Racism in Mainland Morrowind?

[AnAdoringFan]

As one progresses throughout the game of morrowind, completing quests and strenuosely analyzing dialogue and lore to the point of exhaustion, one cannot help to notice , the morrowind is, in essence, plain and simply, a racist nation. Taking into account social, cultural, and behavioral norms, the Dunmer attitude towards beast races, (and in some places outlanders in general), reflects many social conflicts pressing the real world today, (no, not the world of nirn). So, I, as someone curious, express inquiry as to what T.R.'s plans are for prejudics against the the beast races escpecially in coming maps. Will foot travel even be an opion in the rural highlands of the Deshann Plains? Will slave traders accost one's player, hauling them off to the Slave Markets of Tear? Where will racism be prevalent on Mainland Morrowind, and to what degree? Post your thoughts!

[immortal_pigs]

Like you say, Racism was always a part of Morrowind. The extent racism will probably vary quite widely. Hlaalu and Redoran would seem like the type to not really have a lot of racism, but it'd still exist. The Indoril and Dres would be more racist, which would fit in the general ideals they hold. The Telvanni however, aren't necessarrily racist. If a beast race happened to excel at magic, it would probably gain respect. Then again, racism would also vary per person. So not all Indoril would be racist per se, and there might be a few Dres that aren't either.

But practically seen, it would depend on what the questers and NPC makers decide to create. I for one, find racism to be kind of boring to put into a game, so most of the NPCs I'd make would not be extremely racist. But it could be that other questers or NPC makers will implement racism. It really depends on whether or not it would be fun.

[Chin Music]

I don't think it's really right to deny any one race a privilege in a video game.

You have to find a certain middle ground between what works with lore and style and what makes for a good game. And crippling a player just because they picked a race that is thought of dimly is not only unfair it's a major turnoff for people new to the series, who don't know why it's like that.

In reality House Telvanni wouldn't likely admit a beast race and an outlander besides into their ranks, let alone allow them to rise high in the faction, but an exception is made for the video game to make it fun for everyone. This is a game where racism is present, it's not a game that's about racism.

And as far as I've seen, people seem to tolerate each other. In Morrowind, only extremist factions like the Cammona Tong are openly and violently hostile toward outlanders of any race. There's not really any deep-seeded hatred between races in general, certain races don't deliberately attempt genocide of others just because of the way they look, and all races are treated equally under the law. Social status can affect people's perceptions of you, whether you are an outlander, slave or outlaw, but this only between other social classes, never based on race itself (So while a Dunmer might be wealthy, he would treat a Dunmer slave as any other slave).

Slaves are a different matter. Just because you're of a certain race it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone simply sees you as slave material, even House Dres, built on slaves, would not be so callous as to attack and enslave someone based purely on their race. And slaves exist as all races. While I think the beast race's larger appearance as slaves definitely has something to do with racism, the proximity of the Argonian and Khajiit lands as well as the general status of their people (It seems Khajiit and Argonians are more likely to be poor and uneducated [and even criminal] than other races, but of course this does not speak of all beast races, and the socially higher ones are treated as such) also have something to do with it.

To clarify, Khajiit and Argonians are mainly used as slaves because the Dunmer are exploiting the downfalls of their culture and kingdoms, not because they view the beasts as "inferior beings". It is still prejudice (as is all slavery) and any self-respecting Argonian or Khajiit would be mortified, but it is not racism as such.

In Morrowind (the game that is) the distinction of you being an outlander is deliberate, so as to make your disposition with all the province's factions equal, as the social status of being an outlander is more prominent to citizens of Tamriel than the racial profile.

In conclusion, racism is something which makes an appearance in Morrowind and in all of Tamriel, but it is not something which is a problem for the province, not something that affects everyday life. Racism is something far more real and present in real life than it is in The Elder Scrolls.

[Gez]

There won't be stuff such as slavers capturing your beastrace character and hauling it to the slave market. It would just be horribly difficult to script, all rather pointless anyway because even if it worked, people would just reload a save just after losing the fight.

Anyway, it's heroic fantasy, you know? People play a hero. Even when that hero is a furry, it's still a hero. The mysterious stranger with a body count higher than a small army's one is not someone you pester like the common mortal.

[Hemitheon]

The House Dunmer have all at one time had slavery. Only House Hlaalu has abandoned it. So when you speak to slaveholders they will of course talk down to the Beast Folk. If you think the Telvanni were bad wait until you meet the Dres.

[Gez]

... slavery. Only House Hlaalu has abandoned it.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7453/11904870760011oo5.jpg[/img][/url]

[Thrignar Fraxix]

I have always dreamed that the Dres wouldn't allow non-dunmer players to advance past a certain point. As far as the telvanni are concerned, they care more about power and skill than actual race, or at least this is how I justified it. BTW, As I recall redoran doesn't allow slavery either.

As far as how racism will be handled, I would imagine there will be disposition hits and possibly the occasional service refusal. (not anything game breaking though, you would just have to go to Joe Common's Alchemy shop instead of Fancy McRich)

Like I said before, I also hope for some Dres factional limitations, but I doubt that will be implemented.

[AnAdoringFan]

Responsive Dialogue Perhaps?

i.e.: "Argonian Fetcher, if it was up to me you'd be strung on a post in the city of Tear."

Or other such hints to give ambience and setting to the culture of House Dres. Not outright hostility, just enough to get the mood of the game, much like dialogue cued in map one that Abolotionists were n'wah, or that Dunmer were uncivilised and stuck in ancient traditions (Commander of Firewatch). Perhaps isolated incidents of farmers in remote shacks attacking one's player, but nothing to prevent them from enjoying the mod.

[Hemitheon]

I agree with TF. Beast Folk should never be allowed to become a high level Dres member. Another reason is distrust. Black Marsh has recently retaken large areas from Morrowind. The Dres would be highly suspicious of an Argonian desiring to reach Magnate level.

[Zalzidrax]

Though if we're going to limit play options like that, it's only fair to allow for an anti-Dres faction associated with Black Marsh or Elsweyr that conducts guerrilla raids, frees slaves and mistrusts anyone who is Dunmer.

[Chin Music]

Like I said, the distinction of being an outlander in Morrowind is so that every character is given equal opportunity, regardless of race. For the sake of a video game and for people who aren't nearly as lore-crazy as us I think it's important to maintain that equality regardless of lore. I'm not saying to remove a major city here, this is foregoing the inclusion of something which barely exists in the game as it is.

Restricting the ranks on certain factions is fine by me, so long as it applies to all races. The absolute most actual gameplay intrusion with regards to a player's race I would like to see would be a lower starting disposition and maybe a bit of altered dialogue. Outright refusing a player certain things just because of the race they picked (probably unknowingly) isn't exciting or fun, it's lame.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

Though if we're going to limit play options like that, it's only fair to allow for an anti-Dres faction associated with Black Marsh or Elsweyr that conducts guerrilla raids, frees slaves and mistrusts anyone who is Dunmer.

life isn't always fair though

[AnAdoringFan]

I hardly believe its a matter of fairness. The fact is, in reality, the Argonians/Khajiits would most certainly have a guerilla movement to some degree. Whether or not this is an integral part of Map 6 is a different story. But the continual enslavement and abuse of a group of people would most certainly warrant resistance to some degree!

life isn't always fair though

[Gez]

Though if we're going to limit play options like that, it's only fair to allow for an anti-Dres faction associated with Black Marsh or Elsweyr that conducts guerrilla raids, frees slaves and mistrusts anyone who is Dunmer.

The Twin Lamps?

Anyway, this is the land of the Dunmer, who are a proud and more-than-slightly xenophobic people. Of course there's going to be more options for Dunmer characters.

[Chin Music]

life isn't always fair though

Then it's a good thing this is a game and not life.

[Nomadic1]

IMO all races, including Argonians and Khajiits, should be allowed to join and advance in House Dres. When the player joins up, the Dres should be more than happy to have a new pawn. They give the PC shitty jobs for a few ranks before deciding the PC has potential. But they need to be tested so they have the PC do stuff to prove loyalty to House Dres over compassion for slaves or pro-Imperial sentiment. Like the Dres arrange a slave uprising in some minor plantation and send the PC has to end it. The Dres secretly spy on the PC - if the PC does anything other than massacre the slaves they decide the PC has no future in Dres. Shit like that. Even for Argonians and Khajiits - remember that Argonian looking for that farmer who helps slaves escape, and then reveals himself to be a Camonna Tong agent and tries to kill him?

Anyway, all this talk is too early.

[Gnomey]

Anyway, this is the land of the Dunmer, who are a proud and more-than-slightly xenophobic people. Of course there's going to be more options for Dunmer characters.

I thought that it was specifically mentioned in Morrowind that the Dunmer hate outlander Dunmer as much as any other race. They're xenophobic, not necessarily racist. (Though many are racist). Outlander Dunmer come from outside of Morrowind, so they are foreigners, and Dunmer don't like any foreigners. I don't think that the player should be able to get any further in House Dres if he/she's a Dunmer.

As for slavers, they already exist on Vvardenfell. You find them in the caves dotted around the island, trying and failing to properly capture the Nerevarine, and either dying or killing instead.

Of course, House Dres also has its own slavers, who would generally look for outlanders. I don't think that they should just let the player pass by; instead I think that the ones in the countryside should forcegreet the player and interrogate him. If the player isn't able to give a convincing reason for being there the player gets thrown into a slave pit. (Simple travel script; the pit could even be set up as a jail and the slavers as guards: if the guard decides to capture the player the player gets a high bounty. The player can either buy himself out or become a slave(=go to jail)).

In towns, or at least Tear, I think that hospitality papers should be required. If you don't have them, to the pit you go. The player could be given a chance to escape, like in Oblivion but not so obnoxious. (I always wonder whether the player is deliberately handed the lockpick so that the guards can have fun either watching him break it while trying to escape or killing him).

But as for the Dres faction, I'm not too sure whether the distance you can go should be limited. Not because it's unfair, but because that gets rid of the interesting part. There are so many possible ways that I can think of for someone to get a high rank in a faction: the person might be popular, and it's a sort of gesture of good will to another faction which would aid he faction's political ambitions, or the person could be placed there as a puppet in reply to someone's complaining about something, or the person might be used by part of the council as part of a strategy to get power, etc. Those are just the dull, traditional reasons; I'm sure that a much better reason could be thought up.

From that point, it would only be a matter of taking advantage of Dunmer law. Duelling with the leader of a faction seems to be a standard procedure for the last advancement in Morrowind. If the player is thrown into a council seat for whatever reason, he/she could simply challenge the leader to a duel and the leader would be forced to comply, and the Dres would be forced to accept the player. That's when the assassination attempts can start. In my opinion, there are very few social functions which cannot be achieved. It's only a matter of using or making the right situations. It should certainly be a difficult path, and preferably not even a visible one at first, but it shouldn't be an impossible one, IMO.

Edit: But yes, this talk is too early. As was said before, it really depends on how far the NPC makers and questers are willing to go.