The Unofficial Indoril and Dres Discussion

[Hemitheon]

If it helps the Indoril storyline, I've created several finished interiors with the intention of them being used in House Indoril quests. Likewise, I did create the Grand Ascendant's house and several of my ideas appear within it.
Possible quests:

1) Serial killer is rampaging through Almalexia. Turns out to be a psycho Sheogorath worshipper.

2) The Dumping Grounds on Gorne have been compromised. Someone is smuggling artifacts from the island and sending them to a Vvardenfell contact. HI needs someone to deal with this permanently.

3) Horatio Gargonath is writing a nasty play about the Sevuro family. The GA wants you to steal the play or kill HG.

4) Vampires have walled themselves up in an abandoned monastery beneath Mt. St Delyn (lol). Not only does HI want the player to exterminate the vampires, it always wants the player to recover the bones of a famous general for proper burial at Necrom.

5) Neril Sevuro can no longer cover the indiscretions of Lady Mlahan of Shadrad, a velothi dome along the east coast. Sevuro wants the player to investigate. Turns out Lady Mlahan was asked to guard a particularlly evil relic and has now gone mad. SO the player can either kill Lady M or confiscate the item and return it to its resting-place, a daedric cave devoted to Hermaeus Mora. The artifact is a set of necromantic skulls.

[MMMowSkwoz]

I seriously doubt any quests have been made for Indoril, but have any of the main characters / the council been thought up yet? If not, that would be a very useful thing to be doing around now, methinks.

[daedren]

A duel it shall be then! Or maybe not, If you like House Indoril that's cool. It's not that they are really uninteresting or that they are a "bad house" lore-wise. I was just showing some House Dres team spirit. Continue loving what you love, it makes the world a better place.

Lol, I say the same to you. And that's why I love TES so much - I can't play the game the way I want, in a perspective totally different from yours, and we both can have a great experience!


Concerning the storyline for house Indoril, I'll think a bit about it. I think it must have a storyline that, not being purist to the point it's not enjoyable, shall have its quests emphasizing the true nature of the house - their religious affinity to tradition and history, their rigorous and magic sense of honor and knowledge, and I even think we could do something with their relation with the Temple. Well, I don't know about engine limits or so, but it would be cool if we could do one or two quests in which the player does something to support the temple, or vice-versa. That would be a great way of showing in-game some possible relations between houses (I always felts interactions between houses too sterile).

Well, I have to think about it. and I invite everyone to also do so!


EDIT: I didn't read the previous two posts before writing my own

Hemi, I like the idea of those quests, specially 4 and 5. I think that kind of tasks, while should not be abused (i.e. take a sacred artifact to another place), really help emphasizing the true nature of HI, like its orthodox conduct. I think the main storyline should really reflect that.
I can't wait to see what it is gonna be; hope to help the best I can (just giving ideas, I don't know how to make quests hehe)!

[Black Cat]

hope to help the best I can (just giving ideas, I don't know how to make quests hehe)! Very Happy

Well I do, and though my showcase may make my quest designing and writing look less than average, I swear I am truly great/at least will be soon (The latest update is uploaded, only one error, you know you wanna help fix it so I can be promoted!). I would do House Indoril justice, provided I had some guys like you will to help me better understand the house. It should also be noted by those that were offended by my Indoril comments, that House Dres is the only house I like more than House Indoril, here is the list.

1.Dres (duh)
2.Indoril (Ultra-badass religious warriors)
3.Hlaalu (Only stealth based house vanilla Morrowind had)
4.Redoran (I hate their architecture, and I hate sandstorms)
5.Telvanni (God I hate them so much for every reason)

Anyhow I actually think the serial killer could be a profound quest to teach the player about the house of troubles, and why Indoril and the temple teach they are both good (for testing and trials to show you who you really are) and bad (because the kinda want to kill you).

Edit: Also, Daedren have you seen the Necrom Ordinators? They're amazingly cool. At least when I last saw them.

[Haplo]

Black cat, please stop speaking in a commanding and objective tone when the things you are saying are neither from a commanding position nor are they anywhere near objective. Also, as a member, you are not a promoted modder, and thus all your posts are the view of you alone, not a consensus where using the term 'we' would be applicable. Finally, no one appreciates your blatant discrimination towards certain ideas and parts of the game. And please watch the content of your posts, they are straying dangerously toward spam.

[Túrelio]

Indoril doesn't want to kill you more than any other outlander, unless you are the Nerevarine, then they might want to really kill you.


They aren't really "parents" they are more like the oldest and favorite brother if you while the Temple and the Tribunal are the parents of Morrowind, if you want to use that analogy.

It's not that they go around telling the other Houses what they should do, no more than the other Houses tell each other. They attempt to set themselves up as being in-charge of things basically. For example, if there are local councils that perhaps discuss and govern trade or local rules, the Indoril will attempt to put themselves or one of their own at it's head, and then try to dominate it. If the Temple needs to send a representative, an Indoril will probably influence it so that they send one of their own as that representative. If there are "ambassadors" to other provinces, or to the guilds, the Indoril will try to make it their own. Of course they have lost some of their power in recent times, and a Hlaalu King probably doesn't help them, but they probably still hold a strong grip over many positions of administration.

A great example is the Ordinators. They are not an exclusive Indoril organization, but the Indoril dominate them. Yes because it is service to the Tribunal, but the Ordinators are somewhat of a "Federal" level law enforcement. By dominating them, the Indoril can essentially go anywhere in Morrowind to hunt down heretics and criminals, even into territories that belong to the other Houses, and the Ordinators are fanatical enough that they will ignore Imperial law if they have to. It is a huge advantage. When you consider how Indoril works, think of how they might put themselves in a position of power, and how they will keep it. It doesn't have to be religiously motivated, but if they can fit that into it, they will.

[Black Cat]

Thank you, that gives me a more clear view of House Indoril. So how do you think the quests should be set up? I understand Indoril is involved in the Temple, and there will probably be a few quests related to that. There will probably also be a few quests related to the ordinators, but I don't think we could rely entirely on that either. What does the house itself do, besides work with the temple and dominate the ordinators? Has there ever been any lore for this?

[Thrignar Fraxix]

Fun little set of quotes that could be attributed to dunmer near a non-dunmer player when they advance (or try to) in great houses.
He may be an outlander but...
Redoran: He is a brave and honest warrior.
Telvanni: He is superior to me.
Hlaalu: He undercut my operations with a smile.
Indoril: He sure does love Ayem.
Dres: He sure bled like a dunmer.

The player should avoid house indoril territory when in that "I am the hortator! recognize me!" quest phase. The guards would probably have orders to attack on site. To be fair, the player would be warned the first time.

House indoril could have so many different quest lines, and quest givers, it truly has immense potential. It is the largest house, and is the entirety of map 3, our largest map. I would love to see a few quests in which you kill "heretics" under the guise of a mission as an ordinator, and the political ramifications therein.

There currently are no quests made for house indoril, nor have any been planned.

Ninja'd: Black Cat, read the 20 or so posts about house indoril in this thread. The house serves as ambassadors and administrates trade because of its position. There are other things too, I am sure.

[Black Cat]

I think Indoril's potential is almost a problem in itself. I mean if there is so much that could be done, what do you go with? A few kill the heretics quests is always a solid idea in Indoril's case I would suppose, but what if a little twist was added, like the heretics were daedra worshipers pretending to be priests of the tribunal. You could investigate for awhile, and when you found them, you'd confront them. I think it would make a quest a bit more interesting then running out to a cave and stabbing a few people, and I'm sure there will probably be plenty of those quests anyway.

[Túrelio]

Thank you, that gives me a more clear view of House Indoril. So how do you think we should set up the quests? I understand Indoril is involved in the Temple, and there will probably be a few quests related to that. There will probably also be a few quests related to the ordinators, but I don't think we could rely entirely on that either. What does the house itself do, besides work with the temple and dominate the ordinators? Has there ever been any lore for this?

Sure, Indoril lore exists all over from books like "The Poison Song" to the Tribunal expansion. We don't have a lot of direct examples of course, so its about getting a feel for what they are like and working from there. We know that they lost control of several councils and territory to Hlaalu after the Armistice. There is more, but I don't really have time to go fishing for it all, and I know a few people that know it better than I do for sure.

It is important to know, they dominate the Ordinators because the order is mostly Indoril, however that doesn't exactly mean that Indoril has direct control of them. Traditional Dunmer are obligated by duty to their Houses and family, as well as the Temple. But if you are an Ordinator that probably takes priority. However if someone in your House asks that you look into something that at least somewhat benefits or relates to the Temple, then you probably will. Also, while there are Hlaalu, Redoran, and probably even a few Telvanni and Dres in the Ordinators, they will recognize that if they need something, they will more likely get help from House Indoril. So its kind of a, "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" situation.

Indoril will also have income from farming and the slave trade of course, just not nearly to the degree as Dres. They influence trade as well, and they are warriors. They really in some ways take aspects of all the other Houses and combine them to some degree, but if you want to define them, I think I would go with Administration and Law. They govern, and that is what they do.

So the PC quests can be for going all over Morrowind and negotiating on the behalf of the House, the Temple, the Ordinators, and perhaps even Almsivi. They will also have warrior-like quests, for kill this or whatever, and quests similar to the Temple. At least that is what I would go with. TFs idea is a good example I think.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

I think Indoril's potential is almost a problem in itself. I mean if there is so much that could be done, what do you go with?

This is an entire great house series of quests, too much potential is not a problem.

A few kill the heretics quests is always a solid idea in Indoril's case I would suppose, but what if a little twist was added, like the heretics were daedra worshipers pretending to be priests of the tribunal.

That would be hilariously obvious, no.

Quests: Kill guy as an ordinator
Escort merchant
Ambush rival house's merchant while dressed as a member of a third house
Escort Pilgrim
Kill (cultist/vampire/heretic/vampire heretic cultist)
convert imperials (there is a nice little common village on the east coast for this)
Represent house indoril in (Conference)
Bargain with (person) to gain access to (thing)
The entire spectrum could be covered as far as quests are concerned, each with their own twists and unique things. Variety is good, Great potential can house great variety. House Indoril can kick great ass.

[Black Cat]

but if you want to define them, I think I would go with Administration and Law. They govern, and that is what they do.

So I gather that while they do not necessarily control everything, they do make a tremendous effort to be the most dominate house. I think there could be quests geared towards that in a more obvious way. While the houses that were on vvardenfell did try to gain more control, it was a little more subtle. I think a good example was when House Hlaalu sent you on a basic quest to get some Vivec alchemist to use their imported guar hides instead of redorans' local guar hides. It was an effort to gain more control of vvarndenfell's economy, but it seemed a little underground. Probably because that is how they chose to operate, but no matter. Maybe their could be an Indoril quest where you make sort of a bold Indoril-geared political statement, really stand up and say "We're House Indoril, and we will regain all we've lost."

Edit: Sorry TF I didn't see convert Imperial suggestion when I posted.

[Túrelio]

Sure, Indoril is about bold statements. But they are bound to have underhand tactics as well. I can see them challenging the honor of a member of another House, and ending up fighting or killing him, or just disgracing him, so that they can replace whatever that person controlled with one of their own.

Really underhand, would be them getting someone labeled as a heretic, so that the Inquisitors will come and lock that person away, or kill them. Of course they still have to be careful, because the Temple and Ordinators are multi-House organizations, so they can't just blatantly go to them and ask them to lock someone up for false charges. They have to find or plant the evidence first. A Hlaalu Ordinator will be obligated to arrest a Hlaalu Noble if he/she thinks the person is a heretic or criminal, and as an Ordinator, they will gladly do it regardless of what House the heretic is in.

The Indoril might also lend their warriors to the Temple or their allies as support troops I suppose. Indoril would probably gladly help Dres fight Argonian rebels/freedom fighters in southern Morrowind. They will also escort and defend pilgrims, perhaps even all over Morrowind, cooperating with the Ordinators and Buoyant Armigers, but mostly closer to home.


Edit:

convert imperials (there is a nice little common village on the east coast for this)

Actually that may be good or bad. The Temple doesn't actively proselytize(preach conversion), but I suppose they might get Indoril to do it for them in a way. Still they might not want them to either, I suspect they don't really worry about getting outlanders involved in the Temple unless the outlanders actually want to.

[Black Cat]

But they are bound to have underhand tactics as well.

I can see that, but I think the underhanded stuff should come at a higher level. Indoril seems to me all about it's power and honor, and trusting a lower ranking member to do something that could seem kind of shady might not be wise. Maybe when the PC gets five or six ranks up he might be considered a "real" Indoril, and not such an outlander that he would/might betray them. Of course, what I'm suggesting could be a little late in the quest line, and some people could get bored just doing kill this/that/and the other quests before long. So some of TF's suggestions which leaned towards the middle could prove to be an asset to the faction's fun factor.

[Túrelio]

What is "underhanded" is the reasons for doing it, the method could very well be legit, and if the player "betrayed" them, they could just as easily deny it. Besides, you have to get into the House to start with, so you will have to prove your dedication somehow before doing to many quests.

Actually later quests might involve the player doing some scheming themselves, or at least deciding how to get something accomplish, by underhanded tactics, straight up in the open, or with a friendly face.

[Black Cat]

So as TF stated earlier, the possibilities with House Indoril are indeed almost endless, at least with the ways one can make quests. All the Indoril ideas that have been suggested are certainly good ideas, but I can't shake the feeling that there is something really clever that no one has thought of, must just be me.


Moving on, about the more bold side of the Indoril quest line, would it be possible to do something like get a temple built in a small Imperial town towards the end, as sort of confirmation the player has affected Morrowind, or is this risking uberness? Or if this were a good idea, would it be better for a temple thing?

[Túrelio]

Not as an end quest, that will probably be a mid-upper level quest. There is an Indoril in Port Telvannis that failed to get a Temple built, this might be a good place for the player to pick up the quest and attempt him/herself to get it built.

On a side note, I think it would be neat if near the end of the Temple quests the PC helps construct a new monastery, and this monastery would be near or somehow effectively combined with the Indoril stronghold the player gets as well. That directly benefits players for completing both the Indoril and Temple quests, which they probably have to be a member of both to get the stronghold anyhow.

[Black Cat]

I meant towards the end, not actually as the end quest.

[Hemitheon]

There are more than enough monasteries in Indoril lands, from the one south of Sailen Vulgate, to Almas Thirr, to the monastery that cares for the Necrom Lighthouse, to the ones within the city Almalexia.

What if a major concern for House Indoril is the failing values/virtues of the younger members, members who are more loyal to Helseth and Barenziah than to Neril Sevuro and the Alma Rula. Perhaps Indoril's storyline focuses in on maintaining purity and intent. Neril Sevuro is focusing on eliminating internal and external threats (including his own son the leader of the young dissidents)for the sake of saving his House. If the player sides with Neril, then Sevuro adopts the player and names him/her his successor (The first-born would have died somewhere in the storyline). If the player sides with the changing tides, then Neril Sevuro is eliminated, leaving House Indoril weak enough to allow for the events of Oblivion.

Just as a sidenote, Neril Sevuro has 2 sons. The first-born is an ordinator and has been trained since his birth to become Grand Ascendant. The other is marginalized because he's younger and not the first.

[Black Cat]

What if a major concern for House Indoril is the failing values/virtues of the younger members, members who are more loyal to Helseth and Barenziah than to Neril Sevuro and the Alma Rula. Perhaps Indoril's storyline focuses in on maintaining purity and intent. Neril Sevuro is focusing on eliminating internal and external threats (including his own son the leader of the young dissidents)for the sake of saving his House. If the player sides with Neril, then Sevuro adopts the player and names him/her his successor (The first-born would have died somewhere in the storyline). If the player sides with the changing tides, then Neril Sevuro is eliminated, leaving House Indoril weak enough to allow for the events of Oblivion.

That could potentially be the "genius idea no one has thought of". It is certainly feasible in my mind that with Hlaalu gaining more and more power, especially with Helseth on the throne, many of the younger Indoril members might not be as rock-solid in the faithful department. But wouldn't that cause a split in the quest line? That can be time consuming and difficult to make can't it? Not only that, but I see many, many different faction discussions that demand quest line splits. I think that could cause some problems.

[Sload]

Neril Sevuro is a shitty ass name. Neril for gods sake? I couldn't see him as the mayor of Cupertino. Mountainview maybe, at a stretch.

Lady Mlan Hands takes the cake though. Seriously?

[Hemitheon]

It was just a placeholder name. I turned to my left and there was the MLA HANdbook.

The split wouldn't occur until VERY late in the storyline. Perhaps 4 quests from the end. The collapse of Sevuro's family would be rather quick. The death of his first son while on duty at X, perhaps while cleansing Dun Akafell? The elimination of the second son and reestablishment of authority OR the murder of Neril Sevuro and the eventual duel between the player and the second son. The winner becomes Grand Ascendant. By that point, the player gets a final choice to either realign with the Temple and tradition or break traditions.

[Haplo]

PS there will be no killing of Horatio Gargonath.

[Túrelio]

Although i think there could be some issues between the younger generation and the older(maybe some angst), a split and dissidence does not seem possible. Indoril's entire power comes from the Temple. It cannot afford to be in conflict with it. If his son is a dissident, he would immediately be locked up or worse. They don't really tolerate deviation. Especially if such a radical group was able to gain control of the House they wouldn't last long at all, as most of the House would be up in arms over it, and it would be a revolt.

Besides, Indoril's main issues shouldn't be internal conflicts, but their struggle with external influences, like Hlaalu and the Empire. This is where their main struggle has been for centuries, and where their ultimate demise comes from. I think any MQ for Indoril has to directly deal with this somehow.

[Hemitheon]

If we made the focus of Indoril quests the Empire or Hlaalu, then we wouldn't see any quests until the completion of Map4. The only imp settlements besides Ebonheart are Fort Lutemoth and some Nord village along the east coast.

[Haplo]

Although i think there could be some issues between the younger generation and the older(maybe some angst), a split and dissidence does not seem possible. Indoril's entire power comes from the Temple. It cannot afford to be in conflict with it. If his son is a dissident, he would immediately be locked up or worse. They don't really tolerate deviation. Especially if such a radical group was able to gain control of the House they wouldn't last long at all, as most of the House would be up in arms over it, and it would be a revolt.

Besides, Indoril's main issues shouldn't be internal conflicts, but their struggle with external influences, like Hlaalu and the Empire. This is where their main struggle has been for centuries, and where their ultimate demise comes from. I think any MQ for Indoril has to directly deal with this somehow.

According to Maslow's (a humanistic psychologist) [url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs.svg]hierarchy of needs[/url], the basic needs of a human (and by association, a society or collective group with similar interests) (lets assume it applies not just to humans, but to sentient living beings) most be met before the more advanced needs can be attempted. This means that each layer must be complete before the top layer can really be started. How this relates to House Indoril is that they will most likely be needing to look inward and fix the 'base' of their psychological pyramid before they look outward to try and take on these immense challenges. The best defense in some sports may be a good offense, but defense wins championships. Without it you're baseless and, aptly, defenseless.

So what I'm saying is I don't think we should write off the internal struggle as playing second fiddle. Although I personally think a big empirical power struggle would be more fun, I think the right thing to do would be to play it realistically. Carving an empire can come later.

Edit - Aw shit sniped by a Hemi

[Hemitheon]

An Imperial-related quest could have something to do with Drakehold. Maybe the Imperials desire to reestablish Drakehold. That would be an issue for the Councilor of Akamora.

[Túrelio]

Both Hlaalu and the Empire are trying to subvert Indoril's power over their own territory. We can have quests that deal with this without making the player actually go to a Hlaalu city. Fortunately for us, OE is the HQ for the Empire in Morrowind, so we can have plenty of quests that go there, but again they don't have to go to a specific location that is controlled by either faction. We can still have all our quests take place in Map 3. Eventually we need to add quests that cross into the different maps. We will always be at that disadvantage until we reach Map 6, but we can't let that stop us at every corner.

Edit:
You both sniped me... I took a while tho.

Anyhow, that's nice Haplo, but like real-life, problems rarely wait for you to sort out your "issues". In my opinion the angst the younger Indorils might have with their elders is not enough to keep them from attempting to defend themselves against Hlaalu and the Empire. They will suck it up, and do their duty for their House, like their forefathers have for centuries.

In any case, I don't see it being quite as extreme as you suggested Hemi. Any dissidence of that level, and the Grand Ascendant would get the Ordinators involved and have his own son locked up or executed, especially if he was the lesser of the two as you suggest.

[Haplo]

While one faction within Indoril is trying to face outside threats, another maybe focusing on internal issues, or vice versa, or both may be doing both internal and external handling separately of the other faction. Either way, your job as the player will be to take care of internal relations first, as the Indoril you will be working for are the older ones who think young upstarts are not as big of a problem now as encroaching Imperial and Hlaalu, and since they don't trust you yet (at the beginning of your quests), they won't trust you with the 'big picture' or 'big deals' like house to house or house to other national faction relations. Then once you've successfully unified the house, they'll trust you enough to start moving up the big cheese ladder.

[Túrelio]

Ok, this sounds better to me. Then we can leave extra-House conflicts for when we begin working on Map 4.

The internal conflict is significant enough that they want someone to deal with it, but not enough that they are going to start locking people up, yet. Maybe, most of the elders don't even really believe it is an issue, but you figure out that it is, and perhaps the particular noble you are working for also believes it is. It might come down to the player decided to lock up the radical element, or convince them to give up their ways.

We can still have quests that deal with Hlaalu and Imperial agents(this doesn't automatically mean spy or saboteur btw) in Indoril territory, most especially in Almalexia.

[Hemitheon]

Sevuro would do something about a rogue son if he was someone like Torquatus.

From what I have pictured, Neril Sevuro is exhausted. He's been fighting for House Indoril for over one hundred years. I'd say he has put some much faith into the Temple that now he's made himself utterly blind. His family may look chivalrous from the outside but Sevuro knows its already shattered. And he knows the price he paid for sustaining House Indoril. He paid for the House's security with the love of his sons. He would try anything not to kill the youngest son because he feels he's already made him suffer too much, how much more could he possibly take from his son other than his life. So he assumes that as long as he can amuse him, he can continue a faked father-son relationship. The mother has been dead for a long time. No doubt you've just seen the allusion to Denethor, because I just did.

[Sload]

hey maybe im mistaken but if i recall correctly vvardenfell's house quests went something like this

house redoran: the player joins up with a councilor to take on another councilor whose being totally uncool

house telvanni: the player joins up with a councilor to take on another councilor whose being totally uncool

house hlaalu: the player joins up with a councilor to take on another councilor whose being totally uncool

You'll notice those are all exactly the same and they're all internal conflict. Whether its the Sarethis and the Venims, Aryon versus Gothren, or the highly dysfunctional Dren family, every single house quest on Vvardenfell was centered around an internal conflict, with the occasional sniping at each other over ebony or whatever. In other words, internal conflict plots have already been done to death.

TR quests should NOT be influenced by the number of maps released at a given time! This is a unified whole being broken up to provide entertainment. There are, off the top of my head, 7 other factions that should be present on Map 3. House Indoril can WAIT.

And that's just higher level House Indoril anyway. The lower level quests are all trivial jobs like cleaning out vampires or whatever. So thoes can still be made.

Morrowind takes place in the moments before the most ground shaking event in the province since 1E 668. With the collapse of the Tribunal and the Empire within a decade of each other, power is going to shift enormously.

Where is it going to go? There's one man capable of consolidating power in the province. Hlaalu Helseth Raathim. Note the house title at the beginning of his name. Indoril is an ancient nobility realizing a little too late that the bourgeoisie have all the power now.

Their upper level quests should be devoted to the frantic realization that they are screwed. They are in conflict with Hlaalu over the Thirr trade and they are trying to strengthen the Alma Rula. The Telvanni are encroaching on their territory in the north east and they're losing influence in Mournhold. They are doing everything they can to hold on to the influence they have held for 3000 years.

But remember - they have to fail. The player will succeed in whatever tasks they're given of course, but in the end House Hlaalu has become an unstoppable force, and Indoril is a very movable object.

[Yeti]

But remember - they have to fail. The player will succeed in whatever tasks they're given of course, but in the end House Hlaalu has become an unstoppable force, and Indoril is a very movable object.

They don't have to fail just beacause of what happens in the future lore. I could take my character and kill every single hlaalu counciler and even king Helseth himself. This would make the Oblivion future impossible.

My point is the PC can do plenty of things in the game that mess with the future lore. I think the player should be given a choise of what to happen. Maybe the questline if they're hlaalu can lead to the Oblivion future while if you play Indoril you have a chance to change their fate. Plus I think playing through to the top of a faction just to find out you're faction is doomed would be kind of a let down.

[Sload]

Quests advance the storyline. What you do that goes against the storyline advanced by the quests is your own business.

Maybe you didn't pay attention, but this is what happened with Morrowind. For example, in House Redoran, even though you are successful in spying on the Caldera Ebony Mine, the questgiver in that case admits that Redoran is never getting their rights to Vvardenfell ebony. This sort of thing is very subtle, but thats mostly because Bethesda questing was very rushed and didn't they have the opportunity to turn the conflicts on Vvardenfell into really vibrant events.

This isn't OMG THE HOUSE JUST FELL APART in the last quest, this is far more subtle. I don't have any examples for Indoril because I didn't do much outlining for that house, but take the Andaram conflict. The Hlaalu settlement on the Andaram does not disappear. It exists and its existence is inevitable. House Dres can do whatever it wants, but in the end the settlement will still be there.

This is how Bethesda did it and this is how it should be done. Only in a TR lore thread could people find such simple things so objectionable.

[gro-Dhal]

So the Indoril should be super powerful badasses, but the Hlaalu and Dres should outsmart them and turn their (or the PC's) successes into failures.

[daedren]

Being playing a game, specially a game which gives such freedom to the player, it's obvious we can't prevent him/her from doing things that go against the history set by the quests. And, as Yeti said, it isn't even necessary to install a mod to change the path of history with some of our actions as players.

Bethesda understood this, so there was put some kind of effort making the quests not pointing to one direction, but kinda seem pointing to one direction. And I agree with Sload when he says that we should pay attention to it.

But it's not all. And we - as players who love the game, and having much more time to make things the best we can than Bethesda did - should try some new things and we should take some risks. That's how things develop and turn into better things: sometimes we're not sure, but if we try, we can at least see how it goes in practice.
Ok, we can't lose our minds and make a completely unrealistic quest line in which the player becomes the king himself, for example, I just say we sometimes should have our minds a bit more opened.

Look at Morrowind storyline: The player can kill Vivec or not, we can't be sure of his fate. Ok, that's contemplated in future lore, but, still, the truth is uncertain.


So, I think Hemi's idea is quite pertinent - ok, perhaps not so exaggerated - but at least it's a starting point we can work out from.
In my opinion, I agree with a perspective in which the player is not trusted until he reaches a certain point in the hierarchy of the house.
I think those quest ideas TF referred earlier do really good for some of the initial quests, as player is proving his/her loyalty to the house traditions and rules, and with those tasks the PC's getting a more consistent position within the house.
I really like the idea of the player being an ordinator in 1 or 2 quests and killing someone (that's the perfect excuse to fulfill many people's wishes of being an ordinator).

Of course, being HI so rigid in its thoughts and now that they are starting to lose their power, they won't trust the player right away. I think they should be able to see player's potential if he/she was in their side of the battle, so they use him right from the beginning to their own intents, but in a more subtle way. Then, as the player proves himself to the house, he/she could be presented to the deep secrets of the house, and get more background in the true dimension of HI problems (I think we could go with, say, HI seem to have more power than it truly had, while being at the same time one of the most prominent houses, of course). And those problems would lead to the temple and the ordinators in a more political way, for example, giving them support in some political discussion of great importance or something like that.

I agree HI storyline is filled with potential, and, in my opinion, it's the storyline which can handle more variety from all others. So we should use that in our favor. And I think the HI, giving so much care to its power, can't risk to lose their position relatively to other houses, but I think they wouldn't forget their internal issues either, coz being split from the inside would accelerate their degradation. And we can't expect, being a great house that ancient and powerful, that every member is willing to sacrifice their objectives for the good of their house. There are always people who want to screw everything, and get something with it.

So, I think it would be nice to have the storyline reflecting this struggle from the house itself. It's not only attacked by the other houses, it's even attacked from the inside. This situation leads to an even bigger feeling of urgency and despair. And the player could be that balance - will he align with some of those who want the house weakened, or will he fight for the good of the house? In the end, the situation can still be like the future lore says. The side the player chooses just determine if that status is reached more quickly or not.


I think HI will be really kick ass! And you don't know how happy I do feel for seeing it's getting more and more interesting as we talk about it

[MMMowSkwoz]

Is anyone in a position to make up a little 'the main characters in House Indoril' thread (something like Lud's Telvanni thread [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=19966]here[/url])? That would be a very useful starting point for discussion in my opinion, even if it's only general ideas at this point.

[daedren]

Is anyone in a position to make up a little 'the main characters in House Indoril' thread (something like Lud's Telvanni thread [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=19966]here[/url])? That would be a very useful starting point for discussion in my opinion, even if it's only general ideas at this point.

I don't have such knowledge to create that thread, but I do agree it would be great for us to have it. I even say it would be nice if someone who knows lore added in that thread a little resume of the house history and situation at the time of morrowind and if had a rough sketch of their aims and so on. That way, we could have a general view of the most important aspects oh house indoril in one place, and that would be easier then to work out a storyline who's believable (as well as side quests).
But I really think it should be done from someone who's really involved in lore, just to prevent some errors or something like that that would possibly make us design some elements based on wrong theories.



As a side note, I think that a good idea for implement in one of the beginning quests would be to the player travel to some sort of sacred location, to know more about the history and background of the HI. Then the quest giver would make some questions for the player to answer, and if he answered correctly, he would proceed.
I only say it would be nice because, besides being a good excuse for letting the player know more about the great house culture, which is awesome, it would be a way for us to show the almost religious feeling of house members about themselves and their history. Tradition is important for them, so they want the player to know it and act, having them in mind.
But I don't know. What do you think?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Sload's outline sounds very good. I very much like the idea of the PC taking the reins just as the House is about to crumble. Perhaps their ascent to the head position is what screws Indoril. Players get to feel all hella cool 'cos they just took over House Indoril, but it actually shows the severe weakening of House Indoril to those who are paying attention. Maybe.

Oh, and I don't like 'Ordinator quests' (except honorary 'bash some witch with this epic Daedric warhammer' style ones like in Vv's Temple) for House Indoril. Certainly not if the player gets to wear Ordinator armour. I'd hate it to look like we'd forgotten the two organisations are seperate.

Ordinator quests would go in the Temple, if anywhere.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

Indoril official in the temple wants someone killed and framed as a heretic. He won't ask anyone other than a member of house indoril to kill the person because it is fairly apparent when you are asked to plant evidence that this is a political killing. I think this would get old fast, especially considering you would need to travel to the ends of the earth probably to kill the person, so maybe after 2 quests you come back to find the quest giver dead and with evidence of heresy planted on him.

They are not as separate as you might think, especially when politically motivated such as these would be.