Something That's Always Confused Me

[Deeza]

Sorry if this has come up before (if it has, could you direct me to the thread please?)

During the Nirnroot quest in Oblivion, if you read the "Nirnroot Missive" carefully it says that it survived the eruption of Red Mountain by evolving very rapidly and "accomplishing what other plants would take millions of years to do in weeks" or something very like that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the inhabitants of Tamriel know for a fact that their world was created by their gods? Even totally non-religious people presumably know the gods exist, they just choose not to worship them. So how do they know about evolution then, if they know for a fact that their world was created spontaneously? It seems to me from little I've seen of the timeline that intelligent life was there from the very beginning. Or does the timeline only start from when the first intelligent life (elves, or hist? I forget) founded the first civilisations, and there are millions of years before then where nothing interesting happened because there was nothing around that was smart enough to use magic or make contact with the gods?

Or did somebody at Bethesda just mess this one up?

While I'm on the subject, is the world Tamriel's a part of (I forget the name) meant to be a spherical planet with two moons orbiting a star, or is it meant to be more like the medieval cosmology of a flat world with a little sun and moon going backwards and forwards above it?

For that matter, are the Daedric planes actually other proper worlds, with ecosystems, civilisations and so forth, or are they just figments of the imagination of the freaks that control them, and are created according to whatever they happen to be thinking at that time?

Probably these sound like stupid questions, but I've only ever played Morrowind and Oblivion, so I have no idea about the lore from the older games other than what little is provided in books from those two.

[Lady Nerevar]

nirn is both a round planet orbiting a star, a flat plane, an endless infinite bubble of potential, and a giant coiled up dragon god.

daedric realms are also infinite bubbles of existence, but unlike nirn they are the same as their creators (the daedra princes) and do not have potential. the realms have inhabitants, who have what could be considered civilizations.

the existence of evolution doesn't negate the existence of gods -- they can coexist perfectly. furthermore, nirn was not created in a day (or 7) but over thousands of years in which both gods and later their mortal descendants took part.

some text that should help:

• [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/cosmology.shtml]cosmology[/url]
  [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/anuad.shtml]the anuad[/url]
  [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/nu-hatta_nu-mantia.shtml#4]nu-mantia intercept, letter 4[/url]

im sure someone will come along to explain it further.

[Mothergoose]

If you read the timeline and the lore it stems from, all creation myths are very vague as to exactly what and when happened during creation. Most agree on this- there were a few gods in contest with each other, and the resolution of their conflict created nirn (also called mundus, and arena). Civilizations didn't start playing a major role in events tell the mythic era, which proceeds the dawn era, or creation era. How long either of these eras lasted is indeterminate.

As a note to evolution, throughout the course of the mythic and (I think) even into the first era the races underwent many serious changes. At one point there were only one race of elves and men, but as they settled in the continent of Tamriel there became three or four each. At one point in "The Pocket Guide to the Empire 3rd Edition", it mentions the existance of tropical elves, located on a seperate set of isles near Summerset.

Go to the imperial library (a lore information website) and look in the forum scholars guild for an article written by abrasivenut. In his paper called "The Origins of Species", he discusses the topic of evolution in Tamriel in great detail (note, this is player conjecture and not official lore).

EDIT: The plains of oblivion are completely separate from one another. They entirety of their existence is contained within the governing daedric prince, so as not to diminish their power. The monomyth describes Nirn as the product of several gods (the eight divines) intentionally/unintentionally sacrificing their power to create the world. The daedra like to come over to Nirn simply because they find it much more exciting then there respective daedric realms.

[Sload]

The problem is that it is Oblivion. The people writing Oblivion had no sense of the overarching narrative of lore, and yet somehow thought that they needed to include things of great significance.

You'll notice that in Morrowind, the Mages' Guild quests involve botany, petty guild politics, and almost fruitless archaeological research. In Oblivion, they feature an overblown cliché war against an evil necromancer.

The person who made up Nirnroot was handed a memo with a list of lore events - probably all of four: Alessia, Red Mountain, 2920, and Tiber Septim. They knew absolutely nothing about TES history, and no one bothered to check.

So yes, the person who wrote that screwed up. It's Oblivion: expect nothing different.

[Mothergoose]

You'll notice that in Morrowind, the Mages' Guild quests involve botany, petty guild politics, and almost fruitless archaeological research. In Oblivion, they feature an overblown cliché war against an evil necromancer.

The person who made up Nirnroot was handed a memo with a list of lore events... knew absolutely nothing about TES history, and no one bothered to check.

So yes, the person who wrote that screwed up. It's Oblivion: expect nothing different.

Yes, sadly this all seems true... This is why I prefer morrowind so much over oblivion. To epic and mainstream for me. And with the exception of the Pocket Guide, the lore pretty much sucks.

[Deeza]

I've heard this point about Oblivion more than once. It took me a long time to realise it (what with being bowled over by the graphics and all) but there isn't half as much to do as there is in Morrowind. I mean, they had factions everywhere, and most of them were, now that I think about it, more like day jobs than trying to save the world - the whole reincarnation business was more like the player's eccentric hobby.

But in Oblivion, you seem to have only the Guilds and MQ, with about four eeevil plots to take over/destroy the world happening simultaneously. What's up with that? Were they just under pressure to turn out a sequel to Morrowind quickly, and ended up rushing it all, or did they feel they had to do something more mainstream with a "let us save this magical kingdom from evil" plot?

That said, the whole gates opening idea is in my opinion one of the best set-ups of any game I've ever played. Pity they didn't take the idea as far as it could have gone.

[Nemon]

I think one thing sums it all up; they included voiced dialogue, and about four voice actors...

I usually skip every line of dialogue because it gets old fast, and I read them before they're half way through anyway.