Dres Concept Art

[Túrelio]

I'm thinking something like a tall Velothi tower, possibly some tiers, but probably nothing you could stand on. The richest or strategically placed ones might have sepecial platforms for the Dres Riders to land on, deliver messages or possibly as a Noble mans transportation I suppose. Wider at the bottom than at the top, and possibly some connecting structures on the bottom, with a courtyard and spiked walls.

I can try my hand at some clothing, but most of what I can think of wont work well with the games limitations. Also, at least one of the current Dres clothing concepts was mine from quite a long time ago. Anyhow, can never hurt to have to much I guess.

[greendogo]

Another thing to think about, is if we turned the Dres into tower builders, then they would have several different kinds of towers. They would of course have the towers the rich and powerful would live in, but then they'd also have guard towers for the city extremities, watch towers for their slave pits, and if we stretched the tower idea - then a tower that is large and awesome enough for the council at tear.

On a side note, we could also incorporate the idea of large towers with the cantons and move large groups of business or homes into communal or commercial towers. All things to think about.

[Chin Music]

I like the sound of that, Turelio.

The Dres colour is blue, which doesn't mean it has to be incorporated into buildings or clothing at all, but just something to think about.

[Adanorcil]

Another thing to think about, is if we turned the Dres into tower builders, then they would have several different kinds of towers. They would of course have the towers the rich and powerful would live in, but then they'd also have guard towers for the city extremities, watch towers for their slave pits, and if we stretched the tower idea - then a tower that is large and awesome enough for the council at tear.

I would not go into towers too much. The Telvanni are obviously the most vertically oriented of all the houses, living in gravity-defying mushrooms that scream: "Impossible? Watch me!"

I took a look at your art and I somewhat like it, Turelio. A few remarks:

- You may want to be careful with spikes. When they have some sort of organic reason for being there, they make sense, but superfluous use of them, especially colored gray or steely, quickly tends to invoke 'Mordor'. You did not particularly overdo it, though. Just a word of warning.


- Though this was obviously calqued off the vanilla tribunal temple, maybe you could scale the buildings along the vertical axis a little more, to give them a slightly more menacing look.

Alternatively, we could make them really low and horizontally oriented, whilst being very wide. (Perhaps even sinking into the ground a bit.) I believe it might also give a quite cold and unwelcoming mood.

[Myzel]

Just thought I would post the Dres armor art Lutemoth made, since it kinda belongs in this thread. It's looking great, and is based almost directly on a drawing in that redguard comicbook.

I want to try and make some Dres concepts myself later.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Lutemoth/equipment/Morrowind/drescolour.jpg

[gro-Dhal]

I'd like to see round stained glass windows that evoke the compound eyes of insects. Don't know if it suits Dres, bit i'd like to see that somewhere.

[Chin Music]

Yeah, I suggested compound eye domes or windows earlier.

[Melchior Dahrk]

Those temple concepts you drew Turelio are gorgeous! Certainly blows my concepts out of the water. I can't wait to see some more from you , I would like to see what your concept of regular Dres architecture is.

I too like the idea of focusing on high towers and defensive walls, there just needs to be a great foundation in the city to support such high structures in the swampy areas. But it would certainly set House Dres apart from the other Great Houses.

[blackbird]

I believe that Tear contains cantons, like vivec.

[Chin Music]

I don't think many of us have access to the in-progress files. I have no idea what Tear looks like in its current state. And cantons seem a little boring don't they? Especially if they're going to be based around the existing Velothi cantons.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Regarding Dres swampy areas: "[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/?image=g/maps/map_mw_factions.jpg&p=modding_data/maps]Behold![/url]"

As you can see, the majority of the swampy bits are in the extreme far south areas, and are very much a minority part of Dres territory. The biggest element is the Deshaan Plains.

Of course, locations of cities and regions on this map is very subject to change.

Re: cantons in Tear, that's just a one-word throwaway line in a book. We could choose to work with that, or we could not.

In its current state, Tear pretty much doesn't exist.

[Andres Indoril]

I think it would be nice if the Dres bugshell houses seen in Redguard comic could be turned into some sort of shacks. For keeping slaves in and so.

[Chin Music]

Considering that map lists Darconis and Helnim as two different places, yeah it's probably subject to change .

Which book mentions cantons in Tear?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

'Last Scabbard of Akrash', I think.

It really is very throwaway.

[Melchior Dahrk]

Well I just thought that I would let you all know I did another sketch of my concept of the Dres. This one is not so much focusing on the actual architecture but rather, I drew a small Dres settlement in a swampy area just to show a city in its enviroment. And I know that it was said above that most Dres towns are NOT in swampy areas. Well this one is...

[url=http://s489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/ericthered1090/Random%20Stuff/?action=view&current=DresSwampyCityscape.jpg]Picture[/url]

Here's what I said about it on the official forums

That little "settlement" in the upper left is a slave pen, I used the Redguard comic art style for the bug buildings in the pen.
The obelisks outside of the city walls were meant to be supports of some type. Set deep in the ground to provide something for the mud-stone-cement used by the Dres to "grab hold of" in order to provide a firm foundation for the city itself.
There is really nothing new or revolutionary in this sketch. It just shows a small Dres settlement (in my own concept style) sitting in a swampy lowlands, what else can I say?

Thrig Edit: Don't break my laptop's H-Scroll. Use proper link formatting

[Chin Music]

Nice, I like the towers.

I read through Last Scabbard of Akrash, it does indeed take place in Tear, but it doesn't mention any cantons.

[Eraser]

When the news came that Kemillith Torom, Peliah's husband-to-be, had been found outside of a canton, his head on a spike some feet away, she did not have to pretend to grieve. Her father knew she did not want to marry him.

From the story. So yes, Tear has cantons. So perhaps a velothi/canton style can be used for the urban dres, and a more bug theme can be used in rural areas as we see in the redguard comic.

Also, anyone think of making Akrash as a sword?

[Gez]

Canton + bug theme = hive.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Though like I say, one throwaway line doesn't mean we're guaranteed to do that, if we can come up with something better.

[Túrelio]

Canton's can also mean a lot more than what we see in Vivec.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_(administrative_division)[/url]
I think cantons would be fun, if they were done differently from Vivec. I am thinking more open air cantons perhaps, with Upper-class near the top and lower-class at the bottom or even sub-mainlevel.

@Adanorcil - Yea I understand what you are saying about the spikes, mostly, I plan on them being in practical places, like walls. And my idea for the Manor's is more vertical, but I was considering something lower to the ground for plantation owners and structures outside town(where they aren't competing for space or even the sky-line), of course they will have their own towers as well to keep an eye on the slaves.

@gro-Dhal - Yea, that is what I was trying to make some of the windows in those concepts look like, especially the smaller ones.

[Majra]

I like all the ideas and concepts but theres one issue. Its difficult to make a full architectural set (trust me, Ive been there done that) in fact the early dres architecture was one of my early monstrosities. It didnt work out like I had hope, mostly because the sketches I had didnt have enough detail on trim etc.

One idea that could solve lore, concept, and implementing obstacles is trying to take the dres more underground with some above ground stuff as well but not over the board difficult to create and keep under certain poly limits, nobody wants the game to pause every few seconds (see original narsis from 4 years ago).

Perhaps a new but scaled down above ground concept, but extensive underground architecture? From what I remember the Dres are agricultural vampires (my lore knowledge is based on discussions from 3 years ago, but I think this is still true). Perhaps a plantation type look above ground, but a decadent below ground, since the dres like to keep their stuff secretive anyways?

Just some ideas from an old fart.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

I like cantons, assuming they are done in a completely non-vivec way. Perhaps have the cantons as single level plazas dividing classes and districts. Don't base the architecture on some sort of indoril velothi hybrid as that would be strange and not Dres. Base the architecture on the mood that needs to be evoked, cold and unwelcoming. Dark brown or dark gray, with high ceilings, but not towers or really any tall buildings. I do not think the dres have towers as it is neither prudent nor interesting.

A thought I just had, what if the rooms had high ceilings, yet the hallways are barely tall enough to fit an altmer. (as not to be game breaking)

[Lady Nerevar]

a lot of stuff to address, so i guess ill just do everything in chronological order.

greendogo: imo, towers would be sweet. they would be set apart from the telvanni because they are architectural as opposed to organic. the sense of height is one thing i loved about the old set. it would also be real cool to see the tops of towers peaking over the forest canopy.

Chin Music: yes. domineering, austere, superior. again, a sense of scale. i think incorporating some of the daedric style curves would be a good thing, since atm the architecture set is completely different than everything else, which does not make sense from an evolutionary standpoint.

greendogo: my whole reason for velothi is practicality. i would totally love a whole new style, but im not sure if its possible. if it is, by all means.

Túrelio: love. a bit too indoril i think, but i like the spiky roof and sloped wall top things. also, Promoted for Concept Art.

Túrelio: ooh, im going into illustration. mind if i bother you about some stuff later on?

greendogo: eeew. im far from fond of those now, they are much too simplistic and not morrowind enough to really be dres. lute did some great armor concepts. for clothing i think the dres should be more geometric than the other houses (which are more organic and disheveled, irregular, loose). i see their clothing having much more structure, maybe almost military (in the sense of a uniform designed to inspire obedience). regular man dres clothing would be quite the opposite from the nobility: it would be fun to incorporate some of morrowind's original concept art. im kinda excited now, i might sketch something up tomorrow.

Túrelio: yes. i liked the subtle curves of the old set, maybe that could be used to make the towers interesting. having an optional balcony on some would be awesome, i have this awe-inspiring image in my head of standing on a dres balcony and looking out onto morrowind with MGE.

greendogo: tear is described as having cantons, so that would be a cool and lore appeasing thing to do.

Chin Music: blue is a great color to make them less inviting. i see blue lanterns for mood lighting, it would make the cities quite eery.

Adanorcil: agreed. i still like vertical towers. once again, geometry over organic.

Myzel: thanks. shows of some of those geometrical features i was talking about up in the clothing.

gro-Dhal: that could be cool. perhaps even make the domes (if any) suggestive of insect eyes?

Melchior Dahrk: i like your city set up, it makes sense. Promoted for Concept Art.

Gez: that brought up a dres city plastered against a large, bare cliff in my mind. would be cool i think.

Majra: i think underground complexes would be pretty cool. secret escape tunnels, slave pens... could make for all kinds of quests.


i think this is exactly the kind of discussion we need to be having its awesome to see so many people participating, this is exactly what TR is about!

[Eraser]

And this is exactly what I missed!

I have no idea if the vampire thing is still being done, much of the pre-existing stuff got overhauled by sload.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

Discussions still existed with sload around eraser, your ideas just had to have substance to be accepted instead of being shiny and popular.

I do not believe the vampire thing is being done. I certainly don't like the idea.

[Túrelio]

Thanks Lady N, and you are welcome to ask me any questions or whatever else you might have. I believe I have you in my contacts still on MSN, or just PM.

I have some interesting ideas for incorporating both underground and towers, and I will have a wider range of styles, some with hard straight corners and some with more subtle curves, along with again different roof ideas and such. I want to narrow it down to something before I start doing things like the city plan and a few other cool ideas I think you guys will like. Also I have been considering a few unique structures that the Dres are likely to have. Hopefully I'll have the first part of that this weekend.

Yea I remember when we were going to have the secret Dres Vampire Council, and how the puppet Council was like their equivalent to the Telvanni Mouths. I think that's what got me into Dres the first time around. I think there should still be some kind of Vampire element to the Dres, or Tear.

[Hemitheon]

The last plan was to have 1 vampire Dres councillor AT MOST and even that was questioned. The only way I could see that being feasible is if that councilor had a stand-in who would go back and forth between House Dres and him. A very mysterious whose excuse for not being public would be something along the lines of "born with a physical defect," or "cannot stand contact with outside persons due to possible infection."

[Sload]

A parting gift for a good friend.

The Dres are not vampires. Come on you guys, thats just cheesy.

I think you guys understand what I meant by "cultural landscape," but I need to be very clear. Architecture creates an image, a mood, and a feeling. Would the Hlaalu and Redoran have felt the same way if their buildings had been reversed? Hell no.

So this has to be done very carefully. No fucking around. And so its clear all that bull about looking like this or that other thing because of their historical of anthropological ties to - stop. That doesn't matter. Did the Indoril buildings in Mournhold look like anything else seen in the original game? No, but they worked. All that matters is how the buildings make the player feel.

So you're walking a fine line between inspired and cliché. It can't be something gothic and ridiculous, but I think we can agree it needs to feel pretty dark. It can't be a bad attempt at horror, but it should look pretty grim. Do you understand what I'm saying?

What matters is that the player should not feel welcome there. The Dres are the Dunmerest Dunmer, they are xenophobic and profoundly unfriendly. Their buildings need to reflect that. I don't think they should be ornate or anything like the Indoril - the Indoril were like that because it made them feel regal; with its giant castles, Almalexia feels like an old city clinging to its ancient glory. That is not the feeling you should be going for with the Dres.

Instead I'm thinking something minimalistic, like Velothi, but with a darker color pallet and higher ceilings. Obviously I'm not saying "Velothi but tall and dark," but I think that's a starting point at least.

I hope you all understand what I'm saying. This is one of the most important parts of the mod - don't fuck it up.

no pressure though

[Túrelio]

Haha, sure Sload, just relax and stay stay tuned to this thread, if you see something you like, let us know. I'll keep what you said in mind and put it in as one of the variations when I do the next few concepts.

[Chin Music]

Eh, I still support towers. (Pun not intended)

I mentioned earlier in a PM to Turelio that my personal vision of what the buildings looked like was that they were essentially monoliths. Slightly wider at the bottom than at the top, made entirely out of dark, flat stone, and cornered by large pillars in strange shapes. Decoration would then come in the form of engravings, windows, domes, railings etc, which is a good avenue for the bug motif.

Not just intimidating, but something a touch more sinister. Ominous, foreboding, even fearsome.

But that was just what I imagined personally. I'm no architect, the ideal Dres architecture is something which no doubt I could never think of, and potentially completely different.

And that was just what I thought for the exterior. In the houses of nobles the interiors would be more luxurious. Just because you're broadcasting a message of obedience with your towering monolith on the outside doesn't mean you have to live in a cave on the inside.

Blue lighting is a great idea, Lady N.

[greendogo]

Sload, you seem to know exactly what is most important in the games vanilla architecture - atmosphere and personality. I would be fine with something close to Velothi if we have such awesome concept artists. They will think of ways to make something like Velothi darker and more forbidding. I couldn't, for the life of me, picture anything like Turelio's temple concept until he drew it.

Melchior, I love your cityscape! Could you perhaps do something similar for the Deshaan Plains region? You seemed to make the swamp look pretty dark and forbidding, I'm wondering if you could capture the same feeling with a lighter happier setting (such as in the plains).

Stupid laptop recharger is broken, so I'll be online little until I get a new one

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Although this is like a totally irrelevant point, I was thinking the Dres would have harsh, pale yellow lighting, inspired by the lights cast from the windows on Túrelio's concept of the Temple.

Those kinda lights, looming out of the fog in the deep south of Morrowind would seem quite oppressive, perhaps - kinda like 'eyes watching you'. Wheras blue lights would perhaps blend in more, and feel more eerie, as you said. (Not that that's necessarily a bad thing)

Anyway, this is really a trivial point, but I thought I'd give my views.

And all of what Sload said sounded pretty much right to me. I can't wait to see the next batch of concepts.


EDIT: Oh yeah, one idea for anyone who can possibly mimic the Lute/MK Morrowind style, a nice idea for the Dres might be frescoes in the style of the existing ones from Morrowind, but representing the three Good Daedra, rather than the Tribunal or St. Veloth. Just an idea for some artsiness.

[Hemitheon]

don't forget Lute's designs for paraptons (I think that is what he called them).

[Aeven]

As for cantons, like TF suggested a large plaza, but perhaps with a tall central tower? In it there could be all sorts of things.

[Gez]

don't forget Lute's designs for paraptons (I think that is what he called them).

The name comes from Tedders, actually.

[Chin Music]

Huge plaza cantons would be interesting if kept close to ground level, but if there are any at all they should be used sparingly. Just in an attempt to avoid a Vivec 2.

And as for towers, yeah there are loads of different ways they could be incorporated beyond just representing a social heirarchy. You could have large public towers which contained entire marketplaces or groups of houses. Hell, take it one step further, put an entire city entirely within a single tower structure with the heirarchy going from the bottom of the tower to the top (though that's just wishful thinking, I doubt a tower-city would be practical or even suitable).

Still, if the idea of towers is expanded upon, I'd still like to see it as representing the social structure in the grand scheme of things. Just as a throwaway sort of contribution here, a heirarchy of height for Dres might, from top to bottom, go something like:

Councillors (the biggest tower of all would be either the Council House in Tear or the Grand Magnate's tower)
-
Wealthy Elite (Extremely wealthy nobles. Pretty much all of them got to where they are through the slave trade, whether they have simply inherited it from their already ancient and noble family, or have worked their way up through the heirarchy through business and service.)
-
Lesser Nobles (lower ranked, less wealthy or otherwise less influential members of the Dres nobility.)
-
Guards, Retainers (basically, anyone in direct employ of the Great House and its nobles. These people do not usually live in their own towers, but on the lower levels of the nobles' or in separate, smaller towers which are owned by nobles. For guards of the city watch, this includes guard towers, city walls and a barracks. As well as guards, this includes slavedrivers/overseers, agents and secretaries)
-
Public buildings/offices (Organisations sanctioned by the Dres, but not under their control. This includes the Temple and any Guilds.)
-
Wealthy merchants (richer merchants and service providers who are not members of House Dres. Fine alchemists, tailors, enchanters, etc)
-
Lesser merchants (basic merchants and service providers. Lesser blacksmiths, pawnbrokers, general traders, etc)
-
Commoners (Dres territories might actually contain very few commoners. Nearly all labour is done by slaves, so the only commoners who remain in Dres cities are ones who aspire to be one of the higher classes, and thus are usually employed as apprentices and lesser retainers.)
-
Slaves (All manual labour in Dres territories is done by slaves, except for the day-to-day tasks of those too poor to afford them (or those who do not want to use them). Personal slaves are usually kept underground, in tower basements. Slaves in slave markets are kept in pits, owned by the nobles who are selling them.)

[Melchior Dahrk]

I am planning on doing another concept of a city overview(hopefully with a dark and forboding appearance) and I was wondering if I could get a screenshot of some of the Deshaan Plains. I don't really know where to look.

I probably won't get a reply to this until I am finished but still. Maybe it'll help with my next sketch

[Obagovo]

Here's a suggestion for that unwelcome feeling. Try to have towers/tall buildings at a slant towards each other. Also, try to pack them close to convey the sense of intimidation and claustrophobia.

[Peterboy]

Huge plaza cantons would be interesting if kept close to ground level, but if there are any at all they should be used sparingly. Just in an attempt to avoid a Vivec 2.

.... snip

The tower-city would be much more a Vivec 2. The open/flat "cantons", something like the one with the High Fane would be better maybe.

What if the canton would have tall walls on its side, taller, then on the "open-top-molag-mar-canton"?
It could add a claustrophobic, unwelcoming feeling.

[Melchior Dahrk]

Well I have done a couple more simple concepts for Dres Architecture.

This is the first one I drew today. After I finished, the first thing that I thought was: That looks like Almalexia! Way too Indoril looking. But I do like the gate detail. And I also incorporated the bug-eye dome idea on the building in the background as well as Turelio's window design.

[url]http://s489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/ericthered1090/Random%20Stuff/?action=view&current=DresCityEntrance.jpg[/url]

After that I quickly sketched this Dres Checkpoint on a lined piece of paper. Just to give myself a mental image.

[url]http://s489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/ericthered1090/Random%20Stuff/?action=view&current=DresCheckpoint.jpg[/url]

I wanted to show what exactly my concept of the Dres walls was so I drew this next sketch which is a detail of a wall section.

[url]http://s489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/ericthered1090/Random%20Stuff/?action=view&current=DresWallDetail.jpg[/url]

This was sort of requested by greendogo. But my other sketches also led up to this one which shows a small Dres settlement in the Deshann Plains. I wanted the towers and walls to exude a forboding atmosphere. But I still wanted the city to at least halfway fit in with it's surroundings. I didn't use any canton-like stuff but the upper part of the town is set on a large platform...

[url]http://s489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/ericthered1090/Random%20Stuff/?action=view&current=DresCityinthePlains.jpg[/url]

Well, I am off for my lunch break now so I will see what you guys think of my sketches afterwards. Hope this stays in line with what people envision the Dres tileset to look like