Hammerfell Main Quest Directed Discussion - The Wedding

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Hammerfell Main Quest Directed Discussion - The Wedding

Post by Sload »

So that thread had kinda become irrelevant and wasn't really talking about the mainquest anymore and I thought we should all just shuttup shuttup shuttup for a minute and then consolidate the basic idea of what is going on for Hammerfell and everything and then start over with a fresh slate cause there was a lot of stuff in that thread that wasn't really on topic over the course of its several months and several pages so i hope you get me and understand my decision. Dig, dog? Good.

We've got a pretty bare bones structure for the mainquest right now: the player, by means of assisting in the organization of a wedding between the prince of Skaven and a rich girl from Gilane, which takes place in Sentinel, is introduced to the various leaders of Hammerfell, and is ultimately offered the choice to serve one of them, at which point the quest diverges into 7 different paths.

I realized that because we have a basic idea done, we should focus on a specific part of the quest instead of just having a free for all. Free for alls spread STDs, not cool man!

So, yeah, here's some quotes about the wedding...
In Skaven and Gilane, the big news is the marriage of Gazhran Ei-Shom, son of the utei of Skaven, to Mina m'Damat, a relative of Bendassa and daughter of the richest man in Taneth. This is clearly a political marriage and an attempt at brokering peace between these two cities.
All the leaders will be in attendance. All of them. Lhotun, Treigo, Claviya, Bindasa, Manyei, Yaswha, and Ayansi (haha alternate transliterations!). Because of the obviously dangerous political climate gathering all of them in one place will create, it will take place in Sentinel, and it is implied that the entire thing is at Lhotun's request so he can gather everyone together and remind them that Mongsu mongatu" (*) Mina m'Domma (removing the t, changing the spelling) is more directly stated as being the sister of Bendassa's heir, and his neice.

So, you play Around the World for the wedding preparations (hopefully in a more disguised way than making it obvious), and, by the time of the wedding, you have met all of the leaders. On the day of the wedding, they (and their train) are all in seperate rooms in Lhotun's palace. They all want the player as an aid, and this is where he makes his choice.

(*) Mongsu mongatu is Lhotun's rallying call (see, "Yes we can," "Ready from day one," "Blehhhh, I'm John McCain, I'm 120."). It literally means "We are us," but in a more metaphoric sense, as in, "we the people," "we the world," or, in his case, "we the Yoku." It would probably be translated as, "We are one people," but it also implies, "We are the greatest people."
the assassination becomes the first event if you chose Gilane (making the counselor Bendassa's counselor instead), and instead, clavilla is assassinated at the wedding. Admiral Damasca takes control of the city and you work with him.
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Post by Destiny1773 »

So whats the choice the PC has?
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Post by Thrignar Fraxix »

you choose between the 7 councilors duh.

As for the wedding preparations, I am not sure how we can make that not obviously an around the world type thing.

Some rudimentary ideas for quest archetypes possibly usable for the preparation quests:

X needs a wedding gift! Go kill this unique creature and collect its head for a plaque.

X wants to give money, but is a cheapskate and and asshole. Go around to all the merchants and inform them of a new tax.

X's caravan has a sick horse/camel/person, cure it with some rare hillside herb.

X's city has a particularly dangerous criminal on the loose that has issued threats against the councilor. Kill him so that it doesn't look like X is fleeing from the threats.

X just REALLY does not want to go. Persuade or blackmail them into going.

X fears for his/her safety. Perhaps persuade, or hire extra guards for him/her. *note: SHOULDN'T BE A POSSIBLE ASSASSINATION TARGET (at least not during the wedding)*

I only can think of 6 ATM, and I don't think that even half, if any, will be used, but yeah.
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Post by Sload »

Destiny1773 wrote:So whats the choice the PC has?
That's where you come in.

I'm asking you guys to throw out ideas for what the player does while under the direction of the wedding planner. That's all.
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Post by Destiny1773 »

Oh.
I thought I missed something and was being stupid.
Turns out I was. =/

Quest Idea:
PC takes this quest from an evil deity worship statue thing.
He is to allow this wedding to happen, but make it hilariously
terrible(kind of like the quest in Oblivion where you cast a spell on a person at a dinner in a towns castle. Can I be any bit more vague? Well, I played this
quest last year.)
The player is not told how to do this, but given a few spells/hints on what to do.
A few ideas of something fun to do that only somewhat messes up the wedding; nothing that makes the wedding not work:
A-
put a large amount of alcohol in someone's drink.
B-
Exchange someone's dress with clothes of a beggar.
C-
Put a blackmail note in a person's pocket that is signed(forged) by his rival.
D-
Steal all the food on the dining table.
etc.

Minor Quest Idea-
PC finds out that someone isn't having a good time because he is worried about what is happening in his city. If the PC is good, he tries to persuade the guy to not worry, as going to his city would take a large amount of time.
If the PC is bad, he tries to get the guy to be worried sick. The guy would travel back to his city, and not take part in the wedding.
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Post by Thrignar Fraxix »

Destiny1773 wrote:Quest idea 1: Snip
Too closely resembles that oblivion quest and not really what we are looking for.
Destiny1773 wrote:Quest idea 2: Snip
The point is you are getting people to attend. Getting them to not attend isn't really an option beyond not doing the quest. (because if you did then you would fail the quest)
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Post by TheGooch »

I have an idea, the priest who is "wedding them" becomes ill, and you need to find a another priest who is willing to do this or maybe just heal him. in other terms complications arise with the priest or someone needed for the ceremony and the PC has to heal/fix/do something for them to make sure they attend.

oh, and a chase quest were you follow hints/trails of clues and stuff to find the killer.
ie left really intricate arrow in clavilla's heart. then taking said arrow to marksman, she/he refers you to someone else who does know about said arrow then tells you X person makes them, PC goes to X to find out who bought it, X tells of Z and then PC goes and asks beggars or somepeople about Z and then you go to Z's house (break in) and there plans and detailed books/notes and stuff on clavilla and stuff. the house is actually abandoned. Z is running for his life i guess. In said notes/books there are some ruins/ other abandoned building and maybe he is there. PC finds intact camp where more of the arrows are found. PC waits for Z, and PC attacks untill certain point where Z yeilds and PC asks questions and stuff. after which PC can say DIE NOW MOFO, or COME WITH ME YOUR GOING TO JAIL BIATCH. then theres a public hanging of Z (or faces firing squad). (hehe either way he dies). and the MQ can progress from there. Z is like a subordantant of some other person which PC gets clues for the next Quest.
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Post by Gnomey »

TheGooch wrote:I have an idea, the priest who is "wedding them" becomes ill, and you need to find a another priest who is willing to do this or maybe just heal him.
Speaking of which, how do we know how weddings in Hammerfell are handled? The only source I know of is the Origin of Cyrus comic... Here: [url]http://www.imperial-library.info/rgbooks/page.shtml?20[/url]

As you can see it's in a temple, (and hopefully Hammerfell will have a temple large enough for the royal ceremony, if not might there be a large enough chapel in the palace?), and for a rather poor family it seems to be pretty ornate, which means that we'll probably have to go all the way with the decoration for the royal wedding.

Unique wedding clothes would also be nice, but would probably be too much to ask for. The priest should probably be the head, or possibly the second or even third in line as the head priest and (maybe) the second in line don't approve of the wedding and don't want to be the ones to bring it about. (No real quest here, as the head priest would probably hold is ground, but actually...)

Idea 1: Maybe the player has to ways to do it: Console whoever is organizing the wedding of the fact or finding another very important and more willing priest to come in his stead. The Forebears weren't very happy with the old one, and the situation won't really change if you bring another Crown-leaning priest, but if you bring a Forebear priest the Crowns, especially the head priest, will be offended. Perhaps if you claim to have found a Forbear priest who could do it instead he will become indignant and insist on doing it himself? Or at least making the second in command do it?
TheGooch wrote:oh, and a chase quest were you follow hints/trails of clues and stuff to find the killer.
ie left really intricate arrow in clavilla's heart. then taking said arrow to marksman, she/he refers you to someone else who does know about said arrow then tells you X person makes them, PC goes to X to find out who bought it, X tells of Z and then PC goes and asks beggars or somepeople about Z and then you go to Z's house (break in) and there plans and detailed books/notes and stuff on clavilla and stuff. the house is actually abandoned. Z is running for his life i guess. In said notes/books there are some ruins/ other abandoned building and maybe he is there. PC finds intact camp where more of the arrows are found. PC waits for Z, and PC attacks untill certain point where Z yeilds and PC asks questions and stuff. after which PC can say DIE NOW MOFO, or COME WITH ME YOUR GOING TO JAIL BIATCH. then theres a public hanging of Z (or faces firing squad). (hehe either way he dies). and the MQ can progress from there. Z is like a subordantant of some other person which PC gets clues for the next Quest.
I think that the investigation was supposed to be handled in a more official manner, seeing as a duchess was murdered. I don't think that a long chase quest with the player as the protagonist is really what Sload is looking for, though I could be wrong.

Idea 1: I was rather thinking that the player would make a few official and a few unofficial inquiries, report back, some Forebear troops would scout out a location that you think is important and one will return to tell you something (there is nothing suspicious going on, (wrong location), it seems to have been shortly abandoned or it is suspicious and they are ready to move in.

Then you have to present your evidence to the person heading the investigation and request permission to take action. If he gives it you can go to the scouts and tell them that it's time to move. If it can be properly done, the coup would be a really nice part of the quest. (How hard is it to make the various scouts take different paths to the location and then, when all are in place, attack? I don't think that it should be too hard what with schedules...)

You might have gotten a wrong location, in which case you are pushed into a pretty tight spot as the assassin will no doubt be alerted, and must now be tracked down again, and even then it will be hard to get him into jail. If you get it right, which can even happen if they say that the location is not suspicious, they will arrest the assassin and bring him to prison to be interrogated. Afterwards the questgiver might or might not mention what the assassin told them.

I'm undecided as to whether the false locations should be innocent, or at least not related to the quest, (wouldn't it be fun for the location to be the base of an old redguard man with a long history of Smuggling who thinks that you are out to get him and attempts to flee?), or whether they were actually set up by the assassins. Possibly a mix of both I'm also unsure as to how the clues would be found, as the assassins seem to be professional and wouldn't leave something like a special arrow lying around. (Not as stupid with the Dark Brotherhood, who are supposed to be assassins for hire, as it is for the Kogotong, who are commonly known to be in the service of Crowns).

Anyway, what I had meant to ask about is what the bride and groom think of the wedding? Do they support it, due either to their actually liking each other or appreciating the political importance of the marriage and not completely despising each other, or are they both/is one of them bent on putting a stop to this? I'll post some more (and hopefully better) ideas when I know more about their opinions.
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Post by Thrignar Fraxix »

perhaps in investigating the murder you are merely one of several people sent out by the investigating party. You are told to go to a location. You scout it out and perhaps are attacked by a crazy loner (not the assassin) then report back to the castle to find that someone else found the guy and managed to haul him/her back alive. I love the idea of an execution by firing squad as it would be rather impressive to watch ingame.

Another thought. perhaps the investigating party doesn't think highly of the PC and brushes them off by telling them to check some worthless cave. (cave could truly be worthless or the home of an enemy as was suggested by gnomey)
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Crazy Noble

Post by Hillbilly Man »

There could be some crazy noble that likes the girl thats getting married and is throughing one major fit to stop the wedding claiming that it is a political marriage and trying to stir up as much dirt as possible. And he even could go as far as trying to stop the councillers from showing up by briging them and everything else possible. That could be the story behind one of the councilors not showing up. When you boost his disposition up he would admit that he had been bribed and threatened by the noble. And that the noble had attempted to somehow stop the wedding, maby by poisioning the priest. When you report back to whoever your working for you could tell him about this. Then he has you go find the evidence and when you find some evidence you have him arrested and the wedding goes peacefully once you find the preacher. Hope that isn't too retarded. :)
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Post by TheGooch »

Well the wedding would be after a series of quests that help get it ready, and the royal family trust you enough afterwards to let you be one of several people who search for the assassin, seeing as your the PC, your the one good enough to find him (NPC's are too stupid). I say only several because an army looking for one guy is a waste of money (and they could be protecting the city) and easily spotted so the Z guy could just pack up and leave. but 4 or 5 single people (mainly trackers/hunters) looking for one guy, whos to say that Z guy will know who they are and what they are looking for. (they could go deep under cover and hunt deer while looking for Z). And TF neither execution style has been done(ingame), so maybe we save them for two really important executions.
like firing squad for Z and hanging for Z's boss.


when i have some pre wedding quest ideas (other than the priest one) ill post again.
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Post by Username »

A good wedding needs lots of food and drinks, which, hopefully, are not poisoned. So the PC can help find/buy

A) exotic food
B) the best wine in the province
C) a cook (Hmm, i wonder if the PC can somehow qualify as a cook himself)
D) a poison tester ( Perhaps an eccentric alchemist that knows a thousand poisons and a thousand and one uses for each. That kind can smell a good poison a mile away =) Or the PC can try to qualify as a poison tester and try each food on the table at the wedding and try to survive the horrible effects it will have on him.)

I'm not really sure about the PC being a cook/poison tester/both. This would be a good way to attend a wedding without being invited by some noble because the PC is a "hero" and all. It would be hard to do though.
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Post by gro-Dhal »

Either the bride or the groom has a lover who intends to disrupt the wedding. They need to be paid off, scared off or killed. On the orders of the relevant parent.

One of the VIP guests (not one of the nobles) is guilty of a serious crime- maybe he was a gangster in the Imperial City. He has friends among the Hammerfell aristocracy so he's been granted diplomatic immunity when at the wedding, but the Imperial Legion has agents waiting to arrest him as he arrives or after he leaves. The PC has to bribe or mislead the agents (maybe he has to figure out who they are first as they're in plainclothes), or possibly he has to help smuggle this guy in in disguise. The dude knows he's risking arrest by attending, but he's doing it as a big 'fuck you' to the Imperials.
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Post by Gnomey »

Assuming that the person who gives you the quest to track down the assassin is present at the dinner, how about he gets some death threats himself and asks the player to try the food for him? I'm not sure whether the player should get poisoned when he agrees, but if he does he'll either have to try to last out, to find a priest or to heal himself.

He also doesn't have to eat it, for example if he is good with alchemy he might notice the effects. (I'm not sure if this can properly be done, as my Oblivion character doesn't do much with alchemy. AFAIK only the first effect of an ingredient applies and all of the effects of a potion can be seen no matter what your level of alchemy is, but if that isn't the case with the potion then that could be used. Otherwise scripting will probably be required to add the effect...)

When the player comes to his decision he can either say that it's safe or that it isn't, and if he says that it's safe and it actually isn't then the questline is obviously closed off to the player due to the questgiver's death. Otherwise the questgiver thanks the player for his bravery etc. and, when the body of Clavilla is discovered, trusts you enough to ask you to join in in the search.

As for the earlier quest, I suggest that the player gets greeted when he passes the door of the palace by a herald or whoever they'd use in Hammerfell. He tells the player that a lot of help is required with the preparations of the wedding and that if he would lend a hand as ~random servant~'s helper he would be well payer. The random servant would get a lot of requests from leaders for this and that and he'll tell the player to go instead. Eventually the player will prove himself useful to the leaders in one way or another and they'll ask him to attend to them at the wedding, or something like that. That's when the questline splits up into the seven different paths.
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Post by Username »

Gnomey wrote: He also doesn't have to eat it, for example if he is good with alchemy he might notice the effects. (I'm not sure if this can properly be done, as my Oblivion character doesn't do much with alchemy. AFAIK only the first effect of an ingredient applies and all of the effects of a potion can be seen no matter what your level of alchemy is, but if that isn't the case with the potion then that could be used. Otherwise scripting will probably be required to add the effect...)
Probably scripting. Because even if the player eats a poisonous ingredient the most damage it can do is about 5-10 hp. Two possible ways to do it are

A) a script effect that is named "Burden" (too bad its icon doesn't look like some harmless effect) Though it has to be first on an ingredient you can place it at the bottom of a wine bottles effects.
B) a script on the ingredient/wine bottle that has

OnEquip
"someactivator".cast "megauberhorrible_deadlypoison!!!" player
end


It would be great if throughout the MQ most people gave the PC ordinary tasks that he could do in his own "shady government agent" style. For example the PC is asked to deliver some lettuce/potatoes from a farmer.

"We have some lettuce in the storage at the moment, but i think we will need more. Go to the X farm and bring 100 lettuce heads we hired the farmer to grow."

But the whole crop at that farm died because of an unusually cold winter/hail/i don't know. And if the PC comes back empty handed the farmer will be beheaded. So

A) the farmer gets beheaded (sad and not very interesting but honest in some way)
B) the PC claims he lost them on his way/got robbed/some other reason why he doesn't have the lettuce and pays a fine.(if he has high speechcraft he may even find a way to lie himself out of the situation)
C) the PC somehow gets 100 lettuce heads somewhere
(personally, i'm an insane food collector and have tons of ingredients stocked in my houses. It's not that hard to get so many.)
D) the PC remembers that the questgiver said something about having some lettuce heads in storage, steals them and gives them to the questgiver (imagine the irony)

"While you were away someone stole the lettuce we had in storage! We desperately need those lettuce heads now. Oh! You got them! Good, i'll send some extra coin to the farmer for this timely shipment."

E) some other way out of the situation involving unnecessary bloodshed and overwhelming bloodthirst.

So if the farmer is still alive after the quest he asks the PC.

"Who are you, kind stranger?"

And the PC answers

1) "I'm the Champion of Cyrodiil!"(or something less precise but more epic)
Answer:
"The Champion, huh? Running errands at the castle kitchen? Hehehe. Good one! Well, i thank you ... Champion ... hehehe."
2) "Just a thief."(if he stole the lettuce)
Answer:
"Well... At least you're an honest thief. I thank you. I hope your luck will always be with you, kind stranger."
3) etc. i hope you get the point of this
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Post by Jondare »

as i see it sounds like it doesn't mean anything what of the seven persons you choose, as you will be sent out looking for Z no matter who you choose
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Post by TheGooch »

for the player to be a part of the wedding maybe he/she could be a caterer not really do anything ingame terms but as a RP element (the reason the PC is there.)
Thriggy wrote: you choose between the 7 councilors duh.

As for the wedding preparations, I am not sure how we can make that not obviously an around the world type thing.

Some rudimentary ideas for quest archetypes possibly usable for the preparation quests:

X needs a wedding gift! Go kill this unique creature and collect its head for a plaque.

X wants to give money, but is a cheapskate and and asshole. Go around to all the merchants and inform them of a new tax.

X's caravan has a sick horse/camel/person, cure it with some rare hillside herb.

X's city has a particularly dangerous criminal on the loose that has issued threats against the councilor. Kill him so that it doesn't look like X is fleeing from the threats.

X just REALLY does not want to go. Persuade or blackmail them into going.

X fears for his/her safety. Perhaps persuade, or hire extra guards for him/her. *note: SHOULDN'T BE A POSSIBLE ASSASSINATION TARGET (at least not during the wedding)*
With those 7 councillors perhaps one quest from each and all have to be completed before the wedding begins.
1,2,4,5 and 6 are good base ideas.
for 3 and 7
here are mine:

3: Assassination(not of the assassination of clavilla). of someone really important (i dont know much lore so someone else here could pick a person out)
so that fear gets spread into the wedding. and things like that, a councillor asks you to do this.

7: get into the wedding. be that of my idea up the top(catering) or a guard of someone, or sneak in.
quest 7 begins when you finish the other 6. After the assassination in 3, there will be strict security to prevent further terrorism (which is what it is.) so there is only going to be a couple ways to do this.
A: Be a guest on the list. PC can be this.
B: Be a slave type person of A. PC can be this.
C: Be a guard. (that could be of A, or just a city guard)
D: Sneak In. PC can be this.
E: Be clavilla or groom. (obviously PC cant be either of these 2. but the girl pc's might want to wear a wedding dress :D )
F: Be the priest. Unless the PC is a redguard and is a high enough known priest that aint gonna happen.
G: Caterer. PC can be this.

A,B,D or G are all seperate quests and only one of which can be started.

Though all people actually get to witness the death of Clavilla.

if you look at elfanes avatar that would be cool looking priest. hehe elfane could be teh priest. If there are clothes of that style ingame that would be wicked.
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Post by TheGooch »

Bump much, wanna see what poeple thought of my ideas.
I'm experimenting with CS & Scripting, and im making a execution seen using bows & arrows etc. just seeing how it would look.
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Post by Deeza »

Is it absolutely necessary to have to choose between all seven at the wedding? That's a lot of choices for the player to have to handle all at the same time. What we could have instead is that you get offered 3 or so initially, but that further down the line some of the other people offer you the chance to switch sides.

For example, you could be working for A, when B (who didn't offer at the wedding but is a rival of A for whatever reason) could send a representative to offer you a hefty reward if you come and work for him instead.

If the PC is truly treacherous, then you might even be able to work in the option of playing two sides off against each other as a double agent, with neither being any the wiser if you're skilled enough. This would have the advantage that a player wouldn't have to start a new game every time just to see the main quest from a different point of view (if you have seven separate branches then that's seven replays just to see all the possible perspectives - not that there's anything wrong with that - its great for replay value but it would be good I think to have a bit of flexibility once the quest's underway).

For example, say you're working for A, but B has asked for your services as well. A sends you to bump off a traitor to his cause, but you then have the option of instead taking him over to a safe house run by B and taking back whatever token you require to A and collect two rewards from both your bosses. This works a bit like the quest in Tribunal where you can either kill the people the psycho King wants done in or persuade them to leave the city.

You could even triple cross people and it wouldn't be that hard to script: you're working undercover for C as an agent for D. D asks you to meet up with his top spy and carry back his reports. You do so. But you can then shop the spy to C for an even bigger reward.

Of course, later when thing's get more and more serious, you'd ultimately have to choose a side and stick with it, but I think that the added buildup from working the different sides for your own benefit would make the "moment of truth" where you need to do or die at the end stages of the main quest much more dramatic, as well as giving you the chance to change your mind later in the game if you decide you don't like a particular faction's methods or aims.

Having three or so branches that later themselves branch also seems to be a bit more realistic than every single person asking for your help simultaneously (two is likely if they all know you, three is possible, but more than that looks a bit staged). The others could be brought into the quest by specific developments that take places as you do jobs for the others.


Sorry if this has been a bit off topic or if this has already been discussed and settled. I haven't been here for that long, so I may have missed some important decisions on this one.
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Post by Jale »

Personally I would consider the 'choosing' of a side slightly inorganic and unrealistic...they just met you, who would include you in your plans.

If this is an initiating part to the main quest, it sort of deserves a real experience. My mind jumps to the Dark Brotherhood 'Dinner Party' quest, but far better done. I think that the event should go one way without the player's interaction, but by discovering the intentions of various parties through slightly more organic methods, the outcome can be influenced by the player.

I will use the names of the cities to represent individuals associated with them, it could be princes or seneschals or anything. I think the best way to do it would have it so that each events can earn you 'points' towards an outcome. The most 'points' for any plotline results in that one being dominant.

I have put most of them split into a few different paths, it might not make much sense.

Events that occur:
1a Taneth meets with assassin in slightly hidden location
1b Assassin is possibly discovered
1c Assassin is interrogated
1di Assassin Foiled at last moment
1dii Assassination performed by you
1diii Assasination performed by NPC
1e Evidence discovered

2a Elinhir overparties
2bi Elinhir offends others, deal falls through
2bii Elinhir attends wedding in good form

3a Hegathe's trade rep locked in room by accident
3bi Hegathe misses trade signing
3bii Hegathe attends trade signing

4ai Wedding succeeds entirely
4aii Wedding called off due to assassination
4aiii Wedding forced through by Lhotun despite assasination attempt, bad feeling
4aiv Wedding goes through despite assassination attempt, as the whole plot is uncovered
4av Wedding goes through but the assassination attempt is known by Gilane or Skaven

5ai Party Crasher makes it into Wedding
5aii Party Crasher foiled

Possible courses at junctures:
1a - Replace assassin, ignore assassin, tell any of the parties, make it public/tell multiple parties
1b - Save assassin, replace assassin, ignore and allow capture, aid capture
1c - Save assassin, silence assassin (occurs if assassin captured
1di - Allow capture, aid capture, kill assassin
1dii - Do it, don't do it.
1diii - Prevent Capture to allow this to happen
1e - Plant information, do not plant information

2a - Talk down Elinhir, Ignore Elinhir, Party with Elinhir
2bi - Happens if you leave Elinhir drinking
2bii - Happens if you talk them down, or fetch a sobering potion

3a - Unlock door, ignore
3bi - happens if Hegathe does not arrive
3bii - happens if hegathe does not

4ai - Happens if foiled Assassination attempt is kept secret from Skaven and Gilane
4aii - Happens if assassination suceeds in any manner
4aiii - Happens if either assassination is stopped at last moment, or made public
4aiv - Happens if evidence discovered
4av - Happens if Gilane and/or skaven is aware of foiled assassination attempt

5a - Either ignore the wedding crasher or report him

Various points distributed based on certain outcomes. It would be an amalgam of a simple flowchart, in that certain outcomes would result in an instant failure (reporting the assassination plot would fail Taneth of course...etc, with other events simply contributing to an outcome. I can't be bothered to put more effort in at this point since it may be a waste of my time.
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Post by Urckanurck »

how will you keep the quest from being rediculously easy if you already went through the cyrodiil main quest and made ur guy like level 40, will the first parts of this quest be little missions like find this item for me the get more complicated?
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Post by fstony »

Urc,
Aside from the difficulty slider, I imagine that good quest design and puzzles should help keep the game fresh and thoughtful for all players. Combat or skills checks are not the only way to introduce challenges. But you want specifics, I suppose?

Well, that sort of thing is part of what's getting hammered out here. Maybe you'd like to post some good ideas about how to deliver a good experience for advanced players.

Try this on for size: The political intrigue in this main quest suggests the possibility of a logic game based on what various characters say. I'm thinking something based on lines of those puzzles where Timmy lives in the blue house with the brown dog and Jimmy's best friend has a green dog, but Jimmy's house isn't green. Only rooted in the game and less transparent. There could be a low-brow alternative for the brutish player as well.

I'm inclined to agree with Deeza that a branching structure might feel more natural, as long as the forks aren't too obviously sequential. Jale's points system also seems workable, although some of the events might need to be changed. Lots of good individual quest ideas in the rest of the posts, too.
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Post by Jale »

Yeh I was just presenting it as a possible structure rather than for events. The wedding should unfold regardless of the player's interaction, and if they are in the right place at the right time then they can intervene. Afterwards the player would of course find out what they COULD have done and thus be able to go back and replay it a different way.
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Post by Haplo »

Jale wrote:Afterwards the player would of course find out what they COULD have done and thus be able to go back and replay it a different way.
I think one of the things Sload really wanted about Hammerfell was the fact that you couldn't fix things. I may be misunderstanding you here, but one of the intended vibes of the Hammerfell "main quest" was that even though it's supposed to have a 'good ending', everything you do ends up killing someone or making something really bad happen to someone. For instance if you are asked to go work for either Rihad or Taneth, you can't choose both; if you choose Rihad, Taneth, goes up in flames. If you choose Taneth, Rihad degenerates into a haven for criminals and becomes really seedy.
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Post by Jale »

Yeh I totally agree, but I mean in a replayability manner. I.e. first play through you would have only the clues at your disposal to know where to go and what to do. At the end it becomes apparent what could have been done if you had found out about it. Then on a second play through or on a reload you could do it with the benefit of this hindsight. This allows for a bit of fiddling in the metagame but not in a single playthrough. Means that a player won't be doomed to the same quest path on subsequent playthroughs just because they didn't do X specific task which they can only find if they stumble on it during a small window.
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Post by Sload »

Oh and Gilane and Skaven are cut as quests because they aren't really distinctive...

I'm thinking about cutting Sentinel too. The "let's all be friends" attitude is weaksauce and I'm worried everyone would chose it because of our pacifistic society.
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Post by Lady Nerevar »

Sentinel is the capital, and therefore too important to cut imho. instead make the attitude a bit less 'weaksauce'. after all, Lhotun put up with the consolidation of ideas shit only to gain power and it would be in his best interest to eliminate the radicals that are most against him. Indeed, it will be interesting to see how Lhotun and his government handles the assassination and the rise to power of the successor. he might be all in favor of the Admiral taking over Taneth because Clavilla has/had a huge stick up her ass, or might be all like "oh noes" if the successor to the other possible assassination is more against a peaceful hammerfell then the original leader was. Joining Lhotun would probably involve more diplomatic missions then the other cities, but it should most definitely have the "i dont like this leader whack him" vibe as well... CIA?
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Post by Jale »

Sentinel has the possibility to be the best of all the quests, because they want everything done with absolute minimal strife...and getting people to not argue is the hardest thing in the world. They do not have the luxury of assassinations, as that creates power vacuums and paranoia. They have to stage accidents if they want someone out of the way, leave absolutely no doubt that the Redguard people must be united. Way harder than just killing off some folks.
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Post by jonarus_drakus »

At the risk of sounding unimaginitive, i think there should be differing quest paths for each of the major character 'fields' (combat, magic, & stealth). By all means, make all quest-line accessable to all player types, but have these distinct themes for the various quests for 'flavour'.

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Post by Thrignar Fraxix »

That was not worth a bump of this thread. Please stop necromancing old threads.
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Post by Four Greyhounds »

I'm sorry, and i'm probably gonna get yelled at, but I still don't exactly understand what's going on. How does your character get to Hammerfell, and how does a complete stranger to Hammerfell become a wedding planner? And what are the choices that the character has? They get to choose one leader from each of the cities, and then what? Sorry again, but could somebody please help me out?
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Post by Lady Nerevar »

your character gets to hammerfell by crossing at any of the 3 points available to do so (2 border forts and a smuggler cave), simple as that. you start out doing menial tasks and eventually earn the leader's trust and get into the politics. the exact choices (both in the early stage, which is the topic at hand, and later on) have not yet been concretely decided. hence we have this thread.
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Post by Tamriel Treasurer »

I think that maybe the main quest could have more benefits if the player was a Redguard. As in, the leaders would trust the player even more than another race, because of Redguard honor or something like that. Then they would be open to more slots in politics. (just an idea)
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Another idea!

Post by Jorak »

How about a quest were you have to go to an diamond mine and recover an extraordinary diamond, which is at the end of that mine. In that mine there are leveldepending enemies, some items and a little letter, which seems to talk about a assassination planed for the next time( I would also write that letter). When you found the diamond you have to bring it to a smith who tells you he needs some gold, iron and a daedric weapon which he would melt down to get a special metal in it. When you got them( gold could be bought for 'gold', iron is clear where to find and a daedric weapon could be found in an daedric empty ruin nearly) he forge you the wedding ring. Variants: - the daedric metal is found separatly in an ruin - instead of gold you could use any other valuable metal Problems: -are there any diamond mines in Hammerfell? - is there a daedric shrine or metal in Hammerfell?
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Post by blackbird »

I don't believe there are daedric shrines in hammerfell. There could be diamond mines in Hammerfell, but i'm not sure about it. I can't imagine that there isn't metal in Hammerfell.
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Post by Jorak »

Do you like the idea? The other problems may be correctable.
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Post by LoreBuffCan'tMod »

No, there aren't any Daedric shrines. when you want to talk to a daedric prince, you wait till their summoning day and go talk to a Daedric Summoner.
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Post by Katze »

That was in Daggerfall, that game was old and light on the details. Technically there could be, but given the scale OB was done at, it's more important to concentrate on Redguard religions.

Also, why the fuck is this being discussed here? This is a thread about a wedding and a long questline concerning said wedding, not summoning a Daedric Prince.
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Post by Sload »

thread should prolly be archived
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