possible wiki for the project? - SOLVED

aelina · Post by **aelina** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:47 pm

First of all, kudos to everyone involved in the project. It's truly fantastic. And fantastically huge...

Which brings me to my suggestion/question - is there anyone out there besides me who would like to see a TRWiki along the lines of the UESPWiki (another truly fantastic undertaking)? I know the Creators have enough on their plates, but maybe there are one or two humble non-modders, just parasitic users of the fruits of their labors, like me, who would be interested in codifying their wisdom? (Maybe one who actually knows how to get a wiki up and running ...?)

I'd be happy to take an active role on a "wiki team," although I'm not sure I'm savvy enough to head one up. Definitely not on the techie side, I'd be of more use on content...

Anyway, reactions? What do the Creators themselves say? Who do I have to talk to to get the idea approved? Let's see how the forum responds...

Chin Music · Post by **Chin Music** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:07 pm

The Construction Set is the only wiki I need.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:33 pm

Wiki of what? We already have our tutorial section, and the UESP itself has a CS section, doesn't it? (Beth may even run their own)

I don't think we really have anything 'unique' to share that warrants it's own site.

aelina · Post by **aelina** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:46 pm

ummm... quests, places, npcs? Granted, an entire wiki wouldn't be necessary, since the basics are covered in the UESP, but something similar to what it has for Bloodmoon and Tribunal - new items, new creatures ...

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:17 pm

im not sure if we need a wiki for the project itself, but i do think a wiki for the maps (outlining locations, important poeople, quests. etc.) is an excellent idea.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:30 pm

Couldn't we just use the UESP wiki? We could put stuff in the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/ and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/ namespace. See, for example, how it's done for [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:Cobl]Cobl[/url], [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:Midas_Magic]Midas Magic[/url] or [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:FCOM]FCOM[/url].

aelina · Post by **aelina** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:53 pm

Oh, um, that particular entry had escaped my notice

That would make things much easier. Does it need to be ok'd with the editors?

Alright, well, I'll give it a go, but really, anyone with more expertise than I have is more than welcome to join in - and that would be just about, well, everyone.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:36 pm

If I get the time, I could start that thing up. I'm assuming we want it similar in style to the game ones. But I have not played all of the quests, so maybe some people could help.

Aiwyn the Breton · Post by **Aiwyn the Breton** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:10 pm

I'm the n00best n00b, but like the idea: since TR is such a huge mod, we could ask to UESP admins if we can have a subsection like the "official" games... (meaning something like TR_Telvannis:Article_Name, TR_Hammerfell:Article_Name). Or, since I've noticed they don't have articles even on the official expansions like entertainers, firemoth and so on, we could ask for a new subsection on Mods and popular plugins...

But I think for a Quest help/walktrhough, Maps, and so on entries is better to make a brand new wiki, better than forum section, actually, because:

- on a wiki you can SEARCH the things you need
- you can connect and organize better the contents
- you don't lose articles
- we could make it just for finale or pre-final releases but if something changes, editing a wiki or erase a no no longer avaible quest/item/whatever is easier and faster and you don't need to be an admin to do it but you can set up (you can make articles editable only by registered users)
- you can add external links for lore to the UESP and from UESP to TRWiki if you want to "spam" a bit, expanding their lore articles (like Indoril's, Dres's Necrom's, Kemel-Ze's etc.)

Plus, you can have it in more than one language, and for an international community this is an advantage, (if somebody wants to translate the articles in his mother language who will stop him/her?

)

I admin two game-based wikis (on PBEMs) on wikia, so if you need something I can help setting it up...

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:56 pm

Aiwyn the Breton wrote:I'm the n00best n00b, but like the idea: since TR is such a huge mod, we could ask to UESP admins if we can have a subsection like the "official" games... (meaning something like TR_Telvannis:Article_Name, TR_Hammerfell:Article_Name). Or, since I've noticed they don't have articles even on the official expansions like entertainers, firemoth and so on, we could ask for a new subsection on Mods and popular plugins...

Did people read my post or what?

Write an article for Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt, then you can write a lot of articles like Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Map1, Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Helnim, Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Astius_Claenia, Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Which_Witch?, Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Ingredients, and so on. Just copy the structure of the Morrowind articles.

And likewise for Tes4Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt.

THIS IS HOW IT'S DONE ON THAT WIKI.

Shit, I even provided examples of mods that have articles with subpages there for an illustration of how this is done there and how there's no need for special negotiations or what-have-you.

The plan is already there. No more discussion needed. What's needed is for people to start writing that shit up. (I don't have the time for the moment, but I'll get to it eventually if nobody else does.)

TheGooch · Post by **TheGooch** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:10 pm

Honestly i dont think it would be wise for a new member to create such pages, i believe it should be up to the admins and the elder members, the ones that know the project inside and out (and you guys dont have access to all of the forum/project).

I do like the sound of a wiki, but only if it were only editible by TR admins/moderators and possibly some modders.
not everyone...

And the only reason for using an off-site site such as uesp, would be to spread the word of TR and show it off more.

Im not sure how many pages we could have, but it would be nice/cool if each modder of the project could show a bit of themselves on their and show their accomplishments for the project.

but at the least we could do, is have an intro page, filling those of the UESP pages, the ones that Gez linked.

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:50 pm

As before, we request that fans not write entries to our page, as the perspective they have as guests or fans is very different than the one we see day in and day out in the daily grind here in TR.

Aiwyn the Breton · Post by **Aiwyn the Breton** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:00 pm

TheGooch wrote:Honestly i dont think it would be wise for a new member to create such pages, i believe it should be up to the admins and the elder members, the ones that know the project inside and out (and you guys dont have access to all of the forum/project).

Haplo wrote:As before, we request that fans not write entries to our page, as the perspective they have as guests or fans is very different than the one we see day in and day out in the daily grind here in TR.

I did not anything, I was just expressing an opinion, wich is that if is an internal TR thing admins can have more control on it and users can find things in a easier way. And I tell by experience with other things I did for other stuff completely non-ES related.

AND i was offering help in creating and managing the thing IF and WHEN there will be something to start creating and managing, I never meant to wrote it, I can't write about something I (still) don't know.

TheGooch wrote:I do like the sound of a wiki, but only if it were only editible by TR admins/moderators and possibly some modders. not everyone...

It's possible to do something like that, i did it for mine: You have to protect all pages and set privileges to varius state of editing, it's a bit tricky, but depends from wiki to wiki. But I still didn't found a way to not allow all registered members to open new articles: you can protect only the article you already wrote, but I think there's a way to filter registrations.

@Gez: sorry , it's true I miss your final sentence, but I still think "asking" to UESP staff is in order: just I don't know the policy of UESP admins (I even don't know who they are, from what I know one of them could be you or non of them could have heard about TR) and I don't know if such a large numbers of sub-articles can be accepted, that's all. It's always database entries and stuff running on their server... but if you know there shall be no problem, there shall be no problem.

/me retires in a penitent silence[/i]

aelina · Post by **aelina** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:49 pm

Alright folks, this is the deal: Gez, I took your suggestion and asked at UESP, they were enthusiastic but someone mentioned that the TR "staff" had, at some point, requested that UESP NOT discuss the project and that if that request still stood UESP should respect that wish. Rightfully so. So I pm'd Lady Nerevar, since she had replied positively to my post here, to ask her to liaise with the "staff" to find out, she pm'd back saying she didn't have the time at the moment and suggesting I ask Thrig or Haplo. Which I did, Thrig didn't answer, Haplo said

the request still stands. Our website contains all the information anyone would want to know; there isn't enough trivia or fun facts to warrant an article discussing them let alone an entire wiki.

So... if I am right in assuming that the "staff" mentioned in the UESP discussion ([url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/General_talk:Tamriel_Rebuilt]here[/url] if you want to read it) is the "team" listed on the TR site, it seems there isn't complete agreement on that front. Lady Nerevar, Gez and Aeven seem to be in favor of the idea, Haplo is against it (though I must respectfully disagree with his reasoning), the rest have not weighed in.

I agree that IF a wiki gets started, it would be beneficial if someone with a deeper knowledge of the mod kept an eye on it. However the UESP has high standards for correctness and ethics and the pages can be set up in a sandbox for approval before they're actually published. I understand that the team doesn't want everyone and their brother publishing (mis)information about the mod (hard to prevent in the age of internet, but again I refer to UESP's ethics standards). One solution would be to set up a new sub-team to be responsible for the wiki.

I think there is enough content to start a wiki (or call it an extended walk-through if it makes you feel better) - and considering the enormity of the planned project, "recreating the world of Tamriel," there will certainly be more than enough content in the future. It would be easier to start a wiki now than to wait until the whole project is done and try to cover it all in one fell swoop.

I don't want to undermine anyone's authority, but unless Haplo speaks for everyone I suggest that the "staff/team" comes to a consensus among themselves. If he does speak for everyone, then fine, that's the end of it.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:20 pm

Well you can have my vote. But chances are such a project wouldn't get alot of attention from the current team as most of us are always busy.

Mind you, I just completed an interior inventory of Map1 so that may be helpful for the wiki. And Im planning a list of NPC's and Services of Map1, for the sake of organization.

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:47 pm

What Hemi said. I think it would be a great thing to have, but unless you can find TR staff willing to do it, it would have to be done by non-members with occasional quality checks.

But in the end it's a decision for the core. Hopefully they'll get back to you soon.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:16 pm

Bah, why can't people just work on the project itself...?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:18 pm

ok quick clarification on what i agree with:

YES to walkthroughs, locations of items, and various other game related content.
NO to progress, screenshots, insider info, etc.

this is what i think some of you dont separate. im not agreeing to a replacement site, just a place where people can look up quests or cheat parts of the map. since it really has nothing to do with the team itself it can be done by regular people who play the maps, with occasional checks by team members (though, really, what is there to check?)

i see no harm in at least trying a player based FAQ. it would help people through quests and help them enjoy the maps more, while at the same time directly next to no effort away from the project.

[edit] started a thread in admins about this, hopefully it will get somewhere.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:40 pm

Lady Nerevar wrote:ok quick clarification on what i agree with:

YES to walkthroughs, locations of items, and various other game related content.
NO to progress, screenshots, insider info, etc.

By "no screenshots", you mean "no promotional screenshots", right? That is to say, not [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Screenshots]this[/url]. But it isn't a ban on putting illustration within an article?

I'm seeing articles like [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Balmora]this[/url] but for TR cities and towns such as Bal Oyra or Helnim, [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Arnand_Liric]this[/url] but for TR NPCs, [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Services]this[/url], [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Factions]this[/url], [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Items]this[/url], [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Spells]this[/url] or [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Ingredients]this[/url] updated with TR infos, etc.

Many of these articles (especially the places/people/creatures/items ones), once made, could use a screenshot or two for illustration.

Of course, progress report or inside info would be out. The whole deal would be written just as if it were an official Bethesda expansion.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:43 pm

yep, that is exactly what i mean. illustrations are fine, but no advertisement screenshots.

rpeh · Post by **rpeh** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:25 pm

I thought I should clarify a couple of things on how UESP would approach including TR.

First, we'd make absolutely no claim to be the "official" wiki of TR. The name of the site makes it clear we're not the official wiki for Morrowind or Oblivion, and that would apply to any mods too.

Second, I doubt anybody would want to steal your thunder by posting confidential information or in-progress aspects of your work. I think the site would be used only to document existing, released code rather than anything coming in the future.

Third, it wouldn't be opinion-based. Any comments that insulted or criticized your work would be removed unless they were in a user's own area where all comments are recognized as personal.

Lastly, I would hope that any area of UESP devoted to TR could be developed without taking away effort that would be used to further improve the mod. There's surprisingly little crossover between the modding community and the community at UESP, and it's possible that new people would be attracted to your project. I'm an example of this - I'd never downloaded TR until I read Aelina's request on UESP, but now I've got them I'm seriously impressed and likely to contribute at least to any wiki pages that might appear.

Sorry to jump in like this, but I thought a few words to set some fears to rest might be helpful. In general, take a look at our Morrowind and Oblivion pages and you'll see how I think we'd approach documenting TR - although that kind of decision would obviously be taken by the community on UESP.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:13 pm

thanks for dropping by

our whole issue with people posting things on other sites relates not so much to UESP but to the internet in general (we have had all kinds of issues in the past). i think i speak for all of us when i say that UESP does a great job of upkeeping a great source of info on the games.

glad you like the mods!

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:19 pm

Yep, UESP is awesome.

So is that ok-ed by the core then?

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:55 am

TheGooch wrote:Honestly i dont think it would be wise for a new member to create such pages, i believe it should be up to the admins and the elder members, the ones that know the project inside and out

Christ, Yes -.-, Smartest thing Ive read all day.

Ive seen to many wiki's been screwed up by noobs in my time.

I do agree with Lady N's comments about having wiki pages just on the main points though, Its always good to keep an outline of what the project/maps are about, but at the same time you dont want current concepts and anything like 'works in progress' up there at all.

Ive been thinking of a Wiki for quite a while now

, even before I saw this thread. I also think its probably a good idea to keep the content with UESP. I mean when there is a final release, If need be we could move it, but I doubt we'll need to do that.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:01 pm

hm, seems that we forgot to mention. the idea for a user run wiki has passed approval. please start adding articles to the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/ space. Add ONLY articles that belong in the "world" and "gameplay" information sections and keep all organization the same as UESP.

aelina · Post by **aelina** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:06 am

Thanks! Organization of the page is underway.

TheGooch · Post by **TheGooch** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:53 am

yes, that was my doing. thought there should be a little something there.

will do the TES4 one tonight or maybe tomorrow...

rpeh · Post by **rpeh** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:29 pm

TheGooch wrote:will do the TES4 one tonight or maybe tomorrow...

If you don't mind me asking, how far away is the TES4 one from availability? If it's more than a couple of weeks, I'd prefer you didn't create the page just yet.

I'm not going to stop you if you want to do it, but I think UESP should only be in the business of hosting publicly-available material. From the comments above, there seems to be a lot of resistance to having progress reports hosted elsewhere too.

TheGooch · Post by **TheGooch** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:37 pm

Stirk is not far from 1.0 public release(which was what i was going to base most of the Tes4 stuff around for now).
although the first regions for hammerfell are quite far away.
(from what i understand...this may not be the case though)

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:58 pm

Stirk has been not far from its big 1.0 release for months now.

Every time the bugs in the current internal versions are all fixed, somebody comes up with a slew of other bugs to fix... It's not a problem, but it means the end always seem close before further delay.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:37 pm

Just a note. A couple of interiors are probably going to get new names eventually, so be aware that there are still changes being made.

rpeh · Post by **rpeh** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:41 pm

You've probably noticed that the pages have been started. There are a few.... meta-pages that could use your help.

[url]http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Map_1[/url] and [url]http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Map_2[/url] would benefit from some details about such things as when they were released, who wrote / designed / tested etc.

The same is true of [url]http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Stirk[/url] - which doesn't even exist yet.

If you feel like adding something, it would be a great help.

Tamriel Rebuilt

possible wiki for the project? - SOLVED

possible wiki for the project? - SOLVED

Thoughts on the Idea

Info Required