Volunteering for exterior AND interior model work

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:44 am

Hello from down under!

Down under where?...

Come on, you know where!

I'm reletively new to modding, i'll admit that right off the bat, but i have always had a 'feel' for what could be called 'town planning'. The best example i can give of this is the one (beta version) mod i have uploaded thus far:

http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=OblivionMods.Detail&id=5157

Hopefully the link works and i dont have to do a horrible amount of transfering and re-posting and such.

PS: If the NPCs in my town seem a little incomplete, and you find quests are noticable only by there absence, that is because i have yet to develope any real ability with (or patience for) scripting or the like (am eager to learn tho!)

TheGooch · Post by **TheGooch** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:25 am

Hello fellow Ozzie.

Welcome to TR!

first of all your mod is dependant on CM partners and kvatch rebuilt. neither of which i have, so will download them to have a look at your mod. *will try it with out them*

TheGooch · Post by **TheGooch** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:25 am

I checked out your mod. and i removed the master dependancies. which didnt seem to change much. (dialogue maybe)

its attached for others to look at.

just asking, you do know what floaters & bleeders are?

eg: a bed half in a wall is a bleeder
a bed sitting in mid air, not touching the ground is a floater.

i did a quick check and some objects are bleeding. even rocks into the side of the house and the tree as well.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:50 am

Thanks for the heads up on these thing, however, due to the discrepincies resulting in the 'other mods being required' i have discontinued work on Lakewatch (seemed to be a popular location for mods too, didn't want to clash with all of them).

Admin Edit: Cut out the offending parts

Faalen · Post by **Faalen** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:55 am

Advertising for other teams/projects is prohibited by the forum rules. Posting samples of work you've done while a part of another project for review is one thing, but posting just to introduce and describe another mod is inappropriate.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:06 pm

Ok, sorry about that, i only mentioned it on the basis of informing the 'bosses' of how serious im taking the whole modding thing in general (and, there is also the fact that, should there be any such interest, the mod could be expanded to apply to Hammerfell as well), but yeah, I'll avoid doing that in future.

Now, back on track, i have a VERY early sample of my new city, Canula. At this stage there are no NPCs, only two interiors and a whole bunch of incomplete walls (not the fortified ones). Now, before you make a list as long as your arm of all the 'bleeders & floaters', i am well aware that there are TONS of both, but they will be corrected as i continue the refining process. Even then there will certainly always be a few that i leave intentionaly (most notably the west gate which merges into the 'castle' wall. That and the Chorrol House merged into the large tower (I nice take on a 'small keep' even if i do say so myself).

PS: Do you have any Durmatic Smelg i can borrow?

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:54 am

Great, double post... I hate that

I was dabbling in paint and came up with a low-detail plan of a Redguard combat ship (inspired by the North-African Xebecs as seen in Empire: Total War). I purposely kept it very low on details (no profile, top down only) so a more tallented concept artist could 'run with it'. Thought i might as well put it up, hope the file works...

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:15 pm

the concept is nicely detailed, but a front and side view would also be needed before it can be modeled. I'll try to take a look at your mod sample later today

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:49 am

Thanks LN, if only i had a scanner then i could do the whole lot freehand

As for my up-loaded mod... I've been going over it with a fine tooth comb (to the exclusion of all else - i just realised how hungry i am - Its like a motivational case of OCD). Biggest mistake i noticed was i had thus-far given zero consideration to grass effects (i have it turned off normaly, tho the game runs fine either way, so its back on for testing purposes), mostly fixed now. Grounding a few floaters caused by my terain manipulations, re-aligned some eastern town wall segments, and added new interiors, complete with NPCs (with basic sceduals - eat, sleep, wander, etc). At this point, it is basicaly Silverfish Quay itself that i will be uploading, its just that it happens to be part of the larger 'Canula' Plug-in.

With that im going to go eat...

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:08 pm

i assume theres another file forthcoming? took a quick look at the file posted, some thoughts:

-land is totally flat. add some hills around the houses, some depressions where the road is.. make it interesting. along the same lines, some of the land is a bit too evenly sloped away from the castle and has some jagged edges. smooth that area out, add some random hills perhaps, to make it look more realistic.
-textures. it looks pretty unrealistic to have houses built right on top of brick, i would place some dirt or grass around buildings, walls, etc. there was a pretty bad texture seam next to a gate, as well as a texture (dark rocky) that looks out of place.
-vertex shading, you have none. its the bottom part of the landscape editor, pick a gray color and paint it around large statics (trees, wells, buildings, etc.) to simulate shadow. this will make things look a whole lot better immediately.
-detail. both the town and the surrounding wilderness needs more of it. in the town add some trees, some containers, random junk, and other clutter to make it look inhabited. you have quite a bit of open space, so make it interesting. since this is an open city be weary of framerate. the slope outside the city walls could also use some rocks, shrubbs, etc.

over all its a nice start to a city, though i really would prefer a small island for a showcase (since it better demonstrates how well you can work with the land, place textures, etc.). the basics are there, it just needs a bit more attention

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:55 pm

A whole bunch of long nights and Silverfish Quay is all but done (not counting the northern shore of the river). While due to being part of the same plug-in as Canula, the uploaded file will bear that towns name, but if you go to the city, just follow the road from the west gate and you willl find Silverfish Quay where i have done a massive amount of work:

> Chorrol mid-class building replaced with Leyawin low.
> Tree in the middle of town.
> Grass adjusted to not overlap non-grass terain (or interfear with buildings and the like).
> Interiors added for all builds (all are decorated and 'cluttered', err, mostly).
> Added NPCs including two mechants, all NPCs have (basic) scheduals.
> Vertex shading (shadow effects) done.

There is one minor issues i havn't figure out how to fix as yet:

> NPCs who gather under 'wander' scripts simply stand in centre of town until new effect begins, the dont actually seem to move around or talk to each other... at all...

But yeah, give us the score so i know what still needs work and such. laterz!

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:15 am

Sigh... another double post...

Curiously enough the cause for this one is the same as the last, my ship concept. As you requested LN i have updated the concept with a side view and both a front and rear view aswell. Please keep in mind however, that due to the in-precise nature of MS paint the various views are not 100% to scale with each other (if would normaly create something like this freehand on graphing paper to ensure uniformity).

PS: While i would be happy to work on any other concept stuff i feel compeled to note that i would be unsuitable for clothing or armour concepts (not to metion people or animals) due to a complete inability to draw living things.

Ta.

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:08 am

If you don't mind I can give you some comments on your concept art.

First thing I have to say is that the mere fact that you use MS paint made me chuckle. I don't mean that in any negative way, but I just never expected anyone to actually use that horrible, horrible program. ^^

Your concept art is nicely functional. Modelers love good 3- or 4-view concepts since... well, they are easy to model with. IMO your concept is lacking in one area though, and based on the comments near the drawings you seem to be aware of that. The design is very generic, and not 'to style'. I think it's at least as important for concept art to express the style as it is to provide a shape to model with.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:42 am

Yeah, i intentionaly chose to steer clear of stylising the consept. This was mainly because i was unsure if the basic desgn itself would 'fit' for the hammerfell project and equaly because i was unsure of just what sort of stylisic effects would be apropriate.

And i will admit, there is also the fact that due to MS paints obvious inferiorty as a desgn tool that i couldn't add stylistic effects without them looking like something a dog shat out.

I have a screenshot i took of the Xebec as it is in Empire Total War. I'm a little leary about posting it here, but i will if you like as it does give some idea of the traditional style asociated with this class of vessel...

In the end i only really created it as template for someone else to finish, so feel free to run with it if you like. I'll probably end up adding some extra fo it at some stage though (different ideas about the shape of the ram and the stern detailing and such).

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:46 am

I have a screenshot i took of the Xebec as it is in Empire Total War.

A fellow Total war fan on the TR forums? cool

I think I faced a pirate fleet of those things early in my first campaign. Sent a whole fleet of mine to the bottom... but anyway I can see them being pretty Hammerfellish.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:01 am

Those damned Barberay Corsairs...

But yeah, it was a pretty clear fit to me as all the screenies i've seen of hammerfell architecture scream "North Africa" to me.

Oh, any responses to Silverfish Quay from anyone? Even non-reviewers opinions would be helpful as I've basicaly been sitting around bored senseless not knowing what to do with it...

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:52 pm

its a nice little town. theres a pretty big texture seam next to the stairs and the docks could use more detail, but otherwise its solid work. i cant really promote you for exteriors however, since you only modified a cyrodiil porting and i need to see how you can build stuff from scratch. can you please make a little island off the coast somewhere?

i also took a look at one of the interiors. the only real error i noticed was that the chairs floated (activator furniture needs to be Fed several times or lowered by hand). there was some style mixing, but it appeared to be intentional, ill let it slide as long as you know youre not supposed to do that. The tavern was rather empty, but the other interiors were nicely detailed and error free.

im going to go ahead and say youre Promoted for Interior Modding. i encourage you to make me a little exterior showcase as well, as at the moment exteriors are in more demand than interiors.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:01 pm

AAAARGH!!! Double posting again! Well, if it gets my submission >cough< *bumped* >cough< , then i guess i can live with it

Depending on the amount of work Silverfish Quay still needs (I'm under no illusions that it still could use some), i have began a new submission. LN said that an Island would be best (in terms of exteriors at least) so I am creating a border fort on that little island in the mouth of the Strid River S/E of Anvil. At this point its just 'Fort Strid' but i will come up with a better name latter.

I just hope there is at least one other post between this one and that one... (insert ominous music here)

Scratch that double posting nonsense, you snuck in on me LN!
Thanks for the vote of confidence on the interior stuff too,i knew being anal about the placement of things would pay off

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:05 pm

lol No worries about a double post. But, congrats on your fairly quick and painless promotion.

Hope you enjoy contributing to TR.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:13 pm

>sits down again after several mineuts of very bad dancing<

Yeah, much quicker than i thought. If only i had planned ahead (need to 'aquire' all the needed resorces, but its probably gonna have to wait a week or two as my internet conection has a download limit thats all but used up - just checked it, 98% of limit, but only 63% of billing period, i might get very quite for a little while, what with extra use being charged at 15cents per Mb and all).

PS: look at member pictures page, now that i can legitimately do so im putting up a pic of me doing a burnout. (Im a car nut, what can i say

)

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:57 pm

Accursed double posts...

As suggested/requested I have started on a small Island (near Bravil, already map-markered) for an exterior showcase. Conjuring and decorating Islands is rather new to me so im taking it slow, i also though it might be helpful if i put my in-progress stuff up early so i can get some advice BEFORE I'm finshed there-by avoiding the need to go back and re-do stuff.

Basic description: Couple of Goldmoor LC buildings, And fortified tower with brazier in it to make a small lighthouse, lack of doorway pieces prevented me frm adding such at this stage. At base of tower is a small 'courtyard' tho so its pretty obvious where doorway would be. Scattering of GM plants/trees and a couple of containers.

I've noticed that the exterior stairs on both building are actually quite hard to mount from the bottom, probably an issue with the extra high nature of the first step.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:47 pm

took a look at the exterior, it still needs work. smooth the land and make it flow gradually into the sea and on the isle (currently part is totally flat while others are angular). add lots more detail (rocks, human items, etc.) there are also some bad texture seams on the tower side of the isle. the clay containers bleed into the ground (not too bad, if the ground was not cobblestone

) and into eachother. i also noticed that there was a tree floating in the air off the ground and that the docks wood support things werent in the ground.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:22 am

Ok, this is a MAJOR mod I've been working on pretty much since my last post. There are problems (namely the door 'tags' on the wall either side of the barraks tower), but the exterior alone took more than a week to get to this point so, even if it is based on a vanila location, i hope the multitude of both major and minor terrain tweeks will be enough to be considered to be good enough in terms of exterior modification >insert puppy eyes and cheesy grin here<.

PLEASE NOTE: DUE TO THE LOCATION YOU WILL NEED TO HAVE BORDERS DISABLED TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS ALL AREAS AFFECTED BY THE MOD IN GAME.

Ok, now for the history lesson (for those of you who have downloaded already, sorry). The Fort takes the place of the previously featureless small island in the Mouth of the Strid river (hence the name) and acts as a boarder fort into N/W Valenwood. It has been here in one form or another almost since the very begining of the 3rd Era and the Current commander is the fourth in his family line to command the fort (Hence the ornate burial chanber in the Chapels Undercroft). Over the years the Fort has become an important trade post in its own right, hence its current size and the number and quality of it facilities and services.
Due to its location on the Valenwood border the Fort (unsuprisingly) boosts a number of Bosmer Archers as a part of its garrison, while the majority of the Frontline Infantry are of Cyrodillic Background with the only notale acceptions being the Redguard Quatermaster (Smith) and The Altmer Battlemage who is the Forts Second in command.

I think thats enough of that (not everything mentioned has been added as yet, but its the 'goal' i have in mind - feel free to make suggestions).

Hopefuly, once completed and 'up to scratch' (as in TR quality, even though it has no connection to anything TR at all - its a standard to aim for all the same

) I will release it to the public as just one of many such Forts all around the borders of Cyrodill.

But yeah, thanks for bothering to actually read all this, and if you didn't, well, shame on you for cheating

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:28 am

Ok, so i might be taking a bit of acreative licence to the whole 'wait one week before bumping' thing by going with a working week instead of a cronological week but whatever...

> BUMP <

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Tue May 05, 2009 10:46 pm

Not just a double but a triple... oh dear... But it has been more than a week since i last bumped...

Besides, i have a far newer version of the uploaded mod. I have made many small tweeks to the exterior in terms of both terrain and clutter. There are new interiors (The 'HQ' building which is partialy furished, and the small hut outside the walls which is actualy hiding a rather large secret). There are also more NPCs (though few of the new ones have any scheduals).

The Sitridhom Bridge Inn, owned by Malpen and Pelena Culleii (Kul-e-eye), is now FULLY FUNCTIONAL! Yes, my first successfuly implemented script! The room is the one with the two single beds and cost 20 gold for each 24hr period.

EDIT: I am of course more concerned about opinions about the exterior work as i have already been promoted for interiors. However, as i plan on publicly releasing this mod once complete, ANY advice on making it as complete as posible is welcome...

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sat May 16, 2009 5:31 pm

phew, finally have time to take a look at this. sorry for the wait, and thanks for helping out with the showcase. in the future, could you please upload a plain esp (if it doesnt need meshes or anything)? lazy people like me dont like having to unzip rars

got a couple "unable to find quest reference" errors in relation to the Bed and BedYes topics.

its nicely detailed and looks interesting, i do have a few complains however:
-the texture is very uniform, and therefore makes it look fake. alternate with some broken versions of the same texture where appropriate. oftentimes the brick goes right under the building, which is not realistic, add some grass or dirt around the buildings foundations. it will look better and help to break up the monotony.
-the land is perfectly flat which once again looks unrealistic. raise it around houses and/or lower it around roads, add some variety to make it seem more natural.
-i'd add a few containers for detail and to make it look more lived in. over all the detail is excellent however, it has a very pleasant park like atmosphere.
-theres is an awkward texture seam next to the cottage outside, and again next to the potatoes by the entrance.
-there is some flickering next to the castle where the two bridge pieces overlap

over all, i really like this town. its very well detailed and the errors are minimal. there are a bit too many roads/brick textures here for my taste, but over all its well designed and looks good. fix the above errors and i'd be willing to promote you. keep in mind however that most of our exterior work is *not* cities, but simple wilderness, you might want to practice that as well.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Sun May 17, 2009 5:58 am

Well if nothing else you have confirmed my suspicion that we have very different tastes when it comes to terain textureing. Not that thats a bad thing per say... The 'level' nature of the majority of the courtyard was intention due to its paved nature, i guess i just cant really see a neatly paved area being particularly uneven. On the subject of the nature of the paving itself, the consistant nature of that is explained in the 'history' section of the read-me where i explain that the fort has undergone a major re-vival and refurbishment during the riegn of the late Uriel Septim VII, during which i felt it would be reasonable to asume that any majorly damaged sections of pavement would have been replaced (Just quitely i think I've hit the motherload combining Anvil paving with Skingrad building style). Finaly, the whole pavement next to building thing. Either its because i havn'e finished detailing the area, its imediatly linked to a door, or its intentional (as in at the front of the Inn with the small walled garden bed).

As for the broken quest reference thing, that i cant explain, i tested it in game and had no problems at all...

Whew, i need to take a breather... Will hopefuly have a new(er) version up within a week (if i can tear myself away from fallout3 which i only just got).

PS: the non-esp upload was mainly a way to provide the 'readme' and it included history section.

EDIT: I cant believe i forgot to bring this up as it is THE reason i prefer to test things in-game. The texture seams, they're phantoms, as in they only show up in the CS, in game they disapear

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sun May 17, 2009 2:03 pm

paved streets are relatively level, but only in relation to themselves. they still conform to the natural terrain of a place, which means that the town should have at least some hills or depressions. in the 20th century we have the technology to completely level a plaza, back in the day there were always some unevenness present.

check these pics:
http://k53.pbase.com/u14/sbhudia/large/5933880.101_0133_IMG.jpg
http://breitman.homestead.com/cuba/Cuba55.jpg
http://www.ixbalanque.com/Photos/orquidea/street.JPG
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/10510856.jpg
in this pic you will also notice phenomenon number two, stones not going directly under a building. buildings are built on a foundation anchored into the ground for stability, it is impossible to build them directly on top of a paved street.

anyways, i think there is a mix between indented backstory and having it look good. a completely flat terrain surface over two cells and the overwhelming prevalence of the perfect stone makes it look, to me, unnatural. others might think otherwise. im willing to dismiss the texture, since it really is just preference, but the ground needs to have at least some height variation. nothing, not even a paved 20th century street, is ever completely level.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Sun May 17, 2009 2:51 pm

Hmm... the point is conceded. The paving right up to doors and stuff stands tho (it makes sense in this limited context in my opinion).

I am working on 'roughing up' the paved areas as we speak, using a more worn version of the paving texture around (some of) the edges and such, and 'tweeking' the levels in such areas too (once i put the update up it will quickly become obvious that the texture and hight changes have been puposely matched up). If the more open paved areas still seem a little flat once I'm done then i can only really revert to the whole 'recently re-paved' thing (in which case it would probably be fair to think that after many re-pavings over the process of the Forts aproximately 400 year history that the surface would become gradualy become more and more level, reguardless of the level of technology).

I also re-tested the bed renting "quest", double-checking it both in game and in the CS. It came up perfectly clean for me. If the problem persists on your end give me the specifics and I'll try to track it down...

PS: I'll try to add some more 'terain only' modifications into my mod, the road up towards the Gweden Farmhouse being just part of that (I was thinking an enterence to a caved in mine - as in the enterence itself has caved in, meaning no interior).

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Mon May 18, 2009 10:17 pm

With appology for the double postage...

I'm pretty sure I've cover the problems you mentioned. The surface inside the fort has been 'roughed up' both in texture and in level. Some more crates/barrels have been added all around the area of the south gate (one cluster has the double effect of hiding a texture seam that just wouldn't die...

Outside the walls the road lead away from the fort has been enhanced. The grass in the middle of the road issues are gone, the surface level of the road itself has been made more realistic. Finaly, the mine enterence is not where you might think on the road (may look it but thats just coz i like the overhang), and its not an old colapsed mine, its the very begining of a new mine.

Hope i havn't got the wrong end of the stick with any of this...

PS: In reguards to the open terrain work, i can assure you it wont be a problem. In fact, i look forward to the chalenge of making such areas interesting (and giving players a reason to explore such areas fully) without adding stuff thats not suposed to be there (interiors. buildings, ruins, etc).

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Mon May 25, 2009 3:03 pm

When at first you dont get a response you got to bump it, bump it good

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon May 25, 2009 11:49 pm

yea, sorry mang. i'll take a look at it tomorrow when i get back from working.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed May 27, 2009 2:28 pm

phew, i guess that didnt happen. im here now though.

im going to go ahead and say that youre Promoted for Exterior Modding. the town is very well detailed and has some great personality. just keep in mind that flat ground is a no-no in TR lands, no matter what the backstory

i did find a couple of errors:
-the end of the double bridge did not match with the bridge proper, leaving a gap, on the land side.
-the land around the bridges could use some smoothing, like so:
[url=http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/971/35324535.jpg][img]http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/971/35324535.th.jpg[/img][/url]

i'd say read over the [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=217846#217846]GM exterior overview[/url] and get your hands on the last remaining claim

i also advise that you take a look at nemon's work to see what can (and should) be done with goldmoor.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Thu May 28, 2009 11:01 pm

Thanks! I cant believe i missed that under the bridge... i guess i alowed myself to forget it due to the whole 'not really visable' from above thing... never again...

As for the 'error' with the double bridge... I'm not quite sure what you mean... your talking about the far (Valenwood) end of the bridge right? Do you mean how the end-piece bleeds into the ground? or is it not at the right hight to match the bridge?

But other than that I'll get stuck into that one goldmoor claim right now.

Thanks again, laterz!

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri May 29, 2009 3:30 pm

there is a little gap between the main bridge and the end piece, you just need to move the end piece a little closer to the bridge to cover it up.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:12 am

Oh my god it took me while to track this bad-boy down again! Why am i reviving my showcase? Because i figured that instead of complainging about the lack of modelers on the oblivion side of things, i should probably pull my thumb out and at least TRY to learn how to do it myself. I have both Blender and Nifscope, but zero idea of how to use them. So any links to "The idiots guide to" like tutorials, or any information any any other programs i could/should have would be excelent.

Gah, this place brings back memories...