Map 2 NPC Claim #8 [arvisrend]

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:25 am

Dun Akafell is different now. The as-yet unamed dragon lover of Almalexia who held Morrowind in place with time broke used to live there and there is now an associated SuperQuest(TM). Its interior will also be edited so there's no point touching it.

Also, the underground exteriors are lame. They stick out majorly and the rain is definitely an issue. Kebra ÃƒÂ©tait pute de con.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:27 am

I don't know of any others than the one he posted screenshots of, which is very nice.

immortal_pigs · Post by **immortal_pigs** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:17 pm

Je suis une petit confused as to what the above is about.
I dont believe the underground exteriors stick out that much. The fact that rain gets there isn't a problem, since rain will get anywhere in the game. That's the way it works. Shelter doesn't disable rain.

I checked again and I found the unlinked interior, sorry for not taking a second look before assuming.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:01 pm

Akamora interior i2-16 Egg mines headquarter doesn't have a second entrance. Add a second entrance or remove the unlinked door. Teh best option would be remove the door, because the interior fits the exterior.

immortal_pigs · Post by **immortal_pigs** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:56 pm

I already fixed that problem, blackbird. I did the first option you porposed. Here's the first WIP:
It features 0 dialogue, 20% done with populating Akamora, o% done with Tomaril Manor, 100% done with populating Dragon Nest Inn and Kellidan and a few pathgrids.

Two questions;
Once I'm done placing NPCs in Akamora, the population will probably be 90-95% Dunmer. Is this ok?

How can I quickly assign ownership to things?

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:36 pm

1. Ok, Akamora is an indoril town and the indoril aren't fond too of (meddling) outlanders, especailly Imperials.
2. Drag a box with the mouse and select every item. Seect the NPC who should be the owner and press the apply to selection button.

I have token a random house to illustrate the effect.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:28 am

immortal_pigs wrote:That's the way it works. Shelter doesn't disable rain.

Which is why exterior interiors are bad. Thankyou for explaining my objection for me.

Post by **Gnomey** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:12 pm

Yeah, the point is that the rain is very visible there. I think the largest exterior tunnels that Bethesda made were probably in the cantons in Vivec. Very solid structures, which look very strange when rain pierces through them.

In a larger tunnel the effect generally looks much worse. Of course, a special region without rain would already fix the problem, though not as well as could be hoped.

immortal_pigs · Post by **immortal_pigs** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:45 pm

WIP #2

Dragon Nest Inn is now 80% done. Only 1 NPC needs more in-depth dialogue. The Baro Kelaius NPC is intended to be part of a quest. I intend to give a Redguard NPC similar dialogue to that of the Nord and Baro. Which means he'll have one or two stories to tell which take up quite a bit of dialogue space.

Questions;
Near Dragon Nest Inn there's this Egg Mine. It seems out of place, since Akamora is miles away and I don't see the Dragon Nest Inn people as Mining Eggs along the side. What should I do?

There is no TR_ingredient called Spiced Potatoes. The dialogue in DNI does mention them. Should I just take the token potato, rename it, and than save it as a new object?

I don't know how the renting a bed script for Inns works. Any suggestions as to how I can do that?

I'm sorry for what I said about the shelter and stuff. I was confused as to why it would be a problem, I know now. I hope there's a way to preserve the exterior interiors, but I'm not an exterior modder, so go ahead and do what is necessary to fix the problem. [A special region without rain sounds a bit extreme to me, unless that region would be very very small. Though I do prefer to have rain above anything else.]

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:55 pm

Let it be.

Sure.

Look at one from the game to see how they work.

immortal_pigs · Post by **immortal_pigs** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:10 pm

I have created a questline for Akamora so I can make NPCs and write dialogue with that questline in mind.

The questline is fairly complicated, and involves 3 Egg Mining families that will come into conflict with eachother.
Later on the Lord of Akamora will come into play, with the ultimate goal making his city independant from House Indoril.

At the moment the questline is still an overview, I want to know if it sounds like a fun idea, and if it is feasible.
So please take a look at it and tell me if it is good enough, or needs major changes.

[This is my first attempt at writing a complicated questline]

*******************************************

Present Situation:

Lord Novas Senim is the current ruler of Akamora. He lives in the topmost manor on the rock island in the middle of Akamora. He owns the Amlani-Senim Egg Mine and the Sannisaren Egg Mine. The Aravel Family, which lives one manor down, are his most trusted allies.

The Athram family [represented by 1 guy] controls the Athram-Athmikala Egg Mine, as well as the Miner's Club in Akamora. The Veri family [represented by 1 guy] is an important ally invested in the Egg Mine. The head of the Akamoran Guard is invested as well.

The Pyoris family [1 woman] controls the Tiranat-Pyoris Egg Mine, along with the commercial Underground Bazaar and the Laughing Goblin Tavern.

The Varen family [1 guy] holds the Varen-Salenith Egg Mine, together with the Salenith [1 guy].

The Temple, lastly, has the Abanidanon Egg Mine, in which most of the poor and pious Akamorans have invested.

3 Sides to choose from.

Seras Athram
'Bad Guy Side'
Description: A very authoritarian man, a little arrogant, but always very clear in what he wants. His family has its roots in Akamora.
Allies: Alanil Veri, Akamora Guard Captain.
Goal: Acquire the funds and support to eventually overthrow Novas Senim to become the new Lord of Akamora.

Daryos Varen [and Rolam Salenith]
'Good Guy Side'
Description: Two good friends and professional bussines partners. Daryos inherited his Egg Mine from his deceased father. Both lived in Almalexia before coming to Akamora.
Allies: Eachother.
Goal: To expand their business and ensure its survival. Later on either of the two dies, which will change the goal.

Telera Pyoris
'Neutral Side'
Description: Rich and intelligent. She owns the Bazaar and her own Egg Mine.
Allies: Herself, and most everyone invested in her business.
Goal: To acquire all the local Mines, to create a mining corporation, and to later expand further.

2 Other Sides that come into play later on;

The Temple
Description: The local Tribunal Temple.
Allies: The poor and the pious.
Goal: Maintain order and peace, ensure the well being of the Akamoran population.

Lord Novas Senim
Description: Successor to the Tomaril Lord of Akamora. A rather rebellious personality.
Allies: Aravel Family.
Goal: First to maintain his control over Akamora, second to obtain allies and support in the immediate area, and ultimatly to separate Akamora from House Indoril and to found an independant city-state.

The Questline is first initiated in the latest rumors; there is conflict between the Egg Mining families. The PC can first go and talk to the 3 beginning players. [In the beginning] Athram requires high combat skills or a high level and a high Indoril rank [5 or higher]. Pyoris requires high Mercantile and Speechcraft skills, and having a lot of money on hand. Varen requires nothing. A vampire, criminal or diseased will not be accepted by anyone. The Athram will require you to swear an oath of service. First the PC must prove himself through completion of 2-3 small quests. The Pyoris will require you to start working only for her after 1-2 quests. Same goes for the Varen. The overview of the questlines looks like this:

Athram
Part 1: Prove worth through tasks, very difficult tasks.
Part 2: Gained Worthiness, now the Egg Mine quests, removing competitors; fairly open ended.
Part 3: Gained Trust, now Athrams real goal becomes clear. Now you must help him take over Akamora.
Part 4: Gained Friendship, Athram is now a true ally, Lord Novas Senim has been removed. Aftermath quests.
Rewards: Support, Money, Objects.

Pyoris
Part 1: Talking Quests.
Part 2: In Business; Lobbying Quests [acquiring investors].
Part 3: Acquisation Quests.
Part 4: Possible Allignation Quests.
Rewards: Money, Clothing, Shareholder.

Varen
Part 1: Looking for Customers.
Part 2: Acquiring Aid.
Part 3: Opening up a Second Mine.
Part 4: Conflicts. [Varen aks you to kill his friend; Varen is being influenced by Mephala]
Choice: a. Kill Varen b. Kill the Friend
Part 4a: Resolve Conflicts, Solidify Position.
Part 4b: Mephala; stimulate conflicts, resulting in chaos and many deaths.
Rewards a: Being a nice person, your own Egg Mine, can still finish other questlines.
Rewards b: Being Evil, a very cool and powerful weapon created by Mephala.

Possible Outcomes
[If the PC does not do the Varen line, the Varen Family will always be wiped out.]

Athram
Athram Family holds all Egg Mines, save for the Abanidanon. Pyoris and Varen Family have been wiped out.

Athram > Pyoris
Athram Family maintains a large share of all Egg Mines, Pyoris has been spared because of her economic value. Varen Family has been wiped out.

Pyoris
Gained once Pyoris Questline has been finished. Varen Family is wiped out, Athram Family still has a small bit of shares of their own Egg Mine.

Pyoris > Athram
Pyoris decides its useful to aid Athram in becoming the new Akamoran Lord. A deal is made, with many advantages for the Pyoris. The PC can now proceed to aid the Athram Family in the final quest-line.

Varen [A] + Athram.
The good Varen Guy acquires Pyoris Egg Mines, by working with Athram. Wealth is now evenly spread, good guy retires, PC is left with the rest. PC can now proceed to aid the Athram.

Varen [A] + Pyoris.
Athram has been financially wiped out by this coalition, wealth is evenly spread. Good guy retires, PC gets his half. Lord Senim can no longer be replaced by the Athram. The PC can still eventually acquire the Pyoris funds as well.

Varen .
A Family War errupts, the Athram and the Pyoris go killing eachother, the Senim Family joins the battle. In the end both Athram and Pyoris are wiped out, the Senim's ally is dead, the Temple is desecrated, and half of the Akamoran population is killed. Varen will challenge the PC to a battle, kill him, and a manifestation of Mephala will appear and reward the PC with a Daedric Artifact.

The Lord Senim factor comes into play later on. Standardly the Senim questline can be initiated once the PC has a sufficient level and ranking in House Indoril.
The PC will then play through a few questing stages until eventually Akamora revolts from House Indoril rule and attacks by House Indoril have been effectively beat down.

The PC can also start the questline is the PC has acquired any outcome that excludes Athram and Varen . Lord Senim will recognize the PCs efforts and accept him regardless of Level or Rank.

Playing the Lord Senim line will automatically shut out doing the Athram line.

The Lord Senim line will look like this:

Part 1: Internal Strength; [if possible] eliminate the Athram and allies, then acquire funds and support.
Part 2: External Strength; The PC will have to travel around and acquire alliances and support [Tomaril guy, Temple, Necrom, Ayemar, Sailen Vulgate, Telvanni, Imperials] some support will shut other options off. The point is that the closest threats to Akamora must be pacified.
Part 3: Rival; possibly Senim has a Rival who he must deal with first, lest he play a part later on. .
Part 4: Revolution; the PC can give an official letter of independance from Lord Senim to the Grand Ascendant, rejecting any ties Akamora has to House Indoril.
Rewards: Money, Influence, full support of Lord Senim.

In the internal strength line the PC will have a lot of influence shaping the way Akamora will look. The changes won't affect the questline, but are just there so that the PC gets to have an influence. For example the PC could decide to have the Pyoris removed and make all Egg Mines a collective good for the people of Akamora. The PC could also decide that the one collective Egg Mine should be privatised, and that no taxes should be given to the profits of the Egg Mines.

From hereon there would be a few quests to get House Indoril acceptance of independance. Say after a failed short war the Grand Ascendant reluctantly accepts the independance, or the PC makes it diplomatically unwise to denie Akamora its independance.

I'd also want to include a path in which the PC betrays Lord Senim, say he pretends to have killed the rival for example.
The PC should not get punished by House Indoril for supporting the revolution, but betrayal should be rewarded.

I haven't thought of how the Morag Tong, which has a guildhall in Akamora, could play a role.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:58 pm

You should contact theviking so he can create a claim for this if one doesn't exist it, so you can place your quest there. This is the place for exterior, interior, NPC, and dialogue work.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:21 pm

The Varen Manor used to be the manor of the indoril councilmer. IIRC, there are still some indoril and temple related books there. But this has changed to senim.
Perhaps the varen family could have some ties with the senim family or they used to belong to house indoril.

immortal_pigs · Post by **immortal_pigs** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:52 pm

WIP #3

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:21 pm

Thanks. However, please make sure you keep your file names to within convention. This should still be named TR_Map_2_Detailing_A2S.esp

Naming them Map 3 will only add to confusion

immortal_pigs · Post by **immortal_pigs** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:46 pm

New file:

immortal_pigs · Post by **immortal_pigs** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:31 pm

New file,
wilderness has been pretty much populated.
Akamora is also almost fully populated.

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:03 pm

Thanks; when I said A2S up there in my last post, that was a typo. I meant A8S, since this is Area 8. I almost confused myself there

immortal_pigs · Post by **immortal_pigs** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:14 pm

Little progress:

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:02 am

Any progress this past month?

immortal_pigs · Post by **immortal_pigs** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:49 pm

Akamora is nearly completely NPC'ed, Wilderness has been populated, though maybe not to the full extent needed, Dragon Nest Inn is nearly finished save for one NPC, and lastly Tomaril Manor hasn't had any changes yet.

Currently I'm working on the Akamoran dialogue so most of the progress from now on will be coming in the form of dialogue implementation.

Should I first upload my dialogue plans each time before I plan to implement them? At least that's what I plan on doing.

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:58 am

Sure, that'd be good.

immortal_pigs · Post by **immortal_pigs** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:32 pm

Revoke. I lack both the inspiration and the time to finish the work on this.

The attachment has the small amount of dialogue I've already done, + an outlay for the dialogue of all other NPCs. Whoever claims this might be able to use this.

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:05 pm

Revoked per request

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:46 am

I will claim this for exterior fixing. This is the phantasmic Kebra claim which looks cool, but needs a lot of attention for fixing and checking. BUT there is something I will ask in return for this hard work. I had put lot of efforts to detailing maps 1 and 2 and patching some exteriors but I had no opportunity to claim and design a town of mine. Is there some reasonably big town on maps 4-6 I could reserve and claim later?

EDIT: I am not offering to write the dialogue. I am offering to fix the tons of exterior errors that remained there because Kebra left this unfinished. (Floaters, caspering rocks, unequal static distribution, trees growing in almost horizontal direction from the cliffs, vertex spikes, stretched textures...)

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:03 am

Granted for fixing of mentioned issues. Regarding cities on map 4-6, I guess there are a few that would require rebuilding. Since I'm not that updated on the TESIII part of TR, Haplo might have more to say on which cities that are to be rebuilt. But you have my support on your request, since you've been a good contributor to TR.

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:12 am

Thanks for your support Nemon! Kebra's claim has a big potential to be truly outstandnig, but requires a lot of attention. Since this is map 3 now I will try to keep pace with other map 3 detailing claims.

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:41 pm

Pretty much all the Dres settlements will need to be redesigned/redone. Also, Blacklight/Baan Malur can be redone by you completely if you wish.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:02 pm

Theo wrote:I will claim this for exterior fixing. This is the phantasmic Kebra claim which looks cool, but needs a lot of attention for fixing and checking. BUT there is something I will ask in return for this hard work. I had put lot of efforts to detailing maps 1 and 2 and patching some exteriors but I had no opportunity to claim and design a town of mine. Is there some reasonably big town on maps 4-6 I could reserve and claim later?

EDIT: I am not offering to write the dialogue. I am offering to fix the tons of exterior errors that remained there because Kebra left this unfinished. (Floaters, caspering rocks, unequal static distribution, trees growing in almost horizontal direction from the cliffs, vertex spikes, stretched textures...)

WTF? I have detailed and fixed that claim. I doubt you'll find a lot errors.
However I should have removed the big ruin 'interior' and replaced some shacks because they were bleeding in the cliff.

Could you give me a list of m2a8 errors?

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:12 pm

Okay, before we all start a major discussion on whether or not this claim has floaters/bleeders and such, are you Theo sure you've checked the last updated version? I honestly have close to no idea since (as I stated earlier) I'm not too updated on the Morrowind part of TR. Blackbird is a thorough modder and it would not sound like him to leave out alot of those bugs...

to make everyone smile.

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:39 pm

I am sorry blackbird. I didn't mean to imply you did sloppy work on the claim. It is just so complex and great that it would be wonder if there were no errors even after my round of fixes. However beside obvious errors I want to address less obvious ones like vertex spikes or inappropriate use of textures etc.
I have used the most recent version in this thread.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:48 pm

Anyway, good to get these things fixed before official beta is released. Kebra's creative use of meshes left quite a lot to check, from multiple angles.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:54 pm

ok, thank you for uploading those screens.

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:25 am

Ok. Before I really get on this I would like to have the 'blessing of the elders' for some radical changes to the claim I would like to implement.

Kebra did use some unique moding techniques, some of them look excellent, some less IMHO, but all of them are inconsistent in methods in which most other exterior makers work and create a strange feeling of alien landscape. I am asking to what degree should I address those issues:

1) Exterior caves and tunnels. Yes they look good. No, there must be no problem with the rain, if rain will be disabled in the appropriate cells (cumbersome solution, I know). No, there must not be problem with FPS, I can reduce the number of refs to a reasonable number without destroying the feel of them. Yes, they are very different from the way interiors have been made. So
A) Keep them as they are.
B) Turn the big ones into regular interiors and keep the rest in the exterior.
C) Turn them all into regular interiors.
D) Burn them with fire
(I vote for option B) though I would ask some interior modder to transform them into interior, while I would remove them from the exterior.)

2) Trees growing in funny angles from rocks and cliffs.
I would prefer if trees were growing from dirt instead in reasonable angles. I plan to put dirt where possible under the trees (there is no texture variety in the claim anyway - rock everywhere) and simply remove those growing from such weird locations like cliffs etc.)

3) Texture and terrain mixing. AI rocks on WG textures etc. I would like to use more standard clutter.

4) Detailing some cells, where there is not enough of references IMO.

Which am I allowed?

EDIT: As I said, blackbird. It is not your fault that there are still some errors. I believe this claim will never be completely error free. On the second look there are really not that many as I was afraid there would be. I just want to give a hand now that you do not have time.

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:33 pm

1) I'm guessing B gets my vote too. I just want that one with the stairs that he posted a screenshot of to stay as an exterior.

2) Yes

3) Yes

4) Yes

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:06 pm

OK, I am on it. The exterior-interior issue will be addresed as a last one.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:37 pm

I totally agree with Haplo, unless he decides to edit his post to such a degree that I will find myself forced to withdraw my consent.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:06 pm

I'd say just as long as that temple is destroyed, there's no problem. That temple was Almalexia's original temple in Mournhold. Why the hell would a duplicate exist in Dun Akafell? Int modders could be 100 times more creative than to reuse that mesh.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:14 pm

1) B gets my vote too
2) Seems ok to me, although I didn't feel like using a variety of textures. I was thinking about the mountain part should be an almost rocky part and the southern hills might have some GL textures and GL stones.
3) Never thought that those 2 would fit in the mephalian mountains.
4) I believe almost every cell has more then 100 refs. Judging from your previous claim (i4-17-hla), I believe that is too less clutter.

I understand what you're saying.

@hemi: Because the citizens of Dun Akafell were rivaling with Mournhold's citizens. Or maybe because the temple of Mournhold was a common temple.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:21 pm

blackbird wrote:@hemi: Because the citizens of Dun Akafell were rivaling with Mournhold's citizens. Or maybe because the temple of Mournhold was a common temple.

That's preposterous. No duplicates of the Temple (if we're talking the big pearly pyramidesque) should exist, I'd have thought. It's supposed to be Mournhold (centre of religion in Morrowind)'s unique building. That's like having a second Eiffel Tower out in the French wilderness somewhere.