Felix's Showcase

[jonarus_drakus]

Sods law I suppose.

In Australia we call it Murphies Law (anything that can go wrong will go wrong).

About the quest issues, all i can really say is that perhaps a third (i think its actualy fourth now) party should try it, as at this point i am increasingly inclined to believe that the problem is on my end (i seriously have like a 100 mods all running at once, so problems like this should not be taken as suprising).

I'm not quite sure how it would work logisticaly, but asuming you didn't want to rist messing with you quest showcase to much than i for one would be happy for to submit a seperate .esp as an interior showcase.

Keep up the good work.

[FelixAmherst]

You mean make a new esp? I actually wouldn't mind working on something fresh.

But still, it was a shame that my quest always had an error.

Murphies Law eh? I'll remember that one...

[FelixAmherst]

Again, sorry for the double post...

Here is a new esp "Hiraka Village." A long time ago I started this idea of a village, but knew jack-s**t about interior style. I have improved since then and scrapped the interiors and started anew.

You will notice that there are three houses in the settlement, but only one is accessible, this is because I am waiting on the feedback I get on my first house and then I will use that feedback to make that first house PERFECT before moving onto the next. And of course I am using this as my showcase for TR

As before, please ignore my horrid attempts at an exterior, Ive not yet finished with that, but I hope my Interior is up to scratch. I know its not perfect and I would really love to improve interior design.

The village is just below Chorrol and the only house accessible is "Kitas Clothing store." Yes the big, upper class house.

Her store is in the basement level. Once again, I hate Gridsnap...

Hope you like it.

[RelinQ]

Once again, I hate Gridsnap...

You may hate it now, but god it makes everything alot easier. If your building an interior, building actual rooms and caves is a lifesaver.

[FelixAmherst]

Oh dont get me wrong, I've used it before in many things. Heck, I've used it in this mod to make the basement. But its just such a laborious process to get the right snap level. Still, as you say, its worth it so you dont get those horrid collision "Hash" lines.

EDIT - To the person who has already downloaded, please delete and download updated version above. It's nothing major, but the door in the basement opened the wring way. I really cant stand that happening, when a door pushes the player backwards...

[jonarus_drakus]

Not sure which version of your esp i got, but i didn't notice any 'wrong' opening doors so "meh". Overall, both inside and out are quite well done, with only a small number of problems that i could see:

GENERAL:
The mod is (as best i could tell) totaly clean.


EXTERIOR:
> While the location is very flat to begin with, using it for your town draws attention to the unnatural flatness of the terrain. This isn't your fault at all, but when your going over this again, try and smoth things out a little, just so the unnatural plateu in the vanilla terain isnt so obvious (This will have the bonus effect of showing you can handle terrain manipulation if you do it right).
> The 'paved' ground texture is almost perfect, just a few tweeks around the edges to make it transition into the surrounding terrain a little better. Also, where you have those four shrubs between the UC house and the garden, change the terrain to dirt (so the shrubs dont look like they are growing through a supposedly paved surface).
> Either add a gate to the small garden enclosure or lower the walls into the ground until they can be walked over (recomend gate).
> Add more semi-enclosed gardens around (and between) the houses for decoration. You could in fact use stone walls to link the buildings together (leaving the one side open) to 'restrict' the way people can access the settlement.
>Add/change the local pathgrids to match the area.

Considering the small amount of time you said you spent on the exterior work, your little town is actually quite nice.


INTERIOR:
> You MUST add a northmarker to both of you interior cells!
> The 'tiny' wine bottles and breadloaves, while kinda cute, are not realistic. Making things smaller (or larger) than normal is all well and good, but dont let yourself go to far with it.
> The bed should be rotated 180 degrees, it just looks odd with the pillow end not up against the wall.
> The Tapestries that are hanging either side of the front door 'bleed' into the wall pillers. This can look good if done right, but you need to make some adjustments to make it look 'narural' or make them smaller so they can fit into the gaps without bleeding at all.
> You should add a couple more chairs around the dining table. Sure, only one person lives there, but what if she gets visitors? (this is an immersion issue, not a technical one).
> The decorations on the shop level are a little un-even. Mening that there are to many decorations (paintings and tapestries) in some areas and none at all in others.
> Aside from a single grid point in the shop itself that was floating (its sitting on a light), you interior pathgrids are good (if a little on the basic side - as in more could be added - In my opinion anyway).
> All of your 'activator furnature' (chairs, & beds) float a little bit. Furnature like this needs to be "Fed" at least 3 times (from my experience) before it will actually be in contact with the surface.

Overall, it is neat & tidy while still looking sufficiently lived in. Fix these few errors and i will have no problem with giving you my recomendation.

Keep up the good work!

JD

PS: I hate gridsnap too, but especialy with modular interiors it is absolutely necisary.

[FelixAmherst]

Right-O, I'll get to work on that as soon as I can. I like my wine bottles. In truth, since I was going to have this mod have a backstory of being slightly oriental, (hence the name of the village, Kita and the fact that her eyes are just slightly tweaked), I was going to have a "Saki"
drink section in the local inn, when I get round to it. But if you think its silly then ill re think.

Thanks for the quick reply and comments, as always.

Oh and with the pathnodes, I didnt think it necessary to add a large network, since it is hardly ever used. (Kita only has 2 packages + the usual wander package, which is never used anyway.)

EDIT - Ok, updated version below. I've done all the interior things you mentioned and added a gate to the garden. However, when I tried to texture the ground under the shrubs and the cobblestones, I had an engine problem. It wouldnt texture. So ill give it a few days to have its hissy fit, and then try again.

Hope the Interior is up to standard.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

Oh dont get me wrong, I've used it before in many things. Heck, I've used it in this mod to make the basement. But its just such a laborious process to get the right snap level. Still, as you say, its worth it so you dont get those horrid collision "Hash" lines.

two things. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS use a power of two with grid snap. Also, you need to use snap to reference to avoid those hash lines in oblivion. select an architectural reference in your interior as the target, then move every piece to snap it on to it. Oblivion is retarded in that it requires this tool, but apart from its retarded problem fixing powers, it is also useful with fences and other items you may want to snap at weird angles.

[FelixAmherst]

Thanks for the tip. I had used both those things in my mod, always do, I just don't LIKE them. But you wont find any hash lines in my mod. At least i hope not...

For some reason I swear they give me a migraine if I'm walking around a cave or a basement and up pops a hash line. Equally true if there is a small gap between the two tiles...

[Thrignar Fraxix]

If you don't like them, can you stomach seeking and fixing them? If so, maybe you should try and become a reviewer after you get promoted. (though there aren't many oblivion interiors at the moment, we have all of 2 oblivion reviewers last I checked)

[FelixAmherst]

I suppose I could try. Extra pair of eyes is always good. First though, I need to try and make my mod perfect and therefore get promoted.

And also I'd need my migraine-relief tablets =P

[blackbird]

Gridsnap isn't bad. It allows you to use more combinations, instead of using one interior shell. But gridsnap will become a lot easier when you use the button with 'grids' and the button with the angle. You still have to use the Z button.
It's easier to use gridsnap and create semaless interiors, then beating some self repairing crab robot.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

can you tell we like gridsnap around here?

[FelixAmherst]

Seriously, Its like a religion or something...

Just to clear it up, for opinions sake, I USE gridsnap, anglesnap, snap to reference, F key, Z key, X key, middle mouse button, left + right mouse button and the preferences window. I just dont like using gridsnap. Its like marmite. - Which I also dont like...

But, as before, my hatred of hash lines comes before my hatred of gridnsap. And Gaps. And marmite.

[Haplo]

omg who doesnt like marmite

[Monkey Man]

Sods law I suppose.

In Australia we call it Murphies Law (anything that can go wrong will go wrong).

About the quest issues, all i can really say is that perhaps a third (i think its actualy fourth now) party should try it, as at this point i am increasingly inclined to believe that the problem is on my end (i seriously have like a 100 mods all running at once, so problems like this should not be taken as suprising).

I'm not quite sure how it would work logisticaly, but asuming you didn't want to rist messing with you quest showcase to much than i for one would be happy for to submit a seperate .esp as an interior showcase.

Keep up the good work.

I was just reading this and if I am correct, Murphy's law is misspelled.Sorry, I have many typos, just not names

[Thrignar Fraxix]

please refrain from needlessly correcting minor spelling errors in old posts.

[FelixAmherst]

omg who doesnt like marmite

Me. Its not the taste, It's the fact that I nearly chocked on the slice of bread it was on. I haven't tried it since I was 4, which was a LONG time ago.

Maybe i shouldn't have mentioned the whole gridsnap thing. But honesty is good right?

[jonarus_drakus]

omg who doesnt like marmite

Me. Its not the taste, It's the fact that I nearly chocked on the slice of bread it was on. I haven't tried it since I was 4, which was a LONG time ago.

Maybe i shouldn't have mentioned the whole gridsnap thing. But honesty is good right?

Just like me and Coca Cola, i drank some, then threw up all over myself, black vomit is very disturbing...

On the subject of Honesty, i think it may be a good time for: Another episode of 'Good idea' 'Bad idea'

GOOD IDEA: Being honest about something important (like gridsnap apparently)
BAD IDEA: Being honest about the fact that the clothes your signifigant other is wearing actually do make thier bum look big (trust me, i wont end well!).


How about somethin important then? Like a review of your updated showcase perhaps? Yes? Good, coz i was going to either way:

INTERIOR:
> There are two tapestries at the foot of the bed that 'float' they need to be pushed into the wall. If you cant do so without the wall sticking trough the tapestries they need to be re-adjusted, re-sized, or re-moved all together (or any combination there-of. Need not be applied to both tapestries, so long as there are no floaters).
> There are still the un-realisticaly sized wine bottles and breadloaves. Either re-size them or re-move them (not a major issue so long as you remember WHY its an issue, just kinda annoying to see them).
> Shop level decorations are better, but (though it may just be me) they do still seem off somehow... not important really.
> As best i can tell they are all fine now, but i feel its important to re-iterate the proper placement of 'activator furanature'. MAKE SURE there is no gap by "F"ing each a minimum of 3 times. This, i suspect, is something that is quite easy to forget to do.
> With the front door tapestries: Were you unable to get the right side one to fit properly or something? Personaly i thought having one on either side look nice, but only one looks a little un-balenced.

Overall, you definitely seem to know what your doing, in a technical sense at least (stylistic sense will develope with time, so its not an outright requirement for me - Just try to give yourself a little story about the locations you work on. Once you have the story behind the location, ideas as to how it should look will 'flow' alot easier). Lets see what you can do with the other houses. If you can apply the same level of technical proficiency, while also ensuring that they look suitably 'unique', then i can see no reason why the powers that be will act on my recomendation for promotion for interiors (Keep working while you wait though, if only to pass the time).


EXTERIOR:
> The well is the wrong style. The Chorrol style well can be found under: Statics- Architecture- Castle- "CastleWell01"
> The benches around the well need to be adjusted to fit the terrain which is un-even (causing the benches to float at one end but be on the ground at the other end), this will require complex rotations, not just position changes.
> The terrain under the shrubs still needs to be changed.
> The gate housing is currently to tall. The gate posts are high above the wall posts causing an un-balenced look. Take the hight ('z') of the wall posts and apply that same value to the gateway for a more uniform look.

You seem technicaly proficient in this area, but not so much as you are with interiors. Keep practising, time and experience my be all you need here.

[FelixAmherst]

Thanks for the review and recommendation. I will certainly fix those errors, and I agree with the door tapestry. I have NO idea why I deleted it... Probably was going to add a new one. But forgot. My bad.

With the exterior I've hit a wall. I can change the well etc, but the texturing wont want to work. I'd love to post a video of what happens, but its like the ground texture is "frozen" in place. I cant change the texture under the shrubs or anywhere in Hiraka. The same happened in... I think it was Kvatch rebuilt. The burnt ground texture just would not change. I put it down to engine problem.

But once I fix these errors, I will then move onto my next house. But one question. If I make that second house, and upload it here in my showcase, will it "downgrade" my recommendation if it isn't good? But of course it will be good...

Thanks again JD.

[jonarus_drakus]

The exterior cell probably has reached its 'max textures' limit. To find out, open the hightmap/ground texture/vertex shading menu, click within the cell in question and hit 'i'. It will bring up a list of all the textures currently in use within the cell (divided into four 'quads'). Use the list to delete/replace any texture you dont want, there-by freeing up space for you to add more.

Somebody else could probably explain it better, i fear i may have rambled (i do that sometimes).

In terms of the interior recomendation, i gave it because i believe that you have all the skills neccisary, and that those areas that you are not 100% on are those that can be improved only with experience, somethin i hope you enjoy aquiring here at TR.

As always, keep up the good work!

[FelixAmherst]

Ah. Actually I think I should be able to follow those instructions. As always thank you JD for the advice. That is not something I learned at the CS wiki. They do say experience is the best teacher.

Thanks again.

(BTW I also now hate tapestries... ugh)

[Thrignar Fraxix]

Review Time:
Clothier:
Lighting seems too bright.
We generally put the northmarker OUTSIDE of the building. Its not visible, but it is good modding practice.
mysterious akavir floats
as do the two goblets next to it
static candles on their side - while seemingly a good idea, if they are on their side, they are not stuck to the surface by wax, meaning that unless they are havoked, it will be strange (and they are not) remove them.
cloth bolt on upstairs dresser is floating
chest near bed floats on one side
Also, all the errors jonarus found

shop floor:
Few floaters on the counter

overall:
seems to be a gratuitous number of paintings in this building
probably ought to tone the number down a bit

Fix these errors and you should be ready for an interior promotion.

[FelixAmherst]

Ok, ill get onto those errors. WHen you say lighting, do you mean the cell lighting, or the actual lights in the level?

[Thrignar Fraxix]

cell lighting

[FelixAmherst]

Ok. Take 3. Or 2. Fix'd all my errors. I turned the lighting down a tad. Made it look real dark, so I added two more lights.
My tables must really hate Mysterious Akavir, since all but one of them were floating. But that too is fixed. Shop counter is a shocker. But meh. We'll see.

Hope this puppy is better.

[Lady Nerevar]

a bolt of cloth floated upstairs, the chest by the bed bled into the wall a tiny amount. other than that it looked good. both of these errors were negligence enough for me to recomend you. I'll leave Thrig to do the actual paperwork, but i think this is good

[Thrignar Fraxix]

Sorry, I don't take people's words for things when it comes to reviews. I will be doing my own and THEN deciding for myself if a promotion is warranted.

Overall:
No ownership is set, I should have noticed this before, sorry.

changing things up a bit, reviewing the shop floor first:
Wall sconce to the right isn't set into the wall entirely
final wall sconce on the left before the door is too far into the beam and looks strange
final wall sconce on the right before the door is floating off the beam
almost everything on the table on the right in the room floats ever so slightly
clothing in the display case both floats and bleeds
posting of the hunt floats slightly

Next Cell:
candle on its side near the bed
I forget, is it neccesary to give the person's bed a unique ID in order to program the AI. I don't recall having to do it but it has been a while...
more candles on their side...
cloth bolt still floating...
chest bleeds into the wall
blue folded cloth on top of the other one floats
replica glass dagger floats

Conclusion:
While many of these errors are small, they are still rather numerous. (also, some of the old ones weren't fixed) The rule around here is that after we review a file 3 times, the modder has to make a new one. However since your exterior has been pretty much entirely neglected so far, I'd recommend you simply add an interior to one of the other 2 buildings and we will review that.

[FelixAmherst]

*sigh* ok. Well, just means I need to look closer. Perhaps I started too big...

I could of sworn I set ownership.

[jonarus_drakus]

Just take your time and be careful with the 'little details'. It is far too easy to forget the less obvious things when your busy trying to create a specific look. The fact that i missed errors that were later pointed out by Thrig is a prime example of failing to take the time to ensure all levels of work are at the best posible standard (reviewing in my case).

So, while i stand by my belief that you are at the very least close to ready, it is up to you to take the last step. Well, you to take the step and the likes of Thrig or LN to make it official.

As always, keep up the good work.

JD

[FelixAmherst]

Thanks for the advice. Both before and now. And I have learned the lesson to look hard for all the things like floaters. But I made the mistake of choosing the upper class house first. Im now moving on to the middle class house over the way.

Is it wrong to include DUN prefixes in a house? I am making an 'abandoned house' feel and some of the broken crates will look good in the design. As a reference I am using the abandoned house in cheydinhal. They used broken crates in that.

Thanks again.

[jonarus_drakus]

The anti style mixing rule can be loosened somewhat under circumstances like this where the mixing is a direct REQUIREMENT to achieve the best possible end result. Your example of the abandoned house in Cheydenhal is a good example of how to do it right.

Just remember thats its the little details (both practical and stylistic) that turn a good interior into a great interior. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

JD

[Beave]

Your example of the abandoned house in Cheydenhal is a good example of how to do it right.

In fact, that is always a good idea when you're trying to make a specific look - look at Bethesda's original work, and even the approved TR interiors more-so. (Just don't do any copying/pasting, that's crossing the line.)

[FelixAmherst]

I never copy and paste interiors. That would just look stupid. I once downloaded a mod where this guy had co C+P'ed an entire cave system (charcoal cave, i believe.) He even kept all the clutter -.-

EDIT (if anyone is still reading - I wont make a double post) - I am using pieces from the RFN fort dungeon set to make a 'secret area under cellar' thing, and when I fit a piece onto the 'UndrgTransitionFortRuin' piece, I get a gap. Its tiny, but its a gap. I noticed bethesda had this same gap on several of there layouts too. Can this one gap be ignored, or shall I try and cover it up with statics?

[Thrignar Fraxix]

if it is in bethesda interiors it is most likely that most dreaded of things... AN INHERENT TILESET ERROR!

Bethesda didn't take into account the opinions of the super anal when designing most of the tilesets of OB. If you look closely, there are holes and gaps all over. One of my least favorite offenders is the interior for the Inns. You can see the basement from near the entrance if you look the right way.

This means it is fine, though you can try to cover it up with statics.

[FelixAmherst]

Ugh seriously. Most of the cheydinhal houses have gaps staring you in the face. But I was worried with this one because there is not much room for me to put a static in without it looking like a pigsty on roast pork day.

Thanks for letting me know that, puts a worry off my mind.

Another nag = Old fort doors. They just DONT fit the doorway. Ba**ards.

[FelixAmherst]

Now I dont know If I should do a double post, since it contains an attachment and its not really spam. If not, then my bad.

Ok, lets try THIS one... The house over the road from Kita's is Kinshiro's house. You will soon notice it is abandoned. At least the top half. The fun lies in the basement and beyond.

Keep in mind that this is my first fort, and I am not certain that it is... well cluttered enough. But if I add more then, it may look too new. But you say im allowed 3 reviews before its game over, if whoever is reviewing says its too bear, then that will be corrected, much to my displeasure. I like it the way it is. But im not a reviewer.

Also, if you wonder why there is blood and a body upstairs, read kinshiro's diary. I was going to have it a quest. In due time.

Here we go again...

(Once more sorry for the double post.)

EDIT - Missed ownership of Kinshiros house. Also, bear in mind i have not edited kitas house, so dont bother to check that one. Nothing has changed, but when I finalize it, i will fix all errors with it.

[FelixAmherst]

*BUMP*

Its been a week since anything happened here, so...

But a question, to make this bump meaningful...

Is it good enough to get a rough placement of objects using havok, but then placing them by hand afterward? I ask this cause i wanted to give some items a 'thrown around' feel to them, but i made sure they were F'd and adjusted by hand afterward.

Thanks.

[jonarus_drakus]

That should be fine, its the end result were looking at after all.

Will have a look at the new house adn get back to you in the next day or two.

[FelixAmherst]

Sounds good to me. Im off holiday now, so lotsa time to kill. Before school in a couple more weeks....