Don Bernardo's Music

Don Bernardo · Post by **Don Bernardo** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:59 pm

So here's where I'll put any new music I make. When I get a chance I hope also to fix up some of the stuff in my [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=21167]showcase[/url]. Comments/criticisms always welcome. Enjoy!

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:45 am

Hey sorry I didn't notice your new thread last time I went on: I like this piece, but I feel that its leaning more on the explore side than the town side, especially from :50 onward. Town tracks need more interest IMO. Buts its a really good work nonetheless.

I feel like the material before :35 doesn't have enough relation to the piece. Its a nice introduction that could take the piece either way (town or explore) but then from about :35 onward its almost like another piece. Even though this material does return very nicely at 2:05 the start still feels a little out of place. Perhaps its just the transition, because when it returns later on the transition is really good, really well done.

May I ask what note is that that the french horn plays at 1:05? (the high one).

The end is really good - it would crossover really well into the next piece, whatever that may be.

Don Bernardo · Post by **Don Bernardo** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:45 am

Thanks, yeah I was pleased with the ending too! I think on the whole it still feels more "town" than "explore", but that's me.

I think the note is an F. Are you now going to tell me that that's not in the acceptable horn range, Mr. Brass Man?

Naw, it can be changed.

Hmmm, yeah, I feel the same about :35, I think it is the transition, especially since there's quite a large change in instrumentation at that point. I will try to include pre-35 instruments more after that point and vice-versa, see if that feels any better.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:40 am

This sounds good then.

An F is ok... but you must realise that this is the highest note a pro horn player can play - its rather difficult. There are many octaves the horn can play which you haven't explored yet, I'd say keep exploring.

This is also the problem with midi sounds. It makes the brass sound really crap (especially trumpets!). And even if they are quality sounds, the lower registers suffer. It saddens me greatly when I think of it and its very hard to work around on the computer.

wogya · Post by **wogya** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:54 am

Jedak wrote:An F is ok... but you must realise that this is the highest note a pro horn player can play - its rather difficult.

Pros can usually go way beyond F, I've heard playing up to Bb a fourth above. The Sibelius preset pro-ranges are quite on the safe side for most instruments. But you are right that F is not very easy on the horn and you shouldn't go above that unless you know who you're writing for and what this player is capable of.

Don Bernardo · Post by **Don Bernardo** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:06 pm

This is also the problem with midi sounds. It makes the brass sound really crap (especially trumpets!). And even if they are quality sounds, the lower registers suffer. It saddens me greatly when I think of it and its very hard to work around on the computer.

Yeah, I know what you mean, you really have to pick and choose your instruments with midi.

But you are right that F is not very easy on the horn and you shouldn't go above that unless you know who you're writing for and what this player is capable of.

Alright, thanks for that then guys. I'll be sure to keep this range in mind.

Got some work done today! I posted two new tracks and made some minor alterations to the beginning of "Gateway".

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:53 am

@ Wogya: I can get a C above the F on the horn I got at home, but thats besides the point... being a trumpet player this is easy for me.

Generally I find that when horn players see a high C (Concert F) and they freak out.

@ Don Bernado: Will have a look at this soonish - but just for the record, don't pile up all your music on one thread. This make the forum really lag sometimes. If you want all your music to be easily acsessible, zip the lot into one file and post that up top. Otherwise, all new music should go in a appropriate new post.

Don Bernardo · Post by **Don Bernardo** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:55 pm

Gotcha.

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:17 am

Really good work Don your being really prolific.

No way out: The moment I hit 'play' a shiver went down my spine. Freaky stuff. My only regret is that it seems to be a little over-done to be dungeon music. It needs to be more subtle, and have a more natural sound. Especailly toward the end the sound seems to be a bit synthier.

On the other hand, Quagmire looks like a much greater possibility here...

The Hunt: Hmm... I like it, but it doesn't blend. Its very well written. The only region I can imagine this for would be the Helkori, but I envisioned them to be a calmer place.

Have a look at my old music thread and have a clicky on 'Plains of the Raga'.

I think you did a little too much on this one as well, its a bit to exiting to be an explore track, and not quite the mood for a civilisation piece. I love the drum ostinato, but perhaps its too exiting. If you want to drop it out, don't delete this! I'm sure we can use these drums elsewhere.

Explore tracks have to be a little more minimalist. Thats what you learn writing music for TR, how to make the most of what you got, rather than going on and on with new or too much stuff.

Horizon: This one doesn't really work for me. The tonality is a little too funky for my tastes. Sry no more now gtg.

Good work Don

Don Bernardo · Post by **Don Bernardo** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:22 pm

Thanks again Jedak!

Yeah, "Horizon" perhaps isn't my best work.

Actually, "No Way Out" sounds really dungeon to me. The vanilla tracks are quite similar, no real music, just a creepy sustained sound and some other creepy intermittent sounds, and variations. I think if I make some minor adjustments to the end it could work great.

Here's some new stuff:

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:52 pm

Your town music starts off slightly Scottish/Celtic, but later it sounds slightly Prince of Persia-ish.

It generally sounds nice, but the melody could use a bit more drama and bass, if you ask me. But I do get a Hammerfell feeling.

ThÃƒÂ©odore · Post by **ThÃƒÂ©odore** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:04 pm

I've heard some of your music, and if I generaly like them, but not really more (It's game soundtrack after all), I admit that I specially like "Horizon"; It's quite unusual, sounds a bit old, and very pleseant in that way.

Well, I'd really like to heard what you can do in a usualer way - I mean, more European, you see?

Nevertheless, continue on that way, it is very nice, even if it is not specially what I like the most.

Don Bernardo · Post by **Don Bernardo** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:06 am

This is great guys, thanks for the comments!

Your town music starts off slightly Scottish/Celtic, but later it sounds slightly Prince of Persia-ish.

Is this a bad thing would you say, Aeven? I think that it could actually use more bass though, that's for sure. I'll try to throw in some more next time.

ThÃƒÂ©odore: Yeah, you like Horizon? I'm wondering now if I should try to be less deliberate in making something "sound like Hammerfell".

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:02 am

Great tracks Don,

No Way Out - very creepy.

Shelter - also a great track.
I fell this track should be used on a specific event during game play.

Horizons - I liked it.

I think alot of your tracks are very good, but they should be used during certain events of the game rather than just a normal dungeon or something.
I mean It would seem silly having a great and creepy track like 'No way out' playing in a imperial glass mine and a the same track being used by some dungeon that contains horrific looking daedra thing.

Hopefully you know what I mean, eitherway keep up the work

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:14 am

Dammit I just lost a big post

*sigh*

Just for the record, we will not have any event or location-specific music, save perhaps Quagmire - but that is a void we should not yet venture to.

Don, 'no way out' definately sounds like dungeon music, but I believe its overdone. Not all dungeons are the more frightening experiece in the world. I think in general your music should be more minimalistic. Its slightly too grandeous - like film music perhaps. You need to learn to be more subtle in your writing.

More on your new stuff soon...

Don Bernardo · Post by **Don Bernardo** » Wed May 13, 2009 1:01 am

Been a little while, here's a new explore track.

A little late, but,
@RelinQ: Thanks! I wonder if at some point we can, instead of making event or location specific dungeon music, we can treat it like town or explore, and say, okay, all Imperial glass mines play this music, all ugly daedras play this music, etc.

David House · Post by **David House** » Wed May 13, 2009 2:32 am

Love the newest one best, seems a bit to methodical, sorta like in a temple or something, try something a bit more grand, like "I'm off to go on adventures, rescue fair maidens, and kill dragons!" (and yes I know theres no dragons in morrowind, before anyone brings it up.) But really, I love your music, and this one the most, but try makeing something a bit more like the end of this song.

PS: No offense or bashing, or flaming, intended.

Don Bernardo · Post by **Don Bernardo** » Wed May 13, 2009 3:47 am

None taken! I appreciate the input. I have a bunch of ideas/sketches sitting around that I'll hopefully have the time to write MIDI's for this week, so maybe I can incorporate more of the "dragon-slaying" feel there.

David House · Post by **David House** » Wed May 13, 2009 3:04 pm

lol cool, Ill be waiting in anticipation.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Fri May 15, 2009 5:22 pm

Hello,

In my esteemed opinion (lol) the most recent peice sounds like town music. I think this because it's tranquil and has a strong solo presense from a folky instrument (Ob town music had a dulcimer, this is, I assume, guitar)

Were I still in charge here, I'd be willing to use the peice just as you have it as town music.

Now, did you play that, or is that a sample taken from somewhere?

Don Bernardo · Post by **Don Bernardo** » Sun May 17, 2009 1:42 am

Hello Macar!

Your esteemed opinion is always good at TR!

I'll admit I'm kind of at a disadvantage when doing this. I haven't ever played Oblivion, so although I'm familiar with the soundtrack (I think I know exactly which one has the dulcimer in it) I have never experienced how it works in game. What would you say it is that separates an explore from a public? The idea that had been going by until now that public is "bustling" and "majestic", and explore was more atmospheric, but I'm not sure what I was basing that on... it's good to know that I'm getting somewhere though. I can definitely create more in this vein.

Yes, I'm afraid that is my crappy guitar playing...

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Thu May 21, 2009 3:04 pm

dont be hard on yourself, that's really cool that you incorperated a recording with midi so well.

Yes, I had made the mistake of describing town music in that way, but I dont think that really nails it- or at least that dosent nail how it was in OB. It's hard to explain, realy.

https://www.directsong.com/index.php#/s ... duct/OB101
Look at "harvest dawm", "All's well", "Wings of Kynareth", "Sunrise of flutes" and "Dusk at the market". Those are all the town tracks.

There's a bit more activity than the explore music, that's true- or to be more precise, the harmonic rythm is usualy faster, more chord changes. but I'd say the more important feature is that most of them feature some sort of folk instrument or a folky tune rather than more sweeping sustained chords. Also, Jeremy Soule loves to use harp even more than usual on these, though we dont want to necisisarily imitate that

All this said, the difference beween town and explore music isnt too extreme, listening to those tracks there were several that I couldnt remember weitehr they were explore or town. TR may wat to have a greater distiction, perhaps Redguard towns being more jaded and alive would be more active or mroe grand musicly thant the sterile untopias of Cyrodill?

That's in your hands as the currect active composer

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Fri May 22, 2009 12:54 pm

Macar wrote: There's a bit more activity than the explore music, that's true- or to be more precise, the harmonic rythm is usualy faster, more chord changes. but I'd say the more important feature is that most of them feature some sort of folk instrument or a folky tune rather than more sweeping sustained chords. Also, Jeremy Soule loves to use harp even more than usual on these, though we dont want to necisisarily imitate that

An instrument chosen in line with the european nature of the loacations. hmm, theres something to be said for that. Thing is, could it be replicated with a different instrument more in line with culture of hammerfell. Find one that does the job and use it to replace the harp used in obliv town tracks and go from there.

Yes, i am a little out of place here, but i used to play several instruments when i was younger (lost interest when my taste in music changed and i was no longer able to replicae it myself). Suffice to say i like to think i have an 'ear for music'. I'm actually gonna listen to some of your stuff and see if i can at least bounce some ideas around...

Nanu · Post by **Nanu** » Fri May 22, 2009 1:00 pm

jonarus_drakus wrote:I'm actually gonna listen to some of your stuff and see if i can at least bounce some ideas around...

Macar would certainly be the right person to listen to.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Fri May 22, 2009 1:44 pm

Whoops, my bad... I meant Don Barnardo's music...

FYI, the way i 'review' music is to close my eyes and try to picture where i would have to be for the music to sound natural. If that fits with what your intending it to be for, then cool, if not, well maybe its useable elsewhere.

I had origionaly gone through all your stuff and was going to give opinions on everything but that version of this post died so I'll stick with the new stuff. They only acception is Evening by the Gate, which i felt was VERY good, it made me think of a busy city in Morocco or or the like, which i think is exactly what we should be going for in terms of Hammerfell Town music.

Call of Tava: I like the overall theme of this. Strikes me as being iberian in influence (in a good way). Some have suggested that your stuff is a little 'grand' for game music, but i disagree. This is the sort of stuff playing while I'm in game (if only softly). I turn the Vanilla music right down (almost off) because i find it boring. Your stuff is not boreing!

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Fri May 29, 2009 5:23 am

God I haven't been here for a while, sorry Don.

I had a listen to your new piece, I don't really know what to say. I reckon you can rely on what Macar said anyway.

Don Bernardo · Post by **Don Bernardo** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:02 am

Another track up.

jonarus_drakus wrote:Your stuff is not boreing!

Thanks so much!!

Macar wrote:TR may wat to have a greater distiction, perhaps Redguard towns being more jaded and alive would be more active or mroe grand musicly thant the sterile untopias of Cyrodill?

jonarus_drakus wrote:Thing is, could it be replicated with a different instrument more in line with culture of hammerfell.

This is worth some discussion and experimentation I think. I did really want Redguard cities to feel more alive.

EDIT: wait, now that I go back an listen to this, I realize that middle section still needs work, I'll try to update this file again tomorrow...

EDIT 2: expanse.mp3 updated below

Telsar · Post by **Telsar** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:59 pm

Just listened to your latest music post. I like the flute sound that is prevalent in the first half. The bends in pitch combined with your melody give it a very authentic and unique sound. I'm really at a loss when it comes to explore music though, both in writing it and critiquing it. I might get burned at the stake for saying this... but I've never liked Jeremy Soule's explore music. I suppose he does a good job at creating background noise, but that's what I hear it as: noise. I would never listen to it apart from the game because I don't like it. I've been trying to write an explore track myself imitating his style but it's taking me forever because the song bores me out of my mind. So the thing I like most about your explore track is that it is different.

The only thing I might suggest is working on 1:58 to about 2:35, which may be the middle part your were referring to. It sounds likes a different song to me. I didn't listen too closely, but incorporating more minor chords in that section or adding a variation of the beginning flute melody might give the song more coherence. You may even just want to extract that part and use those ideas for another song.

But again, I like the "differentness" of it, so good work on that.

Don Bernardo · Post by **Don Bernardo** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:50 am

Telsar wrote:don't like Jeremy Soule

I thought I was the only one!

Yeah, I was hoping nobody would download this before I got a chance to update it, heheh... oh well. Just consider it a WIP for now! For that middle part I wanted to just redo one of the two flute melodies in full orchestra but it came out sounding really crappy, I might try to salvage it or just pitch it and start from scratch. Not decided yet. May have time this evening to do some work. Thanks for your comments!

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:57 am

Interesting- to me it sounds almost chinese but not quite. It's always a joy to hear real instruments incorperated- just more lifelike. There are some parts where the flutes seem a little loud to me, like right there at the begining.

Don Bernardo · Post by **Don Bernardo** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:33 am

Fixed this up a bit, tried to make the middle section blend more, changed a few instruments there, adjusted some flute volumes here and there. I'm happier with it now, at least. Let me know if there's still stuff bugging you guys about it.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:23 am

Listening to your last one:

Wide open plain with sparse grass, the breeze kicks up swirls of dust. In the distand background, disapearing into the haze are the otlines of rocky mountains.

Suffice to say i like it, very ambient and 'natural'. The middle of the track sounded a bit like a 'night-time' variation of the theme, tho thats not to suggest that i felt it was out of place with the rest of the track.

My opinion is only that, but in said opinion, this track doesn't need any more work, i like it the way it is and can deffinitely 'feel' it being in-game.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:47 pm

My only comment might be that the strings have a pretty harsh attack in the begining- I think that you used a softer attack later in the peice. Most of the time I think the soft attack with swell is more appropriate to exploration (gives it a nice majestic feel to accompany the grand vistas)

Don Bernardo · Post by **Don Bernardo** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:34 pm

Hi, hope everyone had a good summer!

the strings have a pretty harsh attack in the begining

Unfortunately I just lost all my project files in a recent system crash and I can't go back any edit those strings anymore. Oh well. At least the mp3 is still there.

On the other hand, here's a new file.

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:23 pm

I've had a listen. I know little to nothing about composing or the programs used for it so bear with me.

The beginning sounds good, but why the electronically warped didgeridoo sound?

If I'd hear this in my game, I'd say it was very good and atmospheric, until about 50 seconds into it. At that point the track just falls into what feels like nothing more than rhythmic string plucking (and even more so after 2:00), which continues to the very end. Only the eastern sounding flute (or something, you know what I mean) provides any real, basic melody to the track, and I feel it's under-represented.

So, the use of the banjo or shamisen or whatever it is sounds good in the beginning, combined with the ehm... eastern sounding flute. I'd like more of that though. More smooth, slow, flowing melody. I'd make that the dominant sound instead of the snare thing, which just performs poorly as a dominant instrument. Maybe slow it down a bit too. The rythm made me a little tense.

I hope this helps.