Blue Book (House Dres) Info needed

[Jale]

Before the Industrial Revolution, the world "factory" meant tradepost. The Dutch East India Corporation had loads of them.

You gonna put that explaination in the book? We aren't writing for a pre-industrial revolution audience. The word Factory in our world means a manufacturing place. They have the same root word, but I have never heard it used such a way in English before, and I have just spent the last few months study colonialist Britain.

There's the belladonna based herbicide in Bloodmoon.

It was Bittergreen petals, and for my money I cannot remember the word herbicide used, but I will take your word for it that it is in dialogue. There is a difference between putting it in passing dialogue and putting it in a ubiquitous book. The word used in the journal is poison. The statement seems out of place to me.

Sloads -> traders -> accused of spreading the plague -> there likely won't be any in Tear as we currently have no working models.

That isn't blood rot, that is the Crimson Plague. Blood rot is a different disease in Daggerfall, as far as I know. This would be a horrifically poor explanation for lack of Sloads in Tear, and besides, it was largely eradicated in the Second Era and only features in the game in Tribunal, in that one quest. A better explanation for their absence might be an Imperial drive to blockade Thras, a disease afflicting the Sload themselves, or something of that magnitude. I cannot see the Dres ever cutting off the Sload over the deaths of a few civilians and slaves.

[Gez]

The word Factory in our world means a manufacturing place.

And the word "manufacture" isn't used anymore to refer to handcrafted stuff.

[Harke the Apostle]

There's the belladonna based herbicide in Bloodmoon.

It was Bittergreen petals, and for my money I cannot remember the word herbicide used, but I will take your word for it that it is in dialogue. There is a difference between putting it in passing dialogue and putting it in a ubiquitous book. The word used in the journal is poison. The statement seems out of place to me.

You are right. IMHO Bethesda should have used belladonna. See the Mephala quest.

That isn't blood rot, that is the Crimson Plague. Blood rot is a different disease in Daggerfall, as far as I know. This would be a horrifically poor explanation for lack of Sloads in Tear, and besides, it was largely eradicated in the Second Era and only features in the game in Tribunal, in that one quest.

Then it should be another disease, but The Crimson Plague would be too ueber.

A better explanation for their absence might be an Imperial drive to blockade Thras, a disease afflicting the Sload themselves, or something of that magnitude. I cannot see the Dres ever cutting off the Sload over the deaths of a few civilians and slaves.

I can see enterprising Dres merchants slandering the Sload to drive them out of business. It's possible that some of the Dres were more insidious than the Sload and poisoned the wells to convince The Council get rid of them.

[Jale]

And the word "manufacture" isn't used anymore to refer to handcrafted stuff.

...Yes it is. It just is. I don't know how I can prove this to you, but it simply is. As someone who works amidst artisans and craftsmen...it is.

You are right. IMHO Bethesda should have used belladonna. See the Mephala quest.

Which Mephala quest?
Daggerfall: Assassinate someone (fighting)
Morrowind: Assassinate someone (poison with Treated Bittergreen Petals)
Oblivion: Kill off a village (trick them into killing each other)

No belladonna there. Also, in game belladonna has no poisoning effects. Plus, even if you were to argue that it is based upon real belladonna and can be viewed as such, the poison in real belladonna is Digitalis, which does not to my knowledge affect plants, only animals.

I think we need a better reason to exclude the Sloads.

[Harke the Apostle]

Belladonna is also known as "The Deadly Nightshade".
Digitalis is the "Fox Glove".

If the Sload stuff doesn't work, it shouldn't be in the Blue Book.

[Jale]

Ahh yes good point, my mistake. Regardless, Nightshade poison if based on real world Nightshade would have no effect on plants either.

My point is that they would not be spraying Herbicide on their crops. While alchemists are good I have not seen in game any evidence that something can be made so specific as to ignore certain targets and go for others...i.e. a potion that might distinguish between a crop and a weed. I just think that this sort of idea is pretty poor.

[Harke the Apostle]

My point is that they would not be spraying Herbicide on their crops.

The herbicide was meant to poison the jungle so the Dres nobles could gain new farmland (in lieu of the more traditional forest fire).

Don't think of your grandmother spraying the roses.
Think of Agent Orange.

[Jale]

/facepalm

Herbicides kill plants. If you want to PLANT on a place then you don't want to poison the ground first. You have them salting the earth too? The reason they use burning is because it enriches the soil.

Regardless, lets look at this suggestion through the first principle of lore:

1. What is boring and mundane is wrong; what is interesting and alien is right.

You have the Dres doing what farmers do, and getting in trouble like any Chemical Company. It is dull.

[Harke the Apostle]

/facepalm
Herbicides kill plants. If you want to PLANT on a place then you don't want to poison the ground first. You have them salting the earth too? The reason they use burning is because it enriches the soil.

Forest fires are not necessarily something the Dres would encourage.

1. What is boring and mundane is wrong; what is interesting and alien is right.

You have the Dres doing what farmers do, and getting in trouble like any Chemical Company. It is dull.

First Principle of Lore (Principle of Alienity) - What is boring and mundane is wrong; what is interesting and alien is right.

• Sub-Principle of the First Principle of Lore - Alien in excess is mundane.

See?

The Blue Book is not meant to be full of spectacular events. See the Red Book, the Yellow Book and the Brown Book.

[Gez]

...Yes it is. It just is. I don't know how I can prove this to you, but it simply is. As someone who works amidst artisans and craftsmen...it is.

But not exclusively.
[url=http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=manufacture]Proof[/url].
"Manufacture, originally to make by hand, now means to make by machine or by industrial process: to manufacture rubber tires."

Anyway, fantasy agent orange seems to me as bad an idea as fantasy PNAC is in Xui's book thread. What's next, a fantasy JFK assassination? A fantasy mudslinging campaign by the S'wit Boat Veterans for Truth?

Find something else. It doesn't have to be awesome and Sload-winning, but it shouldn't be a blatant calque of the real world.

[Jale]

I was never trying to imply that it means exclusively handmade...

[Sload]

I liked the s'wit part Gez.

That sub-principle should be removed because its only functional purpose is to be misused as justification whenever anyone calls an idea on being shitty and lame. "Boring" doesn't even apply here, as it refers to a specific sort of boring. Rather, it states that the TES proclivity for bizarre magical things is good, whereas its sub-principle would argue that our disbelief must not be stretched too far. However, the implication of the word "boring," as opposed to "non-magickal," is that said bizarre magical things have to be intriguing, which also gives them a much longer rope before becoming unbelievable. For example, Pelinal is a genocidal robot from the future with laser beam hands, as well as a valiant and noble knight. True story.

[Haplo]

The Dres wouldn't cut off trade with the Sload, for anything short of a declaration of war against them. They make too much money from them. If you need something to explain a lack of Sload presence in Tear use something on the Thras end, such as internal strife or whatever. The Dres aren't that strong, they need all the money/power they can get.

The herbicide thing seems really weak, I think saying that a (Twin Lamps) sympathetic local subsidiary-type farmer set fire to a lot of crucial land and set back production a lot and got hanged for it would be a lot more believable and in character.

[Gnomey]

And hanging? Who was ever hanged in TES? I always though that Argonians had more of a head-on-a-stake-ish form of excecution, while Dres would probably use a colourful demonstration of magic.

[Jale]

Chuck em in a pit of voracious mudcrabs.

The ravenous mudcrabs of Morrowind can strip a corpse down to its bones in a matter of days.

Totally my style there.

[Haplo]

I was thinking more along the lines of slaves in fight pits, battling to the death while spectators taunted, spat, and pissed on the slaves locked in combat. Whoever survived was graced with an extension of servitude.

[Harke the Apostle]

I was thinking more along the lines of slaves in fight pits, battling to the death while spectators taunted, spat, and pissed on the slaves locked in combat. Whoever survived was graced with an extension of servitude.

Are you serious?

I´d think they´d either do the House Harkonnen from Dune thing -or they reward their gladiators somehow. After all, they would need them to put up a good show.

btw...can´t find the Sload Lore on Tear, where is it?

[Haplo]

They're not gladiators. They're slaves. They're workers, farmers, laborers. They just make them fight for sport sometimes when someone needs to be punished, to humiliate them and instill the sense of worthlessness. You've got to admit, getting pissed on by people would probably makes you feel bad about yourself. It's a lot more entertaining than just beheading someone. You could probably even manage to get some bets going.

The Sload Lore in Tear is everywhere. I don't know where it is but it's older than you. I don't know how you could not know about it or not find it. It's at the Imperial Library.

And what the fuck go away. This isn't Dune this is Tamriel.

[Harke the Apostle]

They're not gladiators. They're slaves. They're workers, farmers, laborers. They just make them fight for sport sometimes when someone needs to be punished, to humiliate them and instill the sense of worthlessness.

Gladiators were usually slaves or convicts.

You've got to admit, getting pissed on by people would probably makes you feel bad about yourself. It's a lot more entertaining than just beheading someone. You could probably even manage to get some bets going.

I doubt that that would work. Why fight well if the reward is having a dowager urinate over you?

[Jale]

Gladiators were usually slaves or convicts.

Put down Spartacus and pick up the game you are trying to talk about. This is Elder Scrolls. Gladiators are paid fighters. The whole game was originally going to be about getting paid to fight.

Yeh they might throw them in with some better fighters...but thats a bit dull and straight from the notebook of Ridley Scott. Id rather see slaves driven en masse into the black marsh to die. Tied to giant waterwheels and very slowly drowned as they rotate. Eviscerated by a rope around the middle holding you up, slowly cutting into you. This is the stuff of Dres.

[Harke the Apostle]

Gladiators were usually slaves or convicts.

Put down Spartacus and pick up the game you are trying to talk about. This is Elder Scrolls. Gladiators are paid fighters.

I doubt the pit fighters of the Dres would be paid, at least not initially...but there needs to be at least a ho and a bottle of Sujamma for the winner...

[Jale]

Who pays to watch untrained vermin when a decent fight could be seen? Nobody. Especially not the Dres. It would be an uncreative way to die.

[Harke the Apostle]

Who pays to watch untrained vermin when a decent fight could be seen? Nobody. Especially not the Dres. It would be an uncreative way to die.

Don´t think pay. Think reward. If a convict kills another in a graceful way, he will be cheered rather than spat on.

[Jale]

I declare it a bad idea.

-It is from Gladiator and thus unoriginal
-It does not fit with established lore (namely arenas in previous games)
-It is a dull way to have them killing people, not imaginative enough.

In no way is it a good idea. Drop it.

[Sload]

I declare this conversation tangentially relevant at best and fucking stupid at worst.

[Gez]

Meh, use the Catapult Ordeal, it's funnier. You put the convict in a catapult and toss him against a cliff. If after the splat the body clings to the rock, then the convict is deemed innocent and all pursuits against him or her are lifted. If it falls, though, then the convict was indeed guilty. In either case, the people got to watch funny entertainment.


More seriously, the Dres are very cynical guys and they have giant wasps. When someone is sentenced to death, his hands and feet are cut off and then he's sent in a skyrender hive to get giant wasp eggs laid in his chest. After that, he's imprisoned in a little cell made of very thick wasp paper and dies there of pain, blood loss, thirst, starvation and all that while the eggs hatch and the larva devour his corpse until they are strong enough to cut the paper with their mandibles and get out.

When House Dres has to breed more giant wasps for whatever reason, justice becomes harsher so as to increase the number of death sentences pronounced. If it isn't enough, there's always slaves.

[Harke the Apostle]

The next version...

Code: Select all

<DIV ALIGN="CENTER"><BR>
Council Affairs of Note<BR>

<DIV ALIGN="LEFT"><BR>
King Hlaalu Athyn Llethan, High Councilor and Lord of Morrowind, renews the contract of the Tear Branche of the East Empire Company. The merchants and egg-miners are overjoyed with the increase of the trade quota.  
<BR>
<DIV ALIGN="LEFT"><BR>
A clash between slaves and Daedra worshippers at the border of the Argon Jungle left three villagers dead and wounded scores of slaves. The civil unrest that followed culminated in the destruction of several farms and caused serious delays in production. Following the official inquiry, The Council has sentenced those found guilty to the Slave Pits. 
<BR>
<DIV ALIGN="LEFT"><BR>
Following several incidents of con-men who fraudulently purported to be intermediates of the Sload in Tear, The Council have instituded a bi-annual allotment for trading Sload merchandise, to be auctioned off to the highest bidder at the end of every second year. Importing Sload merchandise will be the exclusive right of the purchaser of the allotment for two years. The Council guarantees the quality of the goods traded by the owner of the allotment.
<BR>

[Thrignar Fraxix]

the jungle is harsh and unforgiving. No one but the argonians live there, the rest just commute. There are no dres cities or farms in the jungle.

[Nomadic1]

I can't imagine the Dres openly announcing they trade with the Sload. After all, all contact with that race is illegal in the Empire. Sure the Dres don't give a fuck about Imperial law, but they aren't stupid enough to announce they are flaunting it. Rather, all mention of Dres-Sload trade should occur in latest rumours amd little secret dialogue topics, and other relevant dialogue.

[Sload]

Final version

Code: Select all

<DIV ALIGN="CENTER"><BR>
Council Affairs of Note<BR>

<DIV ALIGN="LEFT"><BR>
King Hlaalu Athyn Llethan, High Councilor and Lord of Morrowind, has revoked the contract of the Tear Branch of the East Empire Company. The merchants and egg-miners are overjoyed that their business is no longer being stolen by foreign organizations.

The second one, which has engendered such lively discourse, was removed because it was not news. The third one was removed because I agree with Nomadic, just because having rumors about it instead of having it discussed openly are cool.

The first one, you will notice, was completely reversed because what you said made no sense.

[Harke the Apostle]

I feel there should be one or two additional notes for that year. Is it still the book of 3E 411, or has that idea been discarded at this point?

[Sload]

Discarded. Yes there should be more notes.