[FCG]: Hammerfellian Temples

Lighter Than Some · Post by **Lighter Than Some** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:14 pm

Thanks.

Was thinking them to be as common as yarn and ratty clothing in Cyrodil, something you could easily find a number of in crates and bins and something a general merchant could sell you for a few gold pieces.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:29 pm

I like your underground temple. Wouldn't it be cool to have a unique underground temple in the Alik'r Desert with a spring within it-a place wanderers go to quench their thirst. Perhaps the water comes from ice deep within the mountains.

Lighter Than Some · Post by **Lighter Than Some** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:43 am

Oooh I like that. A lot. Thats sort of what I was thinking. Although a unique one in the middle of the desert where all sorts of folks were brought together to rest, rehydrate, rejuvenate and relax before finishing their pilgrimage/trek/aimlesswandering/quest. That would be so cool. An extensive spring system or underground river being fed by the mountains.

Four Greyhounds · Post by **Four Greyhounds** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:28 pm

i like the idea of the palace in Agrabah from the Aladdin Disney movie.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/kingdomhearts/images/6/69/AgrabahArt.jpg

it might be too grand (and especially too big to create in the game) but it could be an idea.

Obagovo · Post by **Obagovo** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:37 pm

Four Greyhounds wrote:i like the idea of the palace in Agrabah from the Aladdin Disney movie.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/kingdomhearts/images/6/69/AgrabahArt.jpg

it might be too grand (and especially too big to create in the game) but it could be an idea.

That is something we are specifically avoiding. We don't want Arabic, we want Hammerfell.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:54 am

That is something we are specifically avoiding. We don't want Arabic, we want Hammerfell.

yes: HF is not arabian or turkish. it is easy to pull up the 'grand mosque' or the 'dome of the rock' in google if your looking for ideas. I was noob enough to suggest ideas like this back when I was building a draft for castle sentinel. It got shot down because I made it look to much like something in "arabian nights". I quickly got over it once I realized how out of the picture it was.

take it with a grain of salt tho: I just mesh until Lady N and haplo tell me I got it right.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:38 pm

lol, i have the impression that everyone sees me as a slavedriving bitch

anyway, some arabic inspiration is just fine - as long as its mixed with elements of less cliche cultures/places and spiced up with fantasy. what we dont want to do is take something from real life (or media!) and copy it directly into hammerfell - unless its uber awesomesause cool and not stereotyped (as in most people would not know that it is from real life)

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:12 pm

lol, i have the impression that everyone sees me as a slavedriving bitch

[url=http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/?action=view&current=ricwhip_2.gif][img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/th_ricwhip_2.gif[/img][/url]

Maybe I'm a little too adamant about it.... If we're going to copy something do it out of TESI or II? I think that subject is a couple pages back in last year. Either way, I am stoked to see what concept get's approved! I wish I was an able artist of paper but past ideas and ingame lore I don't have too much to contribute to this stage

:EDITED: what about Haplo? He can have its tyrannical moments

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:08 pm

older games can be used as inspiration, but in most cases the concepts would need to elaborate on the models significantly to match oblivion's nextgen-ness.

Four Greyhounds · Post by **Four Greyhounds** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:52 am

sorry if this isn't what you're looking for, but what about this? it could at least be used for some kind of inspiration

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Bayon_Angkor_Spiegelung.jpg

towers similar to this is an idea

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Iron_Pagoda_of_Kaifeng_6.jpg

here's some other ideas:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Lotus_temple_47.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Goetheanum.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Olympiastadionin_torni.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Sion_Valere_Castle_20070730.jpg

hope I can help!

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:26 am

Lady N: yes I understand that. I've played Daggerfall for about eleven years now, and as general gaming progresses so does what I see in the classics.

When Im walking through this:
[url=http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/?action=view&current=daggerfall_city.jpg][img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/th_daggerfall_city.jpg[/img][/url]

I see this:
[url=http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/?action=view&current=arcania_09.jpg][img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/th_arcania_09.jpg[/img][/url]

To FGrey: I see potential in Goetheanum and Sion Valere, the others are all thumps down for HF IMO. Sion Valere seems more like a Wayrest area kind of building, but That is part of Daggerfall no? Goethaneanum does strike a chord with me: something about it.....

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:31 pm

The thing looks quite strange, which is good. But it's not at all similar to the style we've got going for HF so far.

BTW, why are people suddenly acting like we are designing temples all over again? Jelle is already modeling the round temple concept which seemed to have consensus, and he only asked for concepts of specific modular pieces.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:43 pm

Probably because this is a discussion thread. If a concept had been approved by the head of OoT then the admins would be in here telling us to stfu. Do you have a link to the claim /thread in which Jelle is posting progress?

:EDITED: nvm I found the link. there is also the possibility that there will be two temples as there are in Cyrodil.

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:46 pm

He gave the link himself when he revived this thread (the discussion of which was long dead) and explained why. But I guess now that we have reached a new page people don't bother to read that far back.

[url]http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=18762&start=40[/url]

Edit myself: To get this straight: I think it's perfectly fine for people to post new temple concepts when they come up with one, and to discuss those. It's a step too far to start a new discussion about HF style and post new inspiration pics as if we actually NEED more temples. Such discussions are pretty fruitless at this point, IMO.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:54 pm

true: I read the whole claim and now I understand why THIS thread picked back up. Hopefully Jelle logs on and posts some progress real soon that I can import and check out in 3dsmax.

Lighter Than Some · Post by **Lighter Than Some** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:19 pm

I've been MIA lol. I missed that part.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:03 pm

Official Administrative Notice of Awesome:

Please restrict your concepts to modular pieces and addons to the temple only! Thank you!

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:22 pm

Lady Nerevar wrote:im not sure how exactly to handle it, but i think that we should really expose the player to all the minor gods in raga mythology. maybe have small shrines within the main temple dedicated to some of them? i liked how the morrowind triloths told a small story, we could do a similar factoid (in suitably redguard fashion) for the minor deities.

in terms of interior pieces, i'd like to see an altar or two designed. maybe one that is really elaborate, carved and painted, and another one that is a simpler version for poorer/less devout areas.

Who are these minor gods? Any info on them?

I'm trying to design some altars, but I realized that I can't make much beyond a standard table-like altar without any info on it's location within the temple.
For example, will it be in the center of the temple or in the back? Will it be in front of a god image, should the god image be incorporated or neither? Or am I completely free to make such considerations myself?

Jelle · Post by **Jelle** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:41 pm

Myzel wrote:
Lady Nerevar wrote:im not sure how exactly to handle it, but i think that we should really expose the player to all the minor gods in raga mythology. maybe have small shrines within the main temple dedicated to some of them? i liked how the morrowind triloths told a small story, we could do a similar factoid (in suitably redguard fashion) for the minor deities.

in terms of interior pieces, i'd like to see an altar or two designed. maybe one that is really elaborate, carved and painted, and another one that is a simpler version for poorer/less devout areas.
Who are these minor gods? Any info on them?

I'm trying to design some altars, but I realized that I can't make much beyond a standard table-like altar without any info on it's location within the temple.
For example, will it be in the center of the temple or in the back? Will it be in front of a god image, should the god image be incorporated or neither? Or am I completely free to make such considerations myself?

Here, I dug something up for you. It's a thread by Sload, its an ancient thread, but it describes some Gods. I guess you can get some inspiration from it.
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=17751

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:50 pm

Thanks Jelle, that's a very interesting thread! I didn't know the idea was to have so many minor gods. I like it though, because it makes sense (many polytheistic religions in our own history worked like this) and it allows us to make up a god whenever we feel like it.

But: in real history most of such gods would not have a public shrine. Most would not even have depictions in art. They would be:
- gods that stand for a vague idea or concept, such as a plentiful life, luck, victory, the past, honor, truth, etc.
- gods that are associated with specific activities, such as harrowing or weeding or giving birth.
- gods that serve as a protector for a specific group, such as orphans or pregnant women.
- gods that represent a specific natural phenomenon or object such as the dawn, morning star, northern wind, lakes, perfectly round stones, sandstorms, etc.
- gods that are associated with unnatural everyday objects, such as farming tools, weapons, doorways, beds, etc.

I'm sure I forgot one or two types here, but you get the idea. Most of such gods would be so minor that they don't have any mythology and no defined place in the pantheon.

Don't know why I wrote all this, really. But it may something to keep in mind about polytheistic religion.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:53 pm

are we talking mara, kynareth, stendarr, akatosh etc? because if you go deeper than the nine that is just going to be a waste of resources.

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:07 pm

No, for syncretism go here: [url]http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Gods[/url]

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:23 pm

i think the altar should be right in the middle of the temple. i'd go with one that is a standard table like altar, maybe wood with some cloth on top and some abstract carvings. another one would be fancier, big stone carved with depictions of gods. i dont think that it matters what gods they are, between you and lutemoth we have depictions of probably 30 different looking deities. just slap some cool unique looking ones on an altar and the meaning becomes implicit. we dont have to explain what each of the gods are or why they are being honored, just allude to their presence.

for the smaller god shrines i was really thinking of [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=21347]this claim[/url]. except change up the masks (currently they are all snaky), maybe add some arms, make one fat or something...

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:56 pm

An altar with censers. On the front a design could be carved or painted. I made a simple one here.
[url=http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5930/trtemplealtar1.jpg][img]http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5930/trtemplealtar1.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Two altars, one a little unusual and one more crude than the others.
[url=http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7142/trtemplealtar2.jpg][img]http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7142/trtemplealtar2.th.jpg[/img][/url]

I might make a few more designs for carvings or paintings later.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:46 pm

I like the one with the piller. I think it could easly be created as a two-piece, with the alter itself being the same, but with different pillers in designs to match the 'primary' diety(s) worshiped in each of the temples.

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:12 pm

Sure, that's possible. Don't know if that's really necessary though, if each of those gods will get a statue and a fresco.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:20 pm

I was thinking of comparisons to the cyrodil alters, where the alters dedicated to different gods gave different blessings.

In this case, the piller itself would be the activator, not the entire alter. There-by allowing uniformity in style while alowing the activation effect to be altered at will.

Of course, this whole idea it moot if the plan was to get god blessings some other way all together. (I'm not sure if that has been covered as yet. I lack the patient to go though gods know how many posts to find out...)