BethesdaLove's Showcase

[BethesdaLove]

Hey, I've just finished my interior for my showcase. It's a 'Poor Dunmeric Shack', based of Hla Oad's houses.

A few things I'm not sure of:
'light_com_candle_04' isn't 'de'.
'bk_wordsclanmother' is Khajiit, but only 10 instances exist, is it too rare?
Ri'Dat is a member of the Thieves Guild, as Hla Oad doesn't have a Thieves Guild base, would members live far from bases?

These can all be changed if need be, enjoy.

[Shapeshiftr]

First of all, let me welcome you to the TR forums! If you have any questions, feel free to ask them here or under the Help Forum.

Let's take a look at your interior-

Looks like your file is clean, except for two things- two lights that you made- the fire and the lantern. Both are objects already in the CS. I noticed you changed them to pretty high light settings. As a basic rule of thumb, interior lights should be no more than 256 for lamps/fires, and 128 is a good level usually for lanterns and candles.

You'll notice the light more if you change the ambient light settings, which I noticed you hadn't. Look at some other similar interiors to get an idea of what the light settings should be. You had, however changed the sunlight, which is good. Once you get ambient light in there, modify the sunlight slightly to match its color. Same with the fog, but on a low level.

Ok, I didn't find any bleeding or floating objects, good. Shows that you checked this over before submitting. [explanation] In case you didn't know what bleeders/floaters were- bleeders are objects that "bleed" into another object, or intersect with it unnecessarily. For example a bottle that sinks into the floor. Bedrolls are fine to bleed, as well as some other objects. Floaters, similarly, are objects that aren't touching anything, like the floor or a shelf. [/explanation]

There weren't much objects to speak of. This interior is pretty sparsely decorated. Look at other interiors in Hla Oad, and you'll see they're packed full with crates, tables, barrels, and other stuff. Right now, your shack is a shelf, a fire, and a sleeping space. Add some food to the table, add a few containers, spruce the place up a bit.

To answer your questions-
Yep, use _de candles in a _de interior.
That book, from what I've read, is an ancient khajit history somethingorother, and I believe it is unique.
There are Thieves Guild members abound in Fatleg's Dropoff

Last thing, as a suggestion, you should probably do a hlaalu middle class house with de_r furniture for your showcase, or something like that. de_p furniture is really annoying to get right, because nothing has even surfaces.


Good luck, and happy modding!

[Katze]

Your showcase is too small. We want to see ints that use more than one shell piece to show that you know how to use gridsnap.

-the int is way too sparsely decorated, and could be improved with containers like baskets, crates and barrels, to name but a few things that would improve it.

-the book on the floor doesn't take into account the uneven surface of the floor. It would need to be rotated to lay flat on the floor.

-why did you create new lights with really overly high light radii? The max radius for lights in interiors should be 128 or it makes the surrounding area too bright. The cell's light settings should be changed to reflect that of other shacks, anyway.

-The NPC with the unique dialogue was a nice touch, just remember that NPCs aren't added by interior modders, but later on.

To answer your questions, Thieves guild members live wherever they want, and I'm pretty sure there are already TG members in Hla Oad, so it's fine.

The candle should be ok even if de stuff is preferable, it's with furn_ statics that it's really strict on style mixing.

I'm pretty sure the book is fine, as long as the NPC possessing it is Khajiit, so in claims it's probably best to leave placement of such things to the NPCer unless the claim description states the house is to contain a Khajiit.


Anyway, I'd advise making a new showcase .esp using one of the available Dunmer styles Redoran, Hlaalu, Telvanni or Indoril (with them being the most commonly used ones) so that you can show your ability with gridsnap.

EDIT: Damn, beaten to it by Shapeshiftr >.<

[BethesdaLove]

First of all, let me welcome you to the TR forums! If you have any questions, feel free to ask them here or under the Help Forum.

Let's take a look at your interior-

Thank you!

Looks like your file is clean, except for two things- two lights that you made- the fire and the lantern. Both are objects already in the CS.

The reason I did this was to make them non-pickupable, aswell as change the light settings.

I noticed you changed them to pretty high light settings. As a basic rule of thumb, interior lights should be no more than 256 for lamps/fires, and 128 is a good level usually for lanterns and candles.

OK, I'll dim it down next time, I guess I just prefer this brighter lighting in Oblivion.

You'll notice the light more if you change the ambient light settings, which I noticed you hadn't. Look at some other similar interiors to get an idea of what the light settings should be. You had, however changed the sunlight, which is good. Once you get ambient light in there, modify the sunlight slightly to match its color. Same with the fog, but on a low level.

Ok, once again I'll change that next time.

Ok, I didn't find any bleeding or floating objects, good. Shows that you checked this over before submitting. [explanation] In case you didn't know what bleeders/floaters were- bleeders are objects that "bleed" into another object, or intersect with it unnecessarily. For example a bottle that sinks into the floor. Bedrolls are fine to bleed, as well as some other objects. Floaters, similarly, are objects that aren't touching anything, like the floor or a shelf. [/explanation]

Thank god, I spent a while checking for that sort of thing, though like Cathartis said, the book bleeds into the floor, didn't notice that.

There weren't much objects to speak of. This interior is pretty sparsely decorated. Look at other interiors in Hla Oad, and you'll see they're packed full with crates, tables, barrels, and other stuff. Right now, your shack is a shelf, a fire, and a sleeping space. Add some food to the table, add a few containers, spruce the place up a bit.

OK, I'll be sure to add more stuff in the future, but I wasn't sure about food as when plates/bowls ect. get taken away they float.

To answer your questions-
Yep, use _de candles in a _de interior.
That book, from what I've read, is an ancient khajit history somethingorother, and I believe it is unique.
There are Thieves Guild members abound in Fatleg's Dropoff

I didn't think it was unique because in the object view thingy the 'Count' was 10, and I think that means there are 10 instances in the world, though I'm not sure.

Last thing, as a suggestion, you should probably do a hlaalu middle class house with de_r furniture for your showcase, or something like that. de_p furniture is really annoying to get right, because nothing has even surfaces.

Well I have just finished the architecture for a rich Hlaalu house, and Cathartis says the shack is to small anyway.

Good luck, and happy modding!

Cheers! And thanks to Cathartis too, but I realised by your first sentence it's to small, I think I'll furnish my Hlaalu shell and go with that.

[Shapeshiftr]

Good, I'll review your Hlaalu house when you get it up.

By unique I meant it's a veryveryvery rare book.

Use the plates under misc items.

There are some non-pickupable candles under lights.

Does the book bleed? I didn't notice it, but if Cath says so, I guess it does. Anyway, the bleeder itself isn't as important as the fact that you checked over your work, which is a great aspect of any modder and commendable.

[Katze]

Anything placed onto a shack floor without any rotation will bleed and/or float. They have uneven dirt floors. For heavier things it's okay to let them bleed into the ground a little bit as they would naturally sink into the ground after being there a while in real life too, but light, frequently used things like books and lamps must rest on the floor, requiring rotation and care.

[BethesdaLove]

Finally finished my rich Hlaalu house, lets hope there aren't too many errors.

EDIT: Forget to check Illegal To Sleep Here, updated.

[Katze]

-the dining area is way too sparse. put some bookcase displays, or a seating area, or planters, anything to fill up space and make the place lived in.
-the walls look very bare. place more tapestries, and more rugs on the floor too perhaps.
-style mixing. the chandelier and the silverware are imperial.
-you needlessly created a new book and containers. just use the ones provided unless absolutely necessary or if specified in the claim description.
-"Illegal to sleep here" not checked (havent seen the updated file you speak of, so it might be fixed)
-when you scale up a rug, you should sink them a bit into the ground so as to not make it look like ridiculously thick shagpile
-try not to have objects half-on, half-off of rugs, as they end up floating on one side or bleeding through the rug on the other.
-your de_r shelf needs to be sunk into the wall more, currently it's not even touching the wall

There are probably other errors, but I don't currently have any free time to search further. Just take these on as pointers, and someone else might come along to point out anything extra.

[BethesdaLove]

-the dining area is way too sparse. put some bookcase displays, or a seating area, or planters, anything to fill up space and make the place lived in.
-the walls look very bare. place more tapestries, and more rugs on the floor too perhaps.
-you needlessly created a new book and containers. just use the ones provided unless absolutely necessary or if specified in the claim description.
-"Illegal to sleep here" not checked (havent seen the updated file you speak of, so it might be fixed)
-when you scale up a rug, you should sink them a bit into the ground so as to not make it look like ridiculously thick shagpile
-try not to have objects half-on, half-off of rugs, as they end up floating on one side or bleeding through the rug on the other.
-your de_r shelf needs to be sunk into the wall more, currently it's not even touching the wall

Done!

-style mixing. the chandelier and the silverware are imperial.

I've removed the chandelier, but what cuttlery can I use? A browse of the object window and a text search show that silverware and wood are the only options, both com. Even so, forgetting tags, surely silverware would be used over wood in any rich household.

That said, here is the update.

[BethesdaLove]

That's a working week, bumpity bump for the weekend.

[Evil Eye]

Never given a review before, but whatever.

It looks pretty good though maybe somewhat sparsely decorated. Try putting some more tapestries and shelves on the walls.
And please check which way your door opens, my char was walking about and opened it from the side - because those benches were in front of it - and got stuck in the door

[Katze]

I've removed the chandelier, but what cuttlery can I use? A browse of the object window and a text search show that silverware and wood are the only options, both com. Even so, forgetting tags, surely silverware would be used over wood in any rich household.

Your new file still uses silverware plates. Use the misc_com ones and anything redware or de_ is fine, too. Check one of the Balmora manors if you're unsure if an item is fine or not. Replace the silverware cups with de_ goblets. With regards to cutlery, pretty much every de_r hlaalu int I've looked at (and I looked at one by Agram, and he's an interior-making titan) had no cutlery. I don't think it's entirely unreasonable that dunmer culture is fine with eating using the fingers, many middle eastern cultures are fine with the concept.

There's still an feeling space in between your dining table and the storage room. A bookcase display would perhaps go well there?

No pillow on the bed! Do you ever sleep on a bed without a pillow?

Your benches bleed about a half a foot into the ground. If you want them to be lower, scale them so they're smaller.

Remember, you only get three chances at fixing a showcase interior before you have to go make another one. Look at the manors found in Balmora (Tyravel, Nerano, Hlaalo, and the Hlaalu Council House) and look at how visually busy they are. Try to achieve that kind of density of stuff in your interiors. Interesting shelves and bookcase arrangements go a long way towards this.

EDIT: Thanks for pointing out the door problem, Evil Eye. I generally don't test ints in-game, because my computer is quite slow and cumbersome for games, so I missed that =/

[Kiteflyer61]

An easy way to know which way a door opens in the CS is to set your camera right in front of it. If the door knob is on the right, the door will open toward you, if it's on the left it will open away from you. Hope this helps both modders and reviewers.

[Katze]

Alternatively, using the hinge as the centrepoint, doors will always open clockwise and close anticlockwise

[BethesdaLove]

Just finished making the changes, tested and there no problems with doors. Switched around a plant, added a decoration for the desk, moved the key to a more believable place, added a bookcase and objects upon it and fixed the table.

I think I got all of it, here's the update.

[Katze]

-furn_pottedplant was floating
-bk_MysteriousAkavir bled into the bookcase
-bottom shelf of the bookcase is empty, which looks a tad weird.
-bm_bearhead_white is perhaps not suited for this int. there are loads of more dunmer int-suited plaques starting with TR_furn_plaque_ with Morrowind creatures like alits and durzogs on them.
-the desk is quite far from the wall, nothing wrong with that, but I personally think it looks weird.

Your int is a lot better, and with these fixes, I think you're almost ready for promotion. One thing I need to say though is, you need to have less open space, that central room feels pretty empty still, probably due to its size. I think this is your third and final review for this .esp (correct me if I'm wrong) so I advise making another Hlaalu house, preferably fitting the shape and (more or less) size of one of the existing exterior shells so you can show me that you can do that.

Take on the tips and pointers I and others have given you in your next attempt, and I will recommend you for promotion (and therefore allow you access to all those lovely Narsis claims we have up at the moment )

[BethesdaLove]

Okay, I have already been working on this for a couple of days and just finished the details. Yes, the shell in Balmora looks wrong, but I'm rubbish at exteriors. Also, I lost a lot of the interior, including the containers and the planter, and I couldn't get them as good as they were before. Sorry about that.

Another, smaller, rich Hlaalu house. Pretty simple really. Here is the new house:

[BethesdaLove]

Sorry for a double post, but does anybody know where I can look at Vegor's tutorial, the page has been down since I joined :s

[Lady Nerevar]

sadly, i dont think anyone has it anymore :/

[Katze]

I heard it through the grapevine that Thrig was writing a new interiors tutorial. Haplo was pestering him to finish it on the IRC last night.

[BethesdaLove]

It's a shame, reckon we need a TR standard interiors tutorial, as there's plenty of tutorials that advise cookie-cutting and the like.

Also,the file still needs reviewing if anyone has the time.

[Katze]

If it's Thrignar Fraxix making this tutorial, it will be to TR standards, believe me. Anyway, to my review, which I have decided will be in the form of prose as opposed to a list.

Did you use gridsnap on those architecture pieces? They seem to be fitting together very oddly. Perhaps your gridsnap setting is too low, set it to 16, 32 or 64 (powers of two) and they should fit together exactly, that's kinda the whole point of gridsnap.

Anyway, although your execution in terms of floaters and bleeders seems technically very good, you've made some strange design decisions (why did you scale a bed to 0.74?), and the exterior shell you created (unnecessarily, you don't need to do anything exterior-wise in int creation beyond aligning the northmarker) is plonked somewhat unceremoniously in the middle of a plaza in Balmora, for no rhyme or reason.

The house is architecturally uninteresting (who lives in a box?), and still has empty spots! Before you go off and make something else, please look through the final files of people who've gotten promoted for their work, for example this guy who I successfully recommended for promotion a month or so back http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=275268#275268 - that should give you a good idea on the kind of object density you need. I don't know how many files you've gone through now, but I took 3 submitted files before I myself was promoted, so don't give up hope, you'll get there eventually

[Thrignar Fraxix]

I am indeed working (slowly) on a tutorial. It is my hope that no one could fuck up an interior after reading and following the instructions therein