n8-20-Mis

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:10 am

would everyone be cool with that model being unique and the smaller one generic? since jelle wants to model it we might as well use it.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:58 am

Don't we generally avoid using things that don't fit simply because someone has already done it.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:31 am

some background-

I made the same point as Haplo to yellow in IRC. He says he can chop the model up and make similar but different temples for every city.

The problem I have with that is that it would require an entire interior architecture set for the temples, whereas the other Temples, being identical except for the images depicted on their walls, would require only a single model for their interiors.

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:57 am

Though I first preferred the idea of having diverse temples in every city, I am now leaning more towards a slightly more uniform approach. To me, it seems that the minor aesthetic setback that having more similar temples would entail does not outweigh the tremendous practical advantages of that approach.

From the aesthetic point of view, I think we can all agree that the most crucial aspect of these temples should be what I will call "flavour". Rather than having diverse buildings which, while impressive, do not show a lot of flavour, the modular structure would allow us to add a lot of Raga imagery, which I believe is a lot more important.

Secondly, the modular approach is significantly superior when it comes to the practical modding business. It will allow TR a decent balance between efficient modding (we don't have to wait a few months for a single building) and aesthetic customization (see previous paragraph.)

Naturally, even if we use the modular temple system, that doesn't mean every temple has to look like a copy-paste job. I made a little list of suggestions for models which I think should allow for a good balance between technical feasibility and diversity:+

Interior

1) "Temple skeleton"
This model would include the temple's prime architectural features: general shape, supporting walls, roof etc. For the sake of diversity, even this could be retextured easily. (For the laymen, retexturing a model like this, given that the textures are already present -for example other stock city textures - is a matter of minutes.) This would probably be the temple's central room, preferably under the domed roof. See 4 for possible extensions.

2) Frescos/wallpaintings/etc
These, positioned at the same pivot point as the skeleton's central pivot point, can be fitted easily and freely in any of the "temple skeleton"'s open slots.

3) Other decorative ornaments
Optional. These would work in a similar way to the frescos, but would involve minor architectural features such as wall niches, little shrines, etc. They would again fit in some of the "temple skeleton"'s open slots.

4) Extensions*
Optional. These would certain "connector" elements, such as short hallways that could potentially be used for adding on other rooms and, as such, would require corresponding modules on the exterior. These, too, would grid snap into one of the skeleton's empty slots. See the paragraph beneath this list for a few extra thoughts.

Exterior

1) "Temple skeleton"
Copy job from interior: This model would include the temple's prime architectural features: general shape, supporting walls, roof etc. For the sake of diversity, even this could be retextured easily. (For the laymen, retexturing a model like this, given that the textures are already present -for example other stock city textures - is a matter of minutes.) This would probably be the temple's central room, preferably under the domed roof. See 4 for possible extensions.

2) Frescos/wallpaintings/etc
Optional on the outside: These, positioned at the same pivot point as the skeleton's central pivot point, can be fitted easily and freely in any of the "temple skeleton"'s open slots.

3) Other decorative ornaments
Copy from interior:
These would work in a similar way to the frescos, but would involve minor architectural features such as wall niches, little shrines, etc. They would again fit in some of the "temple skeleton"'s open slots.

Moreso than on the interior, these could be used to create some diversity without requiring a lot of modeling effort. I am thinking of buttresses, extra arches, frames, crenellations, etc. They would have no bearing on the interior structure.

4) Extensions*
Copy job: Optional. These would certain "connector" elements, such as short hallways that could potentially be used for adding on other rooms and, as such, would require corresponding modules on the exterior. These, too, would grid snap into one of the skeleton's empty slots. See the paragraph beneath this list for a few extra thoughts.

* The connectors are a little bit of a difficult matter and where possible, I think it might be best to avoid them, because they would necessitate complicated modelling work, both on the interior and the exterior. All in all, I believe, not worth it.

---------------------------------------

As a random afterthought: why not have part of the actual sanctuary be outside?

Jelle · Post by **Jelle** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:10 pm

Okay, I assume this basically means that I should just work on the original, octagonal design. I don't know if I should use adanorcil's idea on the existing octagonal WIP by angelus or that I should start over with a new octagonal mesh, using Ada's idea from scratch. I'm okay with both, but I'll wait until this is clear since I don't feel like redoing stuff.

If the temple would be that simple that it's like really low poly it won't even need a separate interior mesh, I think. In that case you could do some interesting architectural stuff like arches right under the roof acting as "windows".

TF: the mesh I started with might fit in one city, it would just be unique because it can't be used over and over again because of it's size. I actually think it fits Hammerfell in a good way. But that's not mine to decide.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:27 pm

i like ada's idea a lot, and imho it is the ideal way to go. i actually think it would be simpler for you to remodel the temple while keeping in mind the modularity, the old one has quite a few annoying errors to fix. making it from scratch allows you to plan better for modularity.

that being said, i still like the byzantine mesh. is there anything wrong with it being unique to a city?

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:45 pm

Obviously, when I said to opt for the modular approach, I never implied we had to go for the design Angelus posted, which I believe, was little more than a concept mesh anyway.

Jelle, talk to Sload, he had some good ideas with the original temple design in mind, but I don't remember them very well.

Post by **Gnomey** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:42 am

Elinhir, and perhaps a few other cities, could probably use a unique temple if one is made, IMO.

Jelle · Post by **Jelle** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:19 pm

okay, I made something octagonal. See this as the base("temple skeleton") for the exterior, though I might make more variations of pillars if someone thinks that's a cool way to create some variation. Windows, arches, doors, mosaics and frescoes can be added at the walls and the space just beneath the roof. It's also possible to place a little "tower" with frescoes, a clock, or a small statue on top of the roof.

[url=http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hfoctagonaltemplebasexs2.jpg][img]http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/3433/hfoctagonaltemplebasexs2.th.jpg[/img][/url]
EDIT:
scaled down the roof and removed those thingys to show how it looks that way.

[url=http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hfoctagonaltemplebaseig5.jpg][img]http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8871/hfoctagonaltemplebaseig5.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php][img]http://img404.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif[/img][/url]

bamman62 · Post by **bamman62** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:14 pm

Very nice models, THEY ARE PRETTYFUL!

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:37 pm

I prefer the word "[url=http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pulchritudinous]pulchritudinous[/url]" personally.

Jelle · Post by **Jelle** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:43 pm

thanks for the comments, but after more discussion on IRC I modelled this:

[url=http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hfocttemplewipv3bz7.jpg][img]http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2866/hfocttemplewipv3bz7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

It's very wip and still needs a lot of work, obviousely. However, I strongly encourage critique because at this stage it's still rather easy to mess with the overal shape.

Under the dome, in the middle, is the actual interior located which will be a seperate mesh. There will be placed 8 small domes on the roof. 4 of the sides of the "complete" mesh are pieces of wall with those windows and arches, and the other 4 are walls with big frescoes on them.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:27 pm

it looks like the interior will be very small, i was envisioning it being much closer in size to the exterior. the colonnade doesnt need to be very big imho, just big enough for people to walk around (128 units?). the dome also seems really small compared to the building, i say scale it up.

Jelle · Post by **Jelle** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:17 pm

Sorry for my absence, but I'd like to work on this temple again. I had a look at the mesh yesterday and it seems to me like it just doesn't work. Therefore I propose starting over with a completely new and clear concept.

It would be cool if anyone who has an idea could draw a little basic example and post it here.(it doesn't have to be a shiny drawing but just a visualisation of your idea) We can continue from those drawings.

If an admin thinks this thread should be moved to design again then that's okay, but I don't think it's necessary.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:21 pm

Why do you need a new concept? I believe there are enough concepts and ideas in this thread to make the model.

Or perhaps someone disagrees with me, I am by no means an expert on this, I just hate dead claim threads.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:05 pm

im just going to say this in public: please dont bump these threads. i am in contact with most of these people and aware of the current status of the claims, bumping them really wont do anything. neither will revoking, since we have no one to pick them up.

for example, jelle alerted me to the status of this and his other claim yesterday, meaning that you are replying to really out dated information.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:10 pm

then for the sake of appearances how about you get people to post here. It is the most disheartening thing in the world to see an entire section of the project as dead as this forum was earlier.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:11 pm

its still dead... only now the most dead threads are floating on top.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:16 pm

if people don't see the death they won't strive to change it

Jelle · Post by **Jelle** » Sun May 17, 2009 10:18 am

This claim is going slow but I'm still working on it. I've been having some hard months, or actually, a hard half year. This caused me to be absent at the forums, irc, school, and in a way life itself.

I have been trying to get back to a normal life again, yet that took time. The last 6 months I've mainly been living in constant anxiety and worrying, call it thinking way too much. It's hard to really think about anything that isn't related to that worry in such a way(school, friends, TR, anything), but I got out of this for the biggest part now.

Fact is though that this is still in the concept phase, since we didn't really have anything good everyone agreed upon ever.

Therefore I want to make sure I have something perfect before showing it to you, since I don't feel like starting over again. I'm working on this with ada and I'm sure you will like it when it's finished.

Jelle · Post by **Jelle** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:23 pm

Let this be the start of some sort of return. Ada did all the brainstorming and concepts for this temple, so the idea is fully his. I wanted to make some more modular parts before posting, but since I'd like to give this claim a spark of life I will post a very wip thingy.

Adanorcil already showed some of his ideas in this thread, and it was already clear we were going for a very modular temple. The basic mesh is rather plain, but modders can add modular pieces like pillars, windows, frescoes, arches, etcetera in the cs. I was thinking about 3 variations of each of these, yet I still have to discuss this with Adanorcil. The arch/window thingies on the walls are placeholders too. The actual modular models would be more detailed.

The snake pillar thingies are just placeholders and examples of a modular piece, I created them just now so that I could show the general idea. Don't know if they are even lore-acceptable for the final collection of pieces. The pillars would be way more decorated too, but this would require further conceptualisation. Frescoes are pretty easy: there are already plenty of concepts which can easily be coloured, textured on a plane, and used as a modular piece which modders can place where they want.

Rough example of a temple with all the modular slots filled:
[url=http://img93.imageshack.us/my.php?image=templerender02total.jpg][img]http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/7755/templerender02total.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Close up of the yoku statue on a pillar(I guess this can be used as a final thing)
[url=http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=templescreen01closeupst.jpg][img]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/606/templescreen01closeupst.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Its still far from finished, but if someone feels like drawing up some concepts for modular arches/pillars(decorative and yoku stuff)/etc. please do feel obliged to do so.

Post by **Haplo** » Tue May 19, 2009 9:26 pm

This is very pretty; you know my comments on IRC already.

Jelle · Post by **Jelle** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:45 pm

Made some modular parts using Lute's yoku CA as a reference. Just a windowthingy and a pillarthingy depicting some yoku snake god thingy. I could just aswell have the lorestuff messed up but it was just a little experiment anyway.
[url=http://img269.imageshack.us/my.php?image=modularstuffrender2.jpg][img]http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6384/modularstuffrender2.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Oh, and btw, I need concept art for awesum modular parts.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:51 pm

lovin' the pillars. whats the polycount on those frame things? they look rather round.

Jelle · Post by **Jelle** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:57 pm

Lady Nerevar wrote:lovin' the pillars. whats the polycount on those frame things? they look rather round.

You meanthe windowframethingys right? Blender does yet need a good polycountthingy but you can see for yourself at this picstuffs: [url=http://img193.imageshack.us/my.php?image=polycountframestuffs.jpg][img]http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8192/polycountframestuffs.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu May 21, 2009 3:50 pm

not too bad. you can cut the polygons off the backside (if they are still there) since that side will never be seen.

Jelle · Post by **Jelle** » Thu May 21, 2009 7:15 pm

Lady Nerevar wrote:not too bad. you can cut the polygons off the backside (if they are still there) since that side will never be seen.

Thanks for noting, I missed that for some weird reason. Anyway, pillarupdatetaimstuffs.
[url=http://img268.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snakepillarrenderstuffs.jpg][img]http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6687/snakepillarrenderstuffs.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Again, concept hijacked from Lute's CA thread.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:36 pm

i like it, but i think the bodies of the snakes should be thicker (they dont look like they would support the weight atm). i also dont think the inside rings add anything... maybe just put a plane there and add the rings and other details through an alpha'd texture?

Jelle · Post by **Jelle** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:44 am

Just making clear Im still working on this. Modelled one of Myzel's arches, and working on the exterior archstuff conceptualized by Ada.

Edit:
Renderthingys

Arch, concept by Myzel. Details like the snake in the center part will be done by normalmaps.
[url=http://img23.imageshack.us/my.php?image=myzelarch.jpg][img]http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8715/myzelarch.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Exterior arch/pillar ring. Pillar concept by Myzel and arches/general concept by Ada. Pillar models by ada too. I mightve messed this up because I didnt have the top perspective concept since that was still on my other pc, but I'll ask ada to send it over.
[url=http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=extarch.jpg][img]http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3341/extarch.th.jpg[/img][/url]

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:49 pm

could you post a .3ds or .odj file that I could look over? I always prefer screens over renders: I can read whats going on much better if I can see the normals.

and killer job so far!

Post by **Haplo** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:12 am

Oh hai, Jelle hasn't logged in since July 1st, anyone know where he is? A PM could bring him back from the Nether... regions.

Jelle · Post by **Jelle** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:23 pm

I'm back, I'll start working on this again after I get some sleep.

And Haplo, Ive been abroad. The Netherlands is to retarded to spend summer :p

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:30 pm

hey, drop Ada a message, he sort off took over the claim.

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:21 am

Who's working on this, Jelle or Adanorcil? And how are they doing?

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:19 pm

revoking and locking, claimed by Jelle