q1-77-Tel

[Hemitheon]

what if he wants a Daedric artifact? I don't mean crap though

Remember in the Oblivion mainquest when you had to give Martin Septim a daedric artifact? What if he asks for one of those. And just in case the player doesn't want to give up one of the original artifacts, the player can give him a minor artifact which one of the Telvanni councillors keeps secret.

Or what if he asks for the heart or skull of a certain enlightened figure of the past who has been dead for a couple thousand years.

Third option: In the Ranyon Ruhn archives is a book on daedric scrying.

[Faalen]

I like the idea of a book on daedric scrying, but it would have to be more complicated than just walking in and stealing it. I also like the whole skull thing, but that would mean altering yet another interior, which is something I'm trying to avoid. Unless the skull is in the archives, but in that case it might as well be the book. I was actually thinking about having it be a book from the archives, but I wasn't sure if there was an appropriate one in there. Since there is, I'll try to integrate that into my outline, though I am a bit wary of overusing the "get a book" mechanism. I'm still up for suggestions if somebody has any.

P.S.
I've never played Oblivion. My computer sucks tremendously and I hate playing Elder Scrolls games on a console. I've been eagerly awaiting my opportunity to play TES:IV since before its release, and sadly that opportunity has yet to arrive.

[theviking]

Solution: The Hermaean wants knowledge. He asks you a philosophical question, like: What is the most powerfull daedric artifact or prince? (probably the answer would be the Ogha Infinitum) Another test would be a sort of riddle (you can find those easily on the iternet) which dunmer really like and which is a test of knowledge.
And I like slow but steady.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Personally I quite liked corprus. Anything that gives a pseudo-Vvardenfell based quest is good in my books. If you could make it something that would only be availiable on Vvard., that'd be cool. (But not necessary)

[Faalen]

I like Vvardenfell references too, but since corprus is such an important and recurring part of the Morrowind main quest (and many of the faction quests), I'm afraid that it would be too mundane and easy, and I think many players would say "Oh great. Corprus again." I mean, if you're a level 25 Telvanni, what are the odds that you don't have several tons of corprus at your hideout? (Especially with the advent of alchemy sorters.) I also like the idea of him wanting knowledge, but if all the player has to do is stand there and answer questions, it could easily make the riddle aspect of the quest annoying and repetitive. Are there any good unique, non-quest-related books on Vvardenfell? I'd like the player to have to look hard for something simple. In my concept, the act of bringing something to the Hermaeans is more a proof of worth than actually a help to them; they do want/need what is asked for, but what's more important is that the player is willing to bring it to them. It's all about how much and for what reasons the player wants to see Hermaeus Mora.

[Hemitheon]

How bout this:

1. You go to the Archives to find a book on Daedric Scrying.

2. Instead of finding the book, you discover a note left by someone who broke into the archives and stole it before you.

3. The note is signed by someone who is an attendee of Councilor X.

4. You ask around about the attendee and they say that person is in the service of X.

5. You find the attendee at X's stronghold and demand the book or at least the information.

6. THe attendee makes a deal with you. Bring him corprus and he'll let you LOOK at the book.

7. THe information inside talks about the art of Ashirozh, a method using dying people to scry.

8. You go back to the Hermite and explain to him the methods of Ashirozh.

9. He then is willing to transport you to Pseudographa.

[Faalen]

I like that. The thief wants corprus weepings not to infect himself, but to infect another (possibly a slave) so they die slowly and can be used to test the methods in the book. Corprus is not common on the mainland, so it would almost certainly require a trip to Vvardenfell. This could work very well. I'm going to get back to the outline. I'll finish it today, with any luck.

Edit: Having now read the book in question, I see that the method detailed involves the rapid killing of the victim. This doesn't go against my idea, though; corprus makes an infected person very strong and resilient, and so if killed in one of the ways mentioned, a victim could theoretically last much longer and answer more questions. At least, that's what the mage who has the book would like to test.

[Faalen]

I have finished my version of the quest outline. I have revised several things, changed character affiliations and backstories, and added some aspects that I think work well, but the whole thing feels very similar to Theo's original, though my version has significantly less violence. It's kind of a long read (four pages single-spaced), but it provides almost all of the details I'll need to get this done. Anybody who passes by this thread, please read it and let me know what you think. I'm quite happy with how it turned out.

Background: (This will be revealed to the player through inference and conversation.)

The Hermaeans are sealed into their cave from the outside. It was sealed by choice, so one of them had to leave to do the sealing. (This person is the “Leaderâ€Â￾ in Theo's quest outline.) He didn’t want to leave the path to enlightenment, but did it for the good of the others; he “took one for the teamâ€Â￾, as it were. He tried to continue the studies of his former companions on his own, but without the support of the group was unable to cope with the maddening things he learned, and so has gone somewhat insane. This was a turn of luck for the Hermaeans, though, because once the Temple learned of his whereabouts, they “questionedâ€Â￾ himâ€â€￾in the Inquisitorial sense of the wordâ€â€￾but he was unable to give them any intelligible information. They took his journal, hoping it would shed some light on the location of Ansura-Heramas, as well as the key to enter it, but they couldn’t understand the ramblings it contained. So it was filed in the archives, and largely forgotten by the Temple leaders. The menial task of keeping an eye on the Hermaeans’ virtually nonexistent influence was eventually shunted to a middle-ranking member of the Temple (Temple Member from Theo's outline), who is officially in charge of a fair number of things that don’t really need looking after; in other words, he’s a busy-body, but nobody would really notice if he disappeared. He comes across as very self-important, but extremely insecure at the same time.

Questions for Hermaeus Mora: (Dral’s quest. I need ideas for the questions themselves.)

Rilvin Dral, though not normally invested in the activities of others, asks for the player’s help to ask three questions of Hermaeus Mora. He wants help because, though he’s certainly powerful enough to find the Daedra Lord on his own, he doesn’t want to take the risk or exert the effort to do so if he doesn’t have to. What he’s been able to find out through his personal research and memory of past events is that the Hermaeans exist, and that the Temple is looking for them. He sends the player to the Ranyon Ruhn Temple to find out what they know. Upon asking around at the Temple, the player is told that Temple Member is technically in charge of tracking the Hermaeans. When asked about the cult, Temple Member is quite taken aback, and is not interested in discussing the subject with an outsider/low-ranking member (if the player is of equal or higher rank in the Tribunal Temple, he agrees to tell the player what he knows without hesitation. In that case, skip the appropriate parts of this quest). He tells the player that such information is not to be known by anyone outside of the Temple elite; he says this even though he certainly is not the “Temple eliteâ€Â￾. When the player points this out, he seems deeply offended, and refuses to speak further on the subject (“Goodbyeâ€Â￾). If spoken to again, he simply says, “I have far more important things to attend to than your disrespect.â€Â￾ (Journal Entry: …I wonder what could be “more importantâ€Â￾…I should ask around…) The player asks around the Temple again, and quickly finds out that for Temple Member to be promoted, he has to clean out a vampire den, and no one thinks he’s nearly up to the task. After finding this out, the player again speaks to Temple Member. He says the same line, but doesn’t give a “Goodbyeâ€Â￾ and can be asked about the vampire den. He tries to put on a brave and arrogant face, but soon breaks down and tells the player that he’s terrified at the very thought of fighting vampires, and unashamedly begs the player to do it for him. If the player agrees, he agrees to share everything he knows about the Hermaeans. He gives the player the location of the den (it doesn’t really matter where it is, but it shouldn’t be a very difficult task in order to emphasize that there wasn’t that much to be afraid of; Temple Member should not get sympathy).

After killing all the vampires, the player returns to the Temple, whereupon Temple Member tells him about the insane Dunmer who left the Hermaeans, and about the journal that was taken from him. When asked about the insane Dunmer, Temple Member gives the player his last known whereabouts. When asked about the journal, Temple Member tells the player how to get into the archives and where to find the book therein. The player takes the journal to the insane Dunmer, and finds out that he really is quite crazy. When he sees that the player has the journal, though, he becomes semi-lucid and speaks a riddle about the rising sun (assuming the sun rises in the east on Nirn; I’m not actually sure), a test of wits or some such thing, and an enchanted gateway that makes it fairly clear that the player should head as far east as possible and look for enchantments (the cave entrance has an inaccessible minor enchanted item beneath it so it shows up with a Detect Enchantments spell). When the player finds the entrance to Ansura-Heramas and activates the rock formation blocking it, a tricky riddle appears with a list of very similar answers (a cryptic clue to solve the riddle will be somewhere in the insane Dunmer’s journal, so an attentive player will have a better chance of guessing correctly the first time). If an incorrect answer is given, the entrance remains blocked and the player gets a journal update that says to check the Dunmer’s journal for possible clues. Only three chances to answer correctly will be given. After that, the player can no longer access the cave and will fail the quest. Once the correct answer is given, the rocks withdraw, revealing the entrance.

Inside the cave, the player finds a very unusual assortment of people. All are within easy reach of a bookshelf or alchemical experiment, and some are inexplicably passed out on the floor. When spoken to, they speak almost in limericks and make very little sense. Some do not respond at all. The player will eventually get through the ruin to the shrine, where they will find the oldest Hermaean, who is blind, wears only ragged pants, and carries a torch. The irony of a blind man with a torch is apparent and should catch the player’s attention. When spoken to, this man is intensely lucid, in sharp contrast to the others in the cave. He speaks calmly and wisely, and listens to the player’s request to speak with Hermaeus Mora in order to ask him Dral’s questions. He tells the player that only the most deeply dedicated and loyal disciples are allowed to see his lord and that if the player wishes to ask these questions, worth must first be proven. He tells the player that long ago, before the cult sealed themselves away, they were in possession of a very rare book on the art of necromantic scrying, and he wants the player to return with the information it contains. He tells the player that in an early Temple attempt to disband the cult, the book was confiscated and presumably taken to a Temple to be studied carefully for signs of heresy. (Journal Entry: …I should check with Temple Member to see if this book is in the archives…)

(The Hermaean will immediately have the option for the player to tell him about the book. If the player stole it already, remembers what it says, or feels like guessing, the next part of the quest can be bypassed. However, an incorrect answer to a question will result in the Hermaean’s refusal to help, and the quest will be failed.)

When asked about the book, Temple Member stutters and stalls, and tries unconvincingly to tell the player that no such thing exists, and even if it did, why would it be in the archives. The player goes into the archives, and finds a note in the book’s place that says something along the lines of “Thanks for seeing it my way, Temple Member. This will be most helpful in my research.â€Â￾ When confronted about giving someone else access to the archives, Temple Member claims that he was intimidated by a Telvanni who demanded that book from the archives. Temple Member doesn’t know his name, but says that he looked very important, and guesses he is in the service of a Telvanni Councilor. (Journal Entry: …I should ask Dral if he knows anything about this incident…) The player goes to see Rilvin Dral, who is disinterested, but says that one of his servants is currently studying the art of scrying, and gives the player his name. When asked, the servant is very open with the fact that he has the book, and very annoyed that the player wants to take it away. He proposes a deal: if the player brings him three portions of corprus weepings for his research, he will let the player read the book, but not take it. When the player returns with the corprus weepings, the servant lets the player read the book (through AddItem and Equip functions; as soon as the book is closed, the player will no longer have it). This is the only chance the player has to see this information, and it must be remembered.

When the player returns, the Hermaean asks several questions about the book that can’t easily be guessed without reading it (e.g. “What is the name of this art?â€Â￾, “What is the traditional method of execution?â€Â￾, “What are the possible consequences for the conjurer?â€Â￾ etc.). If all of the questions are answered correctly, the Hermaean is satisfied and agrees to take the player with him to Pseudographa, a pocket realm the cult frequents in order to be closer to Hermaeus Mora. The player falls asleep and is transported to the pocket realm.

Pseudographa: (This part of the quest outline is vague. I’m not sure how the pocket realm works yet, and I won’t until I start working with it. This section should be viewed as very general.)

When the player wakes in Pseudographa, the Hermaean is standing nearby and explains that the cave they left is a permanent gateway to this realm, but the ritual to pass through it is extremely precise and kept as the highest of secrets, which is why the player was put to sleep during the process. The first thing that should catch the player’s eye is that the Hermaean is translucent (Chameleon 40-50%), as is the player and all other NPCs in the area. The Hermaean will explain that physical form has no meaning here, and that what the player sees as a physical world is just their mind’s representation of more complex things it cannot fully understand. (If the player attacks an NPC in the main area of the realm, no damage will be done and no combat will be started. All NPCs here are also near bookshelves, and do not respond if the player tries to speak to them. Some of them look like the passed out Hermaeans from the cave, though this will not be mentioned. Most are Dunmer, but all races are represented; there is more than one sect of Hermaeans, and more than one gateway to Pseudographa.) The Hermaean continues to explain that he will assist the player in negotiating the realm in any way he can, and warns the player that an incorrect answer to a question in this place will mark them unworthy, and they will be unable to continue in their journey to see Hermaeus Mora. (The Hermaean will be located in several important places throughout the realm in order to help with the riddles/questions the doors ask. Only one will be visible at a time, of course, so it will appear that he is moving about the realm on his own.) The player will negotiate the realm until reaching a statue of Hermaeus Mora that can be spoken to (I may make the statue an invincible creature with dialogue to prevent overuse of the message box). Hermaeus Mora is amused by the questions Dral wants answered, and agrees to answer them if the player is willing to gain his favor with a simple task.

Hermaeus Mora tells the player that many years ago, one of his most loyal followers tried to deceive him. This person took a forbidden and powerful book from Pseudographa and escaped with it back to Nirn. He believed that Hermaeus Mora did not know of his deception, and thought that he had gotten away with this crime. He was mistaken, because Hermaeus Mora knows everything. As punishment for his theft, Hermaeus Mora took his sight from him, and forbade him ever to read again. (Note that some Hermaeans are blind by choice; they have attained enlightenment and so have no use for sight. This one was deprived of his sight before he had reached that point in his learning, and so can never become truly enlightened. It is a brutal punishment.) The player is told to take this follower back to Nirn and learn from him by any means necessary where he hid the book. Once the book is found, the player is to be transported back to Pseudographa, whereupon Hermaeus Mora will answer Dral’s questions. When the player asks who this follower is, the answer is surprising: it is the Hermaean who has been assisting the player thus far. The player asks the Hermaean about this, and he admits his crime readily. His shame and regret are far in the past; he has accepted his punishment. He agrees to take the player back to Ansura-Heramas and tell him where the book is.

Back to Nirn: (This is the final section of the quest, where all the characters are revealed as far as they are going to be.)

Upon arriving in Ansura-Heramas, the player is greeted with an unwelcome sight: all the Hermaeans are dead, and Temple Member is standing in the shrine room with a group of warriors (they should be mercenaries, not Temple-affiliated). He greets the player by saying something like, “They all laughed at me. YOU laughed at me. Well, who’s laughing now? No one will call me a coward when they find out that I single-handedly wiped out the insidious Hermaean cult! Die, heretic!â€Â￾ All the warriors attack the player and the Hermaean, who is not much help in combat due to his blindness. Once all the attackers are dead (players who are Temple members will not be expelled for killing Temple Member; if there are no witnesses and no survivors, who would tell the authorities that the player killed him?), the player goes to check on the Hermaean and finds him dying on the floor of the shrine room. With his last breath, he tells the player that the book was given to one more worthy than any other, one who was willing to give up enlightenment so the rest of them could achieve it. It is in the possession of the insane Dunmer, who is also the only remaining person who knows how to transport the player back to Pseudographa.

The player returns to the home of the insane Dunmer, and has to decipher what he’s saying and negotiate through his confusing dialogue until he understands what has happened. Once he understands, he gives the player the book and conveys that they need to return to Ansura-Heramas so the player can be sent back to Pseudographa. (I’m debating whether or not I’ll make the player walk all the way there; it would serve no purpose other than to take up time. I may just fade out and back in with the player and the Dunmer at the entrance, implying that they walked there, or I may have the Dunmer cast a spell that takes both of them to the entrance.) Once back inside the cave, the player is again put to sleep and wakes in Pseudographa as before. The player goes back to Hermaeus Mora, who is pleased that the book has been returned. He agrees to answer the questions. The player must choose the correct questions from a list of choices, and carefully remember the answers, as they won’t be recorded in the journal. Once the answers are given, the player goes back to Dral (it will be more complicated than that; how the transport happens depends on what all happens with the pocket realm) and must give him the answers verbatim. If successful, Dral agrees to give the player his vote (if this quest is still going to be used for that purpose) and asks the player to come back in two weeks. If unsuccessful, Dral will accuse the player of fabricating answers and wasting his time, and refuses to speak further on the subject (fail). When the player returns, Dral offers (reward) to the player. The (reward) is the result of Dral’s experiments using the answers as a guide. The purpose of his experiments was to prove that such an item could be created. Since it can, he now has no more use for it, and he decides that it should go to the one who made its creation possible. (This is possibly too sentimental for Dral. If so, his giving of the item to the player will be an act of condescension, to show that he’s so powerful he doesn’t even need to keep the powerful object he created.) Quest completed.



Please share your thoughts and observations.

[Theo]

I like this version very much. Together with the outstanding interiors created for this quest, this will surely be one of most immersive adventures created for TES III.

[theviking]

Wow, this questline is teh awesome! BTW, Hemitheon finished the temple archives, it can be found here: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=20454 .

[Faalen]

Thanks, Theo. As the original designer, it was your approval I was seeking and I'm glad to have gotten it.

I have the archives already, though I haven't yet merged them.

As I said in my outline, I still need ideas for the questions. I'm not nearly clever enough to come up with questions to which only the Daedra Prince of knowing everything has the answer. Also, the reward Dral gives will depend entirely on the nature of the questions. I'm also open to ideas for names for these characters.

I'm going to need someone in literature to write the Dunmer's journal, along with its associated riddles (the one the Dunmer says that tells how to find the cave and the one the cave door asks) since the journal needs to contain subtle clues to solve both of them, and it would be easiest if one author did all three things, because in the outline, one person did create all three things. If a claim is created, its description must point to this thread. It's vital that whoever writes the journal knows the backstory. Otherwise, it will come across as very phony. Keep in mind that the journal does not need to be complete; excerpts are fine. I hate to be so callous, and I'm sorry if I come across as demanding, but I reserve the right to refuse work created for this purpose if it doesn't fit. The atmosphere is very important to maintain, and the journal is a centerpiece of that atmosphere. Whoever claims it should post here or PM me for clarification on anything that isn't understood.

I'm very glad that those who have read it like my outline. I'm excited to start making serious headway on this project, and I hope to have a playable WIP posted in the next couple of weeks.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Excellent, excellent work. One hell of a quest.

Coupl'a comments - be pretty clear with the 'use Detect Enchantments' hint (brilliant idea, BTW), as most players wouldn't consider that.

Also, we'll need to create a new vampire lair for this quest, so tell someone about the need for that int.

Finally, the statue shouldn't be made into a creature (it would need animations etc. and is just unfeasible), it should have a dummy creature standing underneath it/otherwise hidden, who can be forcegreeted when required.

Of course, if we could get any of our Oblivion VAs to record some Daedra dialogue, that'd be pretty sweet.

[theviking]

Maybe the questions will be about pocket realms and how you can maintain them so that they eventually become fixed points rather than dissapear again. Dral would be quite interested in the answers to those questions. Hermaeus Mora answers that it needs to anchor to another fixed daedric realm or pocket realm. He also says that as soon as Dral finds out how to anchor it, he can do it to this pocket realm because only then HM is impressed by his knowledge.
About the vampire lair, I think the ancestral tomb in the Aranyon Pass is perfect for that. Not only would the temple member be frightened of the vampires but for the reputation of Aranyon Pass itself. (it is haunted)

[Hemitheon]

Info on pocket realms is pretty clear. This requires something more powerful, more eye opening.

[gro-Dhal]

Or something so esoteric/cryptic that it goes completely over the player's head.

[Faalen]

I'm very open to suggestions, Hemitheon. If you've got an idea you'd like included, I'd be more than happy to hear it.

My update for the day:
I have finished merging and linking all of the interiors except the pocket realm, which is merged but not linked because I haven't started NPCs yet. I have done a little more work in the Ranyon-ruhn Temple than I originally planned; since Temple Member presumably lives there, I decided I'd give him a room next to Ratagos'. Since I'm not officially an interior modder, I've uploaded the esp so it can be looked at to make sure it's up to TR standards. It's in my showcase thread (link below). Temple Member's room is supposed to look like an afterthought, like maybe it used to be a storage space. It is in a state of disarray because I want to convey that Temple Member is not nearly as collected and organized as Ratagos, and that his personality and skills are nowhere near what he proclaims. It all plays into the persona I have planned for him. The room does contain two "com" references (a plate and a fork), but I felt they fit the style. If they're a problem, they can be removed. No ownership is set because the owner doesn't exist yet.

The esp also contains the entrance to Ansura-Heramas, though the riddle is still only a placeholder message. It is located in Telvanni Isles Region 45, 17. I always get there by heading east out of PT, because COC and COE never work to get me there. The entrance will show up on a Detect Enchantments spell/potion, and the menhir formation is distinctive (three clustered together).

Please let me know what you think.

My showcase thread:

[url]http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=20427[/url]

Edit: Having just playtested again, I found a couple of errors that I made. There is a piece of paper that bleeds into a table in Temple Member's room (it's under a book, so I must have bumped it accidentally while placing things on top of it), and there is no north marker in Ansura-Heramas (slipped my mind). The messages for failing to answer the sealed entrance's question overlap when you fail the third time (I'll add some conditions). I will also add journal index conditions to all scripts once I have a journal to work with.

[Faalen]

Update of the day:
I've fixed the errors I mentioned above. NPCs are made and placed; dialogue is next. I've settled on some names that I like. Let me know if you don't like them:

Temple Member - Fedaves Teran
The Hermaean - Ildos Hlen
Crazy Dunmer - Rilamus Salenim

The other Hermaeans will just have random first names, like Ondave, Anasou, Bildammu, etc. (I love the name generator. ) The Hermaeans in Pseudographa will all have the same "name", like "Silent Worshipper" or something.

I haven't picked out which one of Dral's attendants will be the "servant" from my outline. I'll look through to find one that doesn't have anything going on, and double-check his availability before working on him.

Am I okay to use the tomb in Aranyon Pass? If there's nothing else planned for it, I'll get right on loading it with vampires.

Steady progress. All systems functional.

[Gnomey]

If they are supposed to be about the item, the questions could be about the process of creating/remaking an artifact. Say, the Sword of the Moon Reiver; a sword that was made with Mehrunes Dagon's essence and was one of the few (the only?) weapons that could harm him, and which was used to banish him in Battlespire. Dral might have managed to get a piece of the sword and wonders whether he can use that piece to forge an artifact. I'm not sure whether this sort of thing comes up much, so I think it could qualify as hard-to-know knowledge.

As an example, Dral might want to know 1. whether the small piece of the sword will be enough to make the whole sword as powerful as a sword fashioned wholly with "Daedric prince essence", 2. what rituals would be involved in the creation of the artifact, if any, and 3. whether the sword will contain any base qualities (read enchantments) related to the prince. (Sort of the same idea as Sigil stones in Oblivion).

(Remember that, though the artifact piece in this example came from a sword, it could be used to make any sort of item from a potion (if ebony can be used, why not a piece of god-essence-sword?) to alchemical equipment to clothing to the obvious weapon).

As for the reward, I like the idea of Rilvin Dral giving away the artifact just because it is no longer useful to his researches. Or he just absent mindedly grabs the item and says "here, take this for your troubles. Now leave me to my researches" or something like that. Or even "ah, you have been most helpful to my researches. Here, take this; I no longer need it".

[theviking]

Dral just tosses something at you so he can be left alone to research. And of course he will vote for you in the council if it's required. I'm sure the tomb in aranyon pass isn't used for other quests so you can start vampirising it.

[Faalen]

I'll get right on that, then. I've never worked with vampires before. Should be fun.

Today's update:

No progress. Real life, work, and a girlfriend I hadn't seen in a week took priority. Back on the horse tomorrow.

[Lud]

The tomb in Aranyon Pass has a lich in it and a whole bunch of rumours about how the locals are scared of the pass (undead are scripted to appear there at night)

I'd recommend finding somewhere else.

[theviking]

That makes it perfect for the quest, because the priest is also afraid for Aranyon Pass. A lich and a bunch of vampires basically have the same scareness level, so I think you can replace the lich with the vampires. I'll take a look at it and check wether it can be done.

[Hemitheon]

Why not just create a new tomb?

[theviking]

Because then Faalen has to wait until that is completed before he can work on it further. I checked out the Erushara ancestral tomb and I didn't find any lich and to me it seems like a good vampire hideout.

[Faalen]

So is it a go or a no-go on the tomb in question?

[theviking]

A go. If you have to replace a lich, please say so and then I will create another claim which will be an ancestral tomb with a lich. This tomb will be placed somewhere else on map1 by someone else. In any way, you can go ahead.

[Faalen]

All right. I'll look at the tomb later tonight and see what I can come up with. Barring any unforeseen circumstances, the lich will have to go, but I'll wait on a final word on that until I've looked at the situation more thoroughly.

EDIT: I've just taken a look through Erushara Ancestral Tomb, and I didn't find any liches either; it's filled with ninja monkeys (all skeletons). That being said, however, I have another plan to prevent having to completely repurpose the tomb which also eliminates the possibility of the player emptying the tomb before being told to do so, which IMO would kill the flow of the quest:

I would like to clone the tomb, and make the door accessible only when the quest is active. The clone would only have the vampires, without skeletons or loot. The story would be that the vampires moved in very recently, and the Temple wants them gone. It would be a perfect opportunity for Ratagos to test the courage and strength of Fedaves Teran, his slightly dull-witted shut-in of a subordinate. Ratagos tells Fedaves that if he wants to be promoted to the superior ranks of the Temple, he has to drive out the young vampires in Erushara Ancestral Tomb so the natural order of things can be restored. Prior to the quest, the player would find the door in Aranyon Pass labeled "Door to Erushara Ancestral Tomb". During the quest, the door would say "Door to Vampire-Infested Ancestral Tomb" or something like that, and afterwards it would return to its original state (I know teleport doors can't be altered through scripts; it would be a journal-dependent disable/enable for a second door slightly in front of the original).

Please let me know if this is an okay idea. I'll work on other parts of the quest until I get a general consensus on this plan.

Edit again: I've found an NPC I like for the Telvanni who takes the book on scrying. His ID is TR_m1_Weikal_Urenim, and he's in the Upper Tower of Tel Thenim. He doesn't have any attached scripts (other than the standard TR NPC one), and his dialogue filter doesn't show anything unique or particularly important. Am I okay to use him? I'm not actually going to alter him; I'm only changing dialogue. I just want to make sure there's nothing big planned for him that could interfere with his role in this quest.

[Faalen]

(I've edited the above post as much as I'd like to, so here's a double )

I just have a question:

What's the deal with the blind faces Peterboy made? Can I implement them myself or do they have to be in TR_Data first?

[Lud]

1) The blind faces will have to be in TR_data

2) I like the disable/enable idea. However:

. The story would be that the vampires moved in very recently, and the Temple wants them gone. Obviously the undead that normally inhabit the tomb are not much more desirable, but they're not nearly as dangerous or offensive as vampires.

The Temple put the skeletons there. This isn't necromancy outlander, this is sacred dunmer tradition! This kind of thing is standard dunmer practice, FYI.

[Faalen]

I knew the Dunmer used Ancestral Ghosts to defend tombs, because those are the spirits of the dead. I figured that since these were skeletons (animated corpses), and the Dunmer cremate their dead and find the display of entire corpses offensive (save for the knuckle bones they keep at the family shrine), maybe these might be undead of the unwanted variety. Either way, I know it's not necromancy. Thanks for clearing that up.

[theviking]

It goes even further than that, the biggest honour for a dunmer after his death is to become a bonewalker. That happened to Nerevar too. I checked on the Telvanni in Tel Thenim and he's free to use. The undead/vampire swap trick is a very good solution and you can go ahead with it. You'll have to name the blind faces TR_... (make up a good name) and then we can communicate it with haplo so the faces will be named the same in TR_data. Then you can use them in this quest already if you include them in a rar file for the testers.

[Faalen]

Well that's interesting stuff. Shows how ignorant I am of Dunmer burial practices! I'll edit that part of the post.

I'm headed to work now, but I'll get to cloning tombs when I get home.

[Haplo]

I'll name the faces in my update of TR_Data in a few hours.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Although - oh noes, another twist! - this particular tomb is probably the one spilling plaguebearer undead into Aranyon Pass, ya? So in this case it is likely a corrupted tomb (due to said lich). This doesn't really change anything, but it should perhaps clear things up more, and prevent any contradictory dialogue?

[Faalen]

I'm downloading the new TR_Data now (45 meg takes a long time on wi-fi).

So, final word, what's the history of Erushara Ancestral Tomb? Does the Temple want the skeletons and stuff back, or is it, as BC says, a corrupted tomb with evil undead inhabitants? The answer won't change anything about how the quest functions, but I'd like Fedaves' dialogue to be consistent with the facts.

[theviking]

The temple just wants to get rid of the vampires. I suspect that after the vampires are cleared away, the dunmer family wants to have their tomb repopulated by the skeletons and such. So I'm still in favor of your little swapping trick.

[Faalen]

I'm having an exceedingly frustrating problem with the NPCs that I want to have passed out on the floor. Namely, I can't get them to pass out on the floor. I've tried Set/ModFatigue scripts, I've tried drain/damage fatigue abilities, I've tried a default fatigue of 0, and nothing seems to make those guys fall over except punching them. Is there a way to force an NPC to lay on the floor (alive) without player interaction? It's very important to the atmosphere of the quest, IMO, so it doesn't matter if it's a complicated fix. I just want those buggers to fall over!

Update for the day:

Cells are path-gridded (I forgot that earlier) and I've found a balance I like on the Wander/Idle AI packages. I've started journal entries, and I'm working on unique responses to the standard lore dialogue for Fedaves (all other NPCs are either NoLore or can't be talked to). There still isn't a playable quest, but I'm gradually working towards it.

[theviking]

Take a look at the NPC Mastrius, bethesda made him unconscious permanently for a vampire quest.

[Faalen]

Mastrius' script is not intended to make him unconscious AFAIK. I've never seen him unconscious at any time, before or after becoming a vampire. I hear many people say that he's unconscious in his tomb until the player is a vampire and can do the quest to free (then kill) him, but when I go there prior to being a vampire, he's a non-vampiric noLore NPC, fully awake and on his feet. There's nothing in his script that should make him pass out, either. His fatigue is modded down so he's weak, but it's still over 100. I don't understand why he's unconscious in so many people's games and awake in mine (and presumably others).

I looked at The Winged Guar in Mournhold because I know there's at least one drunkard in there who stays down once he's knocked out, and the effect is easy to replicate. I just need the NPC to pass out without help from the player.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I'm pretty sure setting fatigue to 0 in their stats does the trick. It always has for me. Make sure 'AutoCalculate Stats' is ticked off.

If not, try setting fatigue to 0 via a script.

I know this can be done somehow, I'm sure we can work it out.


There may even be some quests already in TR where someone falls over. I'm sure I remember something to that effect.