Quest plan for map2 (The Sacred East)

[Hemitheon]

Which Daedric cult will be present on Map2? I'm guessing Boethiah's cult what with the rest of the Boethian Mountains and Lake Boethia.

[Chin Music]

TR's version of the EEC actually has the 10th rank of "Director". But that's not entirely necessary.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

MowSkwoz, I wish you could plan every quest. I love you.

That aside, I think all these quests are very good. Re: Telvanni eggmine, that's blocked off because it's fallen into disrepair, the queen's died, etc. Repairing it will form part of Telvanni quests, was the intention. It might have been explicitly mentioned in 'Darconis Gambit'?

So we could have a 'conflict line' (expose with EEC/cover up with HT the eggmine), or choose to just leave it to the Telvanni.

Regarding line length, it's important to remember that this is a full-on faction, with multiple bases. (Like Fighters' Guild, not like Molag Bal Cult)

Therefore, quests should be more limited, in order to keep in line with vanilla factions/not allow too much promotion too soon. (Top rank availiable from these quests alone should be Agent, if we're really generous)

I'd say 8-10 quests is recommended. More if there are only going to be four or so bases, but I don't have that info (I know Helnim, OE, Kragenmoor?)


@ Hem, the cult locations have been set out in some thread or other (I think one of the old 'major and factional' threads). It's something like this: M1 - Bal, M2 - Boethiah, M3 - Azura, M4 - Dagon, M5 - Malacath, M6 - Mephala, Sheogorath.

[theviking]

Unfortunately, the ruin which I planned as a boethiah cult headquarters and made in that way, Oethadapilu is now on map3. There are other guilds that have no guildhalls in map2 because of the map2/3 split. So I present this new table of factions:

House Telvanni:

The Helnim Gambit
Quests for master Vaerin (possibly will involve the first few ranks of the boethiah cult)
Quests for Llevari Telsaran?

Other Factions:

The fighters guild
The thieves guild
Imperial cult
Boethiah cult (should present an alternative for the mages guild to please magic characters)
Imperial Legion
Imperial archeological society (Theo's line about Kemel-Ze and Amthuandz)
East Empire company (MMMWSKOZ's (Cant get the name right, ever) line)
Morag Tong (I've got a quest plan for this, I just need to work it out.

As you all see, this makes map2 entirely doable, but map3's going to be big.
I agree with BC about the amount of quests for the EEC, we will certainly have them on three other maps.

[Chin Music]

The cult of Boethiah should be a faction for warriors, not mages. Boethiah is always depicted as a great fighter who loves battle and competition.

If one of the cults were to be heavily magic-oriented, it would be Azura.

And while this is just me talking, I would personally cut down on the amount of cults, both to make the existing ones better and to avoid the work involved in creating quests for some of the more obscure cults. But I have no idea how difficult making faction questlines is in the end.

Just for example, how would you go about writing a questline for a cult of Malacath? He doesn't really seem to lend himself to much. And the Morag Tong virtually IS the cult of Mephala.

Also just as a question, if the Morag Tong has a presence in the current iteration of Map 2, where is their guildhall? I was surprised there wasn't one in Port Telvannis or Map 1 at all, but they don't really seem to be anywhere else either.

[theviking]

They haven't got a guildhall, but a secret training headquarters, where they train new recruits. That allows us to make a great introdution of the Morag Tong, because you have to be trained first and you have to find the secret headquarters, (just like in Vvardenfell) to start the quests. Just try to find it, chin music, it is hidden very well.

[Gnomey]

The cult of Boethiah should be a faction for warriors, not mages. Boethiah is always depicted as a great fighter who loves battle and competition.

If one of the cults were to be heavily magic-oriented, it would be Azura.

And while this is just me talking, I would personally cut down on the amount of cults, both to make the existing ones better and to avoid the work involved in creating quests for some of the more obscure cults. But I have no idea how difficult making faction questlines is in the end.

Just for example, how would you go about writing a questline for a cult of Malacath? He doesn't really seem to lend himself to much. And the Morag Tong virtually IS the cult of Mephala.

Also just as a question, if the Morag Tong has a presence in the current iteration of Map 2, where is their guildhall? I was surprised there wasn't one in Port Telvannis or Map 1 at all, but they don't really seem to be anywhere else either.

I agree that worshippers of Boethiah generally tend to be warriors, but I think that the amount of cults should stay. There's one cult for every major Daedra in Morrowind, which would allow players to pick their favourite. I don't think that we should limit the player's choice.

Malacath's quests would be all about helping those shunned by society, and Orcs in general, probably. Take a look at his quest in vanilla Morrowind. The cult itself would probably also be sort of isolationist; I think they both dislike and want to be pariah folk. They wallow in their misery, so to say. Of course, not all of the quests would be about helping people in need. There can only be so many versions of that quest. But I'm sure the excellent questers here will come up with more plotlines.

Also, the Morag Tong isn't really a true cult to Mephala. They are a legitimate assassins guild, and by being legitimate alone they pretty much already going against part of her concept. The worshippers of Mephala would probably have various wild rituals, which would be fairly similar to what you would expect from Sanguine, but with a larger variety of crimes.

[Chin Music]

With a little help from the Construction Set, I did find the Morag Tong training hall. Was I supposed to be dropped down into that cave? Seems like that would get annoying after a while. Even if you are required to find it to join, it still doesn't really explain the lack of a guildhall in Port Telvannis. No matter.

Malacath and Mephala would be the only factions I might consider not doing. Maaaybe Mehrunes Dagon. But those are just my feelings, as I mentioned before. Part of the reason I feel this way is that I think that some of the cults have a high risk of being too similar, but I'm interested to see how that might be cleverly avoided, and maybe I can help along the way.

While I'm really getting off-topic here, I like to think about this sort of thing, how the cults might be different from one another. In terms of basic archetypes I'd go with something like:
Molag Bal - Mostly magic with some combat
Mehrunes Dagon - Mostly combat with some magic
Boethiah - Combat/Stealth
Azura - Magic
Mephala - Stealth
Malacath - Combat
Sheogorath - Little bit of everything

[immortal_pigs]

@ Chin Music
Perhaps go further then just the archetypes; those are simply the fighting styles they'd use, but not really the themes or ideas behind the cults. I agree with most of the archetypes, in general I'd have it look something like this:

Molag Bal
- Domination and Rituals
- Mostly magic with a preference for Illusion, Mysticism and Conjuration.
- Combat mainly in the form of Blunt Weapons.

Mehrunes Dagon
- Massive Destruction and a real threat to society
(I'm thinking a big cult with lots of members that simply want to destroy)
- Destruction, Alteration and large area spells.
- Both Combat and Magically focused.
- Heavy Armor seems fitting.

Boethiah
- See below.
- Combat, aided by Stealth.
- Alteration might be fitting, as well as spells that enhance oneself.
- Uses people rather then summoned Daedra.
- Medium Armor, Short Blades and Spears.

Mephala
- Mainly stealth accompanied by Magic.
- This could also be one of the larger cults, I believe there is a place called "Sirrilas Shrine" (which is huge), that could be the cults location.

Malacath
- What Gnomey said, as well as elements of honor and unbreakable vows. I'd say this would be the most "good" cult out there.
- Lot's of Orcs.
- Focused mainly on Combat and enchanted weapons.
- Appreciates a variety of weapon skills.

Sheogorath
- Insanity, in many different forms. Should contain a lot of humor.
- The cult would have a little of everything when it comes to Stealth/Magic/Combat.
- The preferred skills could be completely random.

I skipped Azura since I don't really get him/her.


In anticipation of the Boethian cult I'd already gathered some Lore/Info, so this might help:

Themes:
Deceit
Conspiracy
Plots of murder and assassination
Treason
Unlawful overthrow of authority
Heroic successes over various enemies
Archenemy of Molag Bal
Brutality
Bloody competitions in her honor
Uses mortal warriors

Associated Daedra:
Hunger

Summoning Date:
2nd of Sun's Dusk [Daedra Heart]

Artifacts:
Goldbrand
Ebony Mail
Fearstruck [destroyed]

Lore Pieces:
-Boethiah, whose sphere is deceit and conspiracy, and the secret plots of murder, assasination, treason, and unlawful overthrow of authority. [Different then Mephala, who DOES these things, rather then plan them.]
-All manner of Dark Elven cultural 'advances' are attributed to Boethiah, from philosophy to magic to 'responsible' architecture. Ancient Velothi allegories are uniformly heroic successes of Boethiah over enemies of every type, foundation stories of Chimeri struggle.
-Daedric power of much importance in Morrowind. There, he is always the archenemy of Boethiah, the Prince of Plots.
-My brother was a warlock of the cult of Boethiah-and from what he told me, the Dark Warrior was closer to my spirit than the treacherous Molag Bal. Boethiah is a Warrior Princess who acts more overtly than any other Daedroth. After years of skulking and scheming, it felt good to perform acts for a mistress which had direct, immediate consequences. Besides, I liked it that Boethiah was a Daedra of the Dark Elves. Our cult would summon her on the day we called the Gauntlet, the 2nd of Sun's Dusk. Bloody competitions would be held in her honor, and the duels and battles would continue until nine cultists were killed at the hands of other cultists. Boethiah cared little for her cultists-she only cared for our blood. I do think I saw her smile when I accidentally slew my brother in a sparring session. My horror, I think, greatly pleased her.
-Mehrunes Dagon, Molag Bal, Peryite, Boethiah, and Vaernima are among the most consistently "demonic" of the Daedra, in the sense that their spheres seem to be destructive in nature. The other daedra can, of course, be very dangerous, but seldom purely for the sake of destruction, as these five can. Nor are those five aforementioned daedra identical in their destruction. Mehrunes Dagon seems to prefer natural disasters, earthquakes and volcanos, to vent his spleen. Molag Bal prefers employing actual daedralings, and Boethiah inspires the arms of mortal warriors. Peryite sphere seems to be pestilence, and Vaernima's torture.
-Boethiah and Azura are the principles of the universal plot, which is begetting, which is creation, and Mephala makes of it an art form.

EDIT:
Oh and, I thought Map3 would be Mephala's turn, being the place of the "Mephalain Mountains" I figured that made the most sense. Is there actually a correlation between mountain names and the cults?

[Chin Music]

I might post about it later, but more for personal satisifaction I'm trying to create a rundown of each of the cults, with brief descriptions as to how they work and what their quests might involve, as well as favoured attributes/skills.

Boethiah is the Prince of Plots, and his cult is concerned with treason, betrayal, conspiracy and secret murder. Quests would involve going undetected while placing incriminating objects or documents, eliminating key people in suspicious ways and otherwise intentionally misleading others, all with the aim of creating suspicion and conspiracy between groups, with the ultimate goal to incite all out conflict without attracting suspicion to yourself. Boethiah loves fighting, and rites and rituals would come in the form of pitting your strength against others in open battle.

So for example, separating two lovers by convincing them they are cheating on each other, or framing another person for stealing to get them thrown in prison, or inciting a family feud by killing one of them and leaving evidence to suggest the other side did it. Eventually it could escalate to a huge interwoven intricate plot which could result in the ruin of an entire settlement and its economy.

[Gez]

Oh and, I thought Map3 would be Mephala's turn, being the place of the "Mephalain Mountains" I figured that made the most sense. Is there actually a correlation between mountain names and the cults?

Then we should drop Azura since she has her Coast with her Shrine and her secret not-really-cultists-but-protégés-anyway, the Dissident Priests (Holamayan is on Azura's Coast, near Azura's Shrine, and only opens at dawn and dusk...).

[MMMowSkwoz]

The Cult of Sheogorath is going to be so much fun to make.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Perhaps go further then just the archetypes; those are simply the fighting styles they'd use, but not really the themes or ideas behind the cults.

Yes. It is the storylines that will distinguish them moreso, as with any other faction.

Mehrunes Dagon
- Massive Destruction and a real threat to society
(I'm thinking a big cult with lots of members that simply want to destroy)

Nooo, please no. That would be far too cliché, and would be impossible to prevent from becoming uber. Nonono. Look at Hrordis in the Halfway Tavern (Pelagiad) to see what Morrowind Dagon worshippers are like. Of course we'd develop things, but not into 'we smash' types, please.

One idea - Map4, near Cyrodiil border. Mythic Dawn, anyone? That is the only excuse for such a plotline (and even then, low-key, tieing in to the Oblivion plot, but not actually opening gates or anything - just setting up). Oh yeah, and one quest has to be to induct Ulen Athram.

Mephala
- Mainly stealth accompanied by Magic.
- This could also be one of the larger cults, I believe there is a place called "Sirrilas Shrine" (which is huge), that could be the cults location.

Malacath
- What Gnomey said, as well as elements of honor and unbreakable vows. I'd say this would be the most "good" cult out there.
- Lot's of Orcs.
- Focused mainly on Combat and enchanted weapons.
- Appreciates a variety of weapon skills.

These two, very much so. It is a perfect use of these Cults to invert the Good/Bad Daedra stereotypes. I like the idea of a benevolent band of Orcs/outcasts at the top of a snowy mountain in the Velothis.

Sheogorath
- Insanity, in many different forms. Should contain a lot of humor.

Less humorous, more serious. I think it should be more a 'Dementia' than 'Mania' feel faction, if you think in SI terms. It wouldn't fit with the Argon Jungle and grimness of Map 6 if it was all laughs and silliness.



Azura I think would be another opportunity to go for a completely new angle on a Prince. It would need a lot of thought on serious 'lore' levels in order to do something original and compelling, but if pulled off, would make a strong contribution to people's views of this somewhat misunderstood Prince. We don't want a lame 'good guys with Restoration' cult.


Regarding Boethian Cult, check out Lud's always good work on the Map 2 MQ.

Oh and, I thought Map3 would be Mephala's turn, being the place of the "Mephalain Mountains" I figured that made the most sense. Is there actually a correlation between mountain names and the cults?

No. That would be lame.

with the ultimate goal to incite all out conflict without attracting suspicion to yourself.

No. Again, we need to keep these things on the right side of uber. I.e., the non-uber side. MBC already pushes it (although just about acceptably, in Telvanni territory).


And Gez, that's silly. It's not like there isn't more than one cult in Morrowind. Each shrine is effectively its own cult, after all.

[Gez]

And Gez, that's silly.

The silliness was the point.

[Hemitheon]

Now hold on. Why would Azura be Map3? Just because of the Nerevar connection? If so, then that's just cliche.


As for a place for the Boethiah cult, you could always switch out a statue in Rasdamassilu, Ald Mirathi, Hassulsallusalkit. But whichever you choose, it'll need some revamping.

The questing for this cult is gonna be super fun. Imagine the player preparing and entering into the Tournament of Ten Bloods. Maybe we could switch out another weapon for Boethiah's axe which is currently being used in Map1., iirc. That way the axe can play an important role in the Boethiah Cult.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

The Axe is not used in Map 1. Someone put it there (lamely) and it was excised when we got together and sorted out the mess that was Map 1 quests in '07.

Azura's in 3 because she was the last one to be placed (apart from Shiggles), and that was the last remaining hole. And did you not read what I said? That (I'd have thought) would un-lame the whole thing, and make it also extremely interesting.

[karpik777]

While I'm not a TR modder I'd like to contribute my 0.03$.

I'd see Dagon's cult as a faction tailored for battlemage type characters. Heavy armor, axes, destruction and conjuration (summonoing scamps/clannfears/dremora anyone?) with short blade added to honor the Razor.

Possible ideas for quests could be:
- preparation for the events of Oblivion (as BC said)
- hunting down our old friend Imago Storm and bringing his soul to Dagon (I'm sure he'd like to play with the traitor...)
- we know that the Dark Brotherhood had struck a deal with some Dagon cultists to aid them in their fight againts the MT...

If it could be made, Mehruneses' axe would be a nice final reward (even in the form of a scripted bound weapon spell).


On a sidenote - will the player be able to join all the cults, only one or perhaps few, but not all?

[Theo]

I think this thread was meant to consult map 2 quests only. If you want to discuss daedric cults on other maps, I believe it would be better to start a new thread to keep things orderly.

[Sarudak]

As far as Azura. Remember, Azura was the one who curse the Chimer turning them all into Dunmer and she's not exactly on the most friendly of terms with the tribunal. Maybe her cult could be something against the Tribunal but would help the common people in the end? I don't know.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

I think this thread was meant to consult map 2 quests only. If you want to discuss daedric cults on other maps, I believe it would be better to start a new thread to keep things orderly.

[RelinQ]

Remember, there will be two FGs, two MGs and two TGs, one each in Necrom and Helnim. In each case one of these should probably only have a couple of quests.

-Necrom TG: Scared of the Ordinators in mourning, do little. 2?

Would it even be worth having a TG in Necrom? Im curious because like you mentioned, Necrom would be swarming with ordinators, Id be scepticle anyone from TG would be there, although... I guess this could be a contridicting point.

------------------

Sheogorath
- Insanity, in many different forms. Should contain a lot of humor.

Less humorous, more serious. I think it should be more a 'Dementia' than 'Mania' feel faction

Yeah I agree, Sheogorath isnt as humourous as he is corrupted(?). Also I would be thinking Sheogorath would be Map 5, Just because Map 5 is very lonesome and eiree which I think suits the isolated feel that sheogorath gives off. imo anyway.

As for Molag Bal, speechcraft should be skill due to the seduction aspect of Molag Bal. which is believe is mentioned in lore about the sedution of vivec in the second era or something [can someone confirm that for me?]

Edit: sorry about the offtopic stuff Thrig.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Relin, this is both off-topic, bumping an ancient thread, and contributing not very much that's new or interesting to a thread that would be better served by more constructive dialogue.

If you wish to contribute to quest design, please visit the Quests : Design forum and choose some stuff to look at there. Otherwise, don't necromance please!