[Morrowind] Public Feedback

[immortal_pigs]

2) Nope, TR factions will remain separate, due to the stance you mention later on.
3) Cast 'Divine Intervention' in the closest place to Firewatch on the Mainland.
4) Nope, there is a quarantine due to the Blight, so I don't think the stance will change anytime soon.

And about the Cliff Racers, I heard vaguely that they might be part of the Mephalain Mountains, which are part of a later Map. I don't think there will be as many as in Morrowind, though.

[Gez]

3)There could really be an easier way to mainland than run across water.

How to go to the mainland, take your pick:
1. Swimming.
2. Waterwalking.
3. Levitating.
4. Divine Intervention from Tel Mora.
5. ALMSIVI Intervention from Sadrith Mora.
6. Effe-Tei's travel dialogue from Mournhold.
(7. The almighty Testing Skull.)

but is it likely to expect quests of some sort, that take place on both sides of the Inner Sea?

Likely, no. Possible, yes. There could be a quest like the Bloodmoon bittergreen petals quest (bittergreen petals can't be found on Solstheim, so for this Bloodmoon quest you have to go back to Vvardenfell). It is somewhat limited by the fact that we will not modify Vvardenfell to add an NPC or quest item. But it is technically possible.

However, we'd rather make quests that get the player to explore the new land rather than quests that tell them "to play Tamriel Rebuilt, go back to unmodded lands!" I'm sure you can see how it's a bit self-defeating...

[NormanK]

1. Swimming.
2. Waterwalking.
3. Levitating.
4. Divine Intervention from Tel Mora.
5. ALMSIVI Intervention from Sadrith Mora.
6. Effe-Tei's travel dialogue from Mournhold.
(7. The almighty Testing Skull.)

What about getting back?

I used Almsivi in Firewatch and got trnasported deep into the mainland instead.

Edit: Which makes sense I guess, seeing as the same spell works in Sadrith Mora as well.

[blackbird]

I have a theory about how this intervention spells work.
My assumptions:
exterior world: the game knows always the position in coordinates of the player and the divine/almsivi intervention markers. When a player cast a spell/ use scroll the game will compare the coordinate values of the player and all the markers. The distances between the player and the markers can be calculated by a quite simple formula and will be compared to each other. The shortest distance or the lowest number will be chosen. That number will correspond with a location of such marker.
interiors: I presume that the game will search the doormarker at the exterior world linked to the interior. The process will be the same as above. I wonder how the game does it with multiple interior cells; I guess it will be a doormarker linking progress.

NormanK, I suspect the distance between Firewatch and Ranyon Ruhn is shorter then the distance between Firewatch and Molag Mar?

[NormanK]

From the looks of it, definately.

Anyhow, I'd suggest a steadier transportation system between the mainland and Vvardenfell than the indirect route through a transporter in Mournhold.

Maybe one could use a gondel to cross the Inner Sea after the blight is gone?

[osiris]

Any Vvardenfell-Mainland transportation system will be included in the core mod; but probably Bloodthirsty Crustacean (and I hope even other modders) will release his own lore-friendly transportation plugin once Map 2 and Map 3 gets implemented.

[Gez]

What about getting back?

1, 2, 3, 6, 7.

I think if you go way down south to the edge of the map, you'll be close enough from the Wolverine Hall complex to try Divine Intervention.

I have a theory about how this intervention spells work.

Yeah, that's how it works. And for when you're in interiors, I think it looks for the shortest number of cell transitions until the exterior; if there are no transitions at all you're considered to be still in the last known position you were at. This is why, when you're in Mournhold or Sotha Sil, the world map will put you in Ebonheart -- there's no connection to the exterior world, and your last known position was at Ebonheart.

[Guest]

Yeah, that's how it works. And for when you're in interiors, I think it looks for the shortest number of cell transitions until the exterior; if there are no transitions at all you're considered to be still in the last known position you were at. This is why, when you're in Mournhold or Sotha Sil, the world map will put you in Ebonheart -- there's no connection to the exterior world, and your last known position was at Ebonheart.

That's true. I haven't thought about the last known position (even OB has this issue). There is still the mournhold case, but I won't break my head about it.

[Gnomey]

Anyhow, I'd suggest a steadier transportation system between the mainland and Vvardenfell than the indirect route through a transporter in Mournhold.

Actually, in my opinion it's perfect as it is. There's a quarantine, meaning that technically you shouldn't be able to leave Vvardenfell except in special cases. (There was some discussion about this before, but that's beside the point). That would mean no ships, no Silt Striders, (even if there weren't the inner ocean to block that route), no guild guide and no other "official" mode of travel. While technically a connection with the Dunmer fort system would make sense, it's set up fine as it is, going in a circle around Vvardenfell. That's why people have to use other methods to go to and from Vvardenfell. (Though really there should be travel to Vvardenfell, now that I come to think of it. As long as you don't come back they don't mind you visiting blight land).

[cenobyte]

Maybe you could add some kind of transportation that smugglers use to travel from mainland to the island nad vica versa? You know that in the game there is a lot of smugglers on island and a lot of talk about smuggling.

[osiris]

Maybe you could add some kind of transportation that smugglers use to travel from mainland to the island nad vica versa? You know that in the game there is a lot of smugglers on island and a lot of talk about smuggling.

Infact, Gez's no-longer-available old transportation plugin came up with this idea (which was good, but never worked for technical reasons that would be too long to explain here). I guess that other modders will release similar transportation plugins later because, I repeat, TR doesn't modifies Vvardenfell and no Vv-Mainland transportation system will be added to the core mod.

[JuliusMagnus]

I haven't come across dialogue that explains the times when the Firewatch gates are open and when they are barred.

Have I overlooked something? Normally I'd expect the guard to inform me when the gates will open or close.

edit: this is regarding the Firewatch gates.

[Haplo]

What gates?

[osiris]

Haplo, he's talking about the gates of Firewatch.

[Ivan]

Levitation platform in Telvanni Council house works not perfectly. If player have for example absorb magic spell so to receive levitation player should either wait 65 seconds or change cell. I selected birthsign "atronach" ans I've got levitation only on fourth attempt! Maybe change script - 65 second too many for situation like this. 3-5 seconds would be fine.

[JuliusMagnus]

What gates?

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear: the gates in Firewatch, like osiris said.

[Kahkrahra]

Hello, I recently brought a few things that were overlooked in the weapon meshes in TR Map1. I don't know if they have been corrected in 2.0 yet or not but I brought this matter to attention on PES and Osiris recommended me posting it here. This is a copy and paste of it:
In the earlier versions there was a problem with weapon handles being the wrong size. Not saying anything bad about it, they might not have even been TR's work. But heres a few examples: http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb303/Slaughtering/Broad_handle.jpg http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb303/Slaughtering/Dagger_clipping.jpg http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb303/Slaughtering/Dagger_handle.jpg http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb303/Slaughtering/Mace_handle.jpg http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb303/Slaughtering/Orc_handle.jpg http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb303/Slaughtering/Orc_blade.jpg

These many of these 1h meshes use the handles of 2h weapons, and some handles are just too fat and not using the specific handle sizes in Morrowind. Like I said these could have been corrected in 2.0 but I'm not gonna download that massive file to find out. I'm just bringing it to your attention.

[TheCrazyCat]

1- Include Connary's Texture Compendium (not complete;WIP). However, since he's still working on it over at the Beth forum's, He has expressed interest (except his damn caves are WAY to bright. Tell him caves are DARK!! lol ^_^)


2-Vality7 has some fairly sweet mod's, use Val's with say, Forest's of Vvardenfell to have a few tree/rock overlap's adding a greater variety of lush forest area's (not good for the desert region's though, it look's wierd to have so much green in a desert area)

3-Daggerfall combat, via, button extension. (tap a button to get combat mode. Thus entering into a mouse swinging attack while using the directional movement on the keyboard.

example- W=up, A=left, S=backward, D=Right, Q=look down, and E= look up. While the mouse swing's your weapon about.


4-Don't suppose you have a genius in yer pocket that can fix that darn "Seam" dilemma? I know it's the engine, but work out a script to add more ground trigger's or whatever they're called to get rid of seam's. =)

5-Lastly. As nice as Oblivion look's, please make the mod's for ALL tamriel for Morrowind. Yeah that's right, screw Oblivion (hardy har har ! ^_^).

Those are my thought's =)

[Haplo]

@TheCrazyCat -

Third-party mods will continue to remain the responsibility and joy of players. TR will not force people to experience content that not everyone wants.

[Gez]

1- Include Connary's Texture Compendium (not complete;WIP). However, since he's still working on it over at the Beth forum's, He has expressed interest (except his damn caves are WAY to bright. Tell him caves are DARK!! lol ^_^)

No. TR does its own stuff and does not go around stealing other mods.

2-Vality7 has some fairly sweet mod's, use Val's with say, Forest's of Vvardenfell to have a few tree/rock overlap's adding a greater variety of lush forest area's (not good for the desert region's though, it look's wierd to have so much green in a desert area)

We do not think we need more vegetation variety and we aren't making landscapes which have lush forests at the moment.

3-Daggerfall combat, via, button extension. (tap a button to get combat mode. Thus entering into a mouse swinging attack while using the directional movement on the keyboard.

example- W=up, A=left, S=backward, D=Right, Q=look down, and E= look up. While the mouse swing's your weapon about.

No, we will never change the gameplay. If you want a gameplay mod, use it alongside TR, it's compatible. If you don't want a gameplay mod, you can still use TR. See how it works? This way it's win/win! Now if we did merge DF combat, then people who don't want it would avoid TR because of that, and people who do want it would also avoid TR since it would conflict with the latest version of DF combat that has just been released some times after TR was. So it would be lose/lose.

4-Don't suppose you have a genius in yer pocket that can fix that darn "Seam" dilemma? I know it's the engine, but work out a script to add more ground trigger's or whatever they're called to get rid of seam's. =)

Engine limits are not our problem. See MGE or MCP for this. Or even OpenMW. What you're raving on about "ground triggers" sounds like utter nonsense to me. If you're talking about ground textures in exterior cells, scripts are utterly unable to affect them. If you're talking about lighting seams in interior tiles, there's nothing that can be done other than making everything fully bright.

5-Lastly. As nice as Oblivion look's, please make the mod's for ALL tamriel for Morrowind. Yeah that's right, screw Oblivion (hardy har har ! ^_^).

The Morrowind province is all the work we're committed to do for the Morrowind engine. It has many limitations which makes large scale mods complicated and lengthy to create. Oblivion's engine isn't perfect either but -- with its worldspace management and superior region generation tools -- is leagues ahead of Morrowind. Still, Hammerfell is all we're committed to doing for it. The next province will presumably be for TES5, whenever that's out.

[Chin Music]

Yeah part of the reason I love TR so much is that it manages to stay true to all original visions for the game. I was skeptical when I first downloaded it, thinking I would find major towns missing, or environments that weren't in place with the rest of Morrowind.

That's kind of my problem with conversion mods and mods which add all this extra forest or foliage. I think Morrowind looks like what it's supposed to look like the minute you take it out of the box, it's supposed to be this ashy, inhospitable place, but also with weird and wonderful alien flora and fauna.

I was very pleasantly surprised and even amazed that the people at TR are talented enough not only to stay true to Morrowind's feel, but to also expand on it without feeling out of place. Like with Water Striders. I had never even heard of such a thing existing in the Elder Scrolls but TR makes it look like it was always meant to be there.

By all rights TR is virtualy its own development studio. The quality standards are impeccable, and the members are committed to making what will undoubtably end up as multiple expansions worth of content.

Edit: One thing you mentioned about making the TR factions separate. Is it really necessary? I don't mean that you should have the quests which make you go back and forth between Vvardenfell and the mainland, but the factions shouldn't be separate. It would feel silly already being the Master of the Fighter's Guild on Vvardenfell, only having to join all over again at the lowest rank on the mainland.

I wouldn't mind doing quests that seemed beneath me within the faction (So a Master of the Fighter's Guild for example would still be required to complete simple quests to advance the mainland questline, because they're separate), I just don't want to have the factions be two separate entities.

[Kovacius]

There is some interaction between the mainland and the Vvardenfell guild chapters, so you don't start at the very bottom of the mainland guilds if you're already up in rank on the island. Unfortunately, it doesn't work the other way around, so you could be high up in a mainland guild and still have to start from scratch in the original game's organizations.

I understand that they have no intention of impacting the original game any more than is absolutely essential, so it's not likely to change.

The foliage and landscapes will apparently differ even further from the original game as the TR project gets to other areas with unique climates and features (deserts, jungle). As long as the overall "feel" of Morrowind is followed, I've got no problem with that. Of course, the mainland SHOULD be somewhat different from the island, since Red Mountain has a much greater impact on its climate and geology.

[Gez]

If by "desert" you're thinking "Sahara-like warm sand desert" there won't be any of that in Morrowind. The only such deserts on Tamriel are to be found in Hammerfell and Elsweyr.

Going by the broader definition of desert (places with sparse vegetation, nearly no population, and little precipitation), though, you have the ashlands. Some parts of Solstheim could also qualify.

The only place where you'll find a region that is really different from Vvardenfell is in the deep south, the Argon Jungle.

[MMMowSkwoz]

Hi there,

I've been lurking here for a week or so now so I thought I'd sign up to say how impressive the first map is. I downloaded it and had a quick wander around Friewatch and its surrounding areas - very nice. I'll post up the few errors I found in the other threads, but in terms of other comments:

- As someone noted above, it seemed very odd not to have any explanation from the guard of why the Firewatch gates were barred. In any case, I just climbd up the nearby hill and was able to enter through an unlocked door (should it have been locked?).
- I found a 'fat lute' in 'Chatal Mendor: Armourer'. I thought this was just a Bethesda joke, rather than an actual item to be used?

[101]

Like the title says above.

You don't think Tamriel will be built in one scroll do you?

[Chin Music]

Just a thing, with regards to the NPCs that usually teleport you to/from Mournhold, I noticed the other day that the one in Mournhold can actually also teleport you to Firewatch (and Firewatch to Mournhold).

I think this is a useful feature but all 3 transporters should be able to take you to the other two places. Currently if you are on Vvardenfell, you have to go through Mournhold to get to Firewatch and vice versa.

And one another thing regarding them. From Mournhold, the NPC asks you if you would like transport to the "mainland", meaning Firewatch. I think this is a bit odd, considering that Mournhold IS on the mainland.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

"Mainland" is used opposed to "Vvardenfell". (So in that context it makes sense: "Vvardenfell or mainland?" It's not like I stop calling Europe "the continent" or "the mainland" when I'm not in England) I think that's right, anyway.

Asciene Rain is meant to only teleport the PC to Mournhold because that's her job (she's your only way in).

Blokey in Firewatch is meant to only teleport the PC to Mournhold, because that's his job. (" ")

Because both guys could have teleported you to ET, he needs to be able to send you back to either. It's not 'meant' to be a means of travel between Vvardenfell and Morrowind Mainland, but it just so happens that it is.

[Chin Music]

Yeah, you don't stop calling a place "the mainland" when you're actually there. But if you ARE on "the mainland" then you DO stop saying that you want to go there.

I do suppose it makes some sort of sense that the only way you could get to the mainland from Vvardenfell by fast travel is to go via Mournhold considering the quarantine on Vvardenfell (and Asciene Rane doesn't really have a reason to transport you anywhere else), and it avoids tampering with the vanilla game too much but I honestly think it's a good addition. For being so close, it often feels like you're very isolated from the mainland. Really, if you go to the trouble of making an NPC in Firewatch have that ability, thereby giving a method of fast travel present nowhere else, why make that extra step just the little bit more inconvenient?

I understand that Vvardenfell's isolation is how it's supposed to feel, but honestly, I was glad to discover a method to get between them faster.

Also, just thinking, I'm assuming that Garrus Mellorus' services aren't available if you haven't spoken to Asciene Rane first?

Edit: I've also just been exploring Port Telvannis more thoroughly, and I really like it a lot. I especially liked being automatically given levitation inside the council hall. I just want to mention/suggest a few things.

The Telvanni Council hall has a hallway of sorts which leads deep, deep underground, but viewing the council hall from the exterior, it is not connected to the ground in such a way to suggest an area so large. I suppose it's not really important.

But to suggest something, I thought it would be fitting for the actual items/wealth in the Telvanni Vault to be kept out of reach way at the top of the room (because it's such a large room), requiring they be taken by levitation/telekinesis, or even suspending the objects themselves.

And lastly just a question: Vivec is a city where three of the Great Houses have a fairly large presence, are there any other cities like this? Vivec seems like a special example of a city that is controlled completely by the Temple, where even Almalexia is the seat of House Indoril. Are there even other villages or towns that are not subject to rule by one of the Great Houses or the Empire?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Necrom is the biggest example. Also Almas'thirr (see Lore and Quests discussion).

Re: Garrus Melorus, it should work that guards on the mainland, hearing of DB attacks, point you to Firewatch rather than Ebonheart.


Oh, and once Map 2 releases, I'm gonna make a 'second-party' plug-in that creates fast travel between Vvard and mainland through C+E Offices.

[Chin Music]

I thought Necrom was also an Indoril city, but with an extensive Temple presence, considering Indoril is the most pious house and has the greatest relationship with the Temple (with all/most of the Ordinators being Indoril). Would that make it a special example again where a city controlled by one House also hosts others?

Also just thinking here. Indoril buildings are usually grey and green. Would guards in bonemold look out of place? I know Indoril has their own bonemold set.

[Hemitheon]

Necrom is technically in Indoril territory, but is Temple controlled.

[MMMowSkwoz]

Oh, and once Map 2 releases, I'm gonna make a 'second-party' plug-in that creates fast travel between Vvard and mainland through C+E Offices.

Do they search you when you travel? No importing of illicit substances!

[Haplo]

Also just thinking here. Indoril buildings are usually grey and green. Would guards in bonemold look out of place? I know Indoril has their own bonemold set.

Necrom has it's own special Ordinators In Mourning to guard the city of their dead.

[Chin Music]

Wasn't referring to Necrom. I meant other Indoril cities like Almalexia and Akamora. I can only assume that Almalexia employs more common guards outside Mournhold itself.

[Haplo]

Almalexia will have Ordinators. The Embassy will have regional guards (for example, the Telvanni area will have Telvanni guards, etc.). Akamora will presumably have Ordinators as well.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Really? Why Akamora?

Surely normal Indoril towns would just have Indoril guards in TR's Indoril bonemold? Or is Akamora a special case?

[Aiwyn the Breton]

Why? Aren't the ordinators Indoril guards?
Their armor are "Indoril Cuirass/Helmet/gauntlet ecc." so i suppose "Ordinator" and are MA as bonemold, so I suppose (and I think most Map4/5/6 developers share my opinion, reading lore discussion) "ordinator" is just a pompous name for Indoril guards... striclty connected to and use by the temple but always indoril guards.
(Myself, i had to read a bit to see "indoril" was not the amror material... )

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

No, the Ordinators are a seperate holy military order, they are not Indoril guards.

Many of the Ordinators are of House Indoril, hence the name of the armour, but they are a seperate entity, and there's nothing stopping a Telvanni become an Ordinator, for example. They do not answer to House Indoril, but to the Tribunal. They decide where Ordinators are posted.

[Haplo]

Sorry, I shouldn't have said it would 'just have Ordinators'. I meant that its significance would be such that it would probably have an Ordinator there, not that it would be run, guarded, and patrolled by them.

[Guest]

Why? Aren't the ordinators Indoril guards?
Their armor are "Indoril Cuirass/Helmet/gauntlet ecc." so i suppose "Ordinator" and are MA as bonemold, so I suppose (and I think most Map4/5/6 developers share my opinion, reading lore discussion) "ordinator" is just a pompous name for Indoril guards... striclty connected to and use by the temple but always indoril guards.
(Myself, i had to read a bit to see "indoril" was not the amror material... )

Yea, in actuality "Indoril" is the pompous name for Ordinators. They are separately governed and managed from the Great House, they answer to the heads of their different Orders(there are several),the Alma Rula, and the Tribunal. Of course, because of the deep connection Indoril has with the Temple and the Ordinators(also important to note, that they are separate organizations), it would not be surprising to encounter Ordinators more often in Indoril cities and towns.

The best example to consider, historically, would be Knightly Orders of Europe, such as the Teutonic Knights. They ultimately answered to the Pope, but most of them were of Germanic decent. There is probably a closer relationship with the Ordinators to the Temple priesthood, but as seen in TESIII, they can opt to ignore them as well. Ordinators would also operate as inquisitors hunting down heretics even in the priesthood, so there are some major differences.

Also, to make clear, Her Hand's are neither part of any of their Orders, nor are they Ordinators, and they don't even have to come from the Ordinators, although I believe many did.


Just thought I'd unload my Ordinator knowledge, probably the only aspect I might be considered an expert on here.