Dres Concept Art

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:02 pm

The checkpoint wall and city sketch looks pretty fitting. Not ornate like almalexia, unwelcoming and we can do cantons like the city drawing instead of full sized vivec/molag mar cantons.

The towers are a little reminiscent of the old old dres design blended with velothi. I'd remove the bug wings over the dome to be less overt with the insect pattern inspiration, but thats just me.

Chin Music · Post by **Chin Music** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:15 pm

I like it.

Melchior Dahrk · Post by **Melchior Dahrk** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:16 pm

Yeah, I've been sticking the bug wings on the buildings for a while, but they are not a necessary component to the architecture, if everyone agrees that they are too outstandish. I never saw the old old dres concepts (that I know of...) but I'm glad that what I have so far is at least a good start

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:18 pm

Personally, the bug wings remind me of Altmer architecture.

Melchior Dahrk · Post by **Melchior Dahrk** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:28 pm

The Wall Detail link was incorrectly posted. I just fixed it

greendogo · Post by **greendogo** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:00 pm

I like the new concepts Melchior. I've always liked those supports or whatever they are coming off of your buildings. I think those may be one of my favorite constant motifs of your buildings.

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:44 pm

Me and some other folks think it's about time people in here get some sense talked into them.

Arguments that should not be used to justify a suggestion:

- It looks cool.
- It would look cool.
- It makes sense because of [historical, geographical, sociological fact.]
- The poster above me thinks its cool.
- Somebody drew a picture of it.

Arguments that should be used to justify a suggestion:

- It gives the impression we're looking for.
- It says something about the people who built it.

Now to get a little more to-the point: I'd like to address some things in this thread.

Melchior Dahrk, though your efforts are certainly valued, your concepts are not that great. The main problem with them, I would say, is that they show a lot, but they depict little. At this stage of design, for example, city overview concepts are hardly useful. Don't be afraid to do some close ups. Try to give your buildings some atmosphere. At this point, they hardly have to be functional buildings, if they at least get the idea across.

Insect stuff: Yeah, we know, Morrowind has bugs. They've been done to death by now, and just sticking some wings on a building isn't going to make it look unique or alien. Try harder.

Towers: Yeah, towers are fun. But it's not just because someone suddenly suggested the idea that everyone should just jump on the wagon. Think every idea through.

So all in all, my advice would be to be critical of concept art, of your own and of other people's ideas.

greendogo · Post by **greendogo** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:27 pm

*
Adanorcil - Please don't tell people their concept art "isn't that great". It's counter productive and frankly not something I want to see written about friends who are working towards a common goal. Concept artists should able to quickly sketch a handful of their ideas so that they can be reviewed and critiqued. I feel that this is what we have been doing.

The dialogue in this thread is useful, whether or not it is used to make a final decision. And the fact that people are interested in the topic is very healthy. Your comments seem aimed at limiting discussion to a conceived notion of a proper discussion. This is what will happen later in the complex process of choosing the style that will be used. Remember that Map 6 is a long way off and any concepts we have now will strengthen the base of interest for the topic.
*

Anyways, you're right about the "it's cool" comments. A more helpful review of someone's work would be "It captures this feeling well, but it needs something to convey a sense of whatever". (I'm in the middle of a computer functionality crisis, so my comments from home will be limited in their usefulness for a while).

I am however, interested if you agree with Sload, Adanorcil. Is it more important to get the feeling of the Dres down in concepts, or is it more important to discuss the location, influences, or materials that might have an effect on their architecture? Personally, I view these two approaches as separate but necessary. I think we can get a proper feel for the Dres while also using materials and styles that we think they would use/be influenced by. This question is also directed at everyone else.

Onto another topic, there are many different kinds of buildings in a set, so it might be helpful for discussion if we get a list of what buildings the Dres would have a need for.

I think they'd need houses of at least 4 to 8 styles and of about 3 different sizes (excluding the councilor's manors). They'd need a form of barracks, and at least 4 different commercial type buildings. They'd need steep stairways and shallow steps. Walls and towers (probably about 2 types each). A temple, of course, and a council chamber/hall. Of course, they'd also need slave pens, and slave hovels. Also, they's probably need other buildings and building pieces as well (like Melchior's supports that he places on the sides of buildings, or his obelisk-like supports that he places around walls, those would be an excellent way to explain structurally soundness in a swampy local). They would, of course, need several smaller pieces, such as windows of varying sizes, and doors and doorways, gates, lights, platforms. And perhaps some water control structures like in Melchior's canal concept.

I think TÃƒÂºrelio's concepts of the temple show smaller pieces (such as the door, doorway, windows, ect.) that could be used in all other Dres buildings. That is how buildings in Morrowind are built. Using smaller pieces, and putting them together to form a larger configuration. That's something to think about for future concepts.

Melchior Dahrk · Post by **Melchior Dahrk** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:03 pm

Well thanks for defending me greendogo this comment

your concepts are not that great

was not very encouraging. But I will see about maybe making some more concepts that are more "helpful"... I won't get any done until next week though.

Have nice weekend guys

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:37 pm

Ok, I have had enough of this.

First off, everyone who does not know the Dres well should get the hell out of this thread and stop pretending they do.

Greendogo, don't ignore half of adanorcil's comment. He said why it wasn't that great and offered a suggestion to make it more useful. I too agree that the concepts need a lot of improving, but at least he is trying, and will hopefully adjust his drawings in light of this post. First change I want to see: No more bug wings.

The dialogue in this thread is NOT useful at the moment as it consists mainly of uninformed people swooning over bad and unfitting ideas. What we need is architecture that fits the people who built it and gives a proper impression of those people.

Telvanni: Crazy Loner Wizards - Mushroom towers they grow themselves
Redoran: Badass honorable warriors - Giant carcasses
Hlallu: Commercial traders, imperial friendly - normal-ish, yet still distinctly dunmer buildings
Indoril: Regal uptight religious pricks - Lavish mansions and inherently rich looking architecture
Dres: Xenophobic agricultural traders/loners who love their money almost as much as their privacy - Dark and unwelcoming, High ceilings, ???

The dres are not anywhere close to the indoril. Their architecture should not look like the indoril at all. Their architecture is not gothic, emo, or at all anything in those directions. The dres themselves like their cities, they aren't going to purposefully go with something that they don't like just to freak out foreigners. It just sort of worked out that way when it captured their natural style. Another thing, the old set was complete shit and it is for the better that most of the people in this thread don't know what it looks like. It should not be mentioned in a positive light, or used as an inspiration.

Great House Dres should be the best aspect of this mod. It should be molded into something that would make Bethesda proud. I'll be damned if I let this house be turned into an gothic emo indoril clone tower fest. The people in this thread who best know best what they are talking about are Sload and Adanorcil. Don't talk down to them, they know far more about this than you do, I guarantee it.

I am watching this thread intently, don't fuck this up.

PS. Dexter is watching too, and he will NOT be happy if you fuck up the Dres.

Majra · Post by **Majra** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:02 am

Yikes,

I tried my best at modeling the old set, it was difficult to do without enough details of the smaller parts of the architecture. People need to realize the steps into making architecture (everyone wants to draw concepts of a completely finished structure that looks cool) but from a person who meshes (dont use this past particular case to judge my meshing) the steps should be

1. What type of architecture
a. Total piece (Canton or Indoril style) where it is meant
to be individual stand alone parts with very small parts
added to distinguish
b. Segmented (Castle style) where you can put it together
like a puzzle.
c. Hybrid (like the telvani) large pieces that can be
combined together due to their non-rigid form and still
look good.

Before this is decided, I don't think we should go any further as discussing the "look or feel" or whatever hippy crap wont get anyone any closer to having a new architecture set.

Also, if you do see/talk to Dexter tell him hello, I haven't talked to him since I stepped down as an Administrator.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:20 am

Wow, this discussion seems to have broken down quite fast. Thrignar Fraxix, Sload, and Adanorcil, time to relax. This "don't fuck this up" business is frankly stupid. Guess what, I don't spend all my free time doing art and concepts for every damn Mod or project out there, I have other things I could do. I am under no pressure, wanna know why? Because it is only concept art. This is the phase of trial and error, and in the end I can submit concept art all day long and no one is going to be forced to turn it into a model or approve it for TR. In fact, the majority of concept art for game development doesn't make it to the final product the way it was initially done, and many times after a concept has been fully realized, it may still be scrapped in favor of something else. So, considering I am not even getting paid or have to worry about being fired... I feel no pressure

Now, I do this because I love the idea of TR, the reason I joined in the first place, and I'd like to use my skill to bring visuals to the concepts that others here have and would find hard to describe without a picture. Notice I don't even expect it to be the same concept for everyone, I fully intend to make a variety of concepts that best represent all the different ideas brought forth here. Once they are done, then we can better discuss them, and hopefully come to a conclusion or agreement.

All you guys have to do is describe what you'd like to see, using what has already been done as examples and saying what to remove, keep, or add. There is no point getting upset over something that hasn't even been created yet.

So, my only request is you stop being asses, stop trying to control this thread, and participate as I stated if you'd like to see your idea. If it isn't about that, I'm not interested, and it certainly is not useful. I will be reading YOUR descriptions, so don't fuck up, otherwise there isn't much I can do, as I can only come up with my own concepts or those you provide.

Whatsup Dex,

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:05 am

yikes X2

- It makes sense because of [historical, geographical, sociological fact.]

Actually that is quite a good reason in that we're trying to follow established lore, and where we make new lore, have it blend in naturally to be as indistinguishable as possible from bethesda lore. In making Valenwood, one could not ignore the green pact in order to create a particular arboreal feel.

But yes, it is very much important to have the architecture have the right feel and evoke a sense of who the dres are. What I don't see is how these conflict.

Anyway take the concepts being called bad for what they are, quick sketches. I'm sure melchior would refine them into more detail given the encouragement to continue beyond a preliminary sketch.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:39 am

Eraser wrote:Actually that is quite a good reason in that we're trying to follow established lore, and where we make new lore, have it blend in naturally to be as indistinguishable as possible from bethesda lore. In making Valenwood, one could not ignore the green pact in order to create a particular arboreal feel.

Lore, shmore. If we were making Valenwood, the happy tree village would be built out of bones and dried skin, not really because A Dance in Fire is written but because the Green Pact is actually a good idea, in that it would help convey the idea that "we're not in Lothlorien anymore, Toto" and it would adequately portray the Bosmer as a bunch of psychotic freaks.

This is the same thing as the canton thing. We've got lore on the one hand; and we've got what we want to achieve on the other. If lore goes in the proper direction, we co-opt it. Otherwise, we can ignore it or even contradict it.

Then we've got to remember our medium. A game. A computer game with a world based on pre-constructed models ("tilesets"). It's something very simplified compared to what the "real" depiction of Tamriel would be. And you know what happens in simplified depictions of things: the distinctive features are exaggerated. (Just look at any cartoon.)

The Dres are austere and oppressive. Go with that. Express it in their architecture. It doesn't matter if you end up with something people wouldn't want to live in -- your people of reference are real humans, not House Dres Dunmer.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:06 am

one last thing then I'm escaping this creeping meatball

Adanorcil is the smartest man whose ever posted here, and a cognoscente of lore. Its on your own heads if you don't listen to him.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:29 am

Sload, it is on no ones head, this is not part of the process that can be screwed up. I am taking in EVERYONE's ideas and issues, including yours and Adanorcil. You guys haven't even given a proper chance for your first suggestions to be explored. This shouldn't be a arguement, all that is needed here are personal suggestions.

Now please, back off, and give me a chance to do some concepts of all you have suggested, ok?

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:28 am

Before I say anything, let me make it very clear to everyone that one of the biggest problems with this project making progress is when bad ideas gather steam. Stopping them becomes a fiasco, and it takes a mean-spirited person with authority to tell everyone to stop.
That being said, Turelio is a very good concept artist. The problem is he's doing concepts that are being suggested by people that have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Good art of bad ideas makes said bad ideas look good, and that's not what we want. There are plenty of other mod projects out there that eat bad ideas for breakfast. No names. You know who I'm talking about.
What needs to happen now is a discussion about how the Dres would want their buildings to look. You have to think like a Dres, and to think like a Dres, you have to know a hell of a lot about the Dres. Do you? If not, scoot on over to TIL, do some reading, and come back when you can get into that Dres mindset. Me personally, I know what Dres architecture should and shouldn't look like. Most concepts in this thread are way off, but some strike close to home.
The attitude that you need to sketch now so that modeling can begin ASAP should be shit-canned right now. That mindset has produced some of the worst models I've ever seen. All that "hippy shit" is what Bethesda went through in developing the architecture for Morrowind, and if we want to be up to their standards (which, let's face it, we have to be), we have to go through that same thoughtful process. It's okay. We're allowed to think. We're just not allowed to think dumb stuff like how I think I'm still relevant at all to this project.
So, in light of all that, get yourself some info on the Dres, figure out who they are and what they do, and then do what you can to imagine the features that would compose Dres architecture.

If you remember me, don't say "good to see you!". You shouldn't be happy to see me (because I'm a dick). If I'm here, it means things have the potential to get really ugly, and I'm an idiot dickhole.

Chin Music · Post by **Chin Music** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:48 am

Okay then, what would you suggest? It would be good to have a base to work off which came from a more authoritative source. I've been trying my best with the information given, is there anything specifically wrong you could give about the general direction so far?

Majra · Post by **Majra** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:10 am

At this point I am willing to help in making this Architecture but if there's no consensus I can't begin to imagine how to begin modeling, I trust you dex more than anyone who has ever been on these forums but at this point we should have the basic things figured out on these meshes because modelling them well will be a 6 month process. So no more discussing who the dres are, let's get a concept and get the tr ball going

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:04 am

Six month is a quickie. At the rate we're going currently, we'll have Map3 ready for its first beta in December 2009, Map4 in December 2010, and Map5 in December 2011.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:13 am

Ok, I've made a list of it all, and I'll be periodically checking it while I work. Hopefully I can get to everyone's ideas and much much more.

Chin Music · Post by **Chin Music** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:43 am

Gez wrote:Six month is a quickie. At the rate we're going currently, we'll have Map3 ready for its first beta in December 2009, Map4 in December 2010, and Map5 in December 2011.

Aw man, don't talk like that. I'm sad now.

Excluding stuff which isn't required for release like quests, just how far along are the other maps? Some exteriors at least seem to be made well in advance. And to a degree with every completed map the efforts get more focused.

Post by **Gnomey** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:51 pm

For the record, though this is pretty much irrelevant for this thread, the main reason why a Velothi-based design was considered is because the Dres cities are already made, and are already made in the Velothi style, no less. It would be a bit of a pity to get rid of all that work, especially after the old versions of the cities already had to be redone from the old Dres set. But don't get me wrong, I'm personally all for a new set. I just wanted to clarify that a lack of modellers, or a wish not to "waste time", etc. wasn't what made that idea seem reasonable.

(And Majra, don't take the comments on your architecture set personally. Plans change over time, and while your set was probably excellent when it was made by now the concept for House Dres has outgrown it. It's not you, it's us.

)

As to Dres vampires, AFAIK the only hint of them comes from "A Game at Dinner". In that letter it was only stated that a single vampire had a high rank in House Dres, and the book isn't a reliable source in itself. It isn't known how he got there, whether anyone who hasn't personally met him knows about his vampirism... even the other councillors (or whatever his peers/superiors are) might be ignorant of it, if he was in some way separated from them in councils (or wherever he might be expected to meet them).

I think it would be interesting to have a high-ranking vampire in one of the great houses, but only because it hasn't been done already. If he might reasonably still be alive, it might be fun to use the vampire mentioned in the book, under whatever assumed name he probably uses, (As "Dhaunayne", especially when prefixed with the words "dark liege", is just a little suspicious), but really even if you do have a high-ranking House vampire he could just as well belong to any other House.

Finally, I'll address the actual topic

: I like cantons, if only because they portray the segregation of the Dres culture well. (They can, in themselves, be a sort of cultural pyramid, which is how I'd like to see them used). I'm not talking about the square Vivec cantons, though. Personally, I'd like a variety of shapes similar to the original Vivec concept art, but tiered and connected by criss-crossing bridges at various levels, so that you can travel all around one level of the city without leaving it. That way the Dres nobles will never have to share the street with commoners, and commoners with slaves, and most people with outlanders.

As I see it, slaves would be in pits while outlanders would be on the ground level, or maybe slightly below it. Commoners might also partly occupy the ground level, but most would probably be in a level just above it. High up you'd have the "wasp" nests and important government buildings. The temple could go wherever the priests would want them to go; either among the outlanders, or among the commoners, or in the richer areas, or perhaps in some sort of religious sector. There might even be temples for each caste. Of course, the levelled idea shouldn't be overdone, as it would probably be if we had a new version of every building for each level.

In my opinion, though, most Dres cities shouldn't have cantons, just in case anyone was suggesting it. It seems as though it should be a Dres thing to me.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:28 pm

Majra wrote:...at this point we should have the basic things figured out on these meshes because modelling them well will be a 6 month process. So no more discussing who the dres are, let's get a concept and get the tr ball going

We should have the basic things figured out, but apparently we don't, so we have to figure them out. Don't rush into modeling. How long as TR Morrowind been going on? Why are we in a rush to get Dres architecture going? The original set they are talking about isn't the one you made, it's the one Munkie made waaaaaaaaay back when. But the one you made was a pretty prime example of what happens when you rush into modeling. I remember sorta talking with you a little bit one night about having Dres architecture incorporating elements of the bug hives. The next morning I wake up, and you have several house models done that looked like Indoril homes that had been infected Zerg-style, and I'm thinking to myself "aw hell, how do I let him down easy".
Okay, to save people the trouble of going to TIL to learn about the Dres, I'll spell out most of what I know about them here. The Dres are the most old-school of the Dunmer Houses. They are xenophobic shut-ins that despise everyone but themselves. They have refined racism and class-based oppression to an art form. Their society is hardcore class-based, to the point where ascending to a higher class is impossible. They are traditionalists in the most strict sense. Most of them don't even worship the Tribunal. They are ancestor worshipers, practicing the Dunmer religion from back in the day before the Tribunal became demi-gods. Their economy is highly dependent upon the slave trade, and they are the undisputed masters of it. Dres raiding parties regularly venture into Argonia to bring fresh slaves back to the House Dres plantations. The bit about a vampire holding a spot in the Dres hierarchy is Imperial propaganda. Although the Dres are mostly shut-ins who don't like each other, they would most likely view vampires as being an affront to their worship of ancestor spirits.
That's it in a nutshell.
Knowing this, how would you interpret a Dres city? Well, for starters, it shouldn't look friendly. It should be somber and frightening, with easily-distinguishable differences between the areas where the various classes live. No gradual change from rich to poor. The upper-class nobles would be as far as possible away from the laborers and tradesmen, in large manors, probably up on a hill somewhere, while the shacks and tents of the poor laid down in the mud. There would be a slave-trade post in almost every city or settlement, in the merchant's quarter. This is the cornerstone of their economy. They view slaves as a commodity, not as people, so the living conditions of the slaves should reflect that. It's not really possible to do with the Morrowind engine, but I always pictured Argonian slaves bound at the wrists and ankles, with a leash around their neck tied to a stake in the middle of a field of mud.
So, now that you have a feel for how a city would be laid out, and what it would feel like to visit that city, think about what the buildings would look like. The Dres are rigid, unwelcoming, traditional and introverted. Their buildings must reflect this. They wouldn't waste their time building giant ornate towers or anything like that. They don't want to impress visitors, they want to enslave the visitors.

milne · Post by **milne** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:40 pm

So ther real life equivelants would have been the pre-civil war Deep-South America???

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:42 pm

No. They have no real-life equivalents.

Chin Music · Post by **Chin Music** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:50 pm

All this I know. I wasn't thinking of having ornate towers or anything. I was thinking rigid, dark stone monoliths. Square bases, look like they have been carved out of a single piece of stone. Not impressive or fanciful, imposing. When a slave, or anyone really, looks up at them from their pit or dwelling, they know who their masters are.

Just as an aside, I was thinking that like Port Telvannis requires hospitality papers, I imagine that as an outlander you would require permission to even enter Tear.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:51 pm

Concepts are coming, I think I have a few neat ideas and that there will be at least something for everyone to agree on and use as a bases. Concept art is the tool to use for exploring these ideas, and I don't mind if most or none of my concepts become anything more in the game, I really don't care about that. Later today I should be able to post quite a few.

Majra · Post by **Majra** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:49 pm

Dex: I understand, and I definitely agree, no need to rush to modeling. I will discontinue those type of discussions in this thread as it is for concept art (and my points are for after a general concept is developed)

For my two cents I still think a simple above ground architecture makes sense for the dres. Something that melds into the landscape around it above ground, but then again I dunno, I just mesh. Someone wake me when we got a consensus on a look. I think the unwelcoming look wont come from drastically making the architecture look a certain way it will come from putting the buildings close to each other, being confining, having dark alleyways, and have creepy looking lights hanging or creepy tapestries outside. Something like outta Deliverance or something ha.

*grabs some khajit reading materials and some healing potions* Daddy is hungover like crazy.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:49 pm

Chin Music wrote:Just as an aside, I was thinking that like Port Telvannis requires hospitality papers, I imagine that as an outlander you would require permission to even enter Tear.

If so, they'd have a trade quarter where outlanders are allowed. House Dres is a merchant house.

Chin Music · Post by **Chin Music** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:22 pm

Gez wrote:
Chin Music wrote:Just as an aside, I was thinking that like Port Telvannis requires hospitality papers, I imagine that as an outlander you would require permission to even enter Tear.
If so, they'd have a trade quarter where outlanders are allowed. House Dres is a merchant house.

I thought of it more as a tax for entry. A one-time payment which gives you access to the main city which would include the basic shops, marketplaces, organisations and maybe some common houses. Outlanders may be allowed in, but they might at least want to keep the poorest, scummiest ones out. You can walk around Port Telvannis without hospitality papers, but this is more like an entry fee.

The actual Dres residences, including certain shops, might be totally walled off from the rest of the city and much, much harder to get into (legally). I can't imagine them wanting an outlander anywhere near their houses for any ordinary reason.

I could see Tear as being split into four areas, each totally walled off from each other, and with increasingly high entrance requirements.
First would be the trade district, with basic services such as shops, markets and inns. Entry would only require a small tax. The slave markets would be a subset of this area.
Next would be the common district, which would have larger organisations and services, such as the Temple and the Morag Tong, as well as common housing. Entry may require an additional tax.
Then the business district, where the Dres would handle all of their affairs. May contain things like the council house, vaults, records, specialty shops for the nobles, and perhaps lodging for VIPs (major clients, etc). Entry would require you to have business with the Dres, or at least be a potential major client (huge entry tax? High rank in another House?). Nobles would rarely venture beyond this district.
Finally the manor or noble district, which would contain all the estates of the local nobility. Entry would basically mean either being a Dres noble or knowing a Dres noble, neither of which are likely.

But this is just me running my mouth off.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:59 pm

i think there is no harm in ideas.

maj, if you want stuff to model, theres plenty i can hook you up with for hammerfell.

anyways, some quick thumbnail sketches. dont think its quite what you are looking for, but i dont really think that *you* know what you are looking for. thats what this thread is for, figuring out what we want in dres (besides "imposing," which comes in many flavors).
[size=0]
too similar to the old set, probably not intimidating enough. i do like the idea of having some kind of amber like material.
URL=http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5486/dresarch1zn0.jpg][imghttp://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5486/dresarch1zn0.th.jpg[/img[/URL

too cutesy, definitely not intimidating enough.
URL=http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9973/dresarch2te3.jpg][imghttp://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9973/dresarch2te3.th.jpg[/img[/URL
[/size]
not quite dunmer enough imo.
[url=http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4200/drescloth1em8.jpg][img]http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4200/drescloth1em8.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:09 pm

Lady Nerevar wrote:too similar to the old set, probably not intimidating enough. i do like the idea of having some kind of amber like material.
[url=http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5486/dresarch1zn0.jpg][img]http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5486/dresarch1zn0.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Frosted cupcakes! Yummy!

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:30 pm

since House Dres does alot of interprovincial trade, perhaps the docks could be the focus area for goods and services. Maybe even make the port area deceptively friendly. The actual city however would come off as quite callous and rigid. What keeps popping into my head are certain concentration camps which had a friendly exterior but the interior was where all the ugliness happened. So if traders come to Tear, perhaps they are greeted with a warm facade without ever knowing that the actual interior of the city is ruled with an iron first that relishes in the miseries of slavery. Since House Dres' color is white, that should be present somewhere. Maybe the buildings are dark gray with white trims, but the trim isn't Necrom white but a dulled, dirty white. White is the color of purity yet House Dres is far from pure. They are the most racist and the most socially tiered.

Perhaps entry taxes could be circumnavigated by social status. High ranking officials from houses on friendly terms with House Dres could gain entry without cost. So an Indoril Grand Ascendant wouldn't have to pay anything. House Hlaalu Archmagisters would probably be shunned in any Dres settlement simply because of his or her connection to the Imperialized House. Thus, the tax would be higher for a Hlaalu than for an Indoril.

Another crazy idea: if an outlander wears Dres bonemold in view of Dres guards, it is either confiscated or the person is sent to jail simply for breaking centuries old traditions. Dres armor for members of House Dres only. Basically, it would mimick vanilla Indoril armor.

The color palette will need to chosen VERY carefully. I liked the old set but it looked to spacey, sci-fi simply because the colors didn't match with the feel in Morrowind.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:16 pm

Hemitheon wrote:Since House Dres' color is white

Actually, that's Indoril. TR's Dres is blue. Only a minor point.

Anyway, I think we need not to go overboard with the 'they lock everyone out of their cities and you have to pay to get in' thing. That will get boring and irritating quick, and will make them seem like the House of snarky bureaucrats. Not quite the feel we're going for, I think.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:23 pm

I think that the part about them havign a welcomign area for outsiders near the docks seems on the right track. Nice friendly and tastefully decorated inns and shops surrounded by big "friendly" walls that keep people from seeing the poorer classes and keep people out of the upper class areas.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:14 pm

I don't think the Dres would try to hide the true nature of their culture. They'd probably revel in it. Well, the nobles would anyways. The impoverished wouldn't have much of a say in the matter.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:20 pm

Gez wrote:
Lady Nerevar wrote:too similar to the old set, probably not intimidating enough. i do like the idea of having some kind of amber like material.
[url=http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5486/dresarch1zn0.jpg][img]http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5486/dresarch1zn0.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Frosted cupcakes! Yummy!

thanks, now i feel like baking

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:29 pm

My question the specialists of Dres lore is:
The velothi buildings, old dunmer stronghold and even the indoril buildings have a common shape: a kind of knotted pyramid. See pic

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:55 am

Actually according to TIL their color is grey. Also reading on TIL regarding vampires, it is supposed to be rumor that their council is composed of vampires. So when we get to the point of dialogue, it should go in there somewhere instead of actual characters being vampires.