n8-38-For

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Mon May 05, 2008 12:31 am

DockPiece05-TightTurn1
-points converge into a semi-circle. They should converge into a single point at the corner to preserve polys, and to prevent a gap in the mesh when two meshes are put together.
[url=http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=50759290vl6.jpg][img]http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/702/50759290vl6.th.jpg[/img][/url]

DockPiece12-End1
-vertices can be merged into a single point.
[url=http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=88688112ki2.jpg][img]http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/945/88688112ki2.th.jpg[/img][/url]

DockPiece14-Waterway2
-object not centered on 0,0,0.

DockPiece16-WatertubeLarge
-unseen faces on the bottom can be deleted.
-vertices can be merged into a single point on the top of the mesh.
[url=http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=60406381xv9.jpg][img]http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8805/60406381xv9.th.jpg[/img][/url]

DockPiece16-WatertubeLarge
-Same as above.

Just a reminder that these meshes will need smoothing groups, especially on the pieces with large curves. The polys get blocky on the outside edge.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Mon May 05, 2008 12:47 am

I explain the reasons I've not deleted the extra polies in the readme. As for smoothing groups, I've no idea what to do. If I use meshsmooth, the object will have twice its current polies. Should I use a NURBS smooth tool or something?

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Mon May 05, 2008 12:06 pm

Smoothing groups has nothing to do with changing the polycount. It determines which faces smooth out each other (the edges between polies aren't visible) while rendering or ingame. To set the smoothing, I go to the Polygon properties rollout in the editable poly.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Wed May 07, 2008 6:11 pm

I suppose the Smooth modifier could do the work as well, since it only affects the model in a visual, non-geometrical way.

I also wanted to say that the delay of updates will continue for at least a week, since I'm stuck up with this year's final assignment and the deadline is only 20 days away.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:45 pm

Well, you should alwyas experiment with smoothing groups in the first place. Keep in mind that there is a difference between what you see while modelling and the final rendered effect. And the max render is also different than the oblivion engine. But we will get on these differences later.

No problem, dude. We'll be waiting.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:36 am

Progress pleeeease. This is a high priority thing.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:23 pm

As I wrote to Haplo a moment ago, I'll get back on this in about a week.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:39 pm

Are the latest meshes the ones you uploaded in April?

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:48 am

Yes. What remains to be done is just some tedious change-the-position-numbers work, so they'll be ready as soon as I'm done with what I'm currently doing.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:32 pm

hows this coming scummy?

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:59 pm

"When" would be more precise. Before Friday dear LN.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:05 pm

very nice! nemon will be happy.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:19 pm

its pretty much been a month, any updates?

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:27 pm

*tumbleweed*

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:49 am

ive sent scumy a PM, but in the meantime ima go and revoke this.

Seven · Post by **Seven** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:40 pm

UV mapping these now, going to work with Lady N on the textures. =)

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:15 pm

awesomesauce in a biscuit on a stick

Seven · Post by **Seven** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:02 am

Here's the UV layout for the first piece, TrHfDocksCraneBase, in case you wanted to start playing with textures lady N. I labeled the sections of the layout so you know whats what(included a copy without the text too).

I'll be working on the other layouts in the meantime.

-Seven

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:06 am

Don't forget that you can stack your UV coordinates on top of each other. You've got 72 'ends' on your layout, but you could probably reduce that to 8 (for example), and use the extra space to increase the quality of each one. They'll repeat a bit on your model, but if they're just plank ends nobody will notice anyways and you'll have a better looking texture.

If it were an area somebody is going to notice, like a place the player has to walk, then you give it more variation.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:33 am

Did you make sure they are properly modular and polywise meshes before you started mapping? I don't want anybodys work to get waisted...

(This is a question to Seven and to Lady Nerevar too)

Seven · Post by **Seven** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:43 am

What i've done, is load the .nifs in blender, convert faces to Quads, Remove Doubles, export, check that all looks fine in NifSkope, then started my mapping.

My logic is that if theres a modular problem it will be minor and would require adjusting the position of the existing vertices, not adding or changeing the geometry. (I loaeded them all into one scene and tiled them quickly to make sure there was no major issue.)

As I am new I would not be surprised if I'm overlooking something, lemme know.

-Seven

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:52 pm

Well of course you can still move vertices after you do the mapping, but in many situations it becomes very hard. To give you a good example... I made a completely new interior modular set mostly because a ramp from the old set was displaced. It was a such a pain to fix, that no one was able to do it over years of TR history. Rarely ever it is a matter of simple vertices adjusting, even though it might seem so for someone who didn't try it. Basically many many things can get messed up, and trust me, they probably will.

I'm just recommending you to watch out. Make sure the pieces are working fine before you get your hands on them. If you don't have access to the Construction set, import into your scenes something that is already in the OoT for a good reference. Try the city walls, LC walls or MC interiors.

Seven · Post by **Seven** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:20 pm

It was a such a pain to fix, that no one was able to do it over years of TR history. Rarely ever it is a matter of simple vertices adjusting, even though it might seem so for someone who didn't try it. Basically many many things can get messed up, and trust me, they probably will.

I do believe I'm going to take the highroad on this project now. Theres a reason why sr. modders have had trouble with this dock set, and I don't have the experience to see the why. This isn't a rebuke, not at all, just myself admitting I'm not sure how to approach it.

Also, I'm sort of flying blind without having the CS.

I feel that I should at least have the experience of properly making a modular set before I try and tweak another mans.

Revoke by request for now please, maybe in the near future I'll be ready to take another crack at it.

-Seven

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:58 pm

This set wasn't a trouble really. It just needs someone to take care of it. El Scumbago is far from being an experienced modeller and I dropped this set because I had things to do that were even higher on priority.

What I do recommend for myself is always making new meshes for modular sets instead of trying to fix something. Modelling the structure is in most cases the easiest and fastest stage of mesh creating.

Also, I had no experience either, when I made my first modular set. You just need to try. If you can make the pieces fit each other seamlessly, they are fine. Just remember that the game engine uses the following lenghts 2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024 and so on. Instead of 250, 500, 1000 etc.

If your piece is centered in the middle of a scene, and if you make a copy of it and move it 512 to the left and it will fit the original piece, it is good.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:03 pm

ive fixed the errors listed by morden above. ill see what i can do with UV mapping.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:58 pm

they need to be rotated to face the correct way.

also had considerable trouble getting them to snap to eachother :/

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:12 pm

did you try snap to reference? Is there anything that anyone else can do here?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu May 21, 2009 3:48 pm

scummy's pieces were off by a couple units, which made them impossible to snap. rather than editing each one by hand i have decided to redo them. this also saves time on UV mapping, which would have taken forever to do on each individual piece.

screens:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/i_am_crazy/Untitled1-2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/i_am_crazy/Harbor1.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/i_am_crazy/harbor2.jpg

you will notice some height differences in the pieces -- the longer ones are more current. the textures on top also dont match, this will be fixed.

to do:
-fix UV mapping on top of corner pieces
-add collision
-re-export newest pieces
-vertex color.

the set currently includes a strait piece, a half-length strait piece (to compensate for possible holes when using corners), two corner pieces (one in, one out), and a large round island thing. i'll be adding two end caps, and i think thats all thats really needed. i matches the sidewalk set.

Post by **Haplo** » Thu May 21, 2009 8:00 pm

The brick texture on top is just a placeholder... right?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:35 pm

its the same one we used for the sidewalk, so i was thinking of keeping it (with changes to the UV map so that it looks uniform and tiles throughout). im not set on that so far, especially since the texture is hard to work with on this model. i'll probably switch it, but i dont know to what.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri May 22, 2009 1:34 am

It just looks a little off from the rest of the architecture set, and the other textures used on the same meshes. The platform brick texture also looks to me like it's just an enlarged/zoomed-in version of the walkway brick texture. I guess I mean that it looks like a photo instead of a texture.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:55 am

ive exported these with base colors and new top textures (these might not tile perfectly).

to do:
-colission
-detailed vertex color, meaning darker green at bottom.
in other words, blender work.

they should be good for testing for now

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sat May 30, 2009 3:03 pm

and here is a screenshot.
[url=http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7104/dock1.jpg][img]http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7104/dock1.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:12 pm

i think this is done. unless i forgot something.

please review!

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:09 pm

I can't see what they look like with textures because I don't have them, but do they use all the same textures as your previous post's screenshot shows?

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:30 pm

Im sorry for commenting so late in this post but the sides that go into the water look too repetitious (the texture) : and its the only thing I don't like. Otherwise that looks pretty damn nice!

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:24 pm

haplo: yes they do. all the textures are in OoT, and have been for a while.

Nex: i'll see what i can do.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:54 am

I looked at those original screenes and am wondering if the squares lining the edges of those docks have been chamfered and smoothed? I saw the files LN is working on but are those originals going into OoT seperate as well?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:23 pm

nope, anything before mine is not going into OoT. the 1st dock set was designed specifically for Rihad, and since rihad was not built around it it is now pretty much useless. furthermore, we tried to divide it into modular pieces but that didnt work out too well (things didnt line up as they were supposed to and it was not modular enough). the crane and supports from the original set did go into OoT though.

there will actually be a blogpost outlining all this later today, once i manage to get some screenshots

btw, i was testing it in game and noticed that some pieces get darker on some corners (which makes tiling look crappy). it looks fine in the CS, but shows up in nifskope and the game. any idea what is causing it (my guess is that i forgot to join some vertexes)? or, more importantly, how to fix it?

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:26 pm

I know I'm not providing very specific thoughts, but I still think the texture on top is wrong; IMO the texture in aro's first screenshot on the first page is spot on, I don't know why it was changed.