The Definitive Map 2 Checklist

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:37 pm

All looks perfect. Certainly release worthy.

I'll give it a playtest this evening when I have the time.

daedren · Post by **daedren** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:42 pm

Don't forget to red things out from the checklist.

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:48 pm

Checklist colors updated for daedren. I've got a big application to fill out, a thesis statement, outline, and whole paper to write, and a theatre project to do in the next week or so, but hopefully I'll get them done in no time so I can finish working on the Map 1/2 border. I think it's almost finished.

Kasan Moor · Post by **Kasan Moor** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:00 pm

Don't stress yourself to much, release of map 2 has been waited for for 5 years, so those couple of weeks don't matter.

Is there anything you can let someone else do? Not only map 2.

daedren · Post by **daedren** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:03 am

Hey Hap, good luck for all that (it's a lot of work, but I'm sure you'll get over it quite easily).
Oh, and Kasan Moor is right, just take your time. Everybody has its own life, so it isn't for a couple days that map 2 will be missed. It's preferable to take more time and do things even better (which I'm sure doesn't need to be said!).
Oh, and thanks for redding things out from checklist, Hap. It just feels even closer

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:37 am

Gez, could you run me through how to remove the names of cells properly using Enchanted Editor really quick?

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:13 pm

Okay.

1. Launch Enchanted.exe.
2. Open the map file you want to edit.
3. Wait an incredibly long amount of time until it finishes loading.
[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5330/ee01ah3.png[/img][/url]
4. Unfold the list of cells.
[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/6387/ee02nq5.png[/img][/url]
5. Go for the first cell with a name that needs to be removed.
[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7008/ee03bv1.png[/img][/url]
6. Erase the content of the NAME ID field.
[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4374/ee04hz8.png[/img][/url]
7. Go to the next cell that needs changing.
8. You are attacked by a message box!
[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9863/ee05ac7.png[/img][/url]
9. Click "cancel" since there shouldn't be any reference to these names anywhere anyway.
10. Wait for an incredibly long amount of time.
11. During this time, console yourself by thinking about how much incredibly longer it would take if you had foolishly clicked "Scan" instead of "Cancel".
12. Do some grocery shopping.
13. Write a ten-thousand words essay on a spare computer.
14. Swim across the Atlantic Ocean.
15. Swim across the Pacific Ocean this time.
16. Build a life-size replica of the Statue of Liberty entirely made with glue and matchsticks.
17. By the time you've finished the third replica, EE should have finished.
[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8626/ee06vg2.png[/img][/url]
18. Repeat steps 6--18 with the new cell.
19. From time to time, save. Sometimes EE crashes.
20. Once it's all over, institute a new policy that exterior cells should never be named unless it's absolutely justified. Modders can assign them a region if they want to find them quickly in the CS.

Kasan Moor · Post by **Kasan Moor** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:58 pm

@Gez:

Hahaha!

/spam

I believe there are still some things in the modding process that can be improved to speed up the project. The discussion about splitting up a few parts of maps is one of those things. However, I believe there have been few projects that were this massive, so learning how to structure that is not an easy process.

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:23 pm

Gez, you should really upgrade the amount of RAM you have. EE simply flies with only 2GB.

daedren · Post by **daedren** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:27 pm

Yeah, now I think about it, it only could bring advantages (of course, if implemented wisely).
I think the best option would be splitting each map in two parts, making it easier for us to conclude each of them more quickly, whilst having less errors to fix (this way, we can pay more attention to possible errors or things that should be changed, even testing is facilitated).
On the other hand, there could be releases more often, which would be cool for fans of the project and players waiting for the upcoming maps. They would have more updates and keep more time following our project.

That's my opinion. Though, if it's to be implemented, I think it should be thought wisely before making any change, otherwise we can get even more problems.

EDIT: Oh, btw hap, did you manage to delete the cell names already? If you did, you're making it really quick! Nice!

Sorry if my question is a bit dumb, but what happened to the threads "What is going on Morrowind" and "What is going on oblivion"? I always thought they were very good threads, because from there any person could get a little perspective about the current progress in each engine. Are they dead now?

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:44 pm

We already split the maps into sections for detailing and NPC/dialogue creation. Each section then has to individually pass a review for errors.

The threads in question were dumped because our blog gives a much better, and more accurate, depiction of what is going on with TR. Those posts were blog stand-ins.

daedren · Post by **daedren** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:53 pm

Ok, sorry for ask that

Have been 3 months away, so I'm encountering things different.

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:50 pm

I guess I'm finished. This has all the border work I think I'd like to be done, all the cell names removed and regions applied. Your turn for the dialogue tricks and the Helnim fix, BC. Please do those things then save it as TR_Map2v.9.esp and upload it here when you are finished. Thanks!

IMPORTANT - Please cut off the row of Map 1 cells before you start working on Map 2! And post an .esp file containing that row here. Please. Then you can start working on Map 2

EDIT - please check the regions, I didn't finish those. If you feel like finishing them for me, that'd be great. Just make sure they're all applied to the correct locations.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:17 pm

Here is the Map 1 row. Remember that in the most recent Map 1 posted by me, this row still exists. So you may have to clean it out of my Map 1 before you can merge this lot?

BTW, in Map 2, one cell remains named (one of the southernmost Helnim Fields cells: you can tell it on the region map because it's not painted beige). I assume it'll be okay to do my fixes and then hand it over to you to get that fixed last?

EDIT: Actually, there are also quite a few Boethian Mountains Cells: (30, -3) (30, -4) (29, -3) (30, -1) (29, -1)

The Helnim Fields cell is (30, -7)

And I also assume it's okay if the file I post is dependent on Map 1? It will need to be for some of the fixes.

EDIT2: And here is Map 2, the final file from me!

(And I promise this in true, unless I am asked to provide a new version)

One thing to be sure of - when Map 1 is dealt with, check this file to ensure that:

in topic 'pilgrimages' the one marked is changed by Map 2 is fourth in the list

that NPC Masalmalu Mandas has AI Travel services to Llothanis (rather than just Tel Mothrivra)

that NPCs TR_m1_Virevar... TR_m1_Milara... TR_m1_Bolnosdin (all travel NPCs) all have options to travel to Map 2 locales, and still retain their Map 1 choices

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:24 am

Sorry, this is just one thing I always forget... will our public release of Map 2 be dependent upon Map1.esm?

TR_Data.esm has been updated.

Kasan Moor · Post by **Kasan Moor** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:48 am

And would it be to big a file to merge map 2 with map 1? Maybe have that for an optional download? This minimizes conflicts and is another less plug-in that morrowind needs to load. But I don't know if that messes up savegames for people that already did map 1 things. And maybe it would be better to do that when map 1 and 2 are both final.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:57 am

We are not merging Map 2 with Map 1 until Map 2 has reached at least a polished quest stage.

Kasan Moor · Post by **Kasan Moor** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:41 am

Yeah I figured that, but we are merging them at some point?

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:19 am

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:42 am

Map 2 public release will need to be dependent on Map 1. There's no way around that until they're merged, and as you pointed out, the plan is to merge them once Map 2 is in a polished, quested state.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:14 pm

Thanks, I remembered that halfway through my next post

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:16 pm

Are there any major changes to Map 1 that I need know of to make my MCA plugin for it remain functional? Also, I want to make an Animated Grass plugin for MGE for it, but I would need to know if the landscape has been modified.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:03 pm

Some major landscape restructuring has gone on in some parts of Map 1. Check it out for yourself, and see if it effects the areas you need - I don't think it will, but you never know. (I think the most recent .esp's in this thread)

And Hap, what now stands between us and release?

Just the re-merging of the bottom of Map 1, and checking that nothing's been cocked up?

If so, I think we can get this done by the end of the weekend, if not tonight! Now that's good news!

Of course, it depends on how busy you are.

EDIT: One possible thought - as a mini-map fiend, I love things to look good on the World Map (especially now we have the expanded world map from Hrnchamd).

One thing that bugs me about Map 1 is that Aranyon Pass cells are all named, and give a huge splurge of named cells to Map 1, that looks slightly odd. Could Aranyon Pass be made into a region like Lake Boethiah? (Give it the Aranyon Pass levelled list creature as its sleep creature) It wouldn't need to go into Data, though, as it's not a major landmark region, and won't be needed elsewhere.

Also, once the final merged Map 1 file is up, you could use the World Map to check the border with Map 2 for any clear 'lines' between the maps. (Sometimes you can see clear, dramatic height changes between claims that aren't always directly visible from the CS, and that look quite ugly) Then just even out the elevation a tad in those areas, to prevent such things.

Both those two are extremely optional, though.

EDIT2: Just checked, and the most ugly seam is that between (22, 7) and (22, 8), where there's a 'valley' between 'two' hills that are actually meant to be the same hill. This could be raised up a bit, otherwise there's a quite ugly 'seam' on the mini-map.

But again, up to you, if you think we have time or not.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:11 pm

Why not just release Map 1 and 2 merged as a single thing? Much easier

EDIT: Or another idea: use an ESP to sort out the border regions, rather than the ESM. That way you could simply activate the ESP dependent on Map 1 and 2, and allow it to modify both. Someone not using either map 1 or 2 wouldn't need to use it.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:56 pm

Aeven wrote:Why not just release Map 1 and 2 merged as a single thing? Much easier

For questing, detailing, bugfixing and stuff, it's easier for us to keep the maps separate.

But they'll be merged, eventually. When both Map1 and Map2 are finished, they'll be merged. Then when Map3 is finished, it'll be merged in, and so on.

But now is not the time, as you can see.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:22 pm

I can work on both of those BC. We will need to release a new Map 1.esm that is more compatible along with Map 2.

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:50 am

I have visited TR now after long time and I realize I have forgot to remove all key elements of Highway Robbery quest. Huge apologizes for all the inconvenience caused with this sloppiness, I hope my fixes saved more work then they caused. (I believe for example I have changed all references to Gah Ouadaruhn res. Darconis to new names so this must not be on the red list...)

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:32 am

Great news, Hap.

(And I thought the plan had always been to release a compatability version of Map 1 - hence Map 1 tasks appearing on the checklist?)

And Theo, good to hear from you! Yes, the rest of your fixes were greatly appreciated, and yes, what you did to Highway Robbery was a pain in the arse.

Of course, this just means that now we can get it set up properly, as you wanted, when we next release a quested Map 1. Which is a good thing.