Map 3 Detailing Claim #6

gro-Dhal · Post by **gro-Dhal** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:22 pm

I think it would be nice if outdoor theatre was a Dunmer 'thing'. Although it seems to me that the concept has been imported from elsewhere in the Empire.

Post by **Swiftoak** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:43 pm

Tyrion wrote:ehhh I'm not big on the cave idea. It gives a different route to the Dark Brotherhood for the vanilla mainquest line which I don't know we should tamper with even if it doesn't effect gameplay. The other two claims sound kosher, though I'm not the one to say definitively.

I must agree, with reservations.

There could be a possiblility where the cave is blocked until the player passes that stage of the Tribunal main quest.

But I still stand by Tyrion here.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:50 pm

no editing vanilla cells.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:13 pm

Another version of m3a6. This city of almalexia should be complete or at least almost complete.

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:06 am

Looking great, blackbird. A few things:

Did you add those ampoule pods & coda flowers to the Sarethan Quarter ramp gardens? Those really only belong in water (swamps), certainly not on dry ground.

In the Western Gate cell (21,-29), could you move the EX_MH_bazaar_booth_01 (red open-air tent) to the east just a bit? Its position now sort of covers up/hides/obscures the entrance to TR_i3-259.

The EX_MH_platform_02 in cell (21,-30) at 178908, -243696, 612 needs to be lowered just a bit; the other EX_MH_platform_02 it is supposed to be "connected with" is slightly lower, and you can tell that there's several inches difference. Have you talked to TF about creating an interior for the EX_MH_building_08 shell connected to the stage?

I'm not sure about the feasibility of those barrels stacked sideways in cell (23,-30), but I am sure they shouldn't be bleeding into each other.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:23 am

Haplo wrote:Have you talked to TF about creating an interior for the EX_MH_building_08 shell connected to the stage

Hey, remember, I'm not technically the HoI anymore. I'm just the guy who makes the narsis ints. I would just do this because I do love making new claims, but I am so INSANELY FUCKING busy that I am actually going to say let nomadic handle this one. He is, you know, the ACTUAL HOI.

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:25 am

ahhhh Freudian Slip crazy

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:58 am

Creating new ints soon...

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:58 am

Could someone possibly make Blackbird's cave int, so that at the least I could then bundle it with the Census and Excise lore correct travel mod I have? Because that would be lore correct travel, even if obviously against the no-conflicts protocol of TR itself.

Not if everyone's too busy elsewhere, obviously.

Some comments on Almalexia:

Some of the new 'space-filling' gardens look a bit out of place. For example, on the entrance to the Indoril District near the Dancing Racer club, I liked the old expansive courtyard. Now the player can barely see the city for a pile of rocks in some grass, which isn't as pretty as your other gardens, and also just looks 'dumped there' as opposed to plans. I'd suggest removing one or both of those gardens.

The fake Mournhold needs the exterior parts of the palace added. These are the ex_MH_palace_wall and tower pieces. They make a perfect fit to the exterior of the ex_MH_palace_courtyard piece. In addition, at the very least the 'pavillion' walls need to be removed from the inside, because they clip very obviously with the other walls. I'd suggest removing the other walls as well, frankly, because they're see through, which is probably worse than no walls at all.

The Mournhold temple will still show up as a massive lake on the mini-map. The terrain under Mournhold needs to be flattened, and if we're feeling cool, you could lower the terrain in places where there's actually water (so that the sewers/fountains) show up on the mini-map, but certainly not a massive lake where the Temple should be.

You need to search and replace any and all ex_MH_bazaar_tent in the city with TR_ex_MH_bazaar_tent, to get the version with cloth rather than stone textures.

The silt strider port area could do with some work. The bridge to the strider has noticable gaps still, and the main entry platform could do with some more detailing, IMO. It all looks a bit temporary and ad hoc right now.

Seeing the rickshaws at one of the entrances, are we intending to be running an equivalent to Vivec's gondoliers?

Not a ridiculous idea, but if so, you'd need to put in a couple more rickshaw stalls at other locations as well.

Many of your 'general trader' (as in 'two guars') banners use the interior mesh which will not blow in the wind. You need to use the exterior version. Some (haven't checked all) of your 'blowing in the wind' exterior banners are hung incorrectly from their posts. You need to imagine they were not blowing in the wind, and then place them accordingly, with the two 'hanging points' at the top being placed at the middle of the bottom of whatever they're hanging from.

Whenever we intend to have them open (which, BTW, should be from the start), the Gates of Symmachus (into Mournhold) need to be doors, not activators.

To the south of Velothril Avenue, immediately outside the walls there is a long strip of blank and featureless terrain. I have no idea whether you're yet to detail these places, but in any case, vegetation and so forth should move up to the walls.

The cells where the fake Mournhold is need to be named somehow. If I was really keen, I'd change the name of the dummy cell 'Mournhold' to 'Dummy Cell' and call them Mournhold, but unfortunately that'd probably cause conflicts with any mod (possibly including Tribunal) that filters dialogue for 'Mournhold'. Because that's probable, a better name would be 'Almalexia, Mournhold' or 'Mournhold-Almalexia' or 'Almalexia-Mournhold' (whichever of the latter two is the official name of the city as a whole - I forget).

Also, someone needs to do Gez's trick with the doors whereby each of the five Mournhold cells (Godsreach, Bazaar, Temple, Brindisi Dorom, Palace) has a door placed somewhere far out of the way in it which teleports to the fake version of itself in the actual exterior, so the mini-map can look pretty (note that this will cause 0 conflict with any mod because adding items to cells is accepted happily by multiple mods in Morrowind, unlike Oblivion). This can be ignored for Brindisi Dorom, because its doors will now teleport to Triffith Sandil. (to create its doors, we need to create a door copy of the existing activator, and place it a few tiny milimetres infront of the activator, so that the new object is the only one an in-game player will see. Yes this would 'conflict' with any mod that actually just flat-out replaced the door (i.e. every 'mour Mournhold' mod ever), but a) who cares because people using those won't use TR, and vice versa, and b) if anyone's desperate to use both, they can disable our door or TCL through it to reach the old door (because again, placing objects can't cause a real 'conflict', only clipping at worst - which is still worth avoiding, but no one's gonna have put anything where the Mournhold doors are without it clipping anyway, so there'd be no visible change). Phew.

You've also removed the Mournhold barrier bowl. Put dat back! (and make sure it goes exactly where MowSkwoz had it first) (EDIT: Now that it's no longer needed, you should delete it and its script from the file)

A few further errors - the 'big courtyard building' with the various Guild halls (Tailors, Farmers etc.) is still inaccessible due to a collision error. Haplo mentioned something about an Indoril shed being the cause of the problem? Someone needs to fix that.

Additionally, any of the instances with the 'big gateways' (such as the entrance to that courtyard, and the entrances to Almalexia itself) have huge amounts of ugly flickering. One of the gateway halves needs to be moved one unit away from its partner (so one unit down, and one unit left, for example) so that this hideous flickering will not mar the player's entrance to the city, and that the gates still look fine.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:02 pm

Haplo told me the Sarethan Quarter siltstrider port used to have three docks for the striders, but that it got reduced to one. To me, this seems wrong, considering the immense size of the city, the major travel it gets, and this being the goddamn capital of Morrowind.

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:10 pm

Hmm, I think I have to agree with you there Aeven, it does seem pretty odd to just have one.

One issue about that exterior cell, If I recall though, the poly count is pretty high in that cell is it not? (i dont have the CS open atm) Im just wondering how much another port/dock would increase the reference & poly count by, and whether its stable or not.

Valid to say though it does need another port. There really should be more than 4 locations of destination.

(@ Blackbird - Should I delete the other MH flora in the wilderness?

The answer would depend on what else is surrounding enviroment looks like in that area, I'm sure there is a few wild areas of these plants, but I'd have to see for myself to tell you if it needs to be removed/altered or not

( @BC - dude awesome Typholosion avatar!)

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:52 pm

Oh, a suggestion: signs showing district directions. The city is big, very big.

I was also wondering if the rickshaws are intended to provide actual transport services throughout the city (like Vivec gondolas), because that would make sense.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:07 pm

Aeven wrote:Oh, a suggestion: signs showing district directions. The city is big, very big.

Seems kinda pointless when in effect travel through Almalexia is either one way or the other.

I was also wondering if the rickshaws are intended to provide actual transport services throughout the city (like Vivec gondolas), because that would make sense.

That was the plan.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:23 pm

Aeven wrote:Oh, a suggestion: signs showing district directions. The city is big, very big.

I was also wondering if the rickshaws are intended to provide actual transport services throughout the city (like Vivec gondolas), because that would make sense.

There will be rickshaws! The shape of the city Almalexia is some kind of a rotated U-shape. Going from the Triffith Sandil plaza to the Indoril quarters will take some time if you intend to travel through the city.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:15 am

RelinQ wrote:One issue about that exterior cell, If I recall though, the poly count is pretty high in that cell is it not? (i dont have the CS open atm) Im just wondering how much another port/dock would increase the reference & poly count by, and whether its stable or not.

Adding one more silt strider port would add maybe a dozen to two dozen statics, and actual strider.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:37 am

The whole strider port needs a bit of a cleanup.

Two striders would be the max of sensible, I think, though.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:02 pm

A bit of a cleanup?

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:15 pm

A 'creative look over'. At present, it looks a bit half-thought out, rather than a fully working idea.

e.g. the huge expanse of empty space ringing the bazaar, the big holes and seams in the strider port itself, etc.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:08 pm

I think it looks fine; the space around the tables is for vendors and for people to walk. It's the capital city, it's bound to get a lot of traffic. There's not *that* much space, unless it's been changed and I haven't seen it.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:23 pm

I had an idea, but you might think it's really dumb. If it is, ignore me. But the idea is the following: as this is the capital of Morrowind, the city houses various embassies of Great Houses (I don't know about the other provinces, but I know this to be the case.) As a decoration on the building where the embassies are, consider hanging the really big banners (the Vivec style ones).

Know, the idea came to me because I found our Dres version, and it looks great, but perhaps this could also make the building purpose more obvious to the player. Something similar should be done for the Cathedral of Almalexia in my opinion.

Keep up the great work on Almalexia and the surroundings blackbird!

(@Thrig: there's a tiny error in the second level of the Cathedral with an overlapping of a tile)

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:11 pm

Ave, I think we have embassies all in one big tower, if I'm not mistaken.

And Hap, here's what I'm talking about. You can see the contrast (in my opinion, anyway) between the huge bustling market with loads of refs, and then just the totally under-detailed rest of the pavilion which just seems a waste of space. A tent or two and a lamppost. It just seems slightly weird.

The inability to vertex shade the static floor here also lends to the 'off' atmosphere.

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:23 pm

Oh it used to be much busier than that. I agree it should have some more "stuff" along the outside.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:19 pm

There are 5 embassies in 1 tower, but that tower is not easy to find.
I've added one more silt strider port.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:59 am

Several of the important buildings in Almalexia are hard to find, and could use appropriate decoration. I have no idea what the Cathedral of Almalexia could use.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:30 pm

We should probably let in game dialogue direct the players, like on Vvardenfell.

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:33 pm

Or have an in-game buy the player can buy?

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:36 pm

You mean map? If someone like theviking is up for making one, yeah.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:51 pm

Haplo wrote:You mean map? If someone like theviking is up for making one, yeah.

Sounds cool! There is now a bookseller at the silt strider port. If someone wanted to make a city map of Almalexia, i know where I can put them.

Edit: the west of Almalexia should be complete.
I'll also upload the mod which allows to have a connection between Mournhold and almalexia. The file seems dirty, but that's because I worked a bit on almalexia while the file was being active.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:03 pm

I used to draw maps when I was a younger nerdier version of myself. Would it be possible for me to scan something that you could use?

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:29 pm

I could make some unique Vivec city-style banners if desired. I can't make the actual designs etc, but can bannerise them and make the game assets for them to be added to TR_Data. Just say yes and what's needed, and you'll have them asap. I think this'd be nice for the entry into the Indoril Quarter from the Cloister for example.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:59 pm

I think we should let the person in charge of TR_Data be the one who "just says yes" on things that go into it. Aeven, we know you'd love nothing more than to make some fucking banners. You've said it like fifty fucking times along with everything else you would just love to do. Please just shut the fuck up a little bit.

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:00 am

Haplo wrote:Aeven, we know you'd love nothing more than to make some fucking banners. You've said it like fifty fucking times along with everything else you would just love to do. Please just shut the fuck up a little bit.

I'm sorry, but that was completely uncalled for. He was only making a suggestion. If you wanted him to stop, a PM would have sufficed.

I never normally say anything, but I really wish people would be a bit more polite on this forum. It costs nothing.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:16 am

Aeven has become a habitual repeat offender. I have PMed, queried, confronted on IRC both indirectly and directly, and yet it persists. You can probably tell from my several thousand other posts that including the word fuck half a dozen times in such a short post is very out of the norm for me, so it's obviously taking a lot to bring that sort of reaction about. Every five seconds it's "Haplo what else can I do" *question* "Haplo what is there to do after I finish this" "Haplo can we add this" *question* "Haplo can we add that" *question question question question* "Haplo what about these" *question*

Sometimes we just have to sit on our hands or twiddle our thumbs for a little while, everyone can't be doing something all the time.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:26 am

...

I would just like to clarify that it was me who mused about banners just then, prompting Aeven's post.

I saw Blackbird's work, which I liked, and commented that more would be better. I remembered someone suggesting custom banners (couldn't remember who, but it evidently must have been Aeven) and didn't want to seem like I was stealing their idea.

Sorry.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 10:10 pm

I understand you now BC, thank you for your explanation.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:18 am

Might I suggest putting some of the existing dunmer saint banners on the exterior of the cathedral? I used a whole bunch of them inside and it'd fit nicely. An alma statue might also be fitting, assuming the place doesn't already have too many statues.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:30 pm

There are 3 cells with Rm stones and textures. Should I leave them unharmed, or should I replace those with WG stones and textures?
I those rm rocks should be untouched, which kind of flora should I add?

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:13 pm

Could you take a screenshot of the area?

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:34 am

Here is a quick Map of Mournhold:

[url]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/Relinquished_kaos/almalexiamournholdmapold2.jpg[/url]

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:17 am

That's a badass map. Would be great for book art.