[FCG] Misc. Hammerfell Stuff

[Gez]

Of course, big things such as architecture sets are the most important elements in building a new land. But they're not enough. The little details have got to fit. A city is not just a collection of buildings, it's also streetlights, wells, banners, public benches, and many other elements of urban furniture.
And of course, you have the roads. On these roads you have signposts and bridges.

We need these elements. A short list of what is needed within this FCG:

• Lamps and lampposts,
• Roadmarkers, signs and signposts,
• Banners and banner holders
• Wells
• Braziers
• Various lengths of bridges, some covered, others not
• Planters

Remember that these things have got to be Hammerfedlian. Keep in the mind the materials used for the rest of Redguard design. Many things will be made of bamboo or of clay, for example. Take a look at the Goldmoor architecture set and design things that would fit in well with it; without making it Goldmoor-specific (we should be able to use these things throughout Hammerfell).

Here's a few references that you can use as inspiration.
[url=http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/NGSPOD07/116519~Female-Hiker-on-Bamboo-Bridge-over-the-Marsygandi-River-Posters.jpg]A bamboo bridge[/url], and [url=http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2266207/2/istockphoto_2266207_bamboo_bridge_of_mountain_stream.jpg]another[/url].
Concepts from Elfane, some are relevant to this FCG:
[url=http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clutter1wp8.jpg][img]http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8775/clutter1wp8.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=complation2fv6.jpg][img]http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/9666/complation2fv6.th.jpg[/img][/url]
(Mostly the trough (1-8) and the stall (2-6). The lamps are meant for interiors, but exterior lamps should have a similar design.)

As a sidenote, feel free to come up with stuff for Hammerfell's market stalls, like exotic fruits that could be sold or such.

[aro101]

I found two more pics for inspiration

[url=http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/CA/jalesymbolsoz8.jpg][img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/CA/th_jalesymbolsoz8.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/CA/signsem6.jpg][img]http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x139/aruncio101/TR/CA/th_signsem6.jpg[/img][/url]

[Macar]

[url=http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20336873qp8.jpg][img]http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/8203/20336873qp8.th.jpg[/img][/url]

How about something like this for a well?

[Gez]

Cool use of serpent motifs. Makes it a bit ornate, though.

[Nemon]

Go easy on me, this is my first concept art ever.

The market stall is made up by a morrowind inspired overhang, and three or more containers with static contents. Placing twenty apples into a basket causes havok havoc so to speak... Creating a static bunch of berries, fruit, vegetables or spices will work out fine. A varied set of overhangs would rock as well.
[url=http://img380.imageshack.us/my.php?image=downloadjd9.jpg][img]http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/4685/downloadjd9.th.jpg[/img][/url]

The laundry lines would look really cool if swaying, but that could cause some fps drop, and restrict modularity as well. Creating an empty laundry line and then adding clothes would result in unique looking laundry lines. That would require some static meshes, since ordinary clothing is havok'ed and would fall to the ground. So my call is no animation.
[url=http://img380.imageshack.us/my.php?image=downloadhy2.jpg][img]http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/8155/downloadhy2.th.jpg[/img][/url]

(GezEdit to put the pics on imageshack instead of the TR server. Space & Bandwidth Stinginess powah!)

[Gez]

Go easy on me, this is my first concept art ever.

That's going on my HoCA resume. "Got Nemon to start concept-arting."

[kingbob000]

My first concepting too. Just some simple signs and a lamp post. Not sure if it's what you want though. [url=http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=signsnq0.jpg][img]http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6595/signsnq0.th.jpg[/img][/url]
________
[url=http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_E23]E23[/url]

[PieXags]

Test sketch for a fountain. Don't know if I'm way off the mark or within usable boundaries, actually just wanted to test some background fading things (that, using the preview option, I have failed at).

[img]http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c192/PieXags/Tamriel%20Rebuilt/fountain2.jpg[/img]

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c192/PieXags/Tamriel%20Rebuilt/fountain-1.jpg (This one was the original image, has "people".)

Fountain thing. Water. People who use the water. Coming from some resevoir contained within some...walls? Guess it's not really furniture or lamps, but fountains and water sources are things you'd find around the city too, yeah?

...I should really stick to atmospheric paintings.

I'll try some bridges next. ...and I'll spend more time on them than the above.

Edit: Cleaned the image a bit because some of it's edges annoyed me every time I looked at it.

[Elfane]

There is an inflation in CA-artists. Love it.

Macar - neat idea for a well, a UC or Temple well perhaps?

Nemon & Kingbob - welcome to the world of pencils & erasers.

PieXags - I do like the idea of a fountain like that, I will probably elaborate it.

3 newcomers and one resurrected oldie

[PieXags]

Ok. Well. I lied about spending more time on the next thing than the fountain above. But...it's 4:50 in the morning, and I should probably sleep. Bridge. The background can for the purpose of this thread be ignored, as I put it there for the sake of it.

[img]http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c192/PieXags/Tamriel%20Rebuilt/bridgetest3lines.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c192/PieXags/Tamriel%20Rebuilt/bridgetest3.jpg[/img]

Lines and quick splash of paint. The idea I suppose is for a bridge made out of the same stone/clay whateverthehell a great deal of the other architecture is made out of, with wooden beams hardened in the make of it. The lights are bowls on poles, little holes in their bottoms so they stay there.

It has since occured to me that the bamboo/wooden poles may very well set on fire given these sorts of lights. But ah...I'm an artist, not an engineer. Might be better to use some other form of lamp on them. And anyone can feel free to swap these up and do a more functional drawing of them.

[Blood Lord Marlech]

Some sort of hanging lanterns might be nice. but I can draw well, but I'm the worst painter ever.

[PieXags]

I actually had some hanging lanterns on those posts initially... I changed them because I thought it would be fun to be able to say "bowls on poles".

...hmm. Not the brightest of ideas I've ever had. ...haha! Talking about lanterns, not having the brightest of ideas. That's funny.

...maybe I should forgo this type of art and move back to my big, non-functional comfort zone.

[Nemon]

Okay, thanks for the welcome everyone! While tucked in bed, all alone and bored, I picked up my pencil (what's an "eraser", isn't that one of our honorary members?).

The first one, well... it's a well. As you can see some of the finish has worn off and the bricks are showing. The structure is a quadratic shape with four pillars at each corner, raised slighty from the well level and topped with a small domed knob. The water bucket is lowered and not visible, and I imagine you just turn the handle to bring it up.
[url=http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=downloadja7.jpg][img]http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/360/downloadja7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

The second one is a lookout, a piece of structure that's supposed to be placed on a city wall, or any flat surface where it could fit. It is supported by two (or three?) pillars underneath it, and it is hollow! Meaning that both NPCs and players should be able to walk inside it, accessible through a door that leads the NPC/player into a room inside whatever structure you place this on.
[url=http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=downloadbb6.jpg][img]http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5148/downloadbb6.th.jpg[/img][/url]

I.e you place it on a wall. Then add an entrance a few meters beneath it, and for interiors we could use a simple staircase, and then you have it!

(GezEdit to imageshackise the stuff that was attached. More stinginess. Yay!)

[Gnomey]

I've actually got some ideas that I might draw, but for now I'll just throw in some old banner concepts of mine. The first one is pretty much only there to give you a better idea of how the banners would actually look like.

[url=http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bannerpagezl6.jpg][img]http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9660/bannerpagezl6.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tavadraftul9.jpg][img]http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/381/tavadraftul9.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fanglairdraftqt6.jpg][img]http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1835/fanglairdraftqt6.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[Gez]

My first concepting too. Just some simple signs and a lamp post. Not sure if it's what you want though.

Welcome! Those are good sketches, easy to use, although they look a bit generic. Could you try to incorporate a Lutemothesque serpent motif to those curled iron things, for example? The aim is to make stuff that just scream "Hammerfell!"

Fountain thing. Water. People who use the water. Coming from some resevoir contained within some...walls? Guess it's not really furniture or lamps, but fountains and water sources are things you'd find around the city too, yeah?

Nice design for the fountain, simple and elegant. The reservoir behind the wall is doubtful, though (it would rather be covered to prevent excessive evaporation).

Lines and quick splash of paint. The idea I suppose is for a bridge made out of the same stone/clay whateverthehell a great deal of the other architecture is made out of, with wooden beams hardened in the make of it. The lights are bowls on poles, little holes in their bottoms so they stay there.

The bowls-on-poles at both ends of the bridge are okay, those in the middle are odd. The bridge itself would be perfect for a city bridge like those in Cheydinhal. Could also possibly be used to go over a street, connecting two flat roofs or towers or stuff.

The first one, well... it's a well. As you can see some of the finish has worn off and the bricks are showing.

Would be perfect in a LC area.

The second one is a lookout, a piece of structure that's supposed to be placed on a city wall, or any flat surface where it could fit.

Looks like it would be a fun thing to have. You're gonna make me want to claim a city if these things get modeled.

There is an inflation in CA-artists. Love it.

3 newcomers and one resurrected oldie

I tell you, I'm gonna pad my HOCA resume like a madman with these things.


Hey, I just found a nifty inspiration for a bamboo bridge:
[url=http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=03bamboobridgetothebidabr0.jpg][img]http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/180/03bamboobridgetothebidabr0.th.jpg[/img][/url]
This looks just cool.

[Blood Lord Marlech]

I suppose you could have clay bowls on the bamboo poles, that might work. But what would be keeping them alight? Would someone come along everyday and refill them or relight them?

[Nemon]

Here's a quick rough sketch of a bamboo bridge.

[url=http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=downloadqz4.jpg][img]http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5788/downloadqz4.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=downloadds3.jpg][img]http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/562/downloadds3.th.jpg[/img][/url]
First one shows the bridge from the side and top. Rivers in Goldmoor has a tendency to be with steep cliffs underneath, since the river has carved its way through stone over the years. The bridge is made up by bamboo sticks tied together with rope, and has to railings; one above head level and one at hand level, something to "hold" onto while crossing. Some poles are placed at each side to support the bridge. It doesn't show that good on the first picture, but the length of the poles doesn't go all the way up, that's rope! Only the second pole goes all the way up.
As a bonus I've added an river troll, something common in folklore.

The second picture was directly responsible for the first picture. It's a mess, and just another point of view. Hopefully the first picture will help you comprehend this one

edit, mixed up the order in my description...

(GezEdit: Again.) <---- How DARE you!?

[Gez]

edit, mixed up the order in my description...

That's because when files are attached, the newest is on top; so the first file you attach will be the lowest. It's better to host them on imageshack anyway.

[napoleoman]

I am a bit confused about the Hammerfell Cities. I love Elderscrolls but get easily confused with all the different cultures and what not.

How would you describe a basic Hammerfell city? Is it very developed, under-developed, shanty-town. I see that basic materials are clay and bamboo, but is that all?

How would you describe the surrounding landscape? Barren, flat, mountainous, forested, etc.

I know these questions are kinda basic, but Im not a ES guru like some of the peeps here. A basic description would REALLY help me to figure out what kind of clutter I should be making.

Thanks!

[PieXags]

I feel you Napoleoman, I'm having some of the same problems. I know a lot of stuff is made out of stone/clay, looking pretty simple, middle-eastern almost. Gez gave me some listed examples of real-world influences in my showcase, but there's still a lot of stuff I see mentioned that I have no clue about.

Here are some things I think we could really use in a sticky, here in the Concept Art forum so that those wanting to participate have a better idea of what's needed.

• -An overhead map of Hammerfell, colored/textured so that we can see approximately what sort of landscapes make up what proportion of the province.
  
  -A list of major cities, a brief description of their style, (Ornate, simple. Palace, or common town. Elaborate, or drab) with screenshots of any buildings/concept art currently in usage for the city, or town.
  
  -A list of landmarks - peaks, docks, bays, lakes, mountains, plateus, anything of the sort. Could be marked with a brief description on the map.

I tried to find these things on my own, but was thoroughly unable. I found some screenshots of some in-the-making hammerfell buildings somewhere, they gave me a bit of an idea, but I'm unable to relocate them for Napoleoman and others.

I know there's a bunch of lore links around, but lore really doesn't tell us very much. I've read pages of hammerfell history and lore and it still doesn't give me a clue as to style, architecture, or landscape really. If we could get a collective thread with the above, and sticky it here in the CA section I think it would make a lot of our jobs a lot easier.

[napoleoman]

agreed. That would be most excellent.

[Harke the Apostle]

[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=16632]This thread has the regions and their description[/url]

For the other information the Search function is probably the best tool. Check the earlier Concept threads and Lore & Quests.

The important information is usually in the first post.
Otherwise, just ask.

[Gez]

Well, the scarcity of reliable pictures of what Hammerfell is like is a good part of the reason why we need concept artists in the first place.

Links where you can see some elements:
[url=http://www.imperial-library.info/rgbooks/cyrus_index.shtml]The Origins of Cyrus[/url] -- a comic that accompanied the game Redguard. It's not entirely set in Hammerfell, though, you also see a bit of High Rock and southern Morrowind.
[url=http://www.imperial-library.info/tsorg/]The Story of Redguard[/url] -- screenshots and a sprinkling of concept art from the same game.
[url=http://www.imperial-library.info/realms_iliac/]Realms of the Iliac Bay[/url] -- screenshots from Daggerfall, Abibon-Gora, Lainlyn, Santaki, Scourg Barrow, Sentinel and Totambu are the relevant ones.
[url=http://www.imperial-library.info/maps/map_hf_names.jpg]Big Artsy Map of Hammerfell[/url] -- it's not considered necessarily accurate or binding but it's a good inspiration.

If you want a good real-world inspiration for what a Hammerfell city could look like, the city of Sanaa in Yemen is good because a large part of it has remained preserved from radical changes for centuries. You can easily find [url=http://www.alovelyworld.com/webyemen/htmfr/sanaa.htm]pics[/url] [url=http://www.jorgetutor.com/yemen/yemen.htm]here[/url] and [url=http://www.pbase.com/spoonbender/sanaa]there[/url] on the web, I like [url=http://www.alovelyworld.com/webyemen/htmfr/yem011.htm]these[/url] [url=http://www.alovelyworld.com/webyemen/htmfr/yem012.htm]two[/url]. Or [url=http://crchsbre.club.fr/actu2004/image/sanaa35.gif]this one[/url], try to ignore the cables.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bam%2C_Iran]Bam[/url], in Iran, before it was ruined by an earthquake, was really interesting for much of the same reason.

Keep in mind though that those are just inspiration. Hammerfell is not a carbon copy. If you have Morrowind, you can take a look at Hlaalu cities (Balmora, Suran) to have an example of recreation of the same kind of architecture with an original flavor.

Finally, you can take a look at the city claims for [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=17399]Rihad[/url] and [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=17407]Taneth[/url], there are many screenshots that show how these cities are looking like right now.

[Elfane]

Well I will try to explain some of what you are looking for but it will surely not be easy.

In Hammerfell it will be 3 architecture sets, the goldmoor one that is in the making right now, a desert one and one mountain set. Only one of these have CA and thats the Goldmoor one (GM) The desert set is in the making and will be posted when done.
As for the mountain one, it's still a mystery.

Have a look in Lutemoths gallery for Yoku inspiration, he is a yoku wiz-kid. Lurk the other galleries in the CA section as well. To see what already been made into meshes, look in the Finished thread in the OoT section.

As for inspiration from the real world, have a look at north african, central asian and latin american stuff. The different climates of the regions is explained in the link that Harke posted.

Hammerfell should'nt be a carbon copy of the RL, it should be inspired by it ( since it is what we have for reference it is inevitable ) it should be an original world, a place where you go "Oh, neat idea" or whatever. But it should feel natural, like the GIGANTIC mushrooms trees in MW. I belive it.

I also find somethings in HF hard to grip and get your mind around, and I am by no means a Lore person. But after a while you will get into the mindset of the province and add your flavour to it.

edit - and what Gez said, damn we ninja eachother alot

[Lady Nerevar]

actually, i had intended the mountain set to be the set found in page 7 and 8 of [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=11355&start=280]my CA thread[/url]. its explained in that thread.

as for the actual discussion, i think everyone mentioned the basics if you have any specific questions feel free to ask.

[napoleoman]

Have a look in Lutemoths gallery for Yoku inspiration

Hammerfell should'nt be a carbon copy of the RL, it should be inspired by it

What is Yoku?

What is RL?

[Gez]

Yoku is the culture of the ancient Redguards, before they invaded the land that is now theirs on Tamriel they lived on another continent, called Yokuda. Yokuda was destroyed by a cataclysm and the Yoku fled to Tamriel to get a new place to live, where they first sent their "warrior wave" (Ra Gada in Yoku) to clear the way for colonization. The term "Ra Gada" was corrupted into the Cyrodiilic phonetic approximation Redguard, which is how they are now called.

Yoku therefore refers to elements of Redguard culture that predate their arrival in Hammerfell and they becoming the Redguards.

RL is an abbreviation used everywhere on the net to mean Real Life. That is to say that while there are many real world inspirations for the Redguards -- Africa, Arabia, Persia, India -- these are merely inspirations. The Redguards are their own thing, they are not Africans or Arabs transported directly into Tamriel.

[Sload]

Don't be so specific Gez. While that's good for anyone who wants to understand why we call one weapon style "Yoku" and the other "Ra Gada," in this context, and most context at TR, "Yoku" is just a word meaning "the traditional style of the Redguards." Yoku art, Yoku gods, Yoku clothing, Yoku culture, et cetera.

[napoleoman]

So... Im trying to collect the information from various threads and internet sources to aid in the creation of Concept Art for Hammerfell. Here is a map I created. The base shape and locations of the cities are from an official Elderscrolls map. The geography is a composition of several maps, including the one from here.

[img]http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/8840/hammerfellmapcl0.jpg[/img]

Please note the peninsula of unknown geography type.

If changes need to be made please let me know so specifically what needs to change.[/url]

[Lady Nerevar]

both regions not listed on your map are mountains. currently there is some discussion as to regions and how to do them in the admins forum, so some things are still up in the air.

heres a region map i did last week.

[url=http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9346/hfregionsak1.jpg][img]http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9346/hfregionsak1.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[pespespes]

Lady N. wich colour means what on your map?

[Sload]

You're basically right, Napoleoman. Good job.

Only things to note are that the coastal areas of the desert area (called the Alik'r, meaning roughly, "[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublime_%28philosophy%29]Sublime[/url] and Dangerous Sands") are fertile enough, and the Karnver mountains north of Taneth feel somewhat unacknowledged because no one cares about them. More significantly, the Dragontail mountains are a bit bigger than that and Skaven is located within them, not near them in the desert.

Also, Dak'fron (the "slightly more fertile desert") is being somewhat squeezed out, in that it won't have separate ground textures and things from the main Alik'r, simply because of the necessities of resource allocation.

pespespes, her map is almost identical to napoleoman's, except that the color orange represents savannah instead of the color purple. Please try to apply some deductive reasoning in the future.

[Lady Nerevar]

my map is essentialy the same as napoleon's pes.

gray-brown: mountain
yellow: desert
red: goldmoor
tan: helkori
green: Totambu forest
blue: islands

[edit] too slow :/

[evergrey]

A planter:

[img]http://www.niceboots.org/~evergrey/Tamriel/planterthumb.jpg[/img]
http://www.niceboots.org/~evergrey/Tamriel/planter.jpg

*edit* Sorry the perspective is retarded :/

[Gez]

I like the leaves. Are they genuine or just part of the sculpt and paint in green?

[evergrey]

I was thinking sculpted and painted.

[aro101]

It's sexy I like it. I would only make it a bit more round.

Could someone draw me a lamppost please?

[Macar]

[url=http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ksa227xc2.jpg][img]http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/3024/ksa227xc2.th.jpg[/img][/url]

How about this?

[Elfane]

When I get the time you will get a clutter galore.

[Morden]

@ Evergrey: Great idea for a planter, though when it's time to make it, we should switch the faces for something Yoku themed... snakemen, god heads, or carvings of Satakal.