hammerfell should be retarded too.
Yeah so fuck you guys. There's 1 mainquest and you can go to fucking hell if you want more. There's no fucking reason for what you guys did in Morrowind, and it would be even more retarded when we have "maps" like the ones in Hammerfell that are ridiculously tiny.
Hammerfell is not going to be a disjointed piece of crap like Morrowind is. Its going to involve planning this time. We're making a cohesive, single, unified mod.
no rly?theviking wrote:This means that this mainquest has to wait until the whole of Hammerfell is made.
Don't be a fucking douchebag. Stirk has its own mainquest cause its whole point was so we could release things. We're not having a buttload of seperate mainquests. Just cause you guys fucked up making Morrowind's quests doesn't mean Hammerfell should be retarded too.
Yeah so fuck you guys. There's 1 mainquest and you can go to fucking hell if you want more. There's no fucking reason for what you guys did in Morrowind, and it would be even more retarded when we have "maps" like the ones in Hammerfell that are ridiculously tiny.
Hammerfell is not going to be a disjointed piece of crap like Morrowind is. Its going to involve planning this time. We're making a cohesive, single, unified mod.
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Harke the Apostle
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Hillbilly Man
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Mod
Sload, get over it. By the way I look at it Morrowind is meant to be divided due to it's great houses. Honestley your language is really starting to make me mad. I like some of your ideas but if you ask me all you are being right now is a usless unproductive nuisense. Why don't you just use several of everyone's ideas and move on. I personaly like the argonian's ideas. Sload, try to help and not get in the way. Make several MQs based on region and local affairs.
No, I'm not really a hillbilly
"truly special 10's are to be saved for truly special occasions (like the night you try to get in her pants)" - Lady Nerevar
"truly special 10's are to be saved for truly special occasions (like the night you try to get in her pants)" - Lady Nerevar
Sload's been being an asshole for three years around here now and somehow he's still around. Maybe its because he knows what he's talking about?
You understand this is my shit right? Hammerfell is my creation. I can't possibly be getting in the way because everything we're talking about spawns from my head.
You understand this is my shit right? Hammerfell is my creation. I can't possibly be getting in the way because everything we're talking about spawns from my head.
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Harke the Apostle
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Re: Mod
Take this from the Argonian. Sload is about as far from being a useless unproductive nuisanse to TR as is humanly possible. (One of the reasons it says "Honorary Member" underneath his avatar).Hillbilly Man wrote:Sload, get over it. By the way I look at it Morrowind is meant to be divided due to it's great houses. Honestley your language is really starting to make me mad. I like some of your ideas but if you ask me all you are being right now is a usless unproductive nuisense. Why don't you just use several of everyone's ideas and move on. I personaly like the argonian's ideas. Sload, try to help and not get in the way. Make several MQs based on region and local affairs.
I have complete faith in Sload's visions for the quests and so should you. Bear in mind that these discussions about Hammerfell have been going on for a long time. What we are discussing now is the result of many prior discussions. If Sload seems brusque, it is because he doesn't feel the need to overdiscuss topics that were discussed before.
Last edited by Harke the Apostle on Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hillbilly Man: Sload is one of the most productive people at TR, and one of the most knowledgeable people at TR concerning quests, lore, Hammerfell, and more importantly, coolness factor and workability. He was part of the leadership of this project for a long time, and has been a member here since before you probably ever heard of The Elder Scrolls.
Please do not assume Sload is not informed. He knows what he is doing. And don't complain about inappropriate language; this is the internet.
Please do not assume Sload is not informed. He knows what he is doing. And don't complain about inappropriate language; this is the internet.
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind
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Re: Mod
The maps aren't divided by the Great Houses. Actually, the Great Houses are a real mess, especially when you get to the Redoran and Hlaalu parts of it. The separation of maps by TR has no real sense behind it except to split up the map. (Duh). And don't mind Sload; he has a clear picture of how Hammerfell should look like and doesn't want it to be mucked up.Hillbilly Man wrote:By the way I look at it Morrowind is meant to be divided due to it's great houses.
That being said, I'll post my (extremely basic, skeleton type) ideas for the MQ a bit later. At the moment I'm catching up on what's been going on in the rest of the forum.
Edit: Interesting, I think a Sload fan club has developed.
Seriously, four posts in three minutes? (Though one was from Sload).
Last edited by Gnomey on Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hillbilly Man
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Sorry Sload, I didn't mean to attack you like that. I just got the idea that you were trying to be a asshole. I know now that you wern't. I am sorry. Just please, this argueing is really starting to get annoying. I don't know much about how this stuff works but just come to a half way point. Once again. Sorry Sload for that post. It was a misunderstanding.
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"truly special 10's are to be saved for truly special occasions (like the night you try to get in her pants)" - Lady Nerevar
"truly special 10's are to be saved for truly special occasions (like the night you try to get in her pants)" - Lady Nerevar
Ok, Here's what I thought up. This is only for if we do want to have mainquests for every map (and please ignore any spelling errors etc.; MS paint isn't the best tool for these kinds of things):
[url=http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chartgt8.jpg][img]http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/8366/chartgt8.th.jpg[/img][/url]
First of all, I do not expect TR to make 18-20 seperate parts to the MQ, nice as that would be. The plan can easily be changed: The Imperial + Anti-Imperial could be merged into a single "independant" questline or there could be only one ruler who the player could serve for each faction, etc. If we really wanted to go crazy we could even add some city-based politics where minor factions within the large faction scuffle, for example Gilane might be split (going from my idea of the city) into a group that supports the Crowns, a group that supports the Forebears and a group that supports the Dura Ungei.
Second of all, the Anti-Imperials would probably just be a small underground group trying to incite rebellion by causing as much damage as possible, the theory being that it would stretch out the Imperial soldiers until they can't hold Hammerfell anymore. This could actually be the pirate crew faction, but I don't really like that idea.
Anyway, the basic plan is that the regional questlines would be made, each probably surrounding an event that recently occured. In Dragonstar it might concern the Nords. (To ally with the Nords, (Forebear), to avoid conflict while keeping a distance, (Lhotunic), or to take up arms against the Nord part of the city (Crown))? These quests, as I wrote in the chart, would lead to the player supporting one faction more than the others, and he would then be initiated into that faction. The large, Hammerfell mainquest would then start, with different paths, perhaps uniting in one place or splitting in another.
So, anyone care to tear my idea apart?
Edit: The things I miss when I write posts. At least I don't have to grow up and get something done...
[url=http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chartgt8.jpg][img]http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/8366/chartgt8.th.jpg[/img][/url]
First of all, I do not expect TR to make 18-20 seperate parts to the MQ, nice as that would be. The plan can easily be changed: The Imperial + Anti-Imperial could be merged into a single "independant" questline or there could be only one ruler who the player could serve for each faction, etc. If we really wanted to go crazy we could even add some city-based politics where minor factions within the large faction scuffle, for example Gilane might be split (going from my idea of the city) into a group that supports the Crowns, a group that supports the Forebears and a group that supports the Dura Ungei.
Second of all, the Anti-Imperials would probably just be a small underground group trying to incite rebellion by causing as much damage as possible, the theory being that it would stretch out the Imperial soldiers until they can't hold Hammerfell anymore. This could actually be the pirate crew faction, but I don't really like that idea.
Anyway, the basic plan is that the regional questlines would be made, each probably surrounding an event that recently occured. In Dragonstar it might concern the Nords. (To ally with the Nords, (Forebear), to avoid conflict while keeping a distance, (Lhotunic), or to take up arms against the Nord part of the city (Crown))? These quests, as I wrote in the chart, would lead to the player supporting one faction more than the others, and he would then be initiated into that faction. The large, Hammerfell mainquest would then start, with different paths, perhaps uniting in one place or splitting in another.
So, anyone care to tear my idea apart?
Edit: The things I miss when I write posts.
At least I don't have to grow up and get something done...-
Hillbilly Man
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Thought
This doesn't have much to do with the quest but it is something I just thought about. In Oblivion, Obivion Gates opened all over the place. I know that Hammerfell's quests have nothing to do with the gates but will there be random oblivion gates in the countryside of Hammerfell too. It is part of the same universe. I don't know much about lore so I don't know if they were meant just for Cryodil.
Anyways just a thought.
Anyways just a thought.
No, I'm not really a hillbilly
"truly special 10's are to be saved for truly special occasions (like the night you try to get in her pants)" - Lady Nerevar
"truly special 10's are to be saved for truly special occasions (like the night you try to get in her pants)" - Lady Nerevar
As to Oblivion gates in Hammerfell, yes, in fact, there will be some. They won't be quite as common, of course (because who wanted to play them 100 times in Cyrodiil, much less another 100 times in Hammerfell?), and instead of going the Deadlands of Mehrunes Dagon, they go to a realm called "Quagmire," whose lord is Vaernima, the Daedric Prince of Nightmares.
If you search the forums for "Quagmire" there are a few good threads explaining that. I had certainly thought of the political consequences of an Oblivion gate appearing, say, right outside Elinhir. It would create an interesting situation, and no one could really control it.
If you search the forums for "Quagmire" there are a few good threads explaining that. I had certainly thought of the political consequences of an Oblivion gate appearing, say, right outside Elinhir. It would create an interesting situation, and no one could really control it.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nabO_UXb6MM]This is not my life[/url]
The way I see it, the main quest of Hammerfell centers itself around internal conflict within Hammerfell. Basically, what you have is a civil war. Due to obvious restraints, this will be a cold civil war of some sort.
In my opinion anyway, a civil war is all about betrayal. A civil war is where people betray their former friends and allies and turn on each other; this is typically a fight between those who choose to compromise (betray their ideals) and those who choose to fight (betray their friends by allowing them to die). When rulers allow a civil war to happen, they betray their subjects.
Thus, I propose centering the major quests around this theme; each ruler has their own vision of what is best for Hammerfell and each must betray something, whether it be a simple betrayal of a promise made or a betrayal of an ideal or a tradition.
Examples:
-The ruler of X must choose whether they should betray his word by breaking a promise with the Imperials or betray his traditions by keeping it.
-The ruler of Y must choose whether to betray those who have already died (letting them die in vain) or betray those who are yet alive (by allowing the war to continue
So we have things like:
-betraying your word
-betraying traditions/religion
-betraying your friends
-betraying the poor (by allowing a tax raise, etc)
-betraying the dead (by ending a war)
-betraying the living (by continuing it)
-betraying your class
Each ruler has their own priorities and they will eventually make a choice about who they choose to/are forced to betray. The point here is that everybody must make sacrifices of some sort. You can't win in every way; you might be able to preserve X tradition in Y town, but not without damaging Z economic interest. The idea here is that the player doesn't simply win or lose, they achieve an ending, some of which is bad and some of which is good. What is considered to good/bad is pretty much completely subjective here, based on what you consider important, etc.
The way I see this working is that there would be many events taking place in many places, each of which would be triggered by various other events and benchmarks. (Eg other events, guild questlines, etc) With each event, the player would get to affect the outcome in various ways, usually by influencing the local ruler. Influencing the local ruler could be done by winning their confidence and asking them to do what the player wants. Alternately the player could incite riots and lead an angry mob to the gates of the palace to demand something. Alternatively, they could kill the ruler and insert somebody new. The player would have a different role in each event.
Each event would play into some larger choices that can also be made as things reach tipping point. This would probably work by changing a few global values, each of which encapsulate a few important things. In the end, these will play into both local changes. (in the city in question) and global ones. (across the province)
Examples of these that I would consider include:
-The leader of Rihad has given his protection to Imperial merchants and also pledged to protect local religious practices. However, a storm erupts when an imperial merchant commits what would be considered an awful crime when he breaks in on a religious ceremony and kills the sacred animal. (by accident or not, I don't know) Riots erupt and the natives demand his blood. Treigo has to choose who to betray...
-Manyei of Skaven has the service of a particularly enthusiastically anti-Imperial Knight order. They are very loyal to her and under the influence of the words she puts in their heads have been carrying out attacks on X. When some of them are killed, she has to choose whether to betray the dead by letting them go unavenged or start a war of some description.
There are many more possible events like this, these are more samples than anything else.
Thoughts and opinions please.
Remember, it's not a case that there are two views on how Hammerfell should go. There are as many views on that as there are NPCs. Each ruler will place a different value on everything.
At every point, the PC must be given a choice and everything bad that happens will be the player's fault to some extent. The player can't know all the consequences of their actions before they take them, but the actions must have consequences and the player will be a major deciding factor in each event. When they look at something that happened that they don't like, they should be able to see themselves as at least partially to blame.
In my opinion anyway, a civil war is all about betrayal. A civil war is where people betray their former friends and allies and turn on each other; this is typically a fight between those who choose to compromise (betray their ideals) and those who choose to fight (betray their friends by allowing them to die). When rulers allow a civil war to happen, they betray their subjects.
Thus, I propose centering the major quests around this theme; each ruler has their own vision of what is best for Hammerfell and each must betray something, whether it be a simple betrayal of a promise made or a betrayal of an ideal or a tradition.
Examples:
-The ruler of X must choose whether they should betray his word by breaking a promise with the Imperials or betray his traditions by keeping it.
-The ruler of Y must choose whether to betray those who have already died (letting them die in vain) or betray those who are yet alive (by allowing the war to continue
So we have things like:
-betraying your word
-betraying traditions/religion
-betraying your friends
-betraying the poor (by allowing a tax raise, etc)
-betraying the dead (by ending a war)
-betraying the living (by continuing it)
-betraying your class
Each ruler has their own priorities and they will eventually make a choice about who they choose to/are forced to betray. The point here is that everybody must make sacrifices of some sort. You can't win in every way; you might be able to preserve X tradition in Y town, but not without damaging Z economic interest. The idea here is that the player doesn't simply win or lose, they achieve an ending, some of which is bad and some of which is good. What is considered to good/bad is pretty much completely subjective here, based on what you consider important, etc.
The way I see this working is that there would be many events taking place in many places, each of which would be triggered by various other events and benchmarks. (Eg other events, guild questlines, etc) With each event, the player would get to affect the outcome in various ways, usually by influencing the local ruler. Influencing the local ruler could be done by winning their confidence and asking them to do what the player wants. Alternately the player could incite riots and lead an angry mob to the gates of the palace to demand something. Alternatively, they could kill the ruler and insert somebody new. The player would have a different role in each event.
Each event would play into some larger choices that can also be made as things reach tipping point. This would probably work by changing a few global values, each of which encapsulate a few important things. In the end, these will play into both local changes. (in the city in question) and global ones. (across the province)
Examples of these that I would consider include:
-The leader of Rihad has given his protection to Imperial merchants and also pledged to protect local religious practices. However, a storm erupts when an imperial merchant commits what would be considered an awful crime when he breaks in on a religious ceremony and kills the sacred animal. (by accident or not, I don't know) Riots erupt and the natives demand his blood. Treigo has to choose who to betray...
-Manyei of Skaven has the service of a particularly enthusiastically anti-Imperial Knight order. They are very loyal to her and under the influence of the words she puts in their heads have been carrying out attacks on X. When some of them are killed, she has to choose whether to betray the dead by letting them go unavenged or start a war of some description.
There are many more possible events like this, these are more samples than anything else.
Thoughts and opinions please.
Remember, it's not a case that there are two views on how Hammerfell should go. There are as many views on that as there are NPCs. Each ruler will place a different value on everything.
At every point, the PC must be given a choice and everything bad that happens will be the player's fault to some extent. The player can't know all the consequences of their actions before they take them, but the actions must have consequences and the player will be a major deciding factor in each event. When they look at something that happened that they don't like, they should be able to see themselves as at least partially to blame.
"It’s all been such a mistake. We were once little shrew-like animals. That would be so much better."
-Ophelia Benson
-Ophelia Benson
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Jedak
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- Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
This is Gold, Lud.
An ambassador from Taneth is visiting a Crown City. The leader from the Crown city, X, has promised the ambassadors safety and return. During the ambassadors stay at the castle, he overhears a confidential conversation between the two friends of X. The player sees the ambassador listening. The player tells X what has happened. What does X do, does he betray his word, or betray his friends?
The Forebear recently raided a Lutohic camp for information, but one survivor lived to tell the tale. A rich family in Sentinel want to do a secret raid on a Forebear Fort to avenge the dead and earn supplies but require men from the castle to do it. The leader of Sentinel, Y, needs doesn't have the extra funding for the men if the went on the mission. Will Y betray the poor by allowing a tax raise and the living by continueing this fight, or betray the Rich family and the dead by not?
Betray the poor: The poor majority of the city riots.
Betray the rich: The rich minority of the city riots.
An ambassador from Taneth is visiting a Crown City. The leader from the Crown city, X, has promised the ambassadors safety and return. During the ambassadors stay at the castle, he overhears a confidential conversation between the two friends of X. The player sees the ambassador listening. The player tells X what has happened. What does X do, does he betray his word, or betray his friends?
The Forebear recently raided a Lutohic camp for information, but one survivor lived to tell the tale. A rich family in Sentinel want to do a secret raid on a Forebear Fort to avenge the dead and earn supplies but require men from the castle to do it. The leader of Sentinel, Y, needs doesn't have the extra funding for the men if the went on the mission. Will Y betray the poor by allowing a tax raise and the living by continueing this fight, or betray the Rich family and the dead by not?
Betray the poor: The poor majority of the city riots.
Betray the rich: The rich minority of the city riots.
Macar: At last, I have a coleague to work with.
Lady N: Jedak-of-all-trades
Lady N: Jedak-of-all-trades
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Harke the Apostle
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I should like to have the Yellow Horde return as part of the MQ, or as the region quest for Helkori.
The PC finds out that the void from which the Horde invaded was not simply another dimension, but had temporal properties as well. When Derik Hallin hurled the swords into the void, he merely sent the opening into the future. The PC must travel back in time via the void to stop Derik and correct his error, or alternatively manipulate things to the PC’s advantage.
The PC can do several things, all of which will affect the present when he returns there. If he kills Hallin, the PC might die and disappear. If he persuades Hallin to do it another way so other (minor) thing will happen. Ot he might do the right thing and the goblins might return to their normal size.
The PC finds out that the void from which the Horde invaded was not simply another dimension, but had temporal properties as well. When Derik Hallin hurled the swords into the void, he merely sent the opening into the future. The PC must travel back in time via the void to stop Derik and correct his error, or alternatively manipulate things to the PC’s advantage.
The PC can do several things, all of which will affect the present when he returns there. If he kills Hallin, the PC might die and disappear. If he persuades Hallin to do it another way so other (minor) thing will happen. Ot he might do the right thing and the goblins might return to their normal size.
shut up youre an idiot
EDIT: When I wrote the above I was drunk.
I don't know what you're talking about but it sounds like one of those stupid things from an old game and all in all its way too uber so fuck no.
yeah I'm still a bit drunk. oh well.
EDIT: When I wrote the above I was drunk.
I don't know what you're talking about but it sounds like one of those stupid things from an old game and all in all its way too uber so fuck no.
yeah I'm still a bit drunk. oh well.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nabO_UXb6MM]This is not my life[/url]
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Hillbilly Man
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Time Travel
I don't know if he is an idiot but time travel isn't a good idea. It hasn't happened in any oblivion quest or story before. I think the cult is a cool idea but is it realistic? Time travel is a bad idea. It wouldn't make sense and daedra would have done it many times before. But those are some good thoughts though.
No, I'm not really a hillbilly
"truly special 10's are to be saved for truly special occasions (like the night you try to get in her pants)" - Lady Nerevar
"truly special 10's are to be saved for truly special occasions (like the night you try to get in her pants)" - Lady Nerevar