The Old Goldmoor Music Thread

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:11 pm

So, as part of the "audio revival" I'm finally going to start this conversation that I intended to start a long time ago

First, we need to discuss what the music of Goldmoor is going to sound like. This can be accompanied by a discussion of what the musical regions should be. I'm currently favoring the idea of having music for the near west (Goldmoor, Corten Mountains, Helkori Plains) the mountains (Dragontail, and Helkori mountains) and desert music (Alik'r and Alik-i). PS- Quagmire also.

Secondly we need to decide how many tracks to include per region. We also should discuss here what we are going to include in the way of Combat music- since there is no way to create regional combat music.

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My idea for Goldmoor is firstly that it shouldn't be too exotic. You're just over the border from Cyrodil, I think the musical shift should be gradual.

My original plan was for Goldmoor to have long droning bass notes and an emphasis on reed instruments like this:

http://media.putfile.com/Goldmoor-blooms

I now think that's pretty darn boring and doesn't fit very well with the Cyrodil music. After getting to play OB a little I came up with this:

http://media.putfile.com/nedic-voices

Basically, I tried to imitate the style of the game, but I added one exotic foreground instrument. The piece itself isn't anything unusual but it's given an exotic feel by the manipulated viola solo. Some people have said that they feel like the choral sound and the dissonance make them think of dungeon music- but I think if you listen to the music of the original game you'll find that the explore tracks have that quality (check it out here http://www.directsong.com/)

I'm still not sure on town music.

For dungeon music- I want a less musical quality. More just an assortment of creepy music-like sounds. Check out the creepy stuff in the Stirk music thread- especially Pug's.

Since we cant do regional combat music- I think we should do a small handful of general combat tracks that could fit anywhere- including Cyrodil.

I think we should have about 5 explore, 5 town, and 5 dungeon tracks per music region. That's not a lot, but we don't have a lot of active composers either

Also: I think 5-10 combat tracks would be a nice addition.
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GM Music:

Explore: Nedic Voices, Nedic Roads, Dry Gold, Goldmoor Blooms, (tentative: Feildstar).

Town: Harbor Life

Dungeon:

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:13 pm

Do you think it'd be cool to have a sort of organ/fugue thing going for the chapel at Stirk? I've got something in the works that might be appropriate. Just a sort of soft, soothing organ melody?

Orix · Post by **Orix** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:19 am

Number of tracks
I think the number of music tracks per regions is a good figure, although if people are able to contribute Hammerfell style music, by all means have the numbers flexible. Also, if we have weather and time of day specificity, that may change the numbers a bit (see last point).

Combat music
This is tricky. I wish there was some script to sort it out. But if nothing ever comes to light (and since TR isn't keen on OBSE dependence), the idea of battle tracks that suit both Hammerfell and Cyrodil would be a good alternative though.

Dungeon Music
Hmm, a bit conflicted over having just eerie sounds. It would be good for Quagmire, but for the unique types of dungeons Hammerfell has, something just a little bit more instrumental than what you've made so far would be interesting to see. "Dwemer experiment" using the clanging noises as instruments is a cool idea, which could be taken further for instance.

Public Music
Well, Oblivion generally has more lively music, quite uplifting. That second sample Gess posted with the crazy ass middle-eastern flute and percussion might be interesting, to see if it works. It might to over the top, it might be awesome, let's investigate!

Nedic Voices
You wanted proper feedback on [url=http://media.putfile.com/nedic-voices]Nedic Voices[/url]. The instruments: I love the viola, suits the province definitely. The "vocal" sounds make the piece quite mysterious. It is indeed more interesting than "Goldmoor blooms"

Was the aim of Nedic Voices to reflect Redguard assimilation of Nedic music? While I suggested it might be dungeon music earlier, it could be used well in areas with ancient nedic ruins/dungeons (Hammerfell should have them), and music more foreboding, but reflective of Nedic Voices could be used in the dungeon itself.

Do I think it suits Goldmoor? Yes. It would especially make really atmospheric introductory music when the player takes their first steps through the gate and into the province. Although as I said in your slew of music thread, the air it gives is distinctly desolate, but suitable for explore none the less.

Regions and/or Factions in Music
Macar, since Dex was curious earlier, and since you know the most about the musical style we're trying to achieve, what is the range of instruments we're going to attribute to Hammerfell? Which of those instruments are going to be reminiscent of forebear, lhotun, crown and dunedweller culture? Or will music only change with the geographical regions?

In my opinion the Alik'r should have very basic tribal music in my mind, to match the isolation and indicative of the simple dune dwellers. And depending on Forebear, Lhotun, or Crown presence in regions, a mix of solely Traditional Redguard (Crown), Traditional Redguard/Imperial mix (Lhotun), with "NeoRedguard"/Redguard music with Imperial influence (Forebear).

We could make Dragonstar quite unique. the Skyrim half could have nordic, and Hammerfell half have Yokudan instruments, OR we could have them mixed. Things like that would be tough to pull off, but amazing for creating an atmosphere of tension.

Time/Weather in Music
I was thinking, if it is possible, to do a Daggerfall style music system that checks the weather, time of day and such, which could determine the type of music. I think it would be awesome if we can pull it off. What do you think? Luckily, we don't even need to come up with a script:
[url]http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=16390&highlight=script+music[/url]

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:30 am

I think we should shoot for about 5 of each type per region to begin with. If we get an influx of compitant musicians that can change- but at the moment we have a very small group of active composers (namely: me).

As for nedic voices- the title is pretty much arbitrary. I was just trying to think of a title that would pretain to hammerfell- and it had a lot of voices in it.

Dwemer experament is exactly what I mean by non musical. It's music but it doesnt.

I would love to have faction music, weather music and all that jazz, but we need to start with the basic stuff.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:31 am

shure I think that could work- post it and lets have a listen.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:06 am

I liked Nedic voices a lot

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Thu May 24, 2007 6:24 pm

http://media.putfile.com/nedic-voices-20

Any ideas?

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Thu May 24, 2007 7:41 pm

I think once GM is generated, that should be added right away. Who composed this?

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Thu May 24, 2007 9:06 pm

Noirgrim wrote: Who composed this?

Are you joking? Me, silly

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Thu May 24, 2007 9:42 pm

I stand in awe... I'm really jealous of you.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri May 25, 2007 12:26 am

Great stuff, Macar. I got lost in it twice

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Fri May 25, 2007 12:57 am

Glad everyone's enjoying it. I think I'm going to try a town piece next. I'm not sure how it will sound- I'm thinking about including some Indian tabla drumming- we'll see how that goes.

FUN FACT: Classical Indian music is based on a set of forms and modes called "Raga"

Jale · Post by **Jale** » Fri May 25, 2007 12:47 pm

I would agree with the idea to split up into three musical regions. I like where you are going with the lowland areas, and would like to see this develop. Just for brainstorming purposes:

Mountains
Really I think a nice sparse texture should be the unifying theme with the Mountains, and of course a mighty pedal note or bass ostinato. For example, a piece with a repeated timpani reverberating in the background, with a picollo trilling away mournfully in the higher register.

Deserts
Fast, hard and percussive. Any musical bits here should definitely be dissonant or at least with a ragged timbre. For example, a track revolving around drums with occasional broken chords with two violins a 4th apart with little modulation (vibrato) would be nicely edgy.

Towns
I think the idea of different music for different factions is an interesting one...it need not require necessarily different motifs, simply a change in timbres or styles. That said, personally I would like to see:

Crowns - More raw, percussive and vocal
Lhotunic - 3/4 time signature, busier
Forebear - More strings and refined, more imperial

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:38 pm

I added the file for Nedic Voices- just incase.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:09 am

Could you get Harbour life on it for me Macar?

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:19 pm

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:29 pm

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:26 pm

Thanks

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:45 am

Theres the final v of Nedic Roads for you in my thread, Macar

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:38 am

oh yeah. there you go

Orix · Post by **Orix** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:46 pm

Harbour Life is a really well orchestrated track... but... well it sounds a lot like the music in The Hobbit or Fable computer games, in terms of style. Too kinda cutey fantasy style, I don't think it fits Hammerfell at all. Perhaps different instrumentation is in order?

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:19 am

Perhaps it is just the fact that it is not RL. Thanks for the compliment anyway.

On that note, I have great news! I might be able to get some orchestrations recorded. Sure, Its not the best orchestra you can find, but it definately ain't the worst

I'll do my best to get NR and HL recorded if the possiblity is true, but I'm not sure about NV since they have no choir and a lot of it has added effects (which I a sure that Macar could add to the real recording - but maybe not as well).

Just remember that it is not that likely

EDIT: I listened to all of them again, and HL does stand out a bit, and NV still sounds too exotic (thats just me, Macar-I still think its brilliant), but since (I sincerely hope) Macar is going to make something with some themes from HL it should make this bunch more 'unified'

wogya · Post by **wogya** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:17 am

The idea of recording a live orchestra might sound ever so wonderful, but I'd be a bit cautious with it. If you have the orchestra, the full set of high quality mics required and an experienced recording technician who can make it right, then you have a chance of making it sound somewhat good. But don't expect it to sound anywhere near the same way as your GPO playback. Some things might sound better and a lot of things will probably sound worse. From experience I can tell that what sounds good in Sibelius usually sounds too thin in live performace (and the woodwinds that sound great above the brass in Sibelius you cannot hear at all in live performance).

However, if you have the musicians and just one good mic, then I can highly recommend that you record a few instruments one by one. You have a lot of woodwind melodies in NR, those would sound great if recorded live. Also, a good trick to make string sections sound alive is to record individually one of each instrument and mix it in with the sample playback of your computer. It tends to give the string lines life and a continuity that cannot be achieved by samples. If you just can get those recorded, I'm sure Geshoku or someone else can mix them in to the original to improve the sound qualityy a lot.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:23 am

Right now the prospect is grim. But there still is a chance

Thanks for the advice!

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:15 pm

Wogya has said what I was thinking. Lots of composition teachers (Wogya's own included) are highly opposed to students using software with playback. I remember when I heard Libby Larsen speak, she was saying that people get unrealistic ideas about what instruments are going to sound like when they compose on the computer, so she thinks people should always write thier peices by hand- so they develop proper audiation skills.

Anyway, if you can make it happen definately go for it but even if you do it might still sound better on the computer- it will mostly depend on the recording quality.

Also- dont show them Nedic Voices. If I ever get anything played by real players I want to make sure it's a lot more fun to play: I will not subject players to boring parts if I can help it. That's something I've always admired Whitacre for- he writes music that's fun to perform. Anyway- before I get side tracked again I will stop writing. Good luck.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:10 am

Thanks Macar

I find that listening to a lot of music - esspecially music with similar style to your own music - keeps your auditory skills at the right level

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:29 pm

added dry gold and Goldmoor blooms: That means we only need one more explore track to meet the bare minimum. So if nobody else is working on one- the next thing I write will be explore and then it will be on to civilized and dungeon music.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:31 am

You write it

For dungeon, why don't we have still?
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=18934&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
(near bottom)

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:12 pm

Now that I've played oblivion more I'd say that the style of the peice fits really well- but I think it needs more disonance- it's good in the begining instead of holding fouths and thirds in the higher strings it needs more tritones and seconds IMHO.

The question remains, however, do we want dungeon music in GM to be the same as vanila? Because I'd say still has nothing to define it from the original music- you could probably slip it in without anyone noticing.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:59 am

I think its not about being defined, but more about being unique. Once I get my holidays I think I might go on a dungeon-music spree if you don't mind.

I find dungeon music easy to write.

jpagel · Post by **jpagel** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:22 am

okay I just whipped something together in like half an hour so the soundfonts are crap... it's sort of a title-screenish thing but mainly just to show you that I actually can compose pretty well.. if it grabs, I'd love to do more stuff for this project, whatever needs to get done.

jym

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:16 pm

Here is that file in a .zip for Jedak.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:43 pm

Hey, that sounds great- sorry I dont have time for a lengthier comment, but I'm on my way out. Sounds like you have the skills but what we'd need from you is music that's a little more suited to ingame music: dungeon, town, or explore music.

Also- please make a showcase!

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:08 am

Thanks haplo, and yes, please make a showcase thread. I will comment in it once you make it

Keep in mind I can't download mp3's directly or use putfile - I'm the nusance of the S&M dep really

evergrey · Post by **evergrey** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:44 am

Sounds great, except that a few of the instruments sound a wee bit too synthesized. 'Course we don't exactly have an orchestra. :/ But I do like the composition!

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:58 pm

Well, we've met the quota for explore music now. The next thing is to get another 4 town tracks, and of course, the 5 dungeon tracks are still up for grabs.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:04 am

Still?

Myaskill · Post by **Myaskill** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:40 pm

OK, I'm a "sax for hire" (TR may use me for free) anyone need me? I've got an uncle with a studio so I don't think that will be a problem. Anyway, anyone need me just send me a message (no jokes please).

Adress is magnusem666@hotmail.com...

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:08 am

Sadly, sax isnt typicaly a useful instrument for this kind of symphonic orchestral music. But, I'll let you know if anything comes up.

Myaskill · Post by **Myaskill** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:28 pm

I suppose it's not common, but it can be used in almost any type of music, just so you know. I've played everything from jazz to ballads, and the sound can differ from genre to genre... But I see your point. Just tell me if you need something. That's all I ask.

Tamriel Rebuilt

The Old Goldmoor Music Thread

The Old Goldmoor Music Thread

Goldmoor Music1

Musical mercenary...

Musical mercenary...