Map 2 Download (Kemel-Ze/Lake Boethiah)

[Aeven]

I was killing some muskflies when it suddenly crashed on me. Never did that before in Map 1. Maybe a script overloaded?

[Haplo]

See if you can replicate the error. Also, what does the error log say?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

My error list has been updated via edits. I think that's everything I can find. I've looked at all the obvious things, anyway. (i.e. border region cock-ups, dialogue losing filtering, etc.)

One thought - perhaps mention in the 'Known Issues' part of the Readme that you have to manually select both Map1.esm and Map2.esm if you want to load Map 2 in the CS.

(Also, the 'manually register the .bsa' part is slightly out of place - it should be put back with the "add this line to
the " section.)


EDIT: Oh, something else! Map 1 is missing it's nice little text blurb that appears in Data Files menus. It used to be this:

Created By:
Tamriel Rebuilt Team

Summary:
Map 1: Telvannis is the first of a six-installment project by the TR team to create the Mainland area of Morrowind. This .esm, Public Version 2.0, contains every single quest (100+) minus the Main Quest for Map 1.



Now it is just nothing. Please replace it/update it.

[Haplo]

There's a shipwreck in cell (35,8) and I don't know what interior to link to it. It's not in the release version of Map 1 nor is it in the Map1Qv0.24. I really don't want to go through four hundred interior cells to see which one is not linked to anywhere (heaven forbid I find more than one). So help please.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Just checked. That's a mistake by Theo. He placed the ship, but gave it no actual int.

Just stick a static rock in front of the door for now, or something like that.

It can have an int next Map 1, if it really needs one.

[Haplo]

Thanks, we can probably just leave it as it is for the future. All the errors have been fixed. Aeven is looking into that unfiltered dialogue bit at Dagon Fel.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

The piece of unfiltered dialogue that Aeven reported I also picked up in my last fix of Map 2. (I.e. it's not in this version)

The only piece of unfiltered dialogue that remains is the bit about "buggering escaped slaves" (encounters).

You can tell by using an NPC like Shady Smuggler or Ra'Gruzgob in the CS, who don't have access to many topics, so by filtering to them, you can check if they have any TR topics. As I say, encounters is the only one that remains. (Presumably you've fixed that if you've gone through my error report post, though)


Is this it? [Prepares celebratory pose...]

[Haplo]

I do believe that's it. All these errors have been fixed and a new version is uploaded. BC, please click the same link my post and download the updated version? To test.

Just for myself, here are some error reports Aeven gave for me to fix in the next version along with anything BC finds:


terrain_rock_wg_10 Boethian Mountains Region (25,9)
209938, 77529, 3098 "Ground is missing on one side, making it possible to walk under"

terrain_rock_wg_12 Alt Bosara (36,-4)
298538, -29880, 169 "Land seam"

TR_m2_Hlavora_Gilnith00000000 Alt Bosara (36,-4)
296047, -30505, 137 "Lacks travel services"

TR_terrain_GL_rock19 Helnim, Docks (25,0)
209978, 5175, -327 "land seam"

All NPCs lack topics about their location except the generic local area etc ones and Alt Bosara seems devoid of all life except guards



Bloodthirsty Crustacean- Where should Hlavora Gilnith offer services to, and how do I add them?

[blackbird]

Done.
Test thoroughly on a clean install please!

Also, don't report world errors like floaters or bleeders. If you do I will ban you. I'm not kidding, either.

Why not reporting them?

@BC: Wat was wrong with the "TR_Rent_Glass_Goblet" script, the name? Or can't you remember it?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Hlavora Gilnith is meant (for now) to have no travel services. This is because she does boat service, and as you can tell if you look at a map, there are no boat destinations on her side of the mainland until Tel Ouada or Bal Oyra or something. Basically, illogical miles away.

She's waiting for Map 3, when she can boat to Necrom, Gorne, etc.

The only 'solution' (not that this really needs one) is to give her a 'destination' topic entry talking about how she does boats to Necrom, and let the player work out they can't do that yet.

Two actual 'problematic' errors remaining that I found - four Lake Boethiah cells are still called 'Lake Boethiah' (although they themselves are actually RegionPainted as Boethian Mountains): (32, 1) (31, 3) (32, 2) (31, 4)

Also, around that shipwreck we blocked the door to, there are a few spots of landscape seams: southwest of (36, 8 ) and west of (37, 7)

I can't see any really major errors, just the odd floater or two. One thing: cell (30, -7) is a 'Wilderness' cell, not a 'Helnim Fields Region' cell. No one will notice, but if we're being perfectionist, we can fix that now.



EDIT: @ Blackbird - one, because that's why we call it a Beta release, and two because we'll be here forever.

Re: the script, that was a problem I caused by being an obsessive over having uniformity of TR things. (I changed your global to fit the other ones I'd done for Map 2, but somehow forgot to change the references to the global in the script)

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

"Hold it!"

One last error.


Under the dialogue Greetings section "Greeting 9", there are three entries right near the top: "Admiring Molagreahd wildlife?..."; "Be careful, traveller..."; "Isn't the Molagreahd wonderful?" all right next to each other, that incorrectly replace all generic greetings for NPCs.

What you need to do is set the 'Cell' drop-down box to be filtered to 'Molagreahd Region'.


This is quite an important fix.

[Haplo]

Can someone download the latest TR_Data.7z and TR_Data.esm and then load something like Map 2 and tell me if they have a bunch of erroneous file paths for textures now? I don't want to go through and change .tga to .dds on all the file paths and it just happened...

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Did a quick check, no errors showed up. All the meshes looked alright, too. Wasn't really sure what to look for, though.

Certainly nothing game-breaking has happened, I'd have thought, anyway.


Only thing I noticed was that the TR_Data .7z I downloaded contained the TR_Data folder twice. (So it has the .bsa etc. twice as well, making it quite a large file)


EDIT: Oh, and one error for the road. Somehow 'someone in particular' for Helnim still calls Narrusa Darythi "Narrusa Darythiand". Remove the 'and'.

[Haplo]

Thanks, I fixed it. And I don't know what was up with the TR_Data.7z file you downloaded... it's only 46.1MB for me. Anyway I repackaged and re-uploaded just in case. Also, hopefully the final version of TR_Map2_AntediluvianSecrets.7z is now uploaded to the website. I'd like one last check, preferably on a 100% clean install (or close to that) if possible, before I upload it to the proper hosting communities (Nexus, PES, ModDB).

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I've had a look, and apart from one semi-prominent casper at the stairs to the Shrine of Boethiah on Map 1 (probably not worth our time to fix at this stage), I can't see anything dramatically wrong.

EDIT: okay, some small typos that may or may not be worth fixing.

Proximus Munus' 'Background' should read Kragenmoor, not Kragenmar.

Cyria Flavius' 'latest rumors' should read Windmoth, not Windoth.

Sergius Antellius' 'my trade' should have 'too' instead of 'to'.

Helnim generic advice "you've got to be careful around the mines..." - 'touchy' instead of 'touch'.

NPC TR_m2_Dro-Shilkar should have the TR_m2_NPC_NoLore script, not the normal TR_m2_NPC one.



Anyway...

I look forwards to release! (Please let it be today. We've stalled enough already! I can't take the anticipation any longer!)

Good luck Hap!

[theviking]

Yay, a release. It is so good that you all were able to get it upto this level while I was busy with Stirk. Nice work!

[MMMowSkwoz]

Here is map 2 updated to replace the Yilgamseh books with the new Gospels.

I found that in the last version of Map 2, TR_random_book_scholar, a TR_Data levelled list, had been modified (although as far I can tell, nothing changed). This would have written over the changes made in TR_Data and prevented the new gospels from appearing in some containers. With Haplo's permission, I've cleaned that out of the Map 2 .esp, but have included an .esd file of that one change for posterity. In case it does cause a problem, you can just merge the .esd with Map 2.

I haven't changed the name of the file. Should I?

[Haplo]

Map 2 has been updated in the first post. This version is not dependent upon Map 1. If you do either of the two things in the next paragraph, make sure you make it dependent upon either the Map1.esm released with Map 2 or a newer version. NOT Lud's quest version.

Next paragraph:

I think Helnim still needs a Mages Guild relay, and travel services need to be extended to Map 1 (again, I think). Then this should be ready for merging.

EDIT
And BC, here's the .txt file for you for the Tour Guide dialogue:

[MMMowSkwoz]

travel services need to be extended to Map 1 (again, I think)

I suspect it would be easier to do that after merging. Less risk of losing the information when you remove the Map 1 dependency before merging.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Somewhere around (I think Gez's "things I think ought to be done in Map1/2/Data" thread), Xui posted a link to the Mages Guild relay he made, that Thrig meant to include but which never ended up getting merged, sorta thing. So yeah, it's out there somewhere.

Personally I'm not so sure about the need for any travel service extension, but people can take a look at it. Just make sure it's discussed (IRC or here, just somewhere) first.

And for the Tour Guide dialogue, someone briefly explain where I'm adding that? Is that in a Map 2 based .esp, or using the new file up top dependant on Public Release Map 1... or what?

[MMMowSkwoz]

And for the Tour Guide dialogue, someone briefly explain where I'm adding that? Is that in a Map 2 based .esp, or using the new file up top dependant on Public Release Map 1... or what?

The file in the first post of this thread. I don't think it needs to be dependent on Map 1, but I could be wrong.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Okay, here's a version with a fully functioning tour-guide. I've made it so you can retake the tour, if you so desire (he is reset when the player gets' near to the King's Tomb exit).

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

New file, sorry for the previous cock-ups. Tweak away, MowSkwoz!

[MMMowSkwoz]

Fixed that King's tomb script. However, I found 3 more world errors whilst testing Kemel-Ze:

Rzarch:
Where pillar at (429,-5322,-120) meets "in_dwe_hall_wall00_exp" - gap is visible at top

Dfzunc:
Two wall pieces either side of in_dwrv_shaft00 at (3200,-768,0) bleed into it very slightly - not sure if it's intended

Chefidz Bassin:
The three wall pieces "in_dwe_hall_wall00_exp" which make up the 'partition wall' do not have pillars at their ends, so if you look at the ornamentation at a certain angle, you can see through it.

If someone more confident with that type of thing would like to fix them, then Map 2 should be pretty much done

[Haplo]

I guess Map 2 is pretty much done then.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I suppose the one thing that remains is deciding if we're going to do anything about the Telvanni Library, and if so, what that would be.

As it stands, the place is pretty (due to practically everything that was ever done with it) underwhelming and uncool. If we intend to change anything about it, it will require a lot of change, and will need to be sufficiently un-awful as to justify all the work involved.

[Hemitheon]

The only issues I've ever had with the TL are that:

a) the library is too easily located and should be much more difficult to find

b) the exterior is so bland.


Ideas:
Couldn't it be moved to a super-secluded area with a grandiose velothi entrance built into the side of a mountain and maybe only the domes are visible from above the cliffs. I'm seeing something like the city of Petra in velothi with telvanni roots growing from the stone cliff. Make it look ancient and decrepit.

Or maybe like the city of Gondolin, the library is within a valley within the mountains which can't easily be seen unless you fly over it, with one long tunnel or cave to reach it.

Add a third dome with archival documents (like the unused Indoril archives I made for i3-614). A library doesn't just hold books, it holds every scrap of information it can get it's hands on, from personal wills to land deeds. This library should theoretically hold at least 3 times the archival information that Ebonheart holds. Ebonheart is less than 500 years old. The Telvanni Library is a minimum of 2500 years old, yet that age can be seen nowhere.

Add unique books. What the hell is the purpose of a grandiose library is you've read all the books there?

[Haplo]

It's not supposed to be grandiose, that's completely the wrong terminology. Anyway, I think we're going to hold off on the Telvanni Library for now.

[Evil Eye]

It's not supposed to be grandiose, that's completely the wrong terminology. Anyway, I think we're going to hold off on the Telvanni Library for now.

What's the history behind it anyway?

Also, even though I'm not on my computer right now, is this version different from the public release?

[MMMowSkwoz]

Also, even though I'm not on my computer right now, is this version different from the public release?

Yes, this is the most updated/fixed version. Each of our maps is constantly being updated and fixed as we progress, but these are not for modding use. Questers currently use the files from the Map2 release to make their quests.

[Hemitheon]

It's not supposed to be grandiose, that's completely the wrong terminology. Anyway, I think we're going to hold off on the Telvanni Library for now.

Fine not grandiose, but it is without dispute one of the most unique interiors in ALL of TR-Morrowind. Where else will a player find a gigantic library, a TES3 Alexandria? I'll tell you. Under two domes in the middle of BFE without any distinguishing markers.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Hem, have you actually looked at the ints? (I presume you have and that I'm missing something here) But from what I can see, in the main 'library' cell, there's 8 bookshelves all about half filled all stacked up against one wall, all with rather non-descript books like the Biography of Barenziah.

It's no great shakes really, and certainly doesn't even make the impression of the Beth Vivec library. Am I alone in this?

@Evil Eye, and anyone who I suppose cares about this topic, [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=11123]here[/url] are the original plans, by Starcrunch, for the Library. I think this is the inception of the idea.

[Evil Eye]

Hem, have you actually looked at the ints? (I presume you have and that I'm missing something here) But from what I can see, in the main 'library' cell, there's 8 bookshelves all about half filled all stacked up against one wall, all with rather non-descript books like the Biography of Barenziah.

It's no great shakes really, and certainly doesn't even make the impression of the Beth Vivec library. Am I alone in this?

No, I'd like something the size of Vivec (or Herma Mora's realm...) but I know how long that'd take (forever, while building new books will be made...).
I'd still like to see something double the size of Vivec's, though... Even if I have to build it on my own.

[Tyrion]

Could the Telvanni Library be less of a repository for physical information (books) than a place for intellectual/magical development and contemplation? Kind of like a mage's scholarly retreat for those Telvanni more interested in the pursuits of the mind than in killing off their peers.

edit:
Although... the wiki does say something about it being "the largest repository of books in all of Morrowind" but that is just the wiki.

[Haplo]

Fine not grandiose, but it is without dispute one of the most unique interiors in ALL of TR-Morrowind. Where else will a player find a gigantic library, a TES3 Alexandria? I'll tell you. Under two domes in the middle of BFE without any distinguishing markers.

I don't know where you're getting this information, but our Telvanni Library isn't going to be any "Alexandria" or hold immense amounts of knowledge or shit. It's not the Royal Archives of Knowledge or some shit like that. You know why? Because the notion that the Telvanni have the biggest library in the province is kind of, well, stupid. The Telvanni don't care about that; it's most likely the Temple who holds all the knowledge. It's just a library for the Telvanni to use (mostly for research), with some cool parts for magicka-wielding players.

If you still don't agree, how about we just pseudo-retcon it and say that it used to be the main repository of knowledge in Morrowind but that got moved to Vivec when the city was created and the Temple set up shop there. We can still make it a nice, pretty library for you.

Regardless of it probably being under construction in the sense that it's not really "open to the public", like I said I'd like to hold off on it until we are finished with other Map 2 quests.

[Hemitheon]

Then I guess I just thought it was more important than it turned out to be. Instead of a great library, it could be a place for scholarly meetings, the place where a scholar goes and discusses his research, a convention center basically. It would be the kind of place where Divyath Fyr would discuss his most recent findings on Corprus.

[Tyrion]

Regardless of the amount of books inside, the library ought to at least look unique in some way. As it is now it doesn't stand out from the regular old Velothi towers scattered across the wilderness. Is this intentional? Maybe, but I feel as though its more of a placeholder in some way. The structure there does not fit the title at all, and what its ultimate use is I don't want to argue, but there's no reason it can't be redone in a more fitting manner and quickly without too much fuss.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Just in case NPCs scared Haplo, here's Map 2 with the Mages Guild Relay merged into Helnim. A spiral staircase in Helnim Hall was extended by one level for the purposes of basement creation.

I took the liberty of LGNPCing the two guys staffing the Guild, so that they don't stick out.


When merged with Map 1, someone will need to add in travel to Firewatch. (But not Bal Oyra? Should these Relays only link to major hubs?)

[Tyrion]

Well remember Caldera got guild guide transport and it was pretty small. However Bal Oyra is served by other means of transport, so its probably not necessary in that case.

[Haplo]

Map 2 with some tweaks based on BC's file two posts up.