For map 3...

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:43 pm

What needs doing? Since map 2, at least the non-NPC and quest bits, seems well on its way, and I don't have much experience in the NPC/quest area anyhow, I was wondering what needs mucking with to get map 3 nearer to a just needing NPCs and quests release as well. It looks pretty close to having all the basic parts there--interiors, exteriors, that sort of thing. So is detailing going to start soon? DO you need more interior reviewers? Other things? I'd be glad to help move thigns along.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:47 pm

One note: Map 2 is fully NPCd. Just no quests yet.

Regarding the process, I think once all ints are settled, and attached to their exteriors, the exterior claims are sent through a 'detailing' phase (which might not take too long considering the constantly improving quality of the Maps), and then once that's done, on to the NPCers for NPCs.

Remember that some parts of Map 3, due to the mixing up of Map borders, are now already NPCd, or being NPCd, and that Map 3 now includes Necrom, meaning that that behemoth is still to go.

Kasan Moor · Post by **Kasan Moor** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:49 pm

I believe that apart from a few interiors that need to be finished and connected to exteriors the only thing left is detailing, before npc claims open up. Map 3 detailing is close from starting, but I believe we first want to release map 2 and a new version of map 1, which is going to happen between now and two weeks at most I think.

This all needs verifying by Haplo, so don't pin me down on it.

Edit: BC beat me to it.

Post by **Swiftoak** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:42 pm

Necrom is going very well. I figure the thing will be ready very soon for exterior reviewing. Almost all the interiors have been merged except two houses, and the list below, mostly temple-related stuff.

-Temple (of course)
-Tombs of the saints (still planning that out)
-Sewer system/catacombs under the city (possibly, but that needs to be discussed)

Besides that I don't want Necrom to be a bottleneck for Map 3. Exterior/interior-wise I hope to have it ready by the end of the year, which will mean it will be on-par (progress wise) with the rest of Map 3. From the looks of it, the large swathe of land surrounding Necrom won't have to be detailed at all, same with the area around Akamora.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:31 pm

Map 3 + Map 2.5 are being split up also into somewhat different releases.

-First release (name pending) is Map 2.5 + a small part of Map 3. We're still bickering about the exact division, it will definitely include Sailen Valas (previously known as Vulgate), it will possibly include Gorne, Bosmora, and/or Darnim (previously known as Darnim Watch). There is 0 to 0% chance that it will include any other city on Map 3.

-Second release (name pending) is the remainder of Map 3, except for Old Ebonheart and probably everything south of that. So Almalexia, almost exclusively.

-Old Ebonheart will be merged with Map 4. Further divisions of 4-6 are still pending.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:12 am

Sload wrote:-First release (name pending) is Map 2.5 + a small part of Map 3. We're still bickering about the exact division, it will definitely include Sailen Valas (previously known as Vulgate), it will possibly include Gorne, Bosmora, and/or Darnim (previously known as Darnim Watch). There is 0 to 0% chance that it will include any other city on Map 3.

All sounds good, but I don't quite understand this bit. If there's a possibility that Darnim will be included, then judging by the maps, you'd have to include Akamora as well.

Also, does this exclude Necrom? It seems weird for that to be added on after the rest of its part of the mainland.

EDIT: Don't worry, I understand now. That's a bit of a facepalm moment.

Anyway, mightn't it be better, and make for a more satisfying release, to release Map 3 as previously planned (with 2.5 folded in), but then with the other bits you mention cut off into Map 4. (Looking at the maps, the area about, say, west of cell 16/17?) Because it would be nice to release a truly epic Map at least once, and while the previous Map 3 was preposterously epic, it would be nice to have Almalexia and Necrom in the same release?

Anyway, I have less concerns now that I understand what you're saying properly (I've had my coffee and woken up now). As long as the next release isn't called TR_Map2.5, I'm happy.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:14 am

Another thing: What about the option of including Indoril holdings from Map 6 in with Map3, would they still be added in? An example: Kogo'Aimrah.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:31 pm

A big epic map would be much better received I feel.

That and it would probably be more satisfying. Though Almalexia could even be considered a map in itself

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:54 pm

Our Almalexia will eventually add thrice as much content as Bethesdas Mournhold expansion

.

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:22 pm

I don't ever want to release Almalexia out of spite due to the countless hours I spent linking the interiors.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:41 am

I think, Haplo, that the joy at having a whole Almalexia to run around in will more than make up for a couple hours work, however exasperated you feel at the moment.

So we're pretty much near the detailing phase then? I guess that'll put my exterior experience to work, though I'm probably going to go insane placing all sorts of rocks and flowers for however many cells. At least map 3 is largely in good shape. Some of the other places it would be near doing an exterior from scratch.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:22 am

Map 3 exteriors shouldn't need too much detailing I should think. The other maps, I'm thinking 5 and 6, are going to need a lot more work though.

Post by **Swiftoak** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:28 am

There are actually quite a few places in Map 3 that need work.

Embarassingly, one of those places involved cells that I made myself several years back.

Most of the work actually needs to be done in the northern claims, claims which were done 3-4 years ago, before we took drastic quality-control measures with our detailing.

And yes one of my first exterior claims (3-7) looks like a disaster. Caspering plants and trees, and literally 50 of the same rock in one cell, and "giant saltrice" plants? What was I thinking....

I think we should immediately take a look the wilderness and see which areas need the most work. Map 3 is a patchwork of good and bad in my opinion.

The cities and claims done within the past year or so seem to be all good though.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 3:26 am

Is Swiftoak volunteering to tell me which claims are crap because if so I'd really super appreciate it.

However Swiftoak is mighty busy with Necrom so if some other busybody could tell me what claims are obviously unacceptable I'd really appreciate it thanks.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:25 am

And there's another claim where it looks like everything was just dropped from orbit. Or more likely somebody accidentally hit the 'f' button after selecting a lot more than they intended to.

Not too helpful without knowing which cells it is I know, but I don't have the CS on this computer so maybe I can get some more specifics tomorrow evening.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:49 am

3-6, 3-7, 3-20, 3-25, and 3-44 all seem to need some work, just using the accurate map. I can't really tell with 3-4 and the claims south of 3-4 and 3-6. 3-9, 3-26, 3-35, and 3-36 all look fine, and 3-5 looks like it needs very little work, if any.

Confirmation of the above or other new information about the claims listed, as well as the claims south of 3-4 and 3-6, is highly appreciated.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:20 am

Need a busybody, eh?

Sacred Lands area
The Necrom Lighthouse 3-5 needs some real fixing up.

Retothril Coast area
This is the worst area in Map 3 by far. 3-20, 3-4, 3-27, 3-32, 3-33 and 3-43 are so full of errors and general crappiness that it would be far quicker and easier to start from scratch than to fix them and bring them up to standard.

Emerald Forest area
3-6 needs work as you said. The claim with Bosmora in it needs detailing in parts but is fairly good. 3-3 is good but 3-28 is really empty. It's not much of a forest throughout.

Boethian Mountains area
3-35 and 3-36 are great. 3-7 and 3-9 need detailing. 3-44 is a really... different claim to what is around it in Map 3.

Darnim Watch swampy area
This area is really awesome (but it might blow up a few computers). But 3-29 and 3-30 are really under-detailed.

Old Ebonheart area
Fairly good throughout. The volcanic area in 3-12 needs detailing around the edge of it.

Trandel Plains area
Needs a little detailing throughout, though 3-19 is no where near as good as the rest of the claims here and needs a lot of work.

Alt Orethan and Almalexia region
Almalexia and environs are awesome. Gah-ruhn claim and the one almost surrounded by it need detailing.

**********

Map 3 does feel a little... uninhabited though, despite the great cities here like Almalexia. There is almost nobody living in the entire northeastern quarter of the map outside of Sailen Vulgate and the little villages near Almalexia. The Trandel Plains could be greatly improved with some farms and tiny villages scattered around it.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:27 am

why not add a couple "Dren Plantation"-size estates to northeastern Map3? House Indoril does love slavery.

Also...why are there no slums/shanty downs in or near Almalexia? Did Giuliani drive them out here as well?

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:39 am

Plantations don't really fit in northeastern Map 3. You have high rugged mountains, a forest, and a coast which is obviously going to be lashed by severe winds, leaving little place for them. I reckon plantations would work in the west and the south of the map (they would fit in beautifully in the Trandel Plain), but not in the northeast IMO. I also reckon that plantations need to be carefully managed to not make the Indoril have them seemingly more of them than the Hlaalu and Dres.

What could go there are a lot of poor people living hard rural lives, and thus supplying a lot of manpower for House Indoril and the Temple. In this case, people would either become a warrior of House Indoril / an Ordinator, or they continue the working hard off the land.

Or what could go here are a lot mining settlements, though it has been done to death.

I dunno, throwing ideas out there.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:07 pm

Nomadic1 writes:

What could go there are a lot of poor people living hard rural lives, and thus supplying a lot of manpower for House Indoril and the Temple.

This would make a lot of sense. Thousands of people living in the countryside supplying manpower for the running and supplying of the city.

gro-Dhal · Post by **gro-Dhal** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:20 pm

More monasteries/religious enclaves? You can never have too many of those.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:04 pm

Mountain men!

grizzled old prospectors, fur trappers, traders, mormoms, we could do so much with that!

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:27 pm

Shepherds.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:35 pm

Map 3 has more then 600 interiors, so plz don't create a lot of new ints.

Andres Indoril · Post by **Andres Indoril** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:29 pm

400 more ints sounds good

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:36 pm

What about a stronghold? A functional fortress-like one.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:37 am

that's Bis'Andryon: a still functioning stronghold.

a bunch of homeless people living in an OM style ruin?

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:31 pm

Maybe just beyond Almalexia? I find it odd that there is nothing LC in Mournhold-Almalexia.

Post by **Haplo** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:49 pm

In the Dragonlance series, the city of Palanthas is surrounded by immense walls with murals telling the story of the history of the world. And on the outside of the walls is the 'new Palanthas', or the shanty town that turned into a permanent dwelling for the less well-off. Pretty much like having LC outside the 'hub'.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:02 pm

Depending on how you see her, I think it's likely that Almalexia would either have given sufficient charity/care for there to be no LC district in Almalexia, or she'd have chased away all the folks who blemished her image.

Either way, a shack village attachment would just look crap, and spoil the awesomeness of Almalexia.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:54 pm

At most, what could be done is some Velothi caves inside the mountains that surround Almalexia, opening on the rock faces that are away from the city so that they're not seen from the city itself.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:58 pm

Homes built into the rockface would be awesome.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:07 pm

How bout SEWER PEOPLE

EDIT: Had a zany, totally crazy idea for Almalexia. How feasible would it be to create a gigantic 2-dimensional image of Mournhold and place it in the empty space in the center of Almalexia?

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:55 pm

Not feasible at all (seeing as the Mournhold 'ints' don't line up nicely), and pretty much prohibitively bonkers.

Nice crazy plan, though.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:29 am

its been done before

and you could use the image on the map

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:57 pm

Some ideas from long inactive

Retothril Coast area
This is the worst area in Map 3 by far. 3-20, 3-4, 3-27, 3-32, 3-33 and 3-43 are so full of errors and general crappiness that it would be far quicker and easier to start from scratch than to fix them and bring them up to standard.

I agree. This area should probably resemble steppes, with sparse vegetation. It would be ideal place for solitary shacks of poor herders (since shepherds do not make sense), who in their misery are seriously devoted to the temple. (Ideal location for temple members to show mercy of the Almsivi).

Emerald Forest area
3-6 needs work as you said. The claim with Bosmora in it needs detailing in parts but is fairly good. 3-3 is good but 3-28 is really empty. It's not much of a forest throughout.

Although the area looks good in general it does not resemble forest at all except for parts of 3-3. Perhaps renaming it to valley would be a solution, but I would regret deeply that there would be no real dense forest in Vvardenfel. 3-3 was my first claim and it is not that good as some like to say. The quarry and the forest may look original, but the N, NW and W cells are crap. The huge dome should be removed and the area perhaps remade. I agree on 3-28. Perhaps a joint detailing claim could do much good here.

Boethian Mountains area
3-35 and 3-36 are great. 3-7 and 3-9 need detailing. 3-44 is a really... different claim to what is around it in Map 3.

Also agree. Could be home to many hermits. Or perhaps better- border watchtowers (lighthouses for signalization) inhabited by solitary Indoril soldiers watching for troublesome Telvanni?

Darnim Watch swampy area
This area is really awesome (but it might blow up a few computers). But 3-29 and 3-30 are really under-detailed.

I Agree. This could be good place for bandits or perhaps some unique fearsome beasts could live here. Also there could be one particularly nasty one that would roam the swamps and scare poor villagers to death. (ClichÃƒÂ©, but very entertaining one)

Old Ebonheart area
Fairly good throughout. The volcanic area in 3-12 needs detailing around the edge of it.

I agree.

Trandel Plains area
Needs a little detailing throughout, though 3-19 is no where near as good as the rest of the claims here and needs a lot of work.

I agree.

Alt Orethan and Almalexia region
Almalexia and environs are awesome. Gah-ruhn claim and the one almost surrounded by it need detailing.

Meh - I believe Gah-Ruhn is by now perhaps the most dull city in Morrowind. But that is Okay, not all cities can and must be awesome, but imagine the possibilities of terrain... you could use mournhold pieces to turn this place into town with many canals, resembling Venice.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:05 pm

Regarding your comment about Gah Ruhn, I've already turned Rouaf Duhr into a canal town, although it's small and only has one/two canals.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:27 pm

The roads from Merelag to Almalexia are dirt roads. I think Almalexia (the city) deserves better roads. I suggest replacing the texture with a brick texture.
Perhaps there could be a small tavern on some road in map 3

Chin Music · Post by **Chin Music** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:50 am

Whoa alright this is an old topic. May as well seize the opportunity.

Is Map 3 still being split so that basically everything besides Almalexia is released as a sort of "Map 2.5"? Still have a lot of crap exteriors? Necrom still very much "in-progress"? Detailing still in the planning stages?

Basically, what's changed since a month and a half ago?

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:14 am

No, Map3 is being split so that Old Ebonheart and the Thirr River will go to Map4.