Psst. classified.

[theviking]

We from the quest department are working on a new beta release of map1. Do you have anything that can be improved in map1? Then we might be able to include it in the new release. BTW, don't tell everyone that a new release is coming. It will only increase the stress on the ones that are fixing map1 right now.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

And pretty much anything short of massive exterior/interior overhauls I am willing to do myself, in this current round of fixes, so no worries about getting it implemented (as long as there's not masses of requests).

[Haplo]

Yes give it to me when you're finished so I can fix physical errors before you release please kthxbai.

[Lud]

More creatures need to be placed in the exteriors. Before the release of version 1.11, I spent a few days placing extra creatures in the landscape. Unfortunately, this work was never used. (Somebody used the wrong esp after me) Thus, it needs re-doing.

Some pieces of landscape are frightfully ugly. There aren't many of them, but I'd like to see them fixed before release.

Readme needs updating. (I'll do this, as I wrote the other two) Won't take long, all that's needed is to update the changelog and contributors list.

I'd also like to include some teaser stuff in the rar. Won't be too much, just some screenies of other maps, notes about what's coming up, etc.

We need to sort out hosting. I'll contact the PES admins and see about updating the files when we're a bit closer to the time. (I contacted them last time, so it'll be easier)

We should consider adding a new forum for players to the public area. Since we now have quests, people will be coming here and posting "help, I can't find Riim'Joab for this quest!", etc. It's best to keep these in one place, seem friendlier and give us a chance to recruit these people and to get useful feedback.(All modders were players once)

And good job on the fixing guys! (Sorry I wasn't really around for this round)

[Gez]

Also, TR_Data will need to be updated. The last available version doesn't have the correct Daedric Septis book (in so far as what I put in was correct, nobody ever commented on picture order or fluff daedric text), and some of the butterflies/moths were still gleefully static and squares in the test cell.

PS: Hey, Haplo, about that tower from Karthor Dale, is it going into Data yes or no?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I'd also like to include some teaser stuff in the rar. Won't be too much, just some screenies of other maps, notes about what's coming up, etc.

On a that kind of note, me and Lute discussed some splash-screens in the vanilla style with some TR creatures a while back, and he's done some work on those. That might be a nice thing to include.

And in terms of a Data Update, it is vital that we get the 'faction skill requirements and names' deal sorted out prior to release, otherwise buggery ensues. That at least must be included in an updated Data. (Or perhaps, if an updated Data isn't ready by the time of the release, it could be sent out as a temporary 'patch-up' .esp until a final Data can be sent out)

[Nomadic1]

By the splash screens, do you mean the in-game load screens? If so, don't. The files are far too big. The core decided that years back.

[Haplo]

This looks good to you guys, doesn't it? If so I'll include it in TR_Data once an interior has been made. Or can you use the tileset to create a workable interior?

[url=http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6946/19013780af1.jpg][img]http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6946/19013780af1.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[Nomadic1]

That seems alright. Because it is square, the standard Velothi pieces will work to make the interior for whereever that tower turns up.

[Gez]

[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=139555]Tum de-dum.[/url]

[Theo]

There is one fatal issue with TR_DATA which messes up lots of quests as well, which is that quite unfortunate outlaw script, which modifies outlaws' AI according to their intelligence PC level etc.
The result is that some outlaws do not to attack you, leaving their more experienced comrades to do the job and then you can initiate idle conversations with them.

For the purpose of simplicity I would not modify general Outlaws AI by scripts, if not purpose of some quest. Please remove this code from outlaw scripts for a while or you will get hundreds of confused posts: "While playing Lost fiancee I entered Yashazmus ruin, but only the chief cultist attacked me and the others stayed behind..." etc.

EDIT: Sorry, the outlaw script is in map1 not TR_Data.

Also for the spellbooks (those are in TR_DATA for sure). I believe the bug with BoT scripts can be solved in following way:
If you have enough intelligence then you learn the spell, the book is reactivated, which runs the script again and then the initial condition finds spell in your spellbook and returns allowing you standard manipulation with the book.
However if you do not have sufficient stats, the book is activated again, which I believe leads to a circle (happens always to me in the game). Replace "activate" with "return" in those cases. (Haven't tested if the fix works yet).

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Rather than remove it, it should have a line that sets Fight 100, 'cos as it stands most outlaws have 30 attack. (So removing the script would just mean they *all* wouldn't attack)

I can probably do that in my Data tweak thingy I had planned for when those statues turn up.

[Theo]

Whoops! So fast reply! Please check my edit of my previous post

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Ah, if it's in Map 1 I can fix it now, then.

As for the spellbook thing, see if you can test that out and get it working. It'd be awesome if you could.

[Gez]

(Haven't tested if the fix works yet).

Test, test, test. Scripts in Morrowind borrow more from Erisian Voodoo than from logic, and scripted books are especially frustrating in the way they never do what they're expected to do. The spellbooks have been all fixed "for real this time" at least thrice already...

[Theo]

I do apologize... This time the scripts in TR_DATA work fine without my bugging "solutions", which is something beyond my understanding (why does return function activate the book if you have activated the book previously and not if you activate it for the first time?) The scripts are fine in current version and I have tested them ingame using console changing my int so it should be safe. (I must have used old data then).

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Wait? The scripts are fine? Theo, could you do a run through of the TG quest that wants you to steal one of them, and also report what version of Data you're using?

It'd be good to get to the bottom of this and ensure that things are working for that quest.

[Haplo]

oh yeah I forgot about that interior. Yeah it'll be included in the next update of TR_Data

[Theo]

Not only I did check the book in Draan Solobar, but I went to Firewatch library and learned some other spells as well. I might check it again. And my version of TR_Data is the most recent one, I beleive.

Concerning TR_DATA: Why do all the new beetles (green, brown, blue, horned) have checked only walking as type of their movement, when they have quite nice flying animation as well? Perhaps to use both of these animations, there could be low-level versions of beetles, who could only run slowly and then high-level flying annoying pests.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

All the scripts are working perfectly? Now that is strange. Could you copy and paste the script here, so I can compare it to the version that's in my (still last public release of Map 1) version of Data? (Put it in "code", to prevent it looking weird)

And you have tested enough times to be sure it is foolproof?

@ Beetles, the thing is they only 'fly' when running forwards, and thus will not have their wings out when they're just standing still or walking. So it'd look stupid if they were allowed to fly.

[Theo]

I was using this script:

Begin TR_BoTs_Burden
Short Switch

if ( Switch == 1 )
return
endif

if ( OnActivate == 1 )
set Switch to 1
if ( player->GetIntelligence >= 80 )
if ( player->getspell "TR_BoT_Burden" == 0 )
Player->AddSpell "TR_BoT_Burden"
MessageBox "You have learned the spell Weight of Guilt from this book."
PlaySound "skillraise"
else
MessageBox "You already learned the spell Weight of guilt, there is nothing knew for you to learn from this book."
endif
elseif ( player->GetIntelligence >= 60 )
MessageBox "There is a spell to be learned from this book, but you cannot figure out how to cast it."
endif
Activate
endif

End

The old scripts ended in loops as the activate command allways activated the script again, which quited before reactivation just in case you already learned the spell. This solution works, but there is a "price":
Each book can be used to learn spell from it only once (It could be changed, that you can make another attempt on next level or so, if desired, but the trick is that you cannot reattempt to learn spell from the book immediately after you tried once). If you fail to learn it, you must find another book of the same kind and increase your intelligence.

Please somebody else test it, I may have overlooked something.

[evergrey]

"You already learned the spell Weight of guilt, there is nothing knew for you to learn from this book."

Pssst- it ought to read: "You have already learned the spell Weight of Guild. There is nothing new for you to learn from this book."

[Haplo]

Guilt, actually But thanks for noting it

[Morden]

Have more wilderness encounters been added to map 1 since the last release?... because a lot of people didn't like how devoid of NPCs it was.

[Theo]

Yeap, map 1 could definitely have more outlaws. Perhaps the Roamers could occupy greater area and there is place for other bandits as well (rogue Telvanni mages?). In map 2 files (detailing thread 5), modders used some new variants of Roamers.
Or somebody could create competing outlaw clan of magic-users typical for Telvanni lands? I would definitely love to implement this idea.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Don't overload with generic named NPCs, though. The Roamers are the limit for that, IMO.

And on the script, you're saying that that's the version in the latest data, and therefore if we release a data-update alongside Map 1, all will be well?

And what's the limitation? That 'switch' is never reset to 0?

If that's the case, someone can slip in these lines up right at the top:

Code: Select all

If ( MenuMode == 0 )
       If ( doOnce == 0 )
              Set Switch to 0
              Set doOnce to 1
       Endif
Endif

And add 'set doOnce to 0' underneath the current "set Switch to 1".


That all assumes that reading a book triggers MenuMode.


If that's not the case, we can probably do something with measuring the player's level, and each time it changes set switch to 0 kind of thing, but I'm assuming books do trigger MenuMode.

That'll remove the Switch not resetting problem, making the script perfect.[/code]

[Gez]

Don't overload with generic named NPCs, though. The Roamers are the limit for that, IMO.

True. This isn't Oblivion where the average dungeon contains more outlaws (conjurers, necromancers, marauders...) than there are normal, named citizens in the whole province.

For reference, here's a list of (hostile) generic NPC groups in Morrowind:

Morrowind.esm:
-Dreamers

Tribunal.esm:
-Dark Brotherhood members

Bloodmoon.esm:
-Berserkers
-Fryse Hags
-Reavers
-Smugglers
-Werewolves (show up as insane lunatic idiots during dayhours)

You'll notice Bloodmoon was especially rich in cannon fodder NPC, given the gameplay requirement of providing werewolf

Now, for Tamriel Rebuilt, we can't use Dreamers much (there are a few Sixth House bases on the mainland, but they're necessarily incredibly rare), we can't use Dark Brothers (they're tied to the Tribunal mainquest), and we can't use most of the Bloodmoon guys except maybe on Map5. We could use the smugglers, I think.

For our own cannon fodder factions, we already have the roamers. We could design other factions, true... But let's be serious: not a rival faction of outlaw wizards. Not on the Telvanni lands. What we could use for Map1 could be feral and frightened fugitive slaves. Khajiits and Argonians, with their slave bracers and primitive weapons, hiding in caves and attacking anybody who trespasses.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Some pieces of landscape are frightfully ugly. There aren't many of them, but I'd like to see them fixed before release.

One area I just picked up that could do with a re-do is the area from the Boethian Mountains Lighthouse to Ashamul. It could be a really nice pretty scenic clifftop walk, but is just boring and with crap terrain (jumps around all over the place, looks ugly). Could do with some work, I feel.

[Lady Nerevar]

so, i just played map 1. on a rather random note as far as this thread is concerned, map2 PWNS map1.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Yeah. And Map3 does Map 2.

It's amazing how things get better and better as it goes on.

[Nalin]

...feral and frightened fugitive slaves. Khajiits and Argonians, with their slave bracers and primitive weapons, hiding in caves and attacking anybody who trespasses.

I really like this idea, really really like it wouldn't it make sense to have these paranoid (with good reason) "offensive defensive" pockets of resistance runaway slaves a little further south?

On reflection - I suppose it makes as much sence to have them further away from their homelands as it does to have 'em near - more sense even as they could make a dash for it if they were near the border (argonians into black marsh) - but then they'd have the Dres to avoid...

OK OK, I'm rambling (tired) - what i'm trying to say though is: paranoid (with good reason) "offensive defensive" pockets of resistance runaway slaves holed up in hidaway caverns sounds awesome - It'd even add a touch of "Noooo! don't attack - i'm not going to harm you poor slaves! Let me help - Uuughh - stop hitting me with that club!...seriously...Arrghh!

*seconds later standing over the lifeless body of Attacks-Without-Question*

WHY!?! This wasn't how I wanted it to be!!

Feel the guilt! Unless ofcourse you play as a Dres slave hating type - then of course it'd just be fun - either ways it's a winner.

...sorry if this constitutes more as spam than as a constructive comment.

[Tyrion]

Vanilla Morrowind had lots more cannon fodder than just Dreamers, they just had proper names (ashlanders, mabrigash, renegade wizards, bandits, smugglers).

Either way I see no difference. When you are jumped by some nameless outlaw in the wilderness you don't expect them to carry a nametag that says "Hi, my name is Sally".

Hostiles are hostiles the real difference was that named characters don't respawn whereas unnamed ones can.

[Lady Nerevar]

also while walking around map1 i noticed that a lot of the people chillin' by the campfires didnt attack me. since they had a very limited number of topics (soltheim omg lol) and were in the middle of the willderness i presume that they were supose to be bandits... AI is wrong?

[Haplo]

Yeah that's the bandit script problem mentioned earlier, I think

[evergrey]

Guilt, actually But thanks for noting it

D'oh.
Guilt, yes.
I shouldn't post anything after taking my Ambien. Heh.

[Theo]

BOT script: No this script is mine. The scripts in TR_DATA I reported to work didn't work that well in the end, but only if your intelligence was high enough to learn the spell. I just didn't test them properly.
So I would rather ask someone to test my version of the script properly
I am sorry for this confusion, this is what needs to be done: Script in my post used in TR_DATA, tested and if working then implemented with other BoT scripts.

The BC change might work well, but it makes the script more complex, than it is already. It would need testing as well.
There are also other options to reset the switch: Using timer, monitoring raise of someone's intelligence etc.

The bandits: The new bandits can have generic names ('Runaway slave'), but definitely as I think it is nice idea to have a specific feature (Runaway slaves are very nice idea - some Khajiits could show their skills in 'Rain of sand' martial art), they should all be unique and not respawb. I am willing to place the bandits in final stage of map 1 fixing and once I am on this, I will also reset AI of all outlaws (those with _O_ in their name) and remove the Outlaw script. I like it to be clean as possible and you can also give the bandits some varying stats as attack between 80-100 (They will attack only when you come closer) and some retreat values as well (sissies will run away if you wound them), so they will have bigger 'personality'.

To map 1 terrain fixing. There is also lots of seams and pointy vertexes. Some smoothing and vertex aligning could definitely made it look better. Some areas still need lots of detail.

EDIT: Concerning map 3 beating map 2 - Wait until we are finished with map 3 detailing There are lots of places that could be fubar if given more attention.

[Gez]

Vanilla Morrowind had lots more cannon fodder than just Dreamers, they just had proper names

And that is a very important difference. They're unique.

Generic NPCs, like guards and those that I have mentioned, respawn. Kill 'em, go back there one week later, they're back. Or maybe there's some other random thing back instead.

Empty Addamasartus of its unique named bandits, and it'll stay empty forever. They are really dead.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Precisely. Gez is right.

And IMO, any further (NPC) enemies added to Map 1 must have names, otherwise we look lasy and succumb to Oblivion.

And Theo, I'll test the script, and if it works get it put in in the Data Update I'm doing for factions and various other important tweaks.