My (Evil Eye) Showcase Thread

[Evil Eye]

Hi, I decided to join up before my name was taken
So can I use this mod as my showcase?
[url]http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=978452[/url]
If so, here's my showcase!

Just for your information I won't really have time to do anything till the 13th of July (summer holiday) but I'd like to be able to start (almost) directly when my holiday starts so I'm posting 2 months in advance.

[Lady Nerevar]

it looks to be a fine showcase. its also good to post in advance, since quests tend to take a while to review

[David House]

looks nice.


Edit: Very.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

actually, we prefer that people make something specifically for us.

[Haplo]

It doesn't matter if what you are showcasing is made for us or not, as long as it is applicable, it works perfectly fine.

[Evil Eye]

In that case, enjoy dying!
Also the quest is pretty short. (since your companions tend to die)

[Evil Eye]

So I made a new version and posted some warnings in the thread.
[url]http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=978452[/url]
Guess I'm just insecure

EDIT: Sorry for double posting.

[Beave]

I just ran through the quest, and I must say it's very well-made. It fits in with the game almost seamlessly, and is good-quality. I must point out a few things, however:

-It might be a good idea to automatically teleport the PC to the island with Gadave, since he has a boat and it would make sense for him to take you there himself. Of course, Gadave should ask one final time before taking the PC, so that the PC can make any necessary preparations.

-Secondly, the constant shooting of arrows in the second-to-last floor (Halls of Death, I believe) is annoying, but I suppose there isn't much that can be done to get rid of it. You could perhaps make the arrows not shoot until the PC reaches that area, but I don't know if that would work.

-The final riddle door before the big pool of lava and the two walls of arrows (as mentioned above) should go down completely, or at least more than it does now, because it hinders the movement of the companions.

-At the beginning, if you ask about "looting a ruin" a second time, Gadave asks you the same question as before. Obviously, you should add an entry that will result after the question has already been asked.

That should be all for now. I think you are a pretty skilled scripter, as you seem to know what you're doing. Good luck with you're future work on this.

[Evil Eye]

I just ran through the quest, and I must say it's very well-made. It fits in with the game almost seamlessly, and is good-quality. I must point out a few things, however:

-It might be a good idea to automatically teleport the PC to the island with Gadave, since he has a boat and it would make sense for him to take you there himself. Of course, Gadave should ask one final time before taking the PC, so that the PC can make any necessary preparations.

Don't like swimming?
I could just teleport the player to the island, but that wouldn't take any time (and I'm not sure messing with the GameHour global is such a good idea), if I were to give him a travel function he'd act as guildguide (directly again), besides the boat isn't that big and you're lvl 20+ I bet you can water walk or levitate.

-Secondly, the constant shooting of arrows in the second-to-last floor (Halls of Death, I believe) is annoying, but I suppose there isn't much that can be done to get rid of it. You could perhaps make the arrows not shoot until the PC reaches that area, but I don't know if that would work.

I could remove the sound on those arrows.
Edit: I'll make it distance dependant.
Edit: I'll make all those sounds distance dependant.

-The final riddle door before the big pool of lava and the two walls of arrows (as mentioned above) should go down completely, or at least more than it does now, because it hinders the movement of the companions.

I'll move it a bit to the right, if it goes through entirely it looks weird 'cause there's no hole.

-At the beginning, if you ask about "looting a ruin" a second time, Gadave asks you the same question as before. Obviously, you should add an entry that will result after the question has already been asked.

That I did not know, will fix.

That should be all for now. I think you are a pretty skilled scripter, as you seem to know what you're doing. Good luck with you're future work on this.

Thanks.
Btw, did you find the skull made of gold?

Edit: Made some changes, lowered the arrow holes in the halls of death (they were way too high) they aren't aligned with the arrows though (mostly because there's 2 sets flying about), think I should (try to) align them, or add some?
Or should I just count on the darkness?

[Beave]

Btw, did you find the skull made of gold?

I did. Is it meant only for value and trapping the PC in the room (although I made it out with an acrobatics skill of 100) ?

think I should (try to) align them, or add some?
Or should I just count on the darkness?

Aligning them wouldn't be too hard, just tedious. You'll want to line up the X (or Y) positions of each pair of arrow slits via the object window.

For the riddle door issue, I like your idea much better. As for the boat/swimming thing, the swimming isn't a problem. I just think it would make more sense to go by boat since he has one handy. Oh, gotta go... I'll be back.

[Evil Eye]

Actually if you put the skull back the wall goes up again it's the trap of greed.
The arrow holes, the thing is the arrows are aligned like this:

Code: Select all

-
  -
-
  -

So I'd have to put double the amount of holes on the wall, that's why I was asking if anyone cares.

[Beave]

You'd might as well just align them. I think more arrow slits would be a bit extraneous. About the gold skull, I did put it back and watch the wall go back down; that's a good trap. As I was saying before... why do you think the GameHour global shouldn't be messed with? You're just fast-forwarding time a couple hours... I doubt it will mess up anything. Besides that, if you think just traveling by boat is too easy, you could modify the dialogue entry so that Gadave tells the PC to meet him at a specified time somewhere, and if the PC is late, well, he/she missed the boat, and will have to swim to the ruin. That might be an interesting way to start, and of course there are different ways the situation could vary, but I don't want to make it too easy for you; that defeats the purpose of the showcase.

Edit: One other point I forgot mentioning - the shrine servant's greeting (right before the big battle in the shrine) could be improved, in my opinion.

[Evil Eye]

You'd might as well just align them. I think more arrow slits would be a bit extraneous. About the gold skull, I did put it back and watch the wall go back down; that's a good trap. As I was saying before... why do you think the GameHour global shouldn't be messed with? You're just fast-forwarding time a couple hours... I doubt it will mess up anything. Besides that, if you think just traveling by boat is too easy, you could modify the dialogue entry so that Gadave tells the PC to meet him at a specified time somewhere, and if the PC is late, well, he/she missed the boat, and will have to swim to the ruin. That might be an interesting way to start, and of course there are different ways the situation could vary, but I don't want to make it too easy for you; that defeats the purpose of the showcase.

Well I'm not sure about GameHour, it's just that it might have side effects and if you observe the script "EE_DarkRobe_blessings" you'll notice that I hate conflicts.
I'll think of something then.

Edit: One other point I forgot mentioning - the shrine servant's greeting (right before the big battle in the shrine) could be improved, in my opinion.

I know, I was hoping someone could voice it for me.

[Beave]

By the greeting I meant the dialogue entry itself could be improved; it just doesn't seem to fit well. And if GameHour is too risky (although it's still worth trying first), you could always just not change the global, make it seem like Gadave and the PC both paddled together and got there in 30 minutes or something.

[Evil Eye]

By the greeting I meant the dialogue entry itself could be improved; it just doesn't seem to fit well.

Oh... I'll write something better, it was the crappiest part of the mod anyway.
Edit: How 'bout this?
Hehe... Right in the trap, the cat in the hole of the mouse... You wanted a robe, but instead of skinning your local Khajiit you came here. But lord Sheogorath doesn't like people who want his robe, maybe if you had given him some yarn... But now it's to late you are all going to die, for our lord requires more servants!

And if GameHour is too risky (although it's still worth trying first), you could always just not change the global, make it seem like Gadave and the PC both paddled together and got there in 30 minutes or something.

Maybe I'll make it realtime
I pretty much fixed the arrows though.

[Beave]

The new text is definitely better, just make it a bit more grammatically correct. Here's what I'm thinking:

Hehe... Right into the trap, the mouse in the lair of the cat... You wanted a robe, yet instead of skinning a Khajiit you came here. But Lord Sheogorath doesn't like people who want to take his robe; maybe if you had given him some yarn... but now it's too late. Our Lord requires more servants!

Not sure about the last sentence, though. After all, they are trying to kill you, so unless people somehow serve Sheogorath in the afterlife, it doesn't make much sense.

[jonarus_drakus]

Its Sheogorath, it doesn't have to make sense

[Evil Eye]

Its Sheogorath, it doesn't have to make sense

That was indeed what I was going for

And if you die Sheogorath may pull you into the Isles right?

[Beave]

Its Sheogorath, it doesn't have to make sense

To me it doesn't make much sense, even for Sheogorath. It just doesn't sound like him or his servants.

And if you die Sheogorath may pull you into the Isles right?

I doubt it. I've played through Shivering Isles and I don't think there were any souls imprisoned to an eternity of servitude, but you'd have to look it up in lore.

[Evil Eye]

Its Sheogorath, it doesn't have to make sense

To me it doesn't make much sense, even for Sheogorath. It just doesn't sound like him or his servants.

And if you die Sheogorath may pull you into the Isles right?

I doubt it. I've played through Shivering Isles and I don't think there were any souls imprisoned to an eternity of servitude, but you'd have to look it up in lore.

Haskill doesn't seem to like his job all that much.

[Beave]

Haskill probably came through the portal like everyone else and made it to Sheogorath, where he became the right-hand man. His personality suggests that the Isles may have turned him into the boring person he is.

[Evil Eye]

Haskill probably came through the portal like everyone else and made it to Sheogorath, where he became the right-hand man. His personality suggests that the Isles may have turned him into the boring person he is.

And the Immortals, they "died" didn't they?

How about this:
Welcome to the shrine of the Madgod, the Prince of Madness, Sheogorath. It's too late to sacrifice yarn now, you are all going to die, and die again if our Lord so desires it!

[Beave]

The Ascended Immortals? That's Mankar Cameron, not Mehrunes Dagon.

The new text is also good; again, needs conventional tweaking and split into two sentences.

[Evil Eye]

The Ascended Immortals? That's Mankar Cameron, not Mehrunes Dagon.

I know, but if he can do so can Sheogorath, right?
I mean, he also made his own realm...

Edit: I'll be in Slovenia till saturday, feel free to post just don't expect an answer.

[Beave]

Like I said, it would be best to look it up in lore. Go to the Imperial Library or something.

[MMMowSkwoz]

Hi, sorry this has been sitting here so long. Just posting to say I've started a review of this (for quests and scripting), but it's so damn massive I haven't quite finished yet. I'm away the rest of this weekend but should be able to get you some feedback by Monday.

[Evil Eye]

Hi, sorry this has been sitting here so long. Just posting to say I've started a review of this (for quests and scripting), but it's so damn massive I haven't quite finished yet. I'm away the rest of this weekend but should be able to get you some feedback by Monday.

Don't worry about it I wasn't here this week
Do you mind swimming?

@Beave, I looked at the library, it said Dagon could do it, not that it matters anymore...

[MMMowSkwoz]

Hi,

Sorry for the delay. I still haven't managed to review everything and this was an in-CS only review (I'll trust Beave that nothing was broken when he played it, and I certainly can't see anything that would cause issues).

First off, you're clearly a very competent scripter. You've used a wide variety of functions to do some pretty complicated stuff and your scripts are well arranged and efficient. The only thing I found was that if you were a beast race, you end up carrying around a disabled robe for the rest of the game (with script running)? Fairly minor, and I could be wrong.

However, I have two main concerns:

1) You use far more global variables and global scripts running from start than would be allowed for a TR quest. Something would really need it to justify a global variable and we almost never use global scripts running from start just because of the sheer size of the project. It's great that you know how to use them all, but you have to watch performance with TR stuff. I just thought I'd let you know.

2) There's relatively little dialogue in your mod and some of it is a little too un-vanilla. TR tries to stay as close as possible to the feel of the original game, so it's important to be able to write dialogue that fits with this. Here are my notes:

- A few typos, nothing big
- Some dialogue in greetings that could have been in a topic (Since TR is so big, the greetings sections get very full)
- Greeting 5 - "Hi, you must be %PCName, I'm %Name, shall we go?" entry unnecessariy repeated
- loot a ruin - unnecessary filters - 4th and 5th entries are filtered for EE_DarkRobe_walk==0 and their respective choice values, but the question entry already had that filter, so later filters aren't necessary.
- Dialogue style is too informal - don't use 'Hi'
- Don't use line breaks in dialogue.
- The Greeting 5 entries "Thank you, here's your pay. Now lets get out." and "I see you have the robe, give it to me." do not need to be duplicated (just use "if, else" in the results box for the different results)

Obviously I'm not going to ask you to submit a 'corrected' version, but I would like to see some more dialogue before I recommend you. A short dialogue-only quest would be sufficient, don't bother including any complex scripting or interior/exterior work (unless you really want to). It's just to show you can make the more ordinary vanilla-esque quests as well as the big impressive stuff

[Evil Eye]

Hi,

Sorry for the delay. I still haven't managed to review everything and this was an in-CS only review (I'll trust Beave that nothing was broken when he played it, and I certainly can't see anything that would cause issues).

First off, you're clearly a very competent scripter. You've used a wide variety of functions to do some pretty complicated stuff and your scripts are well arranged and efficient. The only thing I found was that if you were a beast race, you end up carrying around a disabled robe for the rest of the game (with script running)? Fairly minor, and I could be wrong.

Thank you.

However, I have two main concerns:

1) You use far more global variables and global scripts running from start than would be allowed for a TR quest. Something would really need it to justify a global variable and we almost never use global scripts running from start just because of the sheer size of the project. It's great that you know how to use them all, but you have to watch performance with TR stuff. I just thought I'd let you know.

I just like global scripts, they can be so easy... But I wasn't planning on using them for TR unless necessary, though.

2) There's relatively little dialogue in your mod and some of it is a little too un-vanilla. TR tries to stay as close as possible to the feel of the original game, so it's important to be able to write dialogue that fits with this. Here are my notes:

- A few typos, nothing big

Could you point them out please?

- Some dialogue in greetings that could have been in a topic (Since TR is so big, the greetings sections get very full)

Will keep in mind

- Greeting 5 - "Hi, you must be %PCName, I'm %Name, shall we go?" entry unnecessariy repeated

Didn't I use the talkedtoPc thing? Yes I did... Why is it repeated then?

- loot a ruin - unnecessary filters - 4th and 5th entries are filtered for EE_DarkRobe_walk==0 and their respective choice values, but the question entry already had that filter, so later filters aren't necessary.

I think I just copied those so I already had all the checks

- Dialogue style is too informal - don't use 'Hi'
- Don't use line breaks in dialogue.
- The Greeting 5 entries "Thank you, here's your pay. Now lets get out." and "I see you have the robe, give it to me." do not need to be duplicated (just use "if, else" in the results box for the different results)

ok, what did I do?, How would I do that for the "I see you've got it"?

Obviously I'm not going to ask you to submit a 'corrected' version, but I would like to see some more dialogue before I recommend you. A short dialogue-only quest would be sufficient, don't bother including any complex scripting or interior/exterior work (unless you really want to). It's just to show you can make the more ordinary vanilla-esque quests as well as the big impressive stuff

Something like a long monologue or quiz?:)

I was going to release a new version sometime anyway.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

A monologue might be perhaps too easy. I think what would serve our needs best is just a quick fetch/kill quest with some somewhat more complex dialogue? But something with a bit of dialogue for us to chew on.

That sounds like the kind of thing that would be necessary from MowSkwoz's report.

I suggest that you make it a small quest based in TR lands, or on Vvardenfell, just so that we don't have to worry about which .esps and stuff to use.

[Evil Eye]

Ok will get started tomorrow cuz I've done too much already today (just wanted to type tomorrowind).
Good night!

[Evil Eye]

OK made a little dialogue mod, yay!, enjoy it's simplicity!

Also as a beast race you don't carry the robe with you it's simply left on the rock-thing (disabled so you can't see it, though)

[MMMowSkwoz]

Just to address your previous questions:

Typos:
Sorry, I didn't write them down. I had another glance and all I found was the word after shouldn't have been capitalised in "Ah, you're here. The entrance is over there, After you." This isn't a problem at all. Everyone makes small errors when writing a lot of dialogue. As long as it's not a persistent problem, which it clearly isn't in your case, it's fine.

"Hi, you must be %PCName, I'm %Name, shall we go?":
I mean you have two entries when you only need one. You can remove the upper of the two since it is the same entry with more filters.

"I see you have the robe, give it to me." / "Thank you, here's your pay. Now lets get out.":
Yes, my bad. I didn't notice the "_bst" suffix on the 2nd "I see you have the robe, give it to me.". But you understand the other one, right? You can have a single "Thank you, here's your pay. Now lets get out." entry filtered for Choice >= 1 and have the following in the results box:

Code: Select all

player->Additem, "Gold_001", 10000
if ( player->GetItemCount "EE_DarkRobe" > 0 )
	player->RemoveItem "EE_DarkRobe" 1
	AddItem "EE_DarkRobe" 1
else
	player->RemoveItem "EE_DarkRobe_bst" 1
	AddItem "EE_DarkRobe_bst" 1
endif

I'll take a look at your new file soon.

[Evil Eye]

Just to address your previous questions:

Typos:
Sorry, I didn't write them down. I had another glance and all I found was the word after shouldn't have been capitalised in "Ah, you're here. The entrance is over there, After you." This isn't a problem at all. Everyone makes small errors when writing a lot of dialogue. As long as it's not a persistent problem, which it clearly isn't in your case, it's fine.

Will start rereading soon, thanks.

"Hi, you must be %PCName, I'm %Name, shall we go?":
I mean you have two entries when you only need one. You can remove the upper of the two since it is the same entry with more filters.

No I can't, Cindaia doesn't have the variable, I know she never says the dialogue. I'll fix that in the next version.

"I see you have the robe, give it to me." / "Thank you, here's your pay. Now lets get out.":
Yes, my bad. I didn't notice the "_bst" suffix on the 2nd "I see you have the robe, give it to me.". But you understand the other one, right? You can have a single "Thank you, here's your pay. Now lets get out." entry filtered for Choice >= 1 and have the following in the results box:

Code: Select all

player->Additem, "Gold_001", 10000
if ( player->GetItemCount "EE_DarkRobe" > 0 )
	player->RemoveItem "EE_DarkRobe" 1
	AddItem "EE_DarkRobe" 1
else
	player->RemoveItem "EE_DarkRobe_bst" 1
	AddItem "EE_DarkRobe_bst" 1
endif

I'll take a look at your new file soon.

Ok, yeah I got that, I'm not sure why I split it but I think I'll join them in v1.5 again.

[Stryker]

You're dialogue looks good now. The only problem I have is the phrase "a hunk of rat meat"... Which doesn't particularly fit into the feel of Morrowind, in my opinion.

There seems to be no option to refuse the quest, which usually isn't good for TR quests. So do remember to always, or at least most of the time, add that option.

I noticed your file is still pretty dirty, it has several GMSTs in it. These should also be cleaned out as well. Considering your older file is clean it doesn't bother me so much. Just remember to keep checking this right before uploading a file for TR.

And onto another question, do you have Bloodmoon? Questers are required to have both expansion sets. If you do then I recommend for promotion in AI/Quests. Just keep the feel of dialogue in mind when creating TR quests and you should be good to go.

[Evil Eye]

You're dialogue looks good now. The only problem I have is the phrase "a hunk of rat meat"... Which doesn't particularly fit into the feel of Morrowind, in my opinion.

It doesn't? I seem to remember "Corprus Meat Hunks"

There seems to be no option to refuse the quest, which usually isn't good for TR quests. So do remember to always, or at least most of the time, add that option.

She asks you to do it, you can say no...

I noticed your file is still pretty dirty, it has several GMSTs in it. These should also be cleaned out as well. Considering your older file is clean it doesn't bother me so much. Just remember to keep checking this right before uploading a file for TR.

Thought I removed them, oh well... No GMST when working on TR 'cause of the expansions.

And onto another question, do you have Bloodmoon? Questers are required to have both expansion sets. If you do then I recommend for promotion in AI/Quests. Just keep the feel of dialogue in mind when creating TR quests and you should be good to go.

How would I've made a file dependant on TR if didn't have Bloodmoon?
I've got GotY PC, doesn't get any better now does it?

Thanks for reviewing.

[Stryker]

It doesn't? I seem to remember "Corprus Meat Hunks"

I just happen to randomly not think "meat hunks" fits in with Morrowind dialogue. But I guess if Bethesda had it in its okay...

She asks you to do it, you can say no...

I obviously fail at properly explaining. You give the journal entry before the option to refuse the quest. This usually isn't good as it clutters the up the players journal with unnecessary journal updates. Usually give the first journal update after the player actually accepts it.

How would I've made a file dependant on TR if didn't have Bloodmoon?

I did not even know you had any file dependent on TR. The one I reviewed only needed morrowind.esp, so I was simply making sure. Sorry 'bout that.

[Evil Eye]

It doesn't? I seem to remember "Corprus Meat Hunks"

I just happen to randomly not think "meat hunks" fits in with Morrowind dialogue. But I guess if Bethesda had it in its okay...

She asks you to do it, you can say no...

I obviously fail at properly explaining. You give the journal entry before the option to refuse the quest. This usually isn't good as it clutters the up the players journal with unnecessary journal updates. Usually give the first journal update after the player actually accepts it.

Did I? Well... Oops!

How would I've made a file dependant on TR if didn't have Bloodmoon?

I did not even know you had any file dependent on TR. The one I reviewed only needed morrowind.esp, so I was simply making sure. Sorry 'bout that.

It's Dark Robe v1.?a for TR, 'cause I accidentally cut into an island

[Haplo]

Member Promoted for quest work. Congratulations, and welcome to the team Evil Eye.

[Beave]

Welcome to the team, Evil Eye. Have fun making quests.