M2 Detailing #7 NPC Claim [Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:14 pm

Map 7? You mean Map 2? Download the M2 NPC Claims surrounding yours and see what kind of creatures they have. Place your creatures accordingly.

How's it coming, by the way?

Witch King · Post by **Witch King** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:52 am

I am afraid that I haven't worked on this for some time now because I haven't had time for it. I think I better revoke it for now, in case someone else have time for it.

What is done:

The dialogue in
- Hlersis
- Erethan Plantation

What needs to be done:

The dialogue in
- Windmoth Legion Fort
- Verulas Pass

- Creatures and enemies in the wild

Below you can find the esp but I wasn't sure if I was supposed to clean the changes to the textures so I left them as they were.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:41 am

Well then, revoked.

Post by **Haplo** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:53 pm

Whoever claims this, make sure you fix all of the current dialogue; it's got tons of errors.

Witch King · Post by **Witch King** » Tue May 06, 2008 11:23 am

Please, be more precise!

Andres Indoril · Post by **Andres Indoril** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:56 pm

All is precise

Witch King · Post by **Witch King** » Fri May 09, 2008 12:01 pm

That isn't much of constructive critisism you know...

Post by **Haplo** » Fri May 09, 2008 12:46 pm

Well it's easier to say all and list an error that applies to it all than to go through each entry and list every error. A suggestion for the future, check over your dialogue, run it through Microsoft Word for spelling and grammar checks, etc. etc. Also if the Flesch-Kincaid reading level in the Readability Statistics is like 5, then the dialogue is too choppy and informal and bad English, like someone who hasn't started primary school yet. For intelligent beings, anything over 10 is great, and for average commoners shoot for 8+.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Fri May 09, 2008 10:49 pm

I am kinda interested in finishing and fixing the dialogue for this claim. But the most NPC work I've ever done has been to create hostiles and dead people in Map one interiors. Do I need to make a showcase or would following a tutorial (and playtesting it) be enough?

Post by **Haplo** » Fri May 09, 2008 11:06 pm

You've shown you're more than competent enough when it comes to modding, so a tutorial and playtest is definitely enough. I'll grant this to you now; you can always simply finish the dialogue and unclaim it if NPCs don't work out.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Fri May 09, 2008 11:07 pm

Don't think you need to showcase, no. Look at how dialogue was done for Map1 (between location markers for greetings and the most common generic topics, filtering with local TR_Map==Map Number when it's not filtered by ID or TR-exclusive faction, and so on).

If you don't know the basics of Morrowind dialogue, something like Srikandi's tutorial should contain all you need to know. Basically, the game goes from the top down and stops at the first possible reply, so you need to put the most precise filters towards the top and the catchall fallback replies towards the bottom.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sat May 10, 2008 11:02 am

Other most important thing: a filter that looks like "HasLocal NoLore = 0" (or something very much like HasLocal) on all non ID-filtered (or otherwise extremely specifically filtered) dialogue.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sat May 10, 2008 11:25 am

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:Other most important thing: a filter that looks like "HasLocal NoLore = 0" (or something very much like HasLocal) on all non ID-filtered (or otherwise extremely specifically filtered) dialogue.

Huh? The usual thing is "NotLocal NoLore" and it is used so that NPCs that shouldn't be verbose will not have that topic.

If you put "Local NoLore" instead it'll mean it'll only work for non-loquacious or ignorant characters.

There are many things that don't need to be NoLored, by the way. For example, a character should be able to talk about his own city...

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sat May 10, 2008 12:01 pm

I meant NotLocal, yeah. I know it's a two word phrase with Local at the end, but I do it so reflexively now I forget what it is.

And even stuff like city topics should be noLored - this way you can make drunk NPCs, for example, without having to give them a unique topic on everything, and if some quest requires a 'foreigner' (e.g. the Telvanni agent at Bahrammu one), then you don't need to create them some pointless small-talk response ("Yes, I don't live here."), and can just slap them with a NoLore script.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sat May 10, 2008 2:46 pm

To the contrary, that seems a good place to have them say why they're here or what they think about the place.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sat May 10, 2008 5:21 pm

No, it doesn't "seem" like that, it makes it obligatory. And Beth didn't do it either. (So all their sleeper types don't talk about "Balmora" (or anything other than "Background"))

It just looks nice to have a clean and empty topic list when speaking to a NoLored person.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sat May 10, 2008 10:47 pm

NoLore. Will remember that.

I take it that gets rid of stuff, like say all those disease dialogue topics, as well as the "Latest Rumors", "Little Advice" and "Little Secret" as well. Is there a way to add those last three back in while keeping the NoLore (if it gets rid of the other dialogue crap)?

One thing I haven't been able to find in the tutorials is explicitly how I get the random dialogue things for the "Latest Rumours", "Little Secret", "Little Advice" and "Morrowind Lore"?

I've been redoing the NPCs at the Fort. I don't want standard legion soldier types here. I'm also going to add another cell at the prison - two functioning ones isn't enough for me.

So far, I've been adding rumours about the drunken priest at the fort. He's locked himself inside the chapel because someone pissed on the altar. But he did it himself when he was drunk and doesn't remember doing it. If the PC is just a regular person walking through the fort, they're told that the priest has done so because somebody desecrated the altar but that there is a potion seller in the keep who sells cure potions. If the PC is in the Legion, and they like the PC enough, they'll be told the full story.

I'll take a look at the dialogue Witch King did at Hlersis and the Erethan Plantation once I get a better understanding of dialogue. I've marked the plantation owner for renaming though - I'm not potentially confusing somebody playing it by having these Indorils sharing the same name as the Telvanni grandmaster.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sat May 10, 2008 11:04 pm

The TR disease topics are filtered by the control var, so most NPCs should never have it. It has to be initialized first and it's only done for classes like healers.

Use the global Random100 for randomness. It's a global variable that is constantly changed by the engine. Let say you want to have four different options, with 25% chance each to happen, you can sort them in either of those ways:

Increasing order:
global random100 <= 25
global random100 <= 50
global random100 <= 75
-- no global random100 filter needed --

Or decreasing order:
global random100 > 75
global random100 > 50
global random100 > 25
-- no global random100 filter needed --

See? Simple, really. It's easy to adjust to the number of replies you want to have, you just need to divide 100 by that number. But you can also play with the probabilities to have certain replies rarer than others.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sun May 11, 2008 12:28 am

Kay, thanks.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sun May 11, 2008 8:55 am

w/re: NoLore:

NoLore is a short local variable given to certain NPCs (Beth used it on Dreamers/Sleepers, the dancing girls, several others) that basically should prevent them from knowing any dialogue topic other than Background unless they are specifically told they can have it.

By adding the NotLocal NoLore = 0 filter, it means only those without the NoLore variable in their script will get this topic. In order to keep a clean window for people who shouldn't talk about much (e.g. if you wanted to create a mad/drunken character) most dialogue that is not specifically ID filtered, or otherwise extremely narrowed down via filters, should have this on it.

If you then want your NoLored NPC to have something to say on a relevant subject, you give them something filtered to their ID.

One final tip: all greetings (at the 'local dialogue' level) should come under the relevant divider in Greetings7.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sun May 11, 2008 10:38 am

Ah thanks.

That confirms I have been doing everything the right way (greetings in 7, NotLocal NoLore = 0 on things) and explains how it all works.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sun May 11, 2008 6:34 pm

One last bit of beureacracy: all NPCs must have script TR_m2_NPC (or one of its variants) attached, and all slaves should preferably be named TR_m2_S_[Name].

Otherwise, I think we've bored you enough.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sun May 11, 2008 8:54 pm

What about OoT_Marksman script the Imperial Archers have? I attached that one to some respawning generic Dunmer archers becuase they were attached to the TR_Data Imperial Archers?

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Mon May 12, 2008 8:38 am

Are they supposed to chat with the character? If no, it's probably fine.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Mon May 12, 2008 11:24 am

Well they are guards. The PC can talk to them. At the same time they wouldn't be part of any quests.

At the same time I don't really know what the OoT_Marksman or the TR_m2_NPC scripts are supposed to do, so I can't make a judgement call on this.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Mon May 12, 2008 3:01 pm

You should be fine. It's been done in Map 1 for all archery-type guards, so I see no reason why it should be a problem here.

Though, I'm curious as to why you have any respawining generics. There should be no non-TR Data unnamed NPCs, except in the case of certain types of guards (Scummy just about got away with having 'Mithras' Guard' guards in Map 1). Otherwise every NPC you create (unless obviously no name should be given, like a corpse) should be named.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Mon May 12, 2008 8:59 pm

They are Dunmer Imperial Legion guards (footmen and archers). There are some Imperials guards at the fort as well.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Wed May 28, 2008 9:44 am

Dropping.

I feel as though I should drop this. To do this properly, I need time to sit down for a few hours each time, but my life just hasn't been letting me do that and as far as I can tell I'll just be too busy for the conceivable future. I don't really feel as though I have anything worth uploading, having made too little progress on it, so whoever claims this just work off Witchking's file.

I apologise for wasting time on this.

Post by **Haplo** » Wed May 28, 2008 6:40 pm

Alright, then. Do you have a WIP file?

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Wed May 28, 2008 8:55 pm

I'll have to upload it tonight.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:53 am

There doesn't appear to be any "Add Attachment" here.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:59 am

I have the same problem (see map2a8).

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:13 am

Well, the option is still there for me. And it works, I just tested it.

*deleting useless attached stuff*

Maybe a question of rights?

Post by **Haplo** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:18 pm

Should be fixed now.

Craefish · Post by **Craefish** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:51 pm

I'd like to claim this one. But could I please get a list of topics that need completing or have not been created? Also: Does the place in this area marked 'XXX' currently have no name? I don't make any of the quest dialogue, correct?

Thanks.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:08 pm

No quest dialogue, except for the very first line. Example: Hve you seen my cat somewhere? My cat has been missing. And this could become a quest (mw don't have cats, but you know what I mean, don't you).
Just ask nomadic about the dialogue and read this thread (again).

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:17 pm

The cat may be a Khajiit.

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:29 am

Granted. Please read the stickies regarding NPC work in Internal Discussion. You don't have to do quest-related dialogue. Please remember to update regularly! Idle/inactive claims will be revoked.

Craefish wrote:Also: Does the place in this area marked 'XXX' currently have no name?

What? You mean cells with an XXX prefix or cells named only 'XXX'? If it's the former then they probably have a name, the XXX is just to access it easier. If it's the latter, then they probably don't have a name yet.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:29 am

The makeup of this claim has changed an awful lot from when it was first created. This was pretty close to the worst area in Map 2 when detailing began. XXX was probably the worst settlement in TR, mainly by an unholy mixture of Telvanni and Imperial archiecture. The map is completely outdated.

This claim comprises of the settlements of the Erethan Plantation (IMO change the ruling families' name to Erethan), the Windmoth Legion Fort (where XXX was), the Verulas Pass (containing the Telvanni buildings of XXX) and Hlersis (a poor underground Indoril bloatmining settlement near where the road to Necrom meets the Alt'Bosara-Salien Vulgate road).

My thoughts of the places in the claim (only to give you ideas):
- The Erethan Plantation is owned by an Indoril noble family.
- Fort Windmoth is a rundown fortress where half the place is taking bribes from the Telvanni.
- The Verulas Pass is a curious place unlike anywhere else IMO. Of note is a hidden building currently (?) called the Morag Tong training camp. This could, potentially, be a good base for the proposed Boethiah cult in Map 2 so it is worth talking to the admins and Lud about it.

- Near to Fort Windmoth is a necromancer's cave. He bribes the fort to leave him alone.
- To the west of Windmoth is Merdekhes Norim, an ancient Velothi stronghold. Bandits and vampires are supposed to be fighting here.
- To the south of Windmoth is a cave containing the remains of smugglers cleared out by the fort in the past. Only rats and slaughterfish (and the like) should be in here.
- There is a small ashlander burial cavern. IIRC the creatures here need to be replaced with respawning ones.
- There is also the Nameci Caverns near the water. With 1200 refs, you don't want to many enemies so choose them carefully for effect.
- There is an ebony mine in the northwest. Should belong to Master Vaerin of Alt'Bosara.
- Nearby is a bandit cave of smugglers stealing from the mine.
- In the south is a Velothi tower owned by an isolationist poor Indoril noble family.
- There is also a mages tower near the Erethan plantation. There is no story behind it AFAIK, but do check the interior claim thread.

There are more interiors but those are the main things.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:18 pm

And Blackbird's not entirely right. It's often a lot easier to leave stuff like that up to the quester. You can offer hints as to the possible quests via latest rumors etc., but you should leave nothing that appears to explicitly offer a quest (so you could say 'my cat's gone missing' but not 'my cat is gone, please find him')

For Fort Windmoth, make sure you read Starcrunch's post on 'The Darconis(now Helnim) Gambit'. I may provide a link here at some point. A link to that can be found somewhere in my claim thread for the Helnim area. Also regarding FW, a representative for the Windmoth Legion is in Helnim called Servas Capris. You may or may not find cause to mention him.