[FCG] Quagmire, exteriors, atmosphere, and the like

Lutemoth · Post by **Lutemoth** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:22 pm

Yes, as you all know (or you may not, I ain't passing judgment), we've got some conceptual planning to do for the Daedric realm of the Quagmire.

To get to the point, we're looking for any and all designs for exteriors within the Quagmire. Geographic forms, walls, objects, plants, ground.. heck, the sky, if you like. In this focused concept, atmospheric pieces are also a bonus. But, don't let that deter you from trying out orthographic pieces, or just basic 2dimensional designs. Like I mentioned previously, any and all artistic input is welcome. Give us your try at that freaky, scary, wet-your-pants inspiring creativity!

To get some of those creative juices flowing, Here are a few links on what we've been talking about Quagmire. Not all of them are entirely relevant, but every bit of information can always help.

[url=http://www.imperial-library.info/book_daedra/index1.shtml#vaernima]Imperial Library's Guide to Daedra, and a keen description on Vaernima[/url]

[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/?p=conceptart&section=19706]TR concept art section on the daedra of the Quagmire[/url]

[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=19884]Internal discussion on flora in the Quagmire[/url]

[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=18032]Internal discussion on interiors for Quagmire[/url]

[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=16427]Lore & Quest discussion on Quagmire[/url]

Quagmire Concept Art So Far
Quagmire gates from Lutemoth:
[url=http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1093/quagmiregatesqy7.jpg][img]http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1093/quagmiregatesqy7.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5548/gifteradviceig1.jpg][img]http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5548/gifteradviceig1.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Quagmire wall from Lutemoth:
[url=http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/3567/quagmirewallexampleht5.jpg][img]http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/3567/quagmirewallexampleht5.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Quagmire carved rocks from Morden:
[url=http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2324/quagmirestatueslogy3.jpg][img]http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2324/quagmirestatueslogy3.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7834/quagmirestatues2lobf7.jpg][img]http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7834/quagmirestatues2lobf7.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2891/qmrockstatue01hd5.jpg][img]http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2891/qmrockstatue01hd5.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1859/qmrockstatue02gv1.jpg][img]http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1859/qmrockstatue02gv1.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5685/qmrockstatue03nf0.jpg][img]http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5685/qmrockstatue03nf0.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1277/qmrockstatue04ch7.jpg][img]http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1277/qmrockstatue04ch7.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/7289/qmrockstatue05tm8.jpg][img]http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/7289/qmrockstatue05tm8.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img210.imageshack.us/my.php?image=qmrockstatue06ya4.jpg][img]http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1695/qmrockstatue06ya4.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=qmrockstatue07ty3.jpg][img]http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6623/qmrockstatue07ty3.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=qmrockstatue08av6.jpg][img]http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/7734/qmrockstatue08av6.th.jpg[/img][/url]
And from Elfane:
[url=http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/457/stonesrn9.jpg][img]http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/457/stonesrn9.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Quagmire swamp from Harke:
[url=http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quagmirexc4.jpg][img]http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5108/quagmirexc4.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Quagmire floor texture concepts from Lute and Morden:
[url=http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9631/pahoeflowrt1.jpg][img]http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9631/pahoeflowrt1.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4673/trqmlava2ece7.jpg][img]http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4673/trqmlava2ece7.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trqmtest033qx6.jpg][img]http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9153/trqmtest033qx6.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Quagmire tree from Elfane:
[url=http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8760/quagsn0.jpg][img]http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/8760/quagsn0.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Quagmire plant from Harke:
[url=http://img389.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eyestalk1ie3.jpg][img]http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/9562/eyestalk1ie3.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Quagmire rock formations from Eldarion:
[url=http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quagmirerocknh7.jpg][img]http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/999/quagmirerocknh7.th.jpg[/img][/url] [url=http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quaqmirerock2jz1.png][img]http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/3461/quaqmirerock2jz1.th.png[/img][/url]
Quagmire swamp from Eldarion:
[url=http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quagmiredd2.jpg][img]http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1268/quagmiredd2.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Quagmire dog/bear/starfish monster from Lighter:
[url=http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quagmiredogbearcopyrf2.png][img]http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2334/quagmiredogbearcopyrf2.th.png[/img][/url]
Quagmire forest from Lighter:
[url=http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quagmireforestni1.png][img]http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/1797/quagmireforestni1.th.png[/img][/url]
Quagmire clutter from Lighter:
[url=http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quagmireclutter1fz2.png][img]http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3328/quagmireclutter1fz2.th.png[/img][/url]

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:25 am

The fist step is deciding on the geography and environment of Quagmire. We need a suitably scary set of meshes in which to showcase our cycle of terrible situations.

Some quick dictionary definitions of Quagmire.

1 : soft miry land that shakes or yields under the foot
2 : a difficult, precarious, or entrapping position

1. a soft wet area of low-lying land that sinks underfoot

1. Land with a soft muddy surface.
2. A difficult or precarious situation; a predicament.

Strangely enough, Black Marsh comes to mind when i think about Quagmire... but i think we can go a lot further then a dark swamp.

TheGooch · Post by **TheGooch** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:05 am

Well an idea of furthering a "dark muddy wet swamp" would be a "rotting", greyish dark muddy wet swamp. and have it very misty and creatures sort of jump out from the void and attack the player. which would make people wet themselves...
when i say void i mean the mist but its really hard to see anything in it, but not so much that its too difficult to find their way. perhaps even misty "spots" like the path isnt very misty/or not at all. but when the player goes "off road" then its harder to traverse.

Perhaps some of the music in QM is like a persons heartbeat racing faster/harder and louder and some of the creatures can shreak/scream really highpitchedly and that would scare the player.

it probably to get the best result for a dark setting, it is always nighttime(even though it could be 9am).

I dont think Quagmire would be humanly described ie not dictionary -->
quotage
1 : soft miry land that shakes or yields under the foot
2 : a difficult, precarious, or entrapping position
1. a soft wet area of low-lying land that sinks underfoot
1. Land with a soft muddy surface.
2. A difficult or precarious situation; a predicament.

but our view/beth view...
or call it "the HammerFell take on the quagmire."

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:15 pm

Everyone knows I'm not a good drawer but I doodled some ideas: 2 plants and Im resurrecting my high priestess outfit cuz I think it would work for Quagmire. The trees are shown without foliage, plus I imagined them with fruit which would be in the shape of fetuses. The idea comes from Greek mythology but I called them Lavinian trees because of Shakespeares Lavinia from Titus. Also the trees would come with sounds attached to them, instead of rustling trees like in Cyrodiil, these trees would make weeping sounds, very crazy-like.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/Hemitheon/QuagmireConcepts.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k315/Hemitheon/scan0002.jpg

I've tried to draw what I thought architecture would look like but I suck so I'll describe it.

I imagine Quagmire to be sumptious in a dark gothic sense. There would be a u-shaped basilica of blackish blue stone. The courtyard would have the image of the Quagmire eye, the courtyard would also be inlaid with reflective gold. Columns would be made of lapis but carved into twisting writhing beings ascending, similar to but distinct from Trajan's Column. The windows would be quite grandiose doors and doorjambs would reflect the overall theme of the Quagmire Eye. This would be one of the Gifter places of worship. Inside the structure would be 3 halls. One would be for the oracle who simply sits there with her mouth open always. From her mouth comes voices of the dead and the realms beyond Oblivion. Another room would be a museum. Vaernima or one of her high-ups is a collecter of all things humans, organs, skin, eyes. The final room is the central chamber, a temple devoted to Vaernima herself. Before the statue is a pit with incense fuming (burning corpses) upward towards the sky which is always night. Should the player desire to speak with Vaernima all he need do is pray before her shrine which is an empty chair and she will appear.

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:56 pm

[url=http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cubicspacenightmarepi1.jpg][img]http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/1324/cubicspacenightmarepi1.th.jpg[/img][/url]

I've scanned the work "Cubic space division" by M.C.Escher, and colored it to show how the interior would work.

I envision a dungeon so large that part of it is in the mist (seen from the places in the center that are accessible by the player). He has to move horizontally and vertically to get to the other end of it. The horizontal parts have baddies on them.

Lutemoth · Post by **Lutemoth** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:18 pm

The way I always imagined the Quagmire has always turned out very dry. Well, dry with small dirty pools here and there, looming tree structures that boggle the mind. Grey-blue walls that yawn upward without break for an edge, etched and ragged with long scars that make you undecided if it's either dried skin or bloated wood bark. an organic mess of the mind that forms into a pattern, like that of a nautilus spiral. A realm with staring eyes, both symbolic stone and blinking flesh, that drills into you. An inescapable room without enclosure. One would sooner be shed of their own self before leaving the Quagmire.

(is it just me, or do we become somewhat poetic when we talk about Vaernima's realm?)

[url=http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1093/quagmiregatesqy7.jpg][img]http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1093/quagmiregatesqy7.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/3567/quagmirewallexampleht5.jpg][img]http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/3567/quagmirewallexampleht5.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://3quarksdaily.blogs.com/3quarksdaily/images/2007/07/21/millipede.jpg]Millipede inspiration[/url]

[url=http://xahlee.org/SpecialPlaneCurves_dir/Spiral_dir/_p/793px-NautilusCutawayLogarithmicSpiral.jpg]nautilus shell[/url]

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:29 pm

I imagine that in some places there are small pools of lavender/purple liquid called Quagma. Quagma emanates from Vaernima, and is literally the stuff nightmares are made of. Critters are continually formed out of it, and devoured at the same time.

gro-Dhal · Post by **gro-Dhal** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:25 pm

I think parts of Quagmire should be reminiscent of places in the 'real' world. Certain places known to the player like, for example, the Market District of the Imperial City would be recreated in an altered (and spookified) form, just like dreams are a distorted version of waking experiences. There should be a blending of the familiar with the bizarre.

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:45 pm

^ the interior list in Lore has that covered. Besides the familiar stuff doesn't need concept art as we have those meshes already.

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:44 am

I think too much of a theme of death is a mistake.

L ots of these things are horrifyign becuase of gore. But what is genuinely scary? Feeling defenceless, or without being able to assess a situation. Personally also, eyeballs scare me immensely. And faces. And these scares all coem from controlling the 5 sense I believe. Since we can only rely on 2 we have to exploit them massively.

I was thinking the interior woudl be pitch black, and torches will be necessary but will still do little to penetrate the dark. Night eye also will do little.

I do not know how this would work but throughout the winding pathways of the interiors which need to be reasonably disorientating there will be viewpoitns at which when you are walking down a small tunnel will give you a perfect view of a petrifying face.

Sounds can also be used to great effect obviosuly with logn refrains of sound only to erupt into some sort of piercing noise. This can even be from a Daedra. Or perhaps in certain missions from an ally you didn't expect.

And touch can't be done really, unless we rely on the inventory or screen effects. I can imagien you are walkign down a dark corridor only to hear the sound of your armour being taken off, and to find you are stripped down to your loin cloth. That also appeals (or rather doesn't) to the vulnerbale feeling.

Lutemoth · Post by **Lutemoth** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:50 am

Ã‚Â£ is quite right, and by the amount of description that each of us brings, a majority of this can be broken down to textures and atmosphere. Some of the best scare factors I've seen were in really early games, where they used a simple disturbing sound which would make you turn in that direction, find nothing, and see that the room has changed while you had moved away. Beside the fun daedra we have lines up, beside any textures, rooms, designs, or what-have-you that'll make the horrid beauty of this sphere, the best tool we have to hold it together and freak the hell out of anyone is disorientation, uneasiness, and confusion. The most noted scary games (and movies)don't crutch on gore or monsters, but the expectation of something worse.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:18 am

Do you guys understand how quagmire is supposed to go down? There are no interiors at all.

You need a minimal set to make variations on a single theme: a field with a hill. At the top of the hill is a sigil stone. As the player begins to ascend the hill, the nightmares begin. After a while, they end and the player is back in the field and ascends to get the stone. The field is, of course, filled with gifters and scamps and what have you. You guys do remember the nightmares right?

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:32 am

^ So we're no longer going with the Lore & Quests stuff?!

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:27 pm

Well thats about as scary as the realm of Oblivion.

Just a hill? Seems a bit of a shame.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:23 pm

lb003g0676 wrote:Just a hill? Seems a bit of a shame.

You can see it as "only a hill" or you can see it as "a hill which "teleports" you to various nightmares as you attempt to climb it"...

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:36 pm

Yeah, the "just a hill" part comes at the end of the nightmares, and there are still hidden quagmire creatures attempting to feast on your flesh and all. Complete with no music for an eerie silence.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:57 pm

I agree with sload's take on Quagmire. Simple is good, simple can be scarey, and it will force us to be more creative. More importantly, we have plenty of creative people, but only about three who can implement those ideas in the game engine. We don't have the resources to create our own shivering isles. We can have a number of nightmarish models for our terror scenarios, but keeping it simple makes it feesible.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:02 pm

Haplo wrote:Complete with no music for an eerie silence.

How are you going to make that happen?

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:46 pm

Magic!(ka)

Though it should would be nice *coughbethesdacough*. I keep forgetting about the way music works; does regional work or not? If yes we could have a blank track play, or a track of just wind or something. If no... cross our fingers?

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:14 am

Sload and Morden are 100% right.

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:23 am

I'm a 100% confused. Is the concept art only for the hill?

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:44 am

Is a hill the only thing you can encounter in your RPG nightmares? Let me answer this qestion. No.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:56 am

The nightmares belong in the Lore thread, Harke.

This is for "just the hill." That means we need, you know, an idea for what quagmire nature looks like. We just dont need, you know, buildings and interiors and shit like that.

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:52 am

I see.

I think basic is good if thats what our technical limist are at, which they unfortunately are. Althoguh on a positive note, atleast the work that gets done is of fantastic quality.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:36 am

Made these statues up the other night. My idea was that they would be roughly carved from rock formations. Vaguely human shapes contorted into poses of terror and anguish. I may redesign them with a more primitive shape, so they are easier to model.

[url=http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2324/quagmirestatueslogy3.jpg][img]http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2324/quagmirestatueslogy3.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7834/quagmirestatues2lobf7.jpg][img]http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7834/quagmirestatues2lobf7.th.jpg[/img][/url]
And no they are not singing

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:43 am

Is that CA from Morden! No, it cant be...

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:21 pm

How come everyone is ignoring this thread all of a sudden? Did everyone retreat to the exciting literature forum? Keep the ideas coming.

Lutemoth, poke people with a stick and keep things rolling

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:52 pm

I'm about to be dragged off to some old tart's birthday party, so I can't help you now. I plan to draw a level schematic and the hill itself.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:16 pm

I like them Morden

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:45 pm

Harke the Apostle wrote:I plan to draw a level schematic and the hill itself.

Why?

There are multiple hills, just like there are multiple planes in TESIV. Each of them is going to be made by a modder.

All this thread is asking for is ideas for the flora, fauna, and terrain of the environment these hills will be made with.

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:41 pm

Sload wrote: Why?

To explain what I drew.

[url=http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=quagmirexc4.jpg][img]http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5108/quagmirexc4.th.jpg[/img][/url]

In this particular vision, the swamp consists mostly of taller-than-an-Altmer reeds with here and there a small tree and ankle-deep water. Towards the hill there are more tiny islands and rocks and the reeds are gradually replaced by rushes and other low swamp plants. The hill itself has a rough uneven spiral 'road' of rocks that end in something like a platform with the cauldron and the stone on it. (Or whatever should be on top of the hill).

It's always misty there, and here and there lie castaway items like an overgrown chest and a sunken boat.
The Daedric Gate is somewhere in a clearing between the reeds.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:11 am

Harke the Apostle wrote:the stuff nightmares are made of.

This is a good idea.

That is, having the water in Quagmire be described in some description of the place (a splash screen perhaps?) as "the stuff nightmares are made of" is a good idea.

However, quagma is a horrible name (and it needs no name, really), for what I imagine are the exact reasons you chose it (the relation to both quagmire and magma) and having monsters come from it in the level is very impractical. Leaving it at some sort of dark purply substance that is said to be what nightmares of made of is splendid.

However, I don't like the swampy idea you have. The Quagmire the Gifter belongs to is an arid environment, replete with purples and grays and dark blues, filled with great rocks (Morden, the faces in the rocks is an excellent idea) and scatterings of dead trees and dead grass.

Lutemoth · Post by **Lutemoth** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:39 am

This I like

On the idea of a dry, deadland style of hills, I finally came across what I was thinking of for groundcover!

[url=http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9631/pahoeflowrt1.jpg][img]http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9631/pahoeflowrt1.th.jpg[/img][/url]

simply a ropey pahoehoe cold lava recoloured with an ashy blue-grey wash. Used the right way, it won't look like dead lava, but a weird skin-like texture that aughta look good in nearby dark-magma pools and shallows. What'cha think?

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:04 am

I think thats an excellent idea, especially if you can make it look like old skin.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:58 am

Its a great photo, but it will be difficult to use it in a texture. Parts of that photo can be cropped out and layered into a texture, but its use would be very limited. Either we find a large number of high quality lava photos which we can make into textures, or we make our own from scratch, which can be used in a set.

Lutemoth, if you draw a 2d version of the skin look, I'm pretty sure I could build a texture set from it.

I was playing around with photoshop and created a Quagmire themed texture.. not necessarily for the ground but it could be useful.

[url=http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4673/trqmlava2ece7.jpg][img]http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4673/trqmlava2ece7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:28 pm

I think that texture could fit well on anything from rocks to the ground to creatures, to a special object if we have any for Quagmire. Looks spacey

Nice use of the plastic wrap (I think that's what it is), Morden

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:58 pm

I went: Difference Clouds, Find Edges, adjusted light and contrast, added a blue Hard Light layer, then used white paint on a Soft Light layer to create elevation. Thats the short simple sounding version. I wouldn't mind learning about the plastic wrap thing though.. that's one of the original ideas i was going for.

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:31 pm

Just out of curiosity, what colors do you see when you apply difference clouds? Mine used to be blue and white (like a cloudy sky) but ever since a while back (maybe when I installed CS2 actually, but I really dont remember), the colors have been brown/black and white.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:02 pm

If animated wouldn't Morden's texture look like super cool quagma?

Lutemoth · Post by **Lutemoth** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:57 pm

couldn't help but do this image, heheh. Thought it'd be appropriate to place here:
[url=http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5548/gifteradviceig1.jpg][img]http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5548/gifteradviceig1.th.jpg[/img][/url]

as for a repeating 'floorskin' texture, it shouldn't be too hard. took me, like, twenty seconds to colourize it