Dres Concept Art

[Túrelio]

Ok, I got some new stuff, however I wasn't able to get to everything today. I have several other sketches still waiting to be worked on, and I want to add more variety to even these concepts.

Manors/middle-class houses, with a more minimalist look for the most part, and I just experimented on different sides and levels, not really a lot of variety here yet.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/3639/dreshousinglineup1copypi7.jpg[/img][/url]

Took some of the example styles from the previous and flushed them out a bit as potential Guard towers. One has very hard edges and the other softer rounded edges.

[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/5272/twodrestowers1copyhw4.jpg[/img][/url]

Took a couple of the canton sketches I had. The first two are pretty much just spin-offs of Vivec, just seeing where I might be able to take them.

The third is a concept I had where the canton/city is almost reversed out, so instead the lowest part in is the center, possibly even going under the ground level outside the city, although not in this drawing. I thought it might be a neat look, to enter the cities trade district, and be surrounded by the city on all sides and upwards. Incorporated the idea of towers here. Obviously, the higher classes live closer to the top, but middle-class citizens can attempt to build their towers to the upper-class level. Of course its all pretty round, the houses are more place holders for what will actually be used.

Finally, the fourth is really rough still. It's almost a ziggerat/towerish canton/city, with a single ramp-street that wraps around the city, upper-class obviously living at the top, and lower classes living near the bottom and inside the structure itself. My idea for this was to have a waterworks system similar to Vivec, but instead of having now apparent power source for pumping the water(or magic if it was), the cities water is pumped entirely by slave labor, deep down inside the very bottom of the structure, in a pit that water drains into. These are either unsold slaves or slaves own by the canton's citizens that want water supplied to them, as a sort of "tax".


[url=http://imageshack.us][img]http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/7979/drescantonlineup1copyav7.jpg[/img][/url]

Of course some of these I did on a grandeur scale than would be ideal in the game, but the concepts should still work on smaller scales. I think that the best way to make progress here, is for everyone to discuss specifically what you like/dislike, and use these examples to help explain what you envision/want. Sometimes I only put particular features on one thing and not another, but please tell me if you think a feature should be added, removed or combined with something already existing. That's why I added the numbers, to help everyone to know what is being talked about.

I need some more idea's for Adanorcil's "sunken" concept. I'm going to still work on some clothing/armor concepts, smaller structural pieces(like windows), Akrash, and just generally getting more variety here. Hope everyone finds something useful here.

[MMMowSkwoz]

I'm no expert on the Dres, but some of these I think really capture that oppressive feel. Watchtower no.2 and canton no.4 in particular really give the feeling that the people who live there would be miserable and downtrodden (apart from the isolated upper class in the higher areas). I think a kind of pale grey texture that looks faintly run down would be appropriate. Maybe something like [url=http://www.dharmshala.org/photogallery/images/pix6_JPG_jpg.jpg]this[/url] but a bit darker?

[Chin Music]

Turelio is my new god.

Edit: A shame to disturb the drama of my post, but I'd just like to say that I prefer the windows shown on the guard tower and cantons to the "hooded" ones, cut into the building itself rather than something that's fitted. But like you said, all a work in progress. I honestly couldn't be happier with these.

[Majra]

Holy crap, now thats the kinda concepts that someone can create a model out of. That is really great stuff Turelio. You are very talented at creating architectural concepts. I can't wait till the look is agreed on to start working with you.

As far as what I like about the concept. I love the inverted pyramid feel of your 3rd canton option. How the market area is open air but confined and surrounded. I love the other cantons too, because they are similar but distinctly different from the original game Cantons.

I can't wait to see more.

Alright, I'll allow the lore people to tear it apart now haha

I know exactly which items I want some zoom ups on once the concept is agreed to

[Túrelio]

Thanks, but I think it will still be a bit before anything is finalized, but I am keeping modular design in mind. Also, I'll attempt to help you with textures when we reach that point.

[Eraser]

I love the third design! It reminds me of the old dunmeri fortresses (perhaps a colorscheme of those forts might be suitable for dres?)

How do you think putting the doorway on the second floor and having stairs up to some sort of patio would look for middle class structures?

[Sload]

Thoughts

-I love it.

-I love it.

-I think it would be more dominating if the slanted walls like at the corners of the middle class building and cantons 1 and 2 were steeper.

-The individual buildings seem fairly easy to make modular.

-I love it.

[Gez]

I like manor styles 1, 2, 5 and 7. Especially 2. It shows well how you can keep the same footprint as Velothi and yet make it feel truly different. Hard edges, angles reinforced by jutting pillars, and a broad, slanted "crown" over the buildings to make it more oppressive.

[Peterboy]

The manors are great! Cold and pure... Canton No 3 is sexy as hell...

You're awesome!

[Chin Music]

Anyway, like I said, I like the more slitted, carved windows than the "hooded" ones. The inverted triangles on the guard tower in particular.

I like the tall circular doors a lot, somewhat reminiscent of daedric, only more refined. The "entrances" or "hoods" to those doors I think could stand to match up a bit better with the buildings, in being more squarish, but that's just an idea and they do look good as they are.

I love the lanterns and banners on the guard tower.

The pillars look great in all their iterations. And I like how the tiers of the building give off the impression of high ceilings.

I think it would be good to see some square-shaped buildings. As for different kinds of buildings, I would love to see some lower and upper class buildings, as well as shops and city walls. There seem to be some of these basic shapes in the canton concepts.

As far as general shape of the buildings goes though? Totally nailed it. And the small "city plans" in the cantons are also very well thought-out.

[Túrelio]

Eraser and Sload, I'll get to work on your suggestions as soon as I can, glad you guys have all found something to like. Yes, I especially did the manors in a way that would make them very modular, but the canton concepts I was more just exploring the ideas. If we decide to use cantons, I will do more detailed concepts of it and explore different ways to make it modular as well. Obviously the biggest part of that would be what the houses themselves look like.

Got it Chin. The only issue with the slit windows is that they would have to be part of the building model itself rather than added later, which might limit its modular-ness, if that is even a word. Alternatively, we could make them very close fitting separate models with a small trim, which could then also be used for other structures.

I didn't focus much on the lower-class as we are still trying to nail down a specific style in general, but I have some ideas/sketches. That especially goes for other structures, as it would be easier to have a specific style before doing lots of concepts of different types of buildings. Of course in Morrowind most buildings use the housing models. Then there are Watchtowers, Council Hall, and in the case of Indoril, they have a specific Inn. Dres of course could have several others, such as a "hive" as mentioned, maybe their own unique Temples/shrines other than those in their homes, more plantation like structures, and perhaps some port structures.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

All the art is brilliant (though the guard towers a little too 'castle-y'?), though I have a few in-game points about the canton designs. In particular, 1 + 2 I don't think will look very imposing when approached from the ground level. They'll just look like a big 'block' rising into the sky, and you'll miss out on all the glorious detail. While a brilliant concept, I can't imagine it working too good from an in-game perspective? Perhaps others disagree with me?

Number 3 is my personal favourite - while it will have that 'blocky' look for a short time, once you get inside, it's all very opressive, looking down on you, yet still fun to look at (for the player). Also, from a really practical perspective, Number 3 looks like you could more easily place it in an exterior, perhaps even sinking half of it into a mountain or something, wheras the others would all need a lot of wide open space.

Same with number 4, with the spiral road - though perhaps not quite as fun. But still good. My only in-game concern there is 'will the waterworks be underwhelming seeing as they won't actually be working?'


(On the window thing, I personally prefer the 'inverted triangles with bug eye effect' from Number 3 or 4 of the Temple concepts)

(Oh, and Eraser on the last page: that bit of stuff at TIL is essentially fan-fic. I'm pretty sure TR's reached the consensus of blue as Dres' colour. (Seeing as Indoril is white and all) And we might not even dignify the Dres vamps thing with rumors. Or we might give them to some absolute loon character, if we have to)

[Chin Music]

In any case, I'm not a fan of the hoods on the windows. I understand the problem of windows needing to be separate pieces from the building though. I do like the carved ones, but if it's not possible then no damage, I'll like others .

And we might not even dignify the Dres vamps thing with rumors. Or we might give them to some absolute loon character, if we have to)

The TR version of M'aiq the Liar?

[Túrelio]

Well ideally cantons 1 & 2 can be sunk into the ground a bit, perhaps all the way. I was also thinking that surrounding the canton would maybe be a few other structures or even more of the city with the canton in the middle. Some of that might be what is needed to add a better sense of oppression.

My idea for canton three was to actually have it going much steeper and deeper into the ground. The only issue I see with that is that means it must be made certain that it is placed well above the water level, so it could appear to be on a hill, unless you wanted the water to be at the center of the canton. Alternatively, it has better potential to be turned into an Interior/exterior like Mournhold.

Would it not be possible to make an animate of slaves working in the water works? The wheel was the most obvious way to represent it, but there could be many other types of machinery/devices that could be used, as long as it is being powered by slaves(npcs or part of the animation). Either that, or I suppose there could be ambient sounds of the workers and machine, getting louder as you get deeper, but you aren't allowed to enter the slave pit. Another possibility is that you can enter it only in a quest, as there is a slave revolt taking place, no one is using it and the city is not getting water.

[MMMowSkwoz]

The TR version of M'aiq the Liar?

Please God no.

Would it not be possible to make an animate of slaves working in the water works? The wheel was the most obvious way to represent it, but there could be many other types of machinery/devices that could be used, as long as it is being powered by slaves(npcs or part of the animation).

It's doable. You could just have the wheel rotating and the slaves walking in a circle using AITravel. How big did you want it? More than a few slaves and it would be a real FPS killer.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Alternatively, it has better potential to be turned into an Interior/exterior like Mournhold.

Mournhold itself is enough of an issue. We don't need more int/ex conundrums.

Would it not be possible to make an animate of slaves working in the water works?

Unfortunately not. Animations are one of the thing Morrowind really doesn't have cracked, and if you've downloaded any 'exciting tavern' mod, you'll probably have seen the monstrosities that are people turned into objects with animations attached (via the bards frequently used).

Your other ideas are more plausible, certainly. And the quest would be quite fun.


EDIT: Heh, and in with the Skwoz with his scripting skills. I have to say, I still think that would look less than impressive. It would seem like a bit of a cakewalk of a job, really.

And re: TR's Maiq, he's already in Map 1, pretty much. Some bonkers hermit in a cave, with opinions on everything. (Astius Claenia)

[Chin Music]

I honestly can't imagine a slave revolt occuring inside a Dres city.

[Túrelio]

Yea I just threw it out there, perhaps more likely is a disease of some sort killing off the beastfolk or weakening till they couldn't work anymore. Sounds like a plausible quest too, as the Dres would probably be concerned about it infecting the rest of their property or even being passed to themselves.

Also, if we can't make fully detailed animated objects for the slaves work int here, what about less defined workers, that could be seen from a distance, like a gated window/door? Less an FPS issue, might not even have to be fully animated, as long as it appears they are doing their job from a distance.

One other option that might be easier to animate would be the have the "hamster" wheel, like they used in Medieval times to do construction, and simply have an NPC running in place inside of it.

[MMMowSkwoz]

I still think that would look less than impressive. It would seem like a bit of a cakewalk of a job, really.

Yeah, you're probably right. I have no idea how to do proper animations though.

You might be able to create some sort of 'working' impression through scripted movement.

[Aeven]

Your new concepts are pure LOVE

I love Manor #4, I prefer the rounded arches as they remind me a lot less of Indoril, and that shape is also more unique than the others. I can see a lot of cool variations on that. I can also imagine Manor #2, wit the what seems to be open section some sort of open-air, roofed terrace. It'd also have the practical function of arrowslits, but I imagine rooftop terraces there, like the Hlaalu ones, but grander.

I'd recommend the individual homes to be separate and placeable in Canton #3. I'm imagining Canton #4 is a view of it cut in half, to show what you mean, rather than the actual look. Canton #3 is by far the most interesting canton design, and vaguely resembles the original concept art of Vivec city, which would have been a lot nicer than in-game Vivec city.

Would such a canton be able to be an entire city in some cases, like Molag Mar on Vvardenfell? And perhaps for Tear, they could be interconnected by bridges.

I'm interested in what your choice of materials would be, and the colours. I'm assuming it's some sort of hard rock, either baked mud or volcanic, though it may be plastered. In the Deshaan District I don't believe there are a lot of natural rock quarries, so it may be collected from the Almalexia District.

[blackbird]

I like those houses and they look dunmer to me.
The guard towers looks a bit like the daedric towers in oblivion.

[Majra]

This is really good productive conversation guys. When you have a chance can you give us some examples of how the windows will look on the non-canton styles. Give a few different shapes

*GRABS WHIP* Go my dres slave go!!! haha jk, whenever you get a chance after other peoples requests.

[Hemitheon]

Gorgeous. My only problem is with #2. If it rains, the rain will go straight through the building. Was that area intended to be a balcony level? or is just opened without access.

[Lady Nerevar]

im with sload, those are real awesome. the only thing that strikes me as odd are the outward sloping roofs on some of them (eg. the guard towers). it just doesnt click in my mind

[Gnomey]

I see that the direction of the discussion has changed a bit since yesterday. I might as well throw in my two cents:

Gorgeous. My only problem is with #2. If it rains, the rain will go straight through the building. Was that area intended to be a balcony level? or is just opened without access.

In 2, the interior isn't connected to the exterior by those windows, as far as I can see. They seem to be part of a balcony. While the idea sounds strange, I like the stacked-balcony look.

Edit: Nevermind. I misread you post. But personally I don't think it really matters. And while I'm at it, I agree that the lower walls should be less slanted. The parapet on top of the building is fine as it is.

Seriously, I liked most of the manor designs, but I think I liked 2 and 4 the most. I'd actually like to see the two mixed, though then they wouldn't be middle class, probably. I also generally preferred the second watch tower. The doorway looked more unique (less like the Indoril tileset) and the sharp corners looked more formidable.

Moving on to the cantons, I liked the cantons in this order, from best down: 3, 4, 1, 2.

What I like about 3 is that the outside is almost completely bare and unwelcoming, and the poorest section is squeezed together while the roomy top level surrounds and overlooks it. It is pretty much the ideal Dres design, IMO. Harsh, segregated and xenophobic. You could try to make travel in the upper class area be more convenient, though. Bridges might work.

4 wasn't quite as unwelcoming as 3, but it captured most of the feeling. The long stairway would probably be a pain for players to walk up, though. 1 has some interesting features, but it looks too open and welcoming to me, while 2 is sectioned nicely, to allow easy sinkage if mini-cantons are desired, but doesn't really embody House Dres, IMO.

For Tear, I'd like to see how a lot of #3 cantons connected by bridges, rising out of a swamp and surrounded by groups of stilt-shacks, would look like.

[Gez]

Gorgeous. My only problem is with #2. If it rains, the rain will go straight through the building. Was that area intended to be a balcony level? or is just opened without access.

I don't care. A balcony like that is awesome; and you have this rain problem in Vivec's cantons as well (in the covered ramps). People already know the engine is kinda limited in this respect, they won't hold it against the mod.

im with sload, those are real awesome. the only thing that strikes me as odd are the outward sloping roofs on some of them (eg. the guard towers). it just doesnt click in my mind

Well, that's one thing I like, on the contrary. Having the roof jutting out of the walls both sets it apart from Velothi style and contributes to making them more oppressive.

I'd have the walls, below roof level, less slanted inwardly, though; to be even less Velothi-like.

[Eraser]

See!? the right concept gets developed and everyone who was bickering before loves it! Still yet to see Dex weigh in, but nobody has not liked it so far.

[MMMowSkwoz]

These sketches are a real improvement, but I think mainly because Túrelio knew what kind of feeling the project needed when he drew them. The earlier complaints were mainly about unguided concepts that didn't fit.

However, it seems to have scared Melchior off, which is a real shame. Enthusiasm for the project is always good to have.

[daedren]

Concerning the manors, I really like the 7th, 4th and 8th. Especially the 7th, coz the balconny at top gives a superior impression (thus giving idea of kinda power, fitting the Dres conduct).

As for the cantons, I'd be up with 3. It's my favourite, because it's really innovative when compared with cantons we are used to see (I.E. Vivec) and it really trasmits the sense of xenophobic and controlling behaviour from the Dres lords. I'd really like to see some more sketches from other angles and using other variations of the 3rd canton, Turelio (that is, if you have the time for that ).

I liked the feeling of those towers, too. I think it matches the feeling we are trying to achieve.

Congratulations, Turelio! Although I had not posted in this thread til now, I've been following it, and it's undeniable that you have great skills in concept art. I'm glad we can have you to help our project!

Hope to see more from you soon...

PS: I think that now we're getting to serious developing on this subject. This concepts were really a big progress, and with a few more I'm quite sure we'll be able to get to a concensus and start polishing the Dres set. Yayy!

[Túrelio]

I am getting everything down, but yea it's still probably going to be a bit before I get to them, hopefully next weekend. I see there isn't total agreement on anything in particular, but at least there is something here for everyone.

For the roofed terrace, some kind of cloth roofing perhaps would be ideal, something that might allow the rain in, but keep the Dres elite from looking down into your terrace, so it is more about privacy than roofing perhaps.

Also I will do some more detailed closeups of the windows and doors I have done so far, and add some more options to that. Since canton #3 seems to be most popular, I will see if I cannot make some more game friendly versions of it, and maybe populated it with some structures that look more like my manor houses. The idea was to have it mostly all just a platforms with all the structures placed on top of it. Also, it probably needs a gate and watchtowers on the outside, and I will do some of it connected to additional cantons. I imaged Tear as perhaps being made up of three or so.

I am sure Dex has seen it, so it is probably better he hasn't said anything yet. These are also mainly city structures, so there could be a fairly different look for rural plantation homes, like a almost sunken into the ground concept mentioned before.

[Greybeard]

Two more bits: Thanks for the very precise concept art, Turelio. You've presented a very fine base on which to build. I'm especially impressed with canton #3, and see some good variations with #4.

You might be able to enhance the oppressive feel by squaring up the inside of the towers/buildings within the canton, or even pulling them inwards more than 90 degrees. (Think of how teeth are curved inward or consider a grasping hand.) Perhaps the lowest class "people" would live in the bottom layer, beneath the main walkway. The slaves could either be housed in the walls or underground.

As an alternative, the slaves could be kept in a mud-brick compound outside the walls (wouldn't want 'em too near the "real" people) and the lowest class people could have a separate compound in the walls or somewhere else out of sight.

I also like the slave-driven under-canton water system. I'm thinking about something similar to what the Romans did with the slaves from their conquests to make life more pleasant for themselves. With a bit of shouting, screaming, steam, etc., there wouldn't be any need to make "fake" slave laborers. Just a pit with no way in (ie, non-working prison doors around a viewer's gallery.)

(edited to fix my poor grammar)

Later - Grey

[Túrelio]

So, just to clarify, you are saying that you would like to see structures that get wider as they get taller, correct?

[Greybeard]

Right, Turelio. If you look at the second tower on the right in canton 3, you've already hinted at what I'm thinking about - maybe a bit taller and pulled to the center of the canton even more at the top. It would line up aestheticly with manor #2, giving the "lord of the manor" or the most important of the canton a place to look down on the rest without having to associate with them.

(It'd also give Majra some modding challenges, which I think he needs )

[Túrelio]

Ok, I got some ideas for how that might look already, I'll try an fit them in with the next time I post concepts here.

[Adanorcil]

Manors:

1: I like.
2: I like a lot.
3: I like. (Possibly a modular extension of 1?)
4: Looks a little like taking the idea too far. With a few different proportions it might work.
5: The curviness of this one goes a little too much in the deliberate scariness direction, if you ask me.
6: Ditto 5.
7-8: I like the extruded corners.
9: This one looks kind of good - plain and simple. Perhaps it may get a little boring when repeated, though.

Towers: I'm not too fond of the triangular windows. The jutting roof strikes me as a little weird, but I think that is mostly due to the scale contrast with the guard on top (who, I assume, should be a little smaller.)

Cantons:
1: Pretty nifty.
2: Damn nifty.
3: Nifty; might work as a slave pit?
4: I get the idea, but I can't really judge from the picture too well if it'll work or not. Might only work on a big scale.


So, I was messing around and I came up with this rather crazy-ass idea. What if we combined canton 2 and 3? That is, the exterior shape of 2, but the interior being hollow, with the shape of canton 3?

[url=http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Vahiku/TamrielRebuilt/drescanton.jpg]I made a quick cross section to illustrate the idea.[/url]

Basically, the image I have in my mind is of the player being in the blue area and thinking "Crap, let me out of here."

EDIT: Look three posts down as well.

Any thoughts?

[Gez]

For the tiered canton like 3, I think inward-sloping walls for the tiers would be very great. Gives more space on the upper tiers, leaves the lower tiers more in the shadow.
Since I'm not a concept artist, just a cross section:
[img]http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9910/dresmx3.png[/img]
Adanorcil's idea is very awesome as well.

[Túrelio]

Ooh yea, I like that idea. I will certainly attempt to illustrate this next time I get. The only aspect I miss from canton 3 is that the upper-class isn't directly looking down/lording over the rest of the them, it looks more like they just buried them. Not bad, that could work to, although I have some ideas to help maybe keep that aspect as well.

It is very similar to one of my sketches for the 3rd canton, where I had very steep ways for the houses to be on. So almost like this, but with an open top and the rich still on the outside upper most walls. Not unlike Gez's crosssection. I'll check out all these ideas.

[Adanorcil]

For the tiered canton like 3, I think inward-sloping walls for the tiers would be very great. Gives more space on the upper tiers, leaves the lower tiers more in the shadow.
Since I'm not a concept artist, just a cross section:
[img]http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9910/dresmx3.png[/img]
Adanorcil's idea is very awesome as well.

Good point. Support the overhang with arches too, perhaps.


Combine this with my cross section in the post above?

[Túrelio]

Was planning to. canton 3 as smaller and more compact makes a lot of sense and then we can more easily add bridges to crisscrossing the space as well, and add additional cantons nearby without the entire city taking up unreasonable amounts of room.

[Gez]

Combine this with my cross section in the post above?

[img]http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7114/drescy4.png[/img]