Name Dedefecation

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:34 pm

My point was that every name for a city originally had a meaning; whether it's lost or not. I get your argument, though and it brought up a perfectly valid point that I didn't see before. Names of cities don't really have to be in Dunmeris; they could borrow from Argonian, Native Dunmeris, Cyrodiilic, or even Akaviri; making a Dunmeris dictionary helpful, but largely unnecessary.

Anyway, I do like the idea of saint-derived names.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:39 pm

Gez wrote:
Arthmodeus wrote:Names of cities always have meanings though. That's why they're named.
Other example, Paris. What does it mean? Nothing! The name is traced to a local tribe that was called the Parisii. Cool, so Paris means "city of the Parisii" -- but then, what does "Parisii" mean?

But what your missing is that (reguardless of what Parisii itself means) by naming the city/location after the tribe they HAVE given the name a meaning. The quote "city of the Parisii" gives meaning in that it is named for its founders. A pretty meaningful name if you ask me...

Does not "Bobville" gain meaning from the fact it was named for a guy called Bob who just so happened to found the town?

Ahh, what can i say, I'm in one of those philisophical moods

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:43 pm

[quote="Hemitheon"]We have Ayemar which is a ref to Ayem.[quote]

Please tell me that's not explained in dialog. Ayemar is a fine name as "whatever its just a name," but they do not call the Mother Lexia Ayem! V and Vehk does in the Sermons, but that's in the Sermons. She's not actually called Ayem by the Temple or people at large. Oh but good BC already knows this. Go BC!

As to your names which completely obscure the saints names with them, what is wrong with calling a town Saint Meris or Saint Olms?

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:46 pm

Well St. Olms is taken by the Canton of Vivec. But any other saint name would work, i second u on Saint Meris Sload.

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:52 pm

Sload wrote:what is wrong with calling a town Saint Meris or Saint Olms?

I think that might be slightly confusing, especially if there was a pilgrimage or shrine to that saint that someone had to visit for a quest. I also think a more subtle inclusion of a saint's name into the town name would sound better.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:52 pm

BTW its only okay for a hlaalu city and only once.

And that saint has to be:

-Not associated with another house (Veloth, Nerevar)
-Not associated with a canton (Olms, Delyn)
-Not the dude who died in the Arnesian War, cuz that was only 40 years ago
-Not Meris. I have her set up as the patron saint of Narsis. The idea was that Meris was a princess of the House Narsua, who went out among the poor of her city and healed them. The mountain Narsis is built around is called (in dialog I guess), Mount Meris, and I always wanted a statue of her in the high square, but I know thats difficult.

So whose left? I don't know the other saints.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:17 pm

Saint Felms, Saint Seryn (who was a guar, apparently), Saint Lothis, and a few more.

I vote Seryn. She doesn't get enough airtime IMO. And she's a guar.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:26 pm

dude shes a guar really

thats so sick how did i not know that

oaktown should be saint seryn okay ktnx

Arthmodeus informs me that he actually misread. He is actually mistaken. He has reinterpreted the passage and discovered the Truth- Saint Seryn is, unbeknownst to all until now, actually a guar.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:17 am

So would the word "Saint" be Dunmerified? Indos Meris? Indojo Meris? Or just plain Saint Meris

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:39 am

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:43 am

"Saint" is fine, they use it everywhere. "Lives of the Saint", "Shrine of Saint Whatever", "Saint Whatshisname Canton", and so on. Saint.

I don't like "indos" or "indojo" because it looks like you backformed it from "Indoril" which is just plain bad. Indoril wasn't a house of saints before the Tribunal's apotheosis, just one of the Great Houses, so there is no reason for it to be derived from a root for "saint".

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:46 am

Indo = blessed. indoranyon

But that's cool. St. Meris still sounds good

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:58 am

Seryn, Saint Seryn!!

Who, you should all be aware, is now, officially and in lore, a guar.

The thing about indo, btw, is that if thats from the dictionary, which as far as I know it has to be, Majra definitely backformed from Indoril.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:00 am

The MW stategy guide translates Indoranyon as 'Blessed Green Fields' or something to that degree, so it is official.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:25 am

oh. i can't imagine it being a coincidence. someone at some point decided blessed was part of the name indoril because they were cool with the temple, which is pretty dumb.

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:51 am

Okay first of all, I did actually say:

RelinQ wrote:I think it needs to be an all out, 1 word unique name like how 'Suran' is.

and Sload, your idea of Seryn could work well. I'm just wonder whether other saints would work better.

Im sort of between Seryn & Aralor atm.

Aralor sounds cool, but Seryn is more of a 'wholesame' name.
And I think Aralor might been associated with the Tribunal Temple, which would prove to be a 'No'

Seryn, by itself, is cool, but maybe sounds a bit solitary though.[/quote]

JoshthePirate · Post by **JoshthePirate** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:43 am

I agree with Sload. Seryn or Saint Seryn.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:47 am

Saint Seryn. Just Seryn is lame and not really apprpriately respectful.

sidenote: someone probably needs to re-write that gospel. I do not believe it is about a guar.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:48 am

What nonsense is this? How the heck is Seryn a guar?

From what I understood, the diseases she took upon herself mutated her form and she wound up looking like a hideous beast.

If you're talking about the saint image, then that image is HIGHLY subjective.

From my perspective, what you are viewing as the muzzle of a guar is in fact a necklace. The actual face is veiled with fringed ropes just to the left. Also, note the triangles over the heads of Saints Aralor and Roris. You'll see that the point is directed in the same direction as the head. The triangle over Seryn points in the opposite direction of your theoretical guar head. That is a clear deduction that demonstrates my theory of where Seryn's head actually is.

EDIT: Also focus more on her clothing. She appears to be wearing a cloak with a hood. In the saint image, the hood is down. Her robes would be WAY out there if she was wearing them in reverse, where that large gathering of fabric is just stuck in front like a 1980s prom dress.

THough Lives of the Saints does not clearly state Seryn's identity, it should be obvious from the other 10 that she is a Dunmer.

And if you still can't figure it. Her neck has been distended; her face has creases over it, and scarring under the eyes. Her hands have changed. Her clothes and veil are to cover up her ugliness.

See it here better:
http://www.imperial-library.info/gallery/mw_TAoM_p23.jpg

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:20 am

Hemitheon doesn't get it.

There are not many solid facts in TES; they are few and far between, and difficult to discover. But when one is happened upon, it is obviously correct and impossible to deny; solid facts in TES are self-evident truths.

So, of course, it was obvious to all of us when Arthmodeus said that St. Seryn was a guar that she was, in fact, a guar. There can be no denying it. Meditate on it, Hemitheon, look into yourself, and you will see, absolutely, that St. Seryn was a guar.

The idea that St. Seryn was a guar was placed into being by a power far greater than any of us, far greater than the person who wrote Lives of the Saints. The inimitable force of TRUTH acted through this writer, phrasing the sentence in such a way that someday, someone would misinterpret it as "Though a guar," instead of "Tough as a guar," and the TRUTH of St. Seryn's nature would be set free. In misreading that line, Arthmodeus has serendipitously discovered a secret but incontrovertible fact.

And so, St. Seryn is a guar. Any representation otherwise is anthropomorphism on the part of her reverent followers, all of whom could tell you in an instant that she is a guar, but a guar who walked like a mer, who could speak, and who healed the sick with her holy touch. Even now, in your doubt, you know that it is true.

St. Seryn is a guar. There is no way around it.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:28 am

Next question. Would this be common knowledge or would this or could this be a secret that player can learn through information digging. I don't see regular people knowing this fact. For one thing, if this was such acceptable information, why would Seryn be portrayed as hooded or veiled. Why not just show a guar on the shrines in all her glory? Obviously she was hidden for a reason.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:31 am

Sload wrote:Any representation otherwise is anthropomorphism on the part of her reverent followers, all of whom could tell you in an instant that she is a guar, but a guar who walked like a mer, who could speak, and who healed the sick with her holy touch.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:32 am

Sure its gnosis for part of the tribunal temple quest that'd be awesome cuz otherwise players will never notice it.

BTW house associations of the 11 saints from lives of saints:

Seryn and Meris were of House Hlaalu.

VÃƒÂ©loth and Felms were of House Redoran.

Rilms and Roris were of House Dres.

Nerevar, Olms, Delyn, and Llothis were of House Indoril.

Aralor was of no house. The Telvanni get none, Indoril gets twice as many as everyone else.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:35 am

That information for sure will need to be incorporated into the gospels.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:39 am

Not directly, I imagine, but if a city is named in Meris's Gospel, it should be Narsis. For Rilms, Silnim or Aldemmar or Tear. Just smaller hints.

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:58 am

I would be thinking probably Tear.

Anyway I guess St.Seryn is good.
Also, Earlier today I thought about towns with split names, like how one town is diveded in two by a river, and it named one thing on one side (XXXX), and another on the other (YYYY), but the end name is like "XXXX-YYYY"

So there is another idea to consider, assuming it hasnt been already.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:25 pm

From Til:
Saint Seryn

Saint Seryn the Merciful is the patron of Brewers, Bakers, and Distillers. This pure but less-than-handsome virgin could heal all diseases at the price of taking the disease upon herself. Tough as a guar, she lived to a ripe and sprightly old age.

Tough means hard, IIRC. Why should a guar being the saint of the brewers and distillers? Is she virgin because no sane dunmer fucks with guars?

If you would learn mercy and its fruits, follow Saint Seryn the Merciful, Patron of Brewers, Bakers, Distillers. This pure virgin of modest aspect could heal all diseases at the price of taking the disease upon herself. Tough-minded and fearless, she took on the burdens of others, and bore those burdens to an honored old age.

It's not clear what is meant with "she took the burdens of others", but I guess the disease transferred from the sick dunmer to saint seryn.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:26 pm

blackbird wrote:Tough means hard, IIRC. Why should a guar being the saint of the brewers and distillers?

Why not? Guars enjoy getting smashed.

blackbird wrote:Is she virgin because no sane dunmer fucks with guars?

Well yeah. I mean, she was too weird for the other guars, and for Dunmer it would just be embarrassing.

blackbird wrote:It's not clear what is meant with "she took the burdens of others"

Duh, pack guar.

People who were sick? They brought a little stone with them, you see? And then they put the stone in Seryn's bags. And by miracle the disease would stay with the stone, rather than with them, and they'd be healed.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:50 pm

If you overdo this, you kill it and make it lame beyond belief, and it's already pretty lame for me, but not enough to be worth getting prissy over. Just stop with the guar shit now, 'kay. Let us move on.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:05 pm

Just as long as you are not saying Seryn is anything other than a guar.

Seryn is a guar, that is final. Now we must move onto other things.

JoshthePirate · Post by **JoshthePirate** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:18 pm

"hard" = "hard liquor"

It fits. Just sayin.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:55 am

Regarding the Gospels:

Don't change any of them. Remember that to the truly educated Dunmers, the gospels are bullshit, fabricated by early temple founders to justify the Tribunal. Roris is the most recent and possibly the most true, however, it is tainted with bias and exaggeration. Thus, these temple writers anthropomorphed Seryn. Bottom line = The 11 Gospels are PURE LIES.

Even the scholars of the Telvanni Library tell the player not to believe the gospels. I mean think about it. Can you imagine Nerevar condemning Mephala?

Likewise, I bet a million septims that if you dug deep enough into the Tribunal's closet, you'd find numerous truths, such as Nerevar wasn't resurrected at Necrom as a bonelord, but someone in his place.

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:01 am

In regards to the valley of the shadow of death, why not just name it the 'Nadul' region. Or whatever valley is in Dunmeri. "Oh look, a traveler wants to visit the Nadul (aka "the Valleys"). good luck, traveler."

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:36 pm

I object to this plan for one reason: I don't want "nadul" to mean valley or anything else for that matter.

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:56 am

You could call it "Wilderness", LOL.

Anyway maybe a word that isnt valley is an option, as listed from thesaurus.com :

Main Entry: valley
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: hollow in the land
Synonyms: basin, bottom, canyon, channel, coulee, dale, dell, depression, dingle, glen, gorge, lowland, notch, plain, swale, trough, vale

and also these:

Main Entry: ravine
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: gap in earth's surface
Synonyms: abyss, arroyo, break, canyon, chasm, clove, coulee, crevasse, crevice, cut, defile, ditch, fissure, flume, gorge, gulch, gulf, gully, notch, pass, valley, wash

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:45 pm

Wasn't it already decided that the region would keep the Roth Rothryn name? (the region surrounding and including it?)

Post by **Haplo** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:33 pm

Gez wrote:I object to this plan for one reason: I don't want "nadul" to mean valley or anything else for that matter.

I don't care about using Nadul, just something.

rekuli · Post by **rekuli** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:46 pm

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:
Reich Parkeep is strange, but probably woudln't have made it this far without a reason.

(...)

Heimlyn Keep is a bit too much like Hamlyn and Heimlich combined for my tastes.

It's both from the ancient TES1 Tamriel maps and part of official lore.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote: Zanaseraborini obliges your voice get higher as you say it. Probably not a good effect.

just pronounce it ZANNA'SERRA'BORRINI, sort of like italian, then you keep the same pitch and tone.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:53 pm

rekuli wrote:
Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote: Reich Parkeep is strange, but probably woudln't have made it this far without a reason.
(...)
Heimlyn Keep is a bit too much like Hamlyn and Heimlich combined for my tastes.
It's both from the ancient TES1 Tamriel maps and part of official lore.

Read threads that you reply to in the future. By this I mean the lore tenants thread along with this one.

Jule · Post by **Jule** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:50 am

No matter what, there absolutely has to be a town in Morrowind called Juleis. I'm pretty fucking sure.