Map1 Fix reports [Momo's quest-fixing round]

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:32 pm

"I couldn't make out a word he said. It sounded like traditional Dunmeri though. I should seek out a translation book, or someone who could offer me a lesson in this old language."

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:41 pm

MMMowSkwoz wrote:But I think anything else would risk suggesting that the player find a translator or something (when there isn't one).

Anyway, I think that there should be no random responses if you don't know the language. (In an RPG, character skill should > player skill, and for the unwitting character to be given a 1/3 chance of blagging a perfect sentence of Dunmeri is preposterous)

Multiple shots should therefore be allowed, but amount to nothing until you hit the required thingy.

One thing: "Recall" is blates not a Dunmer word.

Get one.

Anyway, I still hate this quest, so have nothing more to say.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:48 pm

MMMowSkwoz wrote:sounds a bit dodgy

A bit? That's positively horrible!

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:12 pm

Ok, any thoughts on whether beast races should be allowed to do the quest?

Could someone please make up a Dunmeri word for recall for me?

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:33 pm

Why should beast races be excluded? I can see three reasons:
1. They are required to wear a closed helm. This doesn't apply here.
2. They are required to wear boots. This doesn't apply either.
3. The Dunmer is too racist to speak to them. This should then also apply to other races, at least the Orcs but probably the Nords as well; and well, all non-Dunmer in fact.

As for a dunmeri word for Recall... Hmm, Nurahn.

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:35 am

Hm, it seems I need two more lines translated. Sorry about this. Could you do this Hemi, pretty please?

"Thank you, here is a reward for your troubles."

"Can you understand me outlander? I need your assistance."

These should be the last (as long as we don't change anything else).

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:33 am

See Above.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:42 am

TR_m1_Bacola Herennius00000000 Bal Oyra (18,23) 153949 196034 868 "Greeting says 'joind', rather than 'joined'"

ex_imp_wall_01 Bal Oyra (18,23) 153712 196267 592 "Gridsnap Seam"

ex_imp_wall_01 Firewatch (17,15) 143904 126464 800 "SEAM! Use Gridsnap"
Possibly these seams aren't very visible in the CS, but I could clearly see them in-game.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:53 am

Aeven wrote:ex_imp_wall_01 Bal Oyra (18,23) 153712 196267 592 "Gridsnap Seam"

It's rotated 45Ã‚Â°. Do not use gridsnap, it would only make the seams larger.

For your information, I had rebuilt the whole exterior castle orthogonally with gridsnap, and then rotated it entirely 45Ã‚Â°. It is simply not possible to get rid of those seams by moving the pieces.

What can be tried, however, is to hide them by putting a slightly downscaled wall within the wall. You just need to avoid texture bleeding.

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:54 am

Ok, that quest should finally be fixed. If anyone feels like giving it a really thorough playtest, that would be great - just reply here and I'll upload the file.

I think I'll leave the hyphens in Hemi, I actually quite like the look of it like that.

I've added that dialogue error to my list, but I'll leave world errors to the next fixer.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:15 am

Hey, Meeshka. Would it be too much trouble to make a few further quick changes to the Lost in Translation quest?

Basically, I think it would be a good idea to remove the Indoril link. I think it is unbelievable, and ultimately underwhelming that this guy is some high-ranked Indoril noble out here on important business just on his own, lurking in the middle of Port Telvannis.

I'd just change him to a wealthy merchant from somewhere traditional (Dres holdings?). So remove his Indoril rank and shirt, and either re-write, or just creatively 're-translate' his dialogue about being from Indoril.

Up to you, ultimately, but those are my thoughts.

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:02 am

Well, the only change to the dialogue would need to be this entry:

"I came here so House Telvanni would allow House Indoril to build temples in Telvanni territory, but they would not agree. I was to return to Almalexia via a scroll of recall, but it is gone. Will you find one for me?"

However, I think the point of this quest originally was to make the player more aware of House Indoril and the Dunmeri language. We could switch that around to being Dres if you'd prefer?

Something like:

"I am a merchant of House Dres. I came here to arrange the sale of a group of slaves and was to return to Tear via a scroll of recall. However, my scroll appears to have been lost. Will you find one for me?"

But that means Hemi has to translate it again... >.<

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:00 pm

Ok I put this one and all the rest into that orginal reply. I made alot of tweaks to what was there, but if it's too much trouble to implement, don't change them. It's not like the players are gonna know what the heck this guy is saying.

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:52 pm

Balls. I changed everything and then found out there is already a misc quest in Port Telvannis dealing with a Dres slave trader. He's now an Indoril merchant, but I need to come up with something for him to be trading. Any ideas?

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:56 pm

real estate? Maybe there's some small area in Map2 that is being disputed, so he's come to make a deal whereby both houses would split the land evenly.

Or maybe he's come to deliver a letter from the grand ascendant.

Or maybe this is regarding saltrice trade from Telvannis to Mournhold District, as Map3 doesn't have that mainly plantations.

Dealing with Tariff laws?

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:10 pm

It can't be too big a deal since he's alone in a fairly inhospitable region with no guards (I thought of adding guards, but too much of a hassle - why don't they need recall scrolls too, etc..). It should be fairly mundane. Buying saltrice sounds plausible - if no-one objects before tonight I'll change it so he's doing that.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:53 pm

An important part of House Dres is their many saltrice plantations. Why would they buy it from the Telvanni in preference?

Maybe it could be siltstriders or some insect product the Indoril want.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:55 pm

siltstiders will probably make the most sense.

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:09 pm

Sounds good to me. Siltstriders it is.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:17 am

Anda-se hleras-Gahn Dres. JorÃƒÂ³s-se hmero eneloth nerue-sasumas has airÃƒÂºs-se shorath meru Tear nesen hasal Nuhrath, shil karÃƒÂ¡s-hasalse. Ena-the asela?
["I am a merchant of House Dres. I came here to arrange the sale of a herd of siltstriders and was to return to Tear via a scroll of recall. However, my scroll appears to have been lost. Will you find one for me?"]

There you go. The original specifically used my word for slave which appears elsewhere, so I switched it up to a "herd of siltstriders"

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:05 am

accent aigu seulement, s'il vous plait

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:31 pm

Changed them to acute accents.

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:32 pm

Hemitheon wrote:Anda-se hleras-Gahn Dres. JorÃƒÂ³s-se hmero eneloth nerue-sasumas has airÃƒÂºs-se shorath meru Tear nesen hasal Nuhrath, shil karÃƒÂ¡s-hasalse. Ena-the asela?
["I am a merchant of House Dres. I came here to arrange the sale of a herd of siltstriders and was to return to Tear via a scroll of recall. However, my scroll appears to have been lost. Will you find one for me?"]

He's from House Indoril and is buying silt striders. I can just switch Dres for Indoril and Tear for Almalexia and it should be fine though, right?

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:52 pm

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:52 am

Here's an idea. Make it Almalexu in Dunmeri. Just fer fun.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:00 pm

That'd sound kinda Yoku. Now Alamesaath, on the other hand...

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:42 pm

just go real funky: Aymalasa

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:08 pm

okay it needs to be fucking similar seeing as Almalexia is the imperialization of her name and alma does mean something.

really i cant think of anything that could have been imperialized to almalexia except almalexu or something remarkably similar - almalex, almalaessa.

can i express my shock and surprise that, once again, the tiniest of changes receives argumentative response, even though i have rearranged entire maps without so much as a word from anyone? The [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_of_the_bikeshed]color of the bike shed[/url], indeed.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:35 am

Can I express my shock and surprise that you see these two (2) posts as an "argumentative response" as if it was some epic debate going on?

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:06 am

Now that I think of it. It doesn't seem prudent to give the city a Dunmer name, because that means that Almalexia's name is an imperialized form and we see in Dunmer books that this is not the case. Likewise, that would also mean that there are Dunmer equivolants of Vivec and Sotha Sil.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:47 am

Vivec is the anglicization of V'Vehk, which is not actually a name at all. Whatever the case, it is the Anglicization of Dunmeri names, as is the case with all names and all texts. It needs to be incredibly similar, so as to understand why it would be rendered as almalexia. hence, almalexu, or almalaessa.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:00 pm

Almalexeth.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:52 pm

Hemitheon wrote:Now that I think of it. It doesn't seem prudent to give the city a Dunmer name, because that means that Almalexia's name is an imperialized form and we see in Dunmer books that this is not the case. Likewise, that would also mean that there are Dunmer equivolants of Vivec and Sotha Sil.

Why does every vanilla NPC call her Almalexia? Even the name of the goddess you'll see in tribunal is Almalexia. I would recommend that you just leave it, unless this is meant for a few NPC's (ex. the npc's belonging the house indoril, but not hlaalu).
Or else it will lead to confusion and many questions of players.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:53 pm

This gets into some majorly intense philosophical debates about perception, audience, and postmodernism. But now that Sload has clarified, I agree with him. Just please don't use the 'x' it's like THE sci-fi signifier. It works in the name Almalexia because it flows so well. The capital's name should flow gracefully. I'd go for Almalaessa or Almalekhsyah. Whatever Sload says is find.

@ Blackbird,

As the player is by default an outlander, he/she is not familiar with Dunmer linguistics, so Bethesda Anglicized EVERYTHING, from the conversations to the books, which means not only translated texts, but anglicizing names with no clear equivalent. Thus X became Almalexia. V'Vehk became Vivec.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:15 am

god, isnt there a single thing we can just leave in? Almalexia sounds pretty, and there has never been any indication of her being called otherwise. imo its silly and irrelevant. cities were fine, but this is just renaming shit because we can (which really, we cant, being that its not lore. the imperials cant have butchered everything, and even if they did its a totally lame excuse.)

in other words, renaming alma gets a major thumbs down from me. if you want to change it in the dunmeri it can be attributed to the word undergoing a conjugation (or what ever its called when we do it to nouns).

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:24 am

Being a non-lore knowledgeable person I'll only say this from a typical players point of view.

Changing it would be stupid, IMO. Almalexia sounds nice and I've grown to like it. Is it really necessary to rename most everything in the mod...? Irrelevance is all over this stuff.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:31 am

Second'd. I can't believe people are even debating this. While we're at it, why don't we rename Vivec just to be consistent? Morrowind sounds kind of Anglicized, too; we should rename it back to Resdayn.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:05 am

Hey everyone, pay attention!

*clap clap*

Are you paying attention? Good! We're talking about a word in a line of dialog, this is not Name Dedefecation, the city itself is not changing. Its a tiny touch of character added to a line of dialog. It requires no great amount of attention. "Almalexu isn't that great. Any other ideas?" was an okay response. "OH MY GOD DONT CHANGE MY CITY" was not. Calm the fuck down.

Almalaessa it is. Anda-se hleras-Gahn Indoril. JorÃƒÂ³s-se hmero eneloth nerue-sasumas has airÃƒÂºs-se shorath meru Almalaessa nesen hasal Nuhrath, shil karÃƒÂ¡s-hasalse. Ena-the asela? it is.

Maybe if you could read, I wouldn't be so angry at you all the time?

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:39 pm

Huh, show's how much I pay attention.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:22 pm

Sload wrote:Hey everyone, pay attention!

*clap clap*

Are you paying attention? Good! We're talking about a word in a line of dialog, this is not Name Dedefecation, the city itself is not changing. Its a tiny touch of character added to a line of dialog. It requires no great amount of attention. "Almalexu isn't that great. Any other ideas?" was an okay response. "OH MY GOD DONT CHANGE MY CITY" was not. Calm the fuck down.

Almalaessa it is. Anda-se hleras-Gahn Indoril. JorÃƒÂ³s-se hmero eneloth nerue-sasumas has airÃƒÂºs-se shorath meru Almalaessa nesen hasal Nuhrath, shil karÃƒÂ¡s-hasalse. Ena-the asela? it is.

Maybe if you could read, I wouldn't be so angry at you all the time?

man, you really suck at reading my emotions. for the record, i covered this in the 2nd paragraph of my post.

also, im pretty sure that it doesnt really matter what we do, because youre going to find something to be angry at