Exterior Mod question

JoshthePirate · Post by **JoshthePirate** » Mon May 04, 2009 7:46 am

So I'm making a mod. My first mod. It's crappy. Even so...

I'm trying to make an island, not on the main map. I can't figure out how to do this other than raising an island in one of the "wilderness" cells, but I'd prefer that it was inaccessible except through door teleportation. How do I go about doing this? I read the Exterior Mod Tutorial a few times, and as far as I can tell it doesn't cover new maps. I'm sure there are tutorials out there for this, but I can't seem to find them.

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:10 am

You cant make islands anywhere else except on the main map. Islands are exterior, you cant make them in interior cells.

If your trying to make a new map completly, well then just open up the construction set and dont load anything.

As for making an island in an exterior,
Making an Island: Open the landscaping tool, and make sure you can see the red editing circle, then click on the spot you want to raise and then drag it up, you may need to do this alot before you can see it.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Mon May 04, 2009 5:51 pm

RelinQ wrote: Making an Island: Open the landscaping tool, and make sure you can see the red editing circle, then click on the spot you want to raise and then drag it up, you may need to do this alot before you can see it.

Or go the preference settings menu and change land sensitivity to a high value.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Mon May 04, 2009 9:04 pm

If your trying to make a new map completly, well then just open up the construction set and dont load anything.

How would you get to it in game?

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Mon May 04, 2009 9:33 pm

with the "COC yourcellname" console function for testing purposes. Adding a ship or teleport system can be added later as well.

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Tue May 05, 2009 3:08 am

blackbird wrote:Or go the preference settings menu and change land sensivity to a hihg value.

Yeah thats true, in this circumstance its okay, although quite a few of us (exterior Modders) prefer not to touch that, best left at some value I cant remember.

Btw Blackbird, what do you set your Land Sensitivity to normally?

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Tue May 05, 2009 4:42 pm

jonarus_drakus wrote:with the "COC yourcellname" console function for testing purposes. Adding a ship or teleport system can be added later as well.

No. Please read the thread clearly before responding - I know that can be difficult.

You'd have to add a chargen phase of your own and then load the game with only that plugin activated. There's absolutely no reason to do this, because all models and textures are no longer in the CS and its beyond the OP's technical expertise to add them. It really obviously isn't the answer to this person's question and shouldn't have been brought up in the first place.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Tue May 05, 2009 4:57 pm

sigh... sload, take your own medicine, my coment was a direct respons to the one imediate before it where Yeti asked "How would u get to it in game"

That said i stand by my suggestion. I will agree however, that if joshthepirate is atempting to make a new world NOT CONECTED TO TAMRIEL then a char-gen sequence .esp would be neccisary. Going by his origional post where he said that he wanted it to be accessable via "door teleportation" this is not the case. Teleportation by door/magic portal or transportation by ship/other transoprt being something that could be included in the mod itself instead of require a seperate though dependent .esp

JoshthePirate · Post by **JoshthePirate** » Tue May 05, 2009 6:53 pm

So if I save my plugin after raising the land without loading any files, THEN load files, including my save, will it be on the map?

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Tue May 05, 2009 7:16 pm

this is what happens when people who don't know what they are talking about try to answer a simple question.

There is no way to get an island that is inaccessible from the vvard, the closest thing you can get to this is placing it WAAAAAAAAAY off in some random direction, so much that it isn't visible on the normal map. If you want it visible on the map, then people will just swim to it. Also, with the various tools and patches, placing it off the normal map becomes more of an inconvenience than a hindrance as people will still be able to see it.

As for making a plugin without loading any master files, you will have to manually add every single item to the game, and program in a chargen sequence to even be able to walk around. COC-ing is worthless as all of your saved games will not work. So starting from scratch is NOT something you want to do. Jonarus, Sload was right and you should have thought about it a little bit more before taking any sort of tone.

Back on the subject at hand, its a sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing. But all in all, if you don't mind it not being on a normal map, then I would place it WAAAAAAAAAY the hell north.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Tue May 05, 2009 7:43 pm

> shrugs shoulders < Perhaps i do get a little deffensive when what i say is questioned...
This is what i get for trying to cross over from Oblivion to Morrowind i guess. If i'm wrong then I'm wrong, so be it.
The only thing i feel i need to point out is that i only suggested the 'COC' function be used for testing purposes, and not in game.
That said I'll deffer to the judgement of those who are more in-touch with the indiosyncracies of the Morrowind CS.

JoshthePirate · Post by **JoshthePirate** » Tue May 05, 2009 7:54 pm

Hmm... Instead of that, would it be too much of a strain for the game to handle if I just pieced together a whole lot of rocks? Made them double-sized and everything?

Edit: I mean for an interior cell. I'd make it roughly Balmora-sized.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Tue May 05, 2009 7:56 pm

you can't test something if you have no way to get in game. If you don't have a chargen you can't start a new guy, and if you change the master files, you can't load a save. Therefore, COC is not usable.

also, you meant idiosyncrasies

edit: ninja'd:
Well, that wouldn't show up on the map, but it wouldn't look very good, or be a flat surface. Piecing together twice as many normal or only slightly resized rocks would at least look better. What exactly do you want to be on this island?

JoshthePirate · Post by **JoshthePirate** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:11 pm

You ninja'd me as well. I'm planning on making Valhalla. It'll be basically a battlefield and a big meadhall on a hill overlooking it. I'll actually name it the Nord version, but I can't think of it right now.

It'll basically be a small side quest thing. You'll meet a character, he'll give you some sort of trophy for saving him from a nix-hound, or other pitiful opponent. (diamond or something else small, uniquely named.) It'll be scripted to teleport you just as you die to the island, but will play the death-scene if possible. If you try and divine intervention, you'll go straight to Vivec, who's hanging out in the mead-hall. Divine intervention will take you to Tiber Septim, who'll be somewhere in the island as well. The quest-line will be a really simple "No, you can't ever get back to life. Why would you want to?" "Oh wait, you really want to." "Hmm. Well, defeat everyone, and I'll think about it."

Annnd that's pretty much all I have for now.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:18 pm

i'd go with an interior cell that acts as an exterior, using some sort of large objects as land. i'd model a very basic island actually, but i dont know how much you know about that sort of thing.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:18 pm

Ahh, now i see whats happened here... I assumed that Josh's island would be built with Morrowind.esm active, thus allowing him to enter the game in the normal fashion and 'travel' to his island from that point...

If this is the case then once ingame COC should work (assuming of course the COC function works the same way in morrowind as it does in oblivon).

If it is not the case, then i am wrong on all counts... Is this where the 'master files' coment come in Thig? I'm admitadly a little confused on this point as (to me) it is unclear as to wether Josh is trying to make his island to be independent of the Morrowind.esm or not...

EDIT: Going by his last post it seems Josh intends this to be an Add-on to the Morrowind.esm as i had thought, in which case the above question is resolved (with all that is implied as a result).

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:24 pm

He wants it as an addon/plugin. Getting the player to the cell would a involve some fairly simple scripting and isn't the problem. The problem is creating a seperate worldspace for Valhalla because he doesn't want people to be able to swim to the afterlife.

Morrowind cannot have multiple worldspaces. The best you can do is create an interior cell like several people have suggested. Have it act like an exterior and you'll have to bodge various things just like in Mournhold. If Valhalla had walls and could be split into several smaller sections, that would make your life a lot easier.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:32 pm

the only comments made before he explained what his mod were suggested it would be a standalone thingy, but that is because RelinQ thought it would be a good idea to suggest he start from scratch.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:37 pm

jonarus_drakus wrote:Perhaps i do get a little deffensive when what i say is questioned...

If you don't want to be questioned, don't answer a question unless you know the answer. You didn't even understand the question - Yeti was responding to RelinQ's imbecilic suggestion that the OP could, if he so chose, start modding without any .esms loaded. I am familiar with the Oblivion construction set. "Open up the construction set and dont load anything" means the same thing in Oblivion as it does in Morrowind. The issue is not your imprudent decision to answer a question on an engine you are unfamiliar with, it was your witless decision to respond by rote, without fully considering the question, using only basal nerves of your brain stem and spinal collumn to type away wildly, blissfully unaware of the actual nature of the conversation into which you have injudiciously inserted yourself.

Also, a word of advice: don't be an ass to an asshole.

---

To all of you still confused, and I know there are several of you out there, please go back and read Yeti's post to which jonarus replied 5 times, focusing especially on the quote to which he was specifically replying. If you had read the post in the first place before wetting yourself with excitement because you found an opportunity to insert your valueless opinion, there would be no sidetracking confusion in this thread, or is literacy too high a standard for this community?

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:10 pm

if you make an interior using any interior pieces and check the "act as exsterior" box then basically the roof is replaced with the sky right? I too might be interested in makeing something like this in the future, so what interior pieces would work the best in this regard, besides the Mournhold ones.

Also, a word of advice: don't be an ass to an asshole.

Great advise Sload

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:17 pm

[quote="Sload]
If you don't want to be questioned, don't answer a question unless you know the answer. You didn't even understand the question - Yeti was responding to RelinQ's imbecilic suggestion that the OP could, if he so chose, start modding without any .esms loaded. [/quote]

AHHHH!... crap... your right... That was a big miss on my part. With an level of Inteligence like mine it is especialy embaressing, must be all the self imposed sleep deprivation...

[quote="Sload]
Also, a word of advice: don't be an ass to an asshole. [/quote]

Wheres the fun in that?

I love arguing with assholes (like myself) because they very rarely know when to quit (either due to ego or not being smart enough to realise).

PS: Yes i do hold my level of inteligence to a VERY high standard, comes from years of having qualified professionals tell me so. Of course, as should be obvious, i can admit when i am wrong... so there!

OK BACK TO THE POINT AT HAND:
I agree that some sort of 'interior that thinks its an exterior' dummy cell is the only way to go about this. However i havn't had any experience with this so asside stating my opinion in agreement of the suggested fix i fully intend, from this point on the perform a tatctical withdrawl from this thread. Please note that my exit stratagy does include leaving booby traps to prevent pursuit...

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:24 pm

RelinQ wrote:
blackbird wrote:Or go the preference settings menu and change land sensivity to a hihg value.
Yeah thats true, in this circumstance its okay, although quite a few of us (exterior Modders) prefer not to touch that, best left at some value I cant remember.

Btw Blackbird, what do you set your Land Sensitivity to normally?

Just 1.00, the default value.

JoshthePirate · Post by **JoshthePirate** » Thu May 07, 2009 5:48 am

I feel like I asked this earlier, but i can't find it on the thread. Maybe I typed it and didn't submit... How many objects can I place before the game starts to bog down? I know that 150 is the exterior goal for trees and rocks and such, but if I place twice that in ground structure before I even get to landscaping, is it going to lag?

Also, how many NPCs can I safely insert to the battlefield? They'll all be fighting, probably a decent amount of spells flying back and forth.

Faalen · Post by **Faalen** » Thu May 07, 2009 1:44 pm

The lag a player experiences depends entirely on that player's computer hardware. On some computers, 100 refs will lag while on others 1500 won't even make a dent in the framerate. As long as the number is not unreasonably large, you'll be doing the best you can for as many people as possible.

The bigger concern here is large-scale battles. Morrowind's engine was never designed with epic battles in mind. It's very unruly to get AI working well on that scale, and any more than a modest handful of NPCs doing independent and complex things is almost definitely going to cause trouble. Just like with refs, how many NPCs will cause lag is dependent on the player's system, but the ceiling is always much lower for NPCs.

JoshthePirate · Post by **JoshthePirate** » Mon May 11, 2009 4:04 am

Okay, thanks all.

Nanu · Post by **Nanu** » Mon May 11, 2009 10:47 pm

This thread made me laugh. Good game, guys.