Tamriel Rebuilt Map 1 Connection

[osiris]

This is a very simple question indeed.

Being TR Map 1 quite close to a third release with quests, is the 'connection' plugin going to be merged with this upcoming new release? That would be really useful in my opinion, as long as the features of the transportation plugin will be improved as promised in the readme.

What's going on with this bolt - on?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

All the new travel options except one or two have been added in the latest quest file. (As a tester, you should be able to see that, actually )

Unless, of course, I'm forgetting what order I've been updating stuff in.

But either way, yes, it will all be there. (Except travel to and from Vvardenfell)

If we were going to do that, I'd do something involving the Census and Excise, and having to buy special papers each time, kinda thing.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

do you mean the connection with the vvardenfell to the mainland? because as I understand it that will never actually be merged with the map. I might be talking about the wrong thing though.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I think Osiris is talking about the various travel options (Silt striders in Bal Oyra, Ranyon-ruhn and Tel Ouada, boat at Port Telvannis) that were added, not the mainland-Vvardenfell things (which, BTW, weren't actually functional in Gez's .esp)

[osiris]

@Crustacean: the Silt Striders in Bal Oyra and Firewatch comes from Gez's mod indeed.

do you mean the connection with the vvardenfell to the mainland?

Yes, I'm exactly talking about this one:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=8530

It has some features that would be nice to see in a next release of Map 1 (like the Ranyon-ruhn market or such), and would be a pity to loose; and yes the 'smugglers' never worked to me as well... Never seen one of them. But if the mod will be fixed and improved, I believe that it could be a good thing. Players who would to reach the mainland from Vvardenfell should have a chance to do that without just swimming, waterwalking or levitating.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

that plugin was Gez's doing. Since he has risen from the dead perhaps he will update it. The plugin was never officially part of TR though.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Osiris, I duplicated all the changes from Gez's thing that were to do with Fast Travel, other than ML-VV, into the latest file. That includes the Market etc. (and I am never recreating (exactly, BTW: that's dedication for you) by hand another interior ever again. )


As for ML-VV connection, I'd suggest a lore-friendly Census and Excise beauracracy gauntlet, as I mentioned earlier.

I'd release it in my own plug-in if it wasn't wanted for TR proper. (As Gez did)


EDIT: Just to clarify - what I did not copy from Gez's plug in was:

Mainland-Vvard Travel Arrangements: Explained already.
Firewatch Silt-strider: Lore/Immersion braking reasons.
Replacement "Oh noez teh Brotherhood" dialogue for the mainland: I couldn't be bothered, and wasn't part of my brief: nor did I even realise it was a part of Gez's mod until I looked just now.

In addition, I added a new boat to Bahrammu from Bal Oyra.

[Gez]

and yes the 'smugglers' never worked to me as well... Never seen one of them.

I think I explained the issue I had. Everytime the Map1 ESM changed, the connection ESP's exterior changes had to be redone. For some reason, the deleted things (because I had to delete a few things) were no longer deleted, instead it was other things that were deleted. Like in Ranyon-Ruhn, for example, the fence posts were back in but a velothi house would disappear... Or something like that.

So, everytime, what did I do? Delete all the exterior CELL from the plugin, and redo them from scratch (I ended up keeping a copy of the things to add somewhere, so I could just past them).

Eventually, I forgot to put the smugglers back in the Vvardenfell cells. Not that it matters too much anyway; if you want a quick way to go to Telvannis you can type "set TR_test to 1" in the console and look at your inventory...

Osiris, I duplicated all the changes from Gez's thing that were to do with Fast Travel, other than ML-VV, into the latest file. That includes the Market etc. (and I am never recreating (exactly, BTW: that's dedication for you) by hand another interior ever again. )

You did? I gotta see that. The thing I liked the most was the scenic Bal Oyra striderport, by the way.

Mainland-Vvard Travel Arrangements: Explained already.

Weren't there anyway (though the guy on Firewatch did bring you to Vvardenfell and Sheogorad, since it was just an NPC change rather than a cell change).

Firewatch Silt-strider: Lore/Immersion braking reasons.

When in Telvannis... I don't think the lore was too much broken, given how the first silt strider we sees is in the imperial colony/census & excise outpost of Seyda Neen. That said, I don't object to it not being there.

Replacement "Oh noez teh Brotherhood" dialogue for the mainland: I couldn't be bothered, and wasn't part of my brief: nor did I even realise it was a part of Gez's mod until I looked just now.

But something like that probably should go in, unless you want to have mainland guards telling you to go to quarantined Vvardenfell to go to the mainland...

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

You did? I gotta see that. The thing I liked the most was the scenic Bal Oyra striderport, by the way.

Well, you won't see anything you haven't already (almost literally exact copies, two CS windows, constant flicking back and forth etc.), but that's how much I loved your work. (Except the lighting in the Market, which I toned down a tad)

And the Bal Oyra striderport, too, is an exact copy. (And in this case, truly exact, as I was able to copy and paste the co-ordinates of each piece from one CS to the other. Now that was boring. )

But something like that probably should go in, unless you want to have mainland guards telling you to go to quarantined Vvardenfell to go to the mainland...

Oh yeah, good point. I'll fix that up with the next update, then, too.

[theviking]

Cool, since the map2 transport system is okay now, this will mean a very nice link. It is also very useful for quests, since you don't want to travel 5 times the same way.

[osiris]

Just to clarify - what I did not copy from Gez's plug in was:
Firewatch Silt-strider: Lore/Immersion braking reasons.
In addition, I added a new boat to Bahrammu from Bal Oyra.

What's wrong with the Silt Strider tower in Firewatch? I would kindly suggest to keep it, as Firewatch is a big settlement and needs more than just one type of transportation (a boat at the docks in this case): so players who are near the docks could take the boat, and who is closer to the other part of the city could opt for the taxi bug... which has been always handy in Morrowind.

Remember that players likes quantity as well (and that not everyone could like to walk for miles to reach Ranyon-ruhn), so if Firewatch will have one more static (the tower) plus the related Silt Strider, they will be very happy IMHO. I have always found the view of that Silt Strider quite scenic, too... Otherwise, without the Silt Strider tower, Firewatch would seems without any transportation service, as a tiny boat at the docks is definitely more difficult to find at a first sight.

What I would suggest for the tower, is a fixing for the interior lighting and a bit more stuff instead.

Ok for the boat at Bahrammu, the island where the village takes place definitely needs a revamp.

[Lud]

Firewatch also has a Guild guide to Bal Oyra (and eventually to Necrom and Darconis)
I'm currently working on the parts of the main quest set in Firewatch and the ruler there and most of the populace are fervently anti-Telvanni and very suspicious of dunmer customs in general. Unless you want me to re-write the MQ to fit in with the idea of Firewatch as somewhere that would tolerate that kind of dunmer influence, I would insist that Firewatch remains siltstrider free.

However, there's no reason we couldn't have some other forms of transportation available. What about a guar cart?

[osiris]

Hum, good point about a possible main quest / Silt Strider conflict. Never thought about it (as I don't know the main quest plot actually).

However, there's no reason we couldn't have some other forms of transportation available. What about a guar cart?

Lol, that would be quite amusing indeed.

[Lud]

Parrapton transport is a must for map6

What else would be a suitably imperial form of transport?

[Gnomey]

Hm... How about a guide who is willing to take the player through the "wild,untamed and uncultured" land of Morrowind? He might drop the player off at one of four cities, either by a tavern or by the gate. In his dialogue he could tell the player that he is only familiar with the land between Firewatch and those four cities, which is why he won't take you to any of the other cities. He could also mention that he'll return to Firewatch as soon as you get within sight of the city gate, which is why you won't see him anywhere nearby when you arrive at your destination. For travel to Firewatch I'd think that, besides ship travel and MG travel, divine intervention would be an obvious choice.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I really think it's fine.

Other than guar caravan, which seems something that could be usefully added to various places all across the land and not seem silly, I'm fine with Firewatch being no less accessible than Ebonheart, or other Imperial cities on Vvardenfell.

[Gnomey]

Yeah, I actually agree that it's fine as it is. Imperials aren't that important on map one, so there wouldn't be a lot of people wanting to go to Imperial cities.

[osiris]

Seriously, the guar carovaners could be a good idea if they will be added in some way to small and poor communities like Ashamul or Sarvanni, or other small settlement like shack villages rather than in big cities; and as long as the carovaners will not many and not in many places, since guars are more used in mods rather than in the vanilla game.

What do you think about that?

Changing topic: are dialogue lines about the mainland going to be added to Vvardenfell, at least on the cities on the east cosast of the island and the other major cities?
I'm talking about this because this would have been a feature fo an updated vesion of Gez's plugin.

[Rastamage]

So, if I've read this thread right, there is not going to be an easy way to get from Vvardenfell to the mainland? As a long-time fan of the Telvanni I'd be more than happy to try out Map 1 to see more of the House. But if there isn't going to be a fast travel method to get to the mainland I'm not sure.

[Gez]

Changing topic: are dialogue lines about the mainland going to be added to Vvardenfell, at least on the cities on the east cosast of the island and the other major cities?

This wouldn't directly change Beth's content (you can add dialogue to NPCs, it doesn't change the NPC) so it's something that could be done.

So, if I've read this thread right, there is not going to be an easy way to get from Vvardenfell to the mainland? As a long-time fan of the Telvanni I'd be more than happy to try out Map 1 to see more of the House. But if there isn't going to be a fast travel method to get to the mainland I'm not sure.

Try this: go to Tel Mora and cast Divine Intervention. It should put you in Firewatch.

Magic: circumventing puny human laws since forever.

[gro-Dhal]

So, if I've read this thread right, there is not going to be an easy way to get from Vvardenfell to the mainland? As a long-time fan of the Telvanni I'd be more than happy to try out Map 1 to see more of the House. But if there isn't going to be a fast travel method to get to the mainland I'm not sure.

It's like, a minute's walk if you have the water walking spell. Kids these days...

[honor01]

or like a 3 minute swim...

[Gez]

Or a three seconds casting of Divine Intervention.

[osiris]

This wouldn't directly change Beth's content (you can add dialogue to NPCs, it doesn't change the NPC) so it's something that could be done.

Yes, I know that, and definitely should be done for the next release of Map 1! At least Vvardenfell's Telvanni wizards, Vvardenfell's Telvanni cities inhabithants and other key characters in the major cities of the island should get dialogue topics on the mainland this time.

@Crustacean: if I remember well, some of the new shipmasters / carovaner that have been added in the last quest plugin needs to have the topic "destinations": look at the shipmasters in Firewatch and Port Telvannis for example.
And you changed the appearance of the Silt Strider girl at Ranyon-ruhn!

[Gez]

The names have been changed too, haven't they? And I think the terrain hasn't been smoothed around the BO striderport's access stair.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Well aren't we the picky so-and-sos.

Some names were changed to protect the identities of the innocent etc. etc. Or just because I didn't like the old ones (particularly the Stider pub gal), or felt like I wanted to exert a little individualism.

I'll get the destinations done, though, 'cos that's actually important.

And check the BO terrain to see that it doesn't look silly.




On the other note, I'm unsure what the consensus would be on adding mainland related dialogue to Vvardenfell, so would wait for admin approval before moving.

One thing I do want to do though, is remove Vvardenfell specific dialogue from the mainland, in the Data update I want to do.

[Rastamage]

Well I guess it won't be that hard to get from Vvardenfell to the mainland, then. I eagerly look forward to Map 1's release with quests. Hopefully it comes out before I finish Morrowind + expansions.

[Gez]

Can somebody get me off Rastamage's ignore list? Tel Mora. Divine Intervention.

[Rastamage]

I wasn't ignoring you. I thought I made a general answer of "ah, yes" to the many responses to my question. Although your specific example won't work for me since I don't join the Imperial Cult and Wakim's makes it so that you can only by Divine Intervention when you do. At any rate, I'm looking forward to the release (with quests).

[El Scumbago]

Adding a ship and an NPC to take you to the mainland would hardly take more than 5 minutes, 7 if you clean it with TESAME. No sweat at all.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

It conflicts with our policies.

But don't worry, I intend to make a 'Gez style' .esp for fast travel when Map 2 is released. (Or possibly when Map 1 w/ quests comes out, but I'm not sure)

[osiris]

I believe that fast travel options and all the related stuff should be always incorporated by default (and be fully functional) in every Map release, even the first open beta for Map 2, without other accessory plugins from third parts: many players still doesn't know the 'connection plugin' by Gez, thus mods from third parts would only confuse people.
For Map 1 quest I ask for that 'East Empire Company gauntlet' you mentioned, which I believe essential; dialogue on the mainland for Vvardenfell, I hope the admins will approve, as Vvardenfell inhabitants can't ignore the mainland... I live in Rome and (unfortunately) I do not travel much but I know that Italy has Sicily and Sardinia as well.

New boat for Bahrammu: the landscape there is good, there's only a texture seam near the docks that should be fixed; though I do not understand why at Bahrammu I found a tiny boat, and when I reach the docks of Bal Oyra my character drops from a bigger boat.

Firewatch: no more lore - breaking Silt Strider, but a boat to an anti - Imperial town such as Port Telvannis now? It's useful for the gameplay though.

You should rework the 'Silt Striders' topic for the Map 1 carovaners too, since everyone there is telling me that Silt Striders links Balmnora to Suran, Vivec etc. (e.g. Map 1 needs its unique 'Silt Striders' topic)

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Any physical contact between TR and Vvardenfell has been explicitly stated to be a no-go for the mod proper by the admins. Sorry.

When I do make the beauracracy gauntlet, though, I will try and do so just before the public release, so that it can be either linked to by the BGSF thread, or even perhaps packaged with the download. No problem about no one seeing it.


And the primary problem with Vva-Ml dialogue links, is the fact that factions aren't explicitly linked, etc., so it makes it hard to do such dialogue without drawing attention to the fact that they aren't as linked as we'd like.

If you have any ideas for the kind of dialogue you'd like to see, though, post it here, or PM me, if you don't want the general public to get their hands on it.

Firewatch has a boat to PT just for logical reasons. Why wouldn't they: the Telvanni can't explicitly deny access, and it's probably convenient for diplomats etc. Also, dialogue in PT 'looks down on' the boat, and Telvanni people will say "why would you want to go there?" etc.

As for Bahrammu->Bal Oyra, that's how it always worked in Beth's games. (Different boats at different ports) And the idea is just that you were 'dropped off at the docks'. Unless the travel marker is actually on the big boat, it's not an issue.


@ silt striders, that's the kind of thing I was gonna fix in Data. (Stuff like little advice's "hey, go see Mr. X, he's the best Class X in the world, or little secrets' "don't go to Molag Amur" stuff.) Thanks for the heads up that that's a problem, if you see other such topics, feel free to notify me.

[osiris]

Beauracracy gauntlet: packed with the main download; else people will forget about it very soon.
Pity for the Vvardenfell dialogue links... I remember that some vanilla NPCs already has some 'lil topics on the mainland here and there.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I'm not saying no, but it's just hard for me to think of stuff that'd be fun and relevant, and not 'jarring'. It'd have to be slipped into other topics, if you ask me, rather than just some "mainland", "Port Telvannis" topics type get up. That'd lead to some swiftly boring generic 'Solstheim-esque' topics that everyone has but that no one wants to listen to.

To do it well takes more effort, and has potential conflicts with things like LGNPC.(Such conflicts, BTW, being the reason for the policy in the first place: if you don't touch Vvard, then everyone can use TR, except those with other massive landmass mods.)

[Haplo]

What is a bureaucracy gauntlet?

[El Scumbago]

What is a bureaucracy gauntlet?

A gathering of TR members in the lore forum.

[Gez]

I think what Crust means is going to the Census & Excise office and chatting with the guy there, proving you're not currently afflicted by a disease and are not a researched criminal, and then, wham bam, you're instantly transported to another census & excise office. (It would be better to have a ship appear on the docks to take you away or something, but that would require touching Bethesdan cells so instead you get a fade to black or something.)

That way it can be done with only scripts and dialogues and do not touch original game content.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Actually Gez, it was gonna be this special chitin gauntlet with CE +10 Beauracracy. (Evidently joking)

Yes, what I meant was what Gez said (you've gotta go and run through a bunch of paperwork, checking you're not infected etc.), but I'd have it so that rather than 'zap' from one C+E office to another, I'd just have a new boat at the appropriate docks, with a sea captain who'd only allow travel if you had your papers. (This would mean modifying Seyda Neen, hence the need for a seperate plug-in)

[Haplo]

Oh okay. And what does osiris mean by 'packed with the main download'? What packed with the main download?