House Telvanni
Moderators: Haplo, Lead Developers
Telvanni Ideologies & Ethics(Yup, Telvanni have 'em too)
Stories where people are without ideologies don't offer much in the way of meaningful
conflict, which tends to be boring, which is thus wrong.
I aim to disprove the idea that the Telvanni don't have ideologies. What I propose is that Telvanni ideology is simply vastly different to anything that we would recognise. This basic ideology can then be further subdivided into various factions within the Telvanni. I'm going to re-imagine the intra-Telvanni conflicts as a result of, and stemming from, such ideologies.
The Telvanni do not place any value on the experiences of others; it is not considered desirable in any way to help another without benefit accruing to oneself. That said, telvanni will help you out if it benefits them in any way at all, or if they simply see amusement in the consequences.
They also go further than this, believing that it is against the natural order to help somebody weaker than you without due reason. Relationships between Telvanni are base purely
on mutual benefit; when somebody is no longer useful, it's totally cool to kill them. They also believe that rights are based purely on how powerful you are; wizard-lords have very right to do whatever they want to their subjects. Their subjects, once they have accepted the lord's mastery, have no right to resist them. If they choose not to accept the Mastery of a senior, anything the senior does to them is fair game. If a wizard-lord's authority is put into question in any way, say by a peasant not paying all their taxes, it is not only the Lord's right, but his duty to exact a suitable revenge on his subject.
Society is based on everybody except the really powerful knowing their place. If one peasant decides to kill another, that's ok, but the lord will still have him punished for having deprived the House of taxes, etc. (If you kill somebody the lord didn't like, it'll be ok)
Thus, for everybody who doesn't fit into the small elite, freedom is non-existent. For the Archmagister, it is limitless. Each step in the hierarchy only has to recognise the primacy of those above. The concept of "protection in exchange for power", as seen in many governmental forms, whereby the government protects you in exchange for your allegiance, is absent. Such a form of government remains stable because nearly all of the competition is at the upper levels; the peasant's lives and economic activity aren't affected by the rat race that is the Council, etc.
The more powerful Telvanni are afforded complete freedom to do whatever they want, delving into whatever interests them. Their complete lack of responsibilities allows them to simply shut themselves away with whatever they find most interesting at present. It also means that they are likely to continually search for new challenges, etc. This leads to some of them locking themselves away in their towers once they have expended an awful lot of effort in getting a seat on the Council. When you're a demigod, you have no real interest in taxes, etc. The only people that interest the Councillors are other powerful individuals; the other Councillors, Lords, etc. They have little interest in powerless individuals. This also means that they will seek to impress one another; it's easy to impress your peasants; therefore it's not worth bothering with. It's more difficult, and therefore more interesting, to impress your peers. It's a constant pissing contest between the various lords. (This is part of the reason for Dral's pocket world; it's a huge status symbol)
The Telvanni defend their own domains fiercely, resenting any encroachment on their powers. This is the main reason that they hate the Imperials so much. Even the most hands-off rule is too much. They trade with the Imperials because it suits them to have Imperial money. Rathra fights with the duchess because she was harping in on her rule. In doing so, she reveals herself as being the most extreme Telvanni in this regard. She's just using Telvanni rules in an Imperial setting; which is basically a giant culture clash.
Mithras is the least extreme of the Telvanni, in this respect. He still strongly believes in putting everybody in their place, but has no problem with allowing fairly neutral benefits to accrue to his "ant colony".
Vaerin hates the Temple largely because they interfered in some fashion in his affairs.
Eldale allies herself with Rathra to head off any possible future Imperial intrusion and for mutual benefit.
Faruna doesn't give a shit, neither does Dral.
Opinions please. This is basically just an extension of Telvanni motivations to explain the behaviour we see, giving a social dimension, etc.
Stories where people are without ideologies don't offer much in the way of meaningful
conflict, which tends to be boring, which is thus wrong.
I aim to disprove the idea that the Telvanni don't have ideologies. What I propose is that Telvanni ideology is simply vastly different to anything that we would recognise. This basic ideology can then be further subdivided into various factions within the Telvanni. I'm going to re-imagine the intra-Telvanni conflicts as a result of, and stemming from, such ideologies.
The Telvanni do not place any value on the experiences of others; it is not considered desirable in any way to help another without benefit accruing to oneself. That said, telvanni will help you out if it benefits them in any way at all, or if they simply see amusement in the consequences.
They also go further than this, believing that it is against the natural order to help somebody weaker than you without due reason. Relationships between Telvanni are base purely
on mutual benefit; when somebody is no longer useful, it's totally cool to kill them. They also believe that rights are based purely on how powerful you are; wizard-lords have very right to do whatever they want to their subjects. Their subjects, once they have accepted the lord's mastery, have no right to resist them. If they choose not to accept the Mastery of a senior, anything the senior does to them is fair game. If a wizard-lord's authority is put into question in any way, say by a peasant not paying all their taxes, it is not only the Lord's right, but his duty to exact a suitable revenge on his subject.
Society is based on everybody except the really powerful knowing their place. If one peasant decides to kill another, that's ok, but the lord will still have him punished for having deprived the House of taxes, etc. (If you kill somebody the lord didn't like, it'll be ok)
Thus, for everybody who doesn't fit into the small elite, freedom is non-existent. For the Archmagister, it is limitless. Each step in the hierarchy only has to recognise the primacy of those above. The concept of "protection in exchange for power", as seen in many governmental forms, whereby the government protects you in exchange for your allegiance, is absent. Such a form of government remains stable because nearly all of the competition is at the upper levels; the peasant's lives and economic activity aren't affected by the rat race that is the Council, etc.
The more powerful Telvanni are afforded complete freedom to do whatever they want, delving into whatever interests them. Their complete lack of responsibilities allows them to simply shut themselves away with whatever they find most interesting at present. It also means that they are likely to continually search for new challenges, etc. This leads to some of them locking themselves away in their towers once they have expended an awful lot of effort in getting a seat on the Council. When you're a demigod, you have no real interest in taxes, etc. The only people that interest the Councillors are other powerful individuals; the other Councillors, Lords, etc. They have little interest in powerless individuals. This also means that they will seek to impress one another; it's easy to impress your peasants; therefore it's not worth bothering with. It's more difficult, and therefore more interesting, to impress your peers. It's a constant pissing contest between the various lords. (This is part of the reason for Dral's pocket world; it's a huge status symbol)
The Telvanni defend their own domains fiercely, resenting any encroachment on their powers. This is the main reason that they hate the Imperials so much. Even the most hands-off rule is too much. They trade with the Imperials because it suits them to have Imperial money. Rathra fights with the duchess because she was harping in on her rule. In doing so, she reveals herself as being the most extreme Telvanni in this regard. She's just using Telvanni rules in an Imperial setting; which is basically a giant culture clash.
Mithras is the least extreme of the Telvanni, in this respect. He still strongly believes in putting everybody in their place, but has no problem with allowing fairly neutral benefits to accrue to his "ant colony".
Vaerin hates the Temple largely because they interfered in some fashion in his affairs.
Eldale allies herself with Rathra to head off any possible future Imperial intrusion and for mutual benefit.
Faruna doesn't give a shit, neither does Dral.
Opinions please. This is basically just an extension of Telvanni motivations to explain the behaviour we see, giving a social dimension, etc.
"It’s all been such a mistake. We were once little shrew-like animals. That would be so much better."
-Ophelia Benson
-Ophelia Benson
(Please use Notepad+, Pnotepad, or anything else like that instead of the standard Windows notepad which is awful when you type your text outside of the browser window.)
One thing I'd like to say is that the Telvanni do not really have a common ideology and code of ethics outside of their extremely strong individualism. Master Aryon of Tel Vos, speaking about the Sadrith Mora Council, [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/decoded_message_from_aryon.shtml]says[/url] that there are two "factions" of Telvannis that are hostile to him: the traditionalists and the crazies. The ideas of Aryon are thus shown as being wildly outside of the usual Telvanni mindset. Yet anyone who ever visited Tel Vos could claim that Aryon is an Imperial puppet, you just have to see how he has an "Imperial Museum" just next to the "Dwemer Museum" to see the poor opinion he holds, and the great insolence he harbors, with regards to the Empire.
One thing I'd like to say is that the Telvanni do not really have a common ideology and code of ethics outside of their extremely strong individualism. Master Aryon of Tel Vos, speaking about the Sadrith Mora Council, [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/decoded_message_from_aryon.shtml]says[/url] that there are two "factions" of Telvannis that are hostile to him: the traditionalists and the crazies. The ideas of Aryon are thus shown as being wildly outside of the usual Telvanni mindset. Yet anyone who ever visited Tel Vos could claim that Aryon is an Imperial puppet, you just have to see how he has an "Imperial Museum" just next to the "Dwemer Museum" to see the poor opinion he holds, and the great insolence he harbors, with regards to the Empire.
What I'm saying above is that their ideology basically just states that they can do whatever they want. As far as factionalism goes, these are the mainland factions:
-Rathra & Eldale (promote anti-imperial action)
-Vaerin & Omothran (anti-temple)
-Marog guy & Telsaran (search for power, tied somewhat to Rathra & Eldale)
-The PC and Gemayn
-Mithras (all alone)
-Bal Gernak (also alone)
-Rathra & Eldale (promote anti-imperial action)
-Vaerin & Omothran (anti-temple)
-Marog guy & Telsaran (search for power, tied somewhat to Rathra & Eldale)
-The PC and Gemayn
-Mithras (all alone)
-Bal Gernak (also alone)
"It’s all been such a mistake. We were once little shrew-like animals. That would be so much better."
-Ophelia Benson
-Ophelia Benson
-
theviking
- Developer Emeritus
- Posts: 2145
- Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:49 pm
- Location: Alphen aan den Rijn, the Netherlands
Maybe there are becoming some cracks in the traditional Telvanni ways. Mithras is off course a prime example of this. Also Llevari Telsaran is someone who sometimes operates outside of this law. The both of them would do very much (but not everything) to defend the underlings that they like. Rrathra and maybe even more Dral are perfect examples of conservative Telvanni leaders. I think that including this in your motivations story (which is really good btw) would deepen the confilcts between the factions more.
Interiors: 25
Reviews: more then 250!
Quest Reviews: 3
NPC claims: 2
Currently looking for quest designers.
Reviews: more then 250!
Quest Reviews: 3
NPC claims: 2
Currently looking for quest designers.
-
theviking
- Developer Emeritus
- Posts: 2145
- Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:49 pm
- Location: Alphen aan den Rijn, the Netherlands
Another master is the current master of the Telvanni library, Ulvon Ghirvayn. He has no political role anymore, but he is an old and very wise wizard. So he should be seen with respect by some of the people from the council. He feels like he is above all the "petty squabbling" of the current councillors. The way I see the telvanni library, it's a place were all the factions can get advice and as much as a neutral place as a Telvanni place can be. Ulvon is sort of like a professor, he always wants to advise people and his biggest goal is to expand the (magical) knowledge. If you disagree with him, he's the kind of person that debates with you do what he says. (I based him on one of my own professors)
Interiors: 25
Reviews: more then 250!
Quest Reviews: 3
NPC claims: 2
Currently looking for quest designers.
Reviews: more then 250!
Quest Reviews: 3
NPC claims: 2
Currently looking for quest designers.
-
Harke the Apostle
- Developer
- Posts: 1638
- Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 9:18 pm
- Location: N/A
- Contact:
@ Lud:
I have a problem with the description of the relationships between the Telvanni mages and their people. The other Telvanni need to have some kind of rights (at least in theory), otherwise what is the difference between the Telvanni and their slaves?
I think the other Telvanni are the retainers of the mages by choice. They choose a mage who can protect them (if they don't stay in the Tel they were born into), offer them farmland and/or living space. (which is more or less what you said too).
Although the system is more or less feudal, upward mobility for commoners -all the way to the top- isn't out of the question.
The Telvanni are too anarchic and freedom-loving to simply bully their brethren (the slaves are a different matter) into submission the bad old-fashioned medieval way.
(They have to use more refined methods).
I have a problem with the description of the relationships between the Telvanni mages and their people. The other Telvanni need to have some kind of rights (at least in theory), otherwise what is the difference between the Telvanni and their slaves?
I think the other Telvanni are the retainers of the mages by choice. They choose a mage who can protect them (if they don't stay in the Tel they were born into), offer them farmland and/or living space. (which is more or less what you said too).
Although the system is more or less feudal, upward mobility for commoners -all the way to the top- isn't out of the question.
The Telvanni are too anarchic and freedom-loving to simply bully their brethren (the slaves are a different matter) into submission the bad old-fashioned medieval way.
(They have to use more refined methods).
New member here who is very impressed by the amount of effort still being put into the Telvanni.
On the topic of a valuable Telvanni export: Why not an agricultural product that is either addictive or completely necessary for Imperial industry, like tobacco and cotton are in our world? It could grow exclusively in the climate of the Telvanni Isles.
On the topic of a valuable Telvanni export: Why not an agricultural product that is either addictive or completely necessary for Imperial industry, like tobacco and cotton are in our world? It could grow exclusively in the climate of the Telvanni Isles.
On the library:
The library is somewhat sacrosanct to the Telvanni. It's the one place where the Telvanni can let their guard down and it's also the only place where it's considered bad form to assasinate one of your rivals. The library is a break from the usual cutthroat politics.
Though the Chief Librarian may be of master level rank-wise he doesn't have any official political power. He has no place on the council. However, he plays a role somewhat similar to that played by the Pope in Italy up until the formation of the Vatican as a separate state; he's a bit of a "big brother" figure who can influence things should he see fit. In the past, some Chief Librarians have used the post for political gain, causing great problems to do with separation of powers, etc. There is a certain amount of fear in some quarters that such a situation oculd return, though there is no danger of that as long as Ghirvayn stays in power. He stays aloof from political conflicts but still makes fun of the other councillors to a certain extent. Should be mildly eccentric, but relatively benevolent with a certain amount of wit. (Please suggest a good eccentricity for him)
I'm planning to add a history of Telvanni politics. Such events as the conflict above will be added.
The library is somewhat sacrosanct to the Telvanni. It's the one place where the Telvanni can let their guard down and it's also the only place where it's considered bad form to assasinate one of your rivals. The library is a break from the usual cutthroat politics.
Though the Chief Librarian may be of master level rank-wise he doesn't have any official political power. He has no place on the council. However, he plays a role somewhat similar to that played by the Pope in Italy up until the formation of the Vatican as a separate state; he's a bit of a "big brother" figure who can influence things should he see fit. In the past, some Chief Librarians have used the post for political gain, causing great problems to do with separation of powers, etc. There is a certain amount of fear in some quarters that such a situation oculd return, though there is no danger of that as long as Ghirvayn stays in power. He stays aloof from political conflicts but still makes fun of the other councillors to a certain extent. Should be mildly eccentric, but relatively benevolent with a certain amount of wit. (Please suggest a good eccentricity for him)
I'm planning to add a history of Telvanni politics. Such events as the conflict above will be added.
"It’s all been such a mistake. We were once little shrew-like animals. That would be so much better."
-Ophelia Benson
-Ophelia Benson
Personally I like theviking's view of the master librarian. To me, Lud is giving him way too much power. We can't have a game with demi-gods all over the place, i.e. Rilvin Dral, the World-Maker himself. Suggesting his role is similar to the Pope minus the religious side still makes him quite powerful. If the pope says "Revolt!" How many Catholics around the world would turn on their states? ALOT. Mind you, if the Master Librarian was the retired Archmagister of House Telvanni, that would give him the appropriate power Lud is refering to.
What I'm saying is that previous librarians have held this sort of power, but that this guy doesn't take any interest in politics.
The librarian being powerful is just background/history at the moment. He'll have no power in the mod itself at any point.
The librarian being powerful is just background/history at the moment. He'll have no power in the mod itself at any point.
"It’s all been such a mistake. We were once little shrew-like animals. That would be so much better."
-Ophelia Benson
-Ophelia Benson
-
Blood Lord Marlech
- Member
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:25 am
A Telvanni is a Telvanni. A lot of people will play a game for the sake of playing. But there are also a lot that like to know the lore among other things in games. Telvanni are arrogant, and, lets be honest, who here has NOT known an eccentric Telvanni? Perhaps with the exception of Mithras, you don't meet a lot of Telvanni that don't wield a considerable amount of power.If you steal from another Telvanni, but still live, then clearly you deserve whatever you stole. Murdering your opponents by magic or treachery is the traditional way of settling disputes. If you win, then clearly your argument has more merit. You may be expelled as in any other Great House, but most Telvanni will not care or even know about it.
That being said, I do agree with Lud's idea of a break from the usual Telvanni ideals while in the library, although most high-ranking Telvanni will have their own library to go to.
The way I see it, Lud's description describes my idea of the Master Librarian, but who else do we know that matches that description completely? Divayth Fyr. While not a member of the council, Divayth wields considerable influence among the Telvanni and in my opinion, almost matches the power among the Telvanni as much as Gothren does. Of course, those are the Vvardenfell Telvanni, so who KNOWS what's up with them
-
immortal_pigs
- Developer
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 2:45 pm
- Location: Utrecht
Rilvin Dral
Just a small note on Rilvin Dral; I noticed that he has a book in his room called "the Four". It's a book about four rings that would supposedly make the beholder a lich or a bonelord or something like that. It basically is a way to immortality. Now I don't know if it is a rare book or a common book, I just figured that perhaps that is the ambition of the archmagister. He wants to acquire these four rings to become immortal. That could also be an explenation for his 'pocket world'. Perhaps he has been searching for a long while to become immortal.
The fact is when I first saw him I found him a very interesting character. As he says that his past is shrouded in mystery, and that he is very young. Perhaps he only seems young because he has mastered some form of magic that will slow aging, but will not yet secure immortality.
I think it would be quite a shame if he would remain a sort of underdeveloped character, as from what I have read so far, there aren't many ambitious plans regarding him.
However, assuming that his goal is indeed immortality, that would mean that he should have some other sort of ambitious plan. Atm I can't think of anything fitting, partly because he is a Telvanni and they tend to not really have huge ambitious plans because theyre allready so powerfull, thats why I'm not sure it would be possible to add such an extra depth to his character. Because it might not seem fitting.
I just hope that he will get a larger roal in the Main Quest.
The fact is when I first saw him I found him a very interesting character. As he says that his past is shrouded in mystery, and that he is very young. Perhaps he only seems young because he has mastered some form of magic that will slow aging, but will not yet secure immortality.
I think it would be quite a shame if he would remain a sort of underdeveloped character, as from what I have read so far, there aren't many ambitious plans regarding him.
However, assuming that his goal is indeed immortality, that would mean that he should have some other sort of ambitious plan. Atm I can't think of anything fitting, partly because he is a Telvanni and they tend to not really have huge ambitious plans because theyre allready so powerfull, thats why I'm not sure it would be possible to add such an extra depth to his character. Because it might not seem fitting.
I just hope that he will get a larger roal in the Main Quest.
-
theviking
- Developer Emeritus
- Posts: 2145
- Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:49 pm
- Location: Alphen aan den Rijn, the Netherlands
He will not only have a larger role in the mainquest but he has it's own questline. He features in a couple of other high end Telvanni quests as well. And he owns three pocket realms, so the guy is going to be one of the most powerful characters.
Interiors: 25
Reviews: more then 250!
Quest Reviews: 3
NPC claims: 2
Currently looking for quest designers.
Reviews: more then 250!
Quest Reviews: 3
NPC claims: 2
Currently looking for quest designers.
-
immortal_pigs
- Developer
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 2:45 pm
- Location: Utrecht
I've been looking around for information on Master Vaerin, and so far this is what I have found in different forum topics:
Master Vaerin of Alt Bosara
- Hates the temple with passion
- Does opposite of whatever the Temple does
- Uses proxies (Boethian Cult)
- Vaerin controls the Boethian Cult (No longer valid apparantly)
- He is apparantly unpopular with the rest of the council. They might even be willing to kick him out to appease the Temple?
Why does Vaerin hate the temple?
- Vaerin is a mystic, he believes the Temple is diverting the Dunmeri spirituality (??)(dunno what a mystic is)
- He simply has a grudge against the Temple, because they annoyed him once
Enemies:
Llenari Telsaren, wants to take Vaerin's seat in the council. Collaborates with the Temple to expose Vaerin and his dealings with the Boethian cult.
Allies:
Dralas Omothran, backstabber that wants to get a seat in the council. Betrayed his former patron, Llenari Telsaren. Supposedly also hates the Temple, so he is now allied with Vaerin.
Now I want to know how much of this is still valid.
I also want to know the following (because I will have to write dialogue for him):
Why does he hate the temple?
- Perhaps it's just a hobby?
- Perhaps he fights the Temple to impress the councillors (like Dral has his pocket worlds to impress)
- Perhaps he hates one of the Tribunal or some different aspect of the Temple, and therefore he hates the entire temple.
- Maybe he has some sort of pact with Azura (who doesn't like the Tribunal I think) to destroy the temple.
What are his ambitions?
- So far the clear one is: Remove Temple influence.
But what does Vaerin stand to gain doing that?
To what extent does he want to confront the Temple?
- Utterly destroy it and kill all those that believe in the temple (unlikely) ?
- Remove all Temple influence from the Telvanni territory? So like removing the Temple in Ranyon-Ruhn, and getting rid of other chapels, preachers and temples. (Seems sort of minor, why would the Temple even mind losing a few small temples)
- Taking over Temple territory, like conquering Necrom? (also unlikely)
- So yeah, to what extent does he want to destroy the Temple?
What is the stance of the Temple on Master Vaerin?
- They hate him and take him seriously?
- They don't take him seriously, don't mind him?
- Want him dead?
How powerfull is he actually (magical wise) in comparisson to the other Telvanni Masters?
- Because if he is stronger than say Rathra, why doesn't he just kill her if she gets in his way?
- Or why doesn't he kill Master Mithras (who doesn't oppose the temple)?
Also I assume the following:
- He doesn't like Mithras, because he allows the temple, so Vaerin thinks he's weak.
- Vaerin doesn't like the Indoril, because he thinks they're the Temples bitch.
- Vaerin doesn't like Llenari Telsaren, because Llenari doesn't like him?
Anyway, those are my questions regarding Master Vaerin for now.
Master Vaerin of Alt Bosara
- Hates the temple with passion
- Does opposite of whatever the Temple does
- Uses proxies (Boethian Cult)
- Vaerin controls the Boethian Cult (No longer valid apparantly)
- He is apparantly unpopular with the rest of the council. They might even be willing to kick him out to appease the Temple?
Why does Vaerin hate the temple?
- Vaerin is a mystic, he believes the Temple is diverting the Dunmeri spirituality (??)(dunno what a mystic is)
- He simply has a grudge against the Temple, because they annoyed him once
Enemies:
Llenari Telsaren, wants to take Vaerin's seat in the council. Collaborates with the Temple to expose Vaerin and his dealings with the Boethian cult.
Allies:
Dralas Omothran, backstabber that wants to get a seat in the council. Betrayed his former patron, Llenari Telsaren. Supposedly also hates the Temple, so he is now allied with Vaerin.
Now I want to know how much of this is still valid.
I also want to know the following (because I will have to write dialogue for him):
Why does he hate the temple?
- Perhaps it's just a hobby?
- Perhaps he fights the Temple to impress the councillors (like Dral has his pocket worlds to impress)
- Perhaps he hates one of the Tribunal or some different aspect of the Temple, and therefore he hates the entire temple.
- Maybe he has some sort of pact with Azura (who doesn't like the Tribunal I think) to destroy the temple.
What are his ambitions?
- So far the clear one is: Remove Temple influence.
But what does Vaerin stand to gain doing that?
To what extent does he want to confront the Temple?
- Utterly destroy it and kill all those that believe in the temple (unlikely) ?
- Remove all Temple influence from the Telvanni territory? So like removing the Temple in Ranyon-Ruhn, and getting rid of other chapels, preachers and temples. (Seems sort of minor, why would the Temple even mind losing a few small temples)
- Taking over Temple territory, like conquering Necrom? (also unlikely)
- So yeah, to what extent does he want to destroy the Temple?
What is the stance of the Temple on Master Vaerin?
- They hate him and take him seriously?
- They don't take him seriously, don't mind him?
- Want him dead?
How powerfull is he actually (magical wise) in comparisson to the other Telvanni Masters?
- Because if he is stronger than say Rathra, why doesn't he just kill her if she gets in his way?
- Or why doesn't he kill Master Mithras (who doesn't oppose the temple)?
Also I assume the following:
- He doesn't like Mithras, because he allows the temple, so Vaerin thinks he's weak.
- Vaerin doesn't like the Indoril, because he thinks they're the Temples bitch.
- Vaerin doesn't like Llenari Telsaren, because Llenari doesn't like him?
Anyway, those are my questions regarding Master Vaerin for now.
Last edited by immortal_pigs on Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
- Developer Emeritus
- Posts: 3869
- Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:30 pm
- Location: Elsewhere
Regarding the Boethiah Cult, Vaerin does not 'control' them. He just (and we don't know how things will change between drafts of the m2 MQ) explicitly doesn't do anything about them, and does his best to ensure there are rumors about them. He enjoys the trouble they cause the Temple, but he's not really aiding them as such; he's just not beating up on them.
Regardless, this is a secretive affair, and probably need not come up in dialogue.
Regardless, this is a secretive affair, and probably need not come up in dialogue.
a man builds a city
with Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside
"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
with Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside
"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
-
immortal_pigs
- Developer
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 2:45 pm
- Location: Utrecht
I think I sort of already searched that for info regarding Vaerin. Anything pertaining to Vaerin I have summarized and bolded (see post above). But please do correct me if I missed something important.
-- Just wondering, but is there actually someone who can answer my questions? Otherwise I guess I'll have to make them up? --
-- Just wondering, but is there actually someone who can answer my questions? Otherwise I guess I'll have to make them up? --
-
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
- Developer Emeritus
- Posts: 3869
- Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:30 pm
- Location: Elsewhere
Marog Lord could be a great enemy of the player, or a close friend, that either you or he would stab in the back sooner or later. He could try to frame you for a crime, and then punish you by having slavers sent after you. Then, you could kill them, and then him, (though he should be incredibly powerful), or you can play his slave until you find a letter to him from his sister, a Hlaalu noble, that discusses a seal: he gives her Telvanni information, in exchange for several thousand drakes and more land to grow on. This would be eneugh for the council to have him executed, then they could hire the morag tong to take care of his sister, and any other Hlaalu connections he had.This would free you. I use Hlaalu because backstabbing is like their #1 principle. Also, this could give you considerable prestige. But as an ally, he could give you many advantages, until he ries to have you assassinated to gain your power, and makes many Telvanni under him hate you.
-
Thrignar Fraxix
- Developer Emeritus
- Posts: 10644
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:30 pm
- Location: Silnim
- Contact:
In the future please read your posts before you submit them to ensure they make sense and are readable.
As it stands your post is incredibly hard to read. Also, use more line breaks and periods.
As it stands your post is incredibly hard to read. Also, use more line breaks and periods.
Reviewing Administrator
Morrowind Reviews: 1640
Completed MW Interiors: 29
The just man frowns, but never sneers. We can understand anger, but not malevolence - Victor Hugo, Les Miserables
The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power - Brutus, Julius Caesar
Fun is bad - Haplo
Morrowind Reviews: 1640
Completed MW Interiors: 29
The just man frowns, but never sneers. We can understand anger, but not malevolence - Victor Hugo, Les Miserables
The abuse of greatness is when it disjoins remorse from power - Brutus, Julius Caesar
Fun is bad - Haplo
Sorry! I can only type with one hand right now, and I am new at this.Thrignar Fraxix wrote:In the future please read your posts before you submit them to ensure they make sense and are readable.
As it stands your post is incredibly hard to read. Also, use more line breaks and periods.
So, would there be any connection to the Telvanni questline in Vvardenfell? Or, are they and the mainland Telvanni to separate to care what the other does? I would think that there would at least be some sort of messenger to go between the two councils.
Or, perhaps not. I'm just saying, otherwise they would be like two sepparate factions.
-
Tyrion
- Reviewer
- Posts: 1699
- Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 10:52 pm
- Location: currently hiding in Pentos (aka Philadelphia)
Members of the same faction but different questlines so as to not impact anything that happens on Vvardenfell. We don't change anything Bethesda did.
"Imagination and memory are but one thing which for diverse considerations have diverse names."
"How dare you question the colonnade!" - one of the Glorious Leaders
"Nemon + IKEA = creationism" - some guy
"The layout is awesome, the scale is awesome, the whole city is just awesome!" - Tyrion on Blacklight, circa 2007
"How dare you question the colonnade!" - one of the Glorious Leaders
"Nemon + IKEA = creationism" - some guy
"The layout is awesome, the scale is awesome, the whole city is just awesome!" - Tyrion on Blacklight, circa 2007
-
Bloodthirsty Crustacean
- Developer Emeritus
- Posts: 3869
- Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:30 pm
- Location: Elsewhere
Marog Lord is Rilmas Athyrion.
Just a note: he comes across as alright to the villagers, and isn't particularly mean to the player. His 'evil backstabbery' will become apparent through quests, and I want it to be more of a shock.
Just a note: he comes across as alright to the villagers, and isn't particularly mean to the player. His 'evil backstabbery' will become apparent through quests, and I want it to be more of a shock.
a man builds a city
with Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside
"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
with Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside
"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
-
Andres Indoril
- Senior Developer
- Posts: 1459
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:01 pm
- Location: Lost.... Somewhere?
- Contact:
That has been brought to the attention of some people before and it isn't really a problem now, is it....
[url=http://andresindoril.blogspot.com/][img]http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Andres_Indoril/siggyleft.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://www.youtube.com/user/AndresIndoril][img]http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f94/Andres_Indoril/siggyright.jpg[/img][/url]
"You guys are no fun, I'll start my own TR with dead children and toy guars!" -Why
"You guys are no fun, I'll start my own TR with dead children and toy guars!" -Why
Mithras was named ages ago.
I am aware that he's also a mythical figure, but he's not exactly a major force in modern culture.
If you like, we can change him to "Lord Jesus"
Seriously though, this doesn't matter. He's not being changed.
I am aware that he's also a mythical figure, but he's not exactly a major force in modern culture.
If you like, we can change him to "Lord Jesus"
Seriously though, this doesn't matter. He's not being changed.
"It’s all been such a mistake. We were once little shrew-like animals. That would be so much better."
-Ophelia Benson
-Ophelia Benson
-
theviking
- Developer Emeritus
- Posts: 2145
- Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 2:49 pm
- Location: Alphen aan den Rijn, the Netherlands
Mithras was a cool god anyway. (The favourite of the soldiers in the Roman army) His cult had a great secret initiation rite, and bulls being slaughtered above a pit in which people stood. He also was a representation of the sun. This hasn't anything to do with our Mithras, but i like the epicness of the name and that it sounds dunmer.
Interiors: 25
Reviews: more then 250!
Quest Reviews: 3
NPC claims: 2
Currently looking for quest designers.
Reviews: more then 250!
Quest Reviews: 3
NPC claims: 2
Currently looking for quest designers.