n8-60-Cro

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:24 pm

im not sure yet: but this is the mondo market. the smaller one will be much more applicable.

maybe 1:2 to 2:3 of the IC Palace district in the center.. leaning more towards 1:2

:EDITED:

Update: tris is still going down even with more cloth pieces made: my budget is 5000 atm. 8000 is much more realistic but I'll cross that bridge later.
[url=http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/?action=view&current=4.jpg][img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/th_4.jpg[/img][/url]

:EDITED:

Update: I did a little photoshop work with LCCloth01 and made some alpha channels: here's the current wips
-about 4200 tris right now

[url=http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/?action=view&current=3.jpg][img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/th_3.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/?action=view&current=4-1.jpg][img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/th_4-1.jpg[/img][/url]

Through the process of making this I realized that it's going to be too much work to make a modular interior set: so I'm making it an arch_static object with as little detail as possible. It's still going to be well under 8000 tris: I think about 6500-7000.

my reasoning: please feel free LN to accuse me of heresy

-maybe a closed fire-lit space would look like a black market: cut off and not having an open-air market feel. (my impression was that the market should be open-air)

-the size and shape of the structure will allow for the poly count to be high from clutter and small static objects within. Its poly count is MUCH lower than a similar piece of architecture in OB

-It will save time since I only have to mesh a roof and supports: leaving the ground and vertex shading to the ext/modder. I will have this ext piece done in days vs. months

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:15 am

yep, its fine with me

i actually liked the cloth layout on your first wip, the closed off outer circle looks sort of odd with the textures alternating directions. could be just the mapping though.

anyways, i gave a closer review to the stands you uploaded, got a few minor issue i need you to fix. foodstand02 seems to be lacking collision for the back board, and foodstand03's collision for the front legs is dislocated by several units. there is a little texture stretching in the left-most corner of 01. i have attached my files for those below, i fixed texture paths and stuff, so i'd like you to work from these if possible

[edit] oh yea, the new LC texture looks fabulous!

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:38 am

LN those are just Nif files: as soon as I import them back into max those file paths will erase. If you want you can upload me a data>meshes/textures directory of exactly how you want the market set up and I can use that.

haven't worked on the grand tent for a bit: been busy busting out that bridge but here is a screen of the re-skinned censer
[url=http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/?action=view&current=2-4.jpg][img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/th_2-4.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/?action=view&current=uc_market_censer_1_m02.jpg][img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/th_uc_market_censer_1_m02.jpg[/img][/url]

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:27 pm

NexUmMonastica wrote:LN those are just Nif files: as soon as I import them back into max those file paths will erase. If you want you can upload me a data>meshes/textures directory of exactly how you want the market set up and I can use that.

didnt know that, in which case feel free to use what ever (I can adjust sources easy enough). as you might have noticed on IRC i was having trouble with these crashing when i tried to put them in the gameworld. i removed collision and that fixed the problem, so check it out, maybe you'll notice an error that i did not. the last version i tested (the one where i said it was black in game) worked perfectly as far as collision is concerned.

the censer looks great

can you make it havoked so that the player can make it move by shooting at it and stuff?

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:24 pm

zomg need wikis I have nooo idea how to do that. but I will try!

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:47 pm

tbh i dont know how to do that either

ive always just stole the havok from other oblivion objects. i'll try to find you some, but in the meantime that request can be ignored.

also, while were on collision, Max has this really cool thing called MOPPs collision, which is superior to regular collision and give better framerates. i think [url=http://www.silgrad.com/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=11104]this tut[/url] should explain how to make it - it might also solve the issue that i was having with the stands

anyways, thanks for bearing with me and doing such great work

hope im not overloading you here...

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:55 am

nah I'll slow down if I need to recharge the batteries: its when I don't get feedback and then once I finish a week long project everybody races in and poops on it! hhahaha but that shit doesn't happen here anymore

Get me the havok for the hanging censer in the entry hall to the gladiator arena, the one you always try to hit with an arrow or fireball on your way out of a battle. It doesn't have enough mass so I think i'll be editing it : it bounces like a fucking ping pong ball as it is. But that is what I had in mind when i made it: I also intend to make one out of clay: more like in the clutter concept posted at the top of 8-60.

I just finished recording loads of drum tracks for two bands and I have a lot of work ahead of me this week: we have a record company in germany putting out one album and we sort of have a deadline. Don't expect tooo much from me for a week or too, but who knows.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:24 pm

not sure if this is the one you were referring too, but it works the same way

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:59 pm

I fixed some of the collision objects in foodstall01: It seems I had duplicate bhk's selected. I hope this solved the collision problem.

I also fixed the texture stretching on the corner of the top backboard.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:48 pm

good news is that it doesnt crash the game anymore, bad news is that it doesnt have any collision

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:00 pm

well I think the crashes were probably the duplicate references in the bhk modifier: and maybe some of the bhk meshes accidently got converted back down to "poly mode" I'll go back through and give it the evil eye some time today or tomorrow.

LN: Did the other two stands have good collision? Or are they experiencing the same issue?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:02 pm

your latest zip included only 01. in the previous version they all crashed. thanks for looking at this so speedily

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:59 pm

ahhh ok that clears up that question. If I can't find anything wrong with the collision in the .max scenes then I'll make a new collision that is just a bounding box. If that imports and works then I'll redo all the collision bhk meshes one by one and send you that. I should be able to test it myself (I got oblivion working after an hour cleaning out my system registry).

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:27 pm

I'd take a screenie but screenshots won't enable for me in Oblivion (it's always something).

It's tested: there's no shading, which just looks odd but I don't know how to fix it. The textures look good and the collision is without error thus far. No crashes and I imported it twice just to make sure.

I'll wait for feedback before I do my mini-victory jiggle.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:43 pm

Here's my submission: Foodstalls 01, 02, and 03

fixed texture stretchings, and checked collision.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:31 pm

took a look at these, thanks for reminding me.

they look and work great

you only need one texture property, the _n assigns itself automatically. i also fixed the path (it was absolute instead of relative) and added tangent space data. and then, when i did all that, they crashed the CS :/ i'll check it out since its my fault.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:25 pm

what is the purpose of the Tangent Space Data?

The only problem I experienced was arrows didn't stick into the wood: they just bounced off.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:28 pm

the tangent space data handles proper normal mapping, it doesnt work (as well?) without it. i removed that and it still didnt work though

i'll keep looking at it, im sure to find it eventually.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:39 pm

here's a screen of what I am importing: and the models are working great: no crashes.

[url=http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/?action=view&current=t3461361526567127.jpg][img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/th_t3461361526567127.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/?action=view&current=t34613613563245.jpg][img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/th_t34613613563245.jpg[/img][/url]

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:15 am

I quick-sketched an alternate idea for the market stalls: and I feel they would end up more universal than that giant tent I started. (the more I look at it the more I hate it) I am really itching to scrap the mini-stalls that I made and build new ones from scratch with better normals and more realism. I'd like to make the cloth-covered stalls aprox 20w'x15d' and put the foodstands inside. That idea fits closer to the original concept pictures. Since it is an LC market it makes sense to be cramped. I'll post a quick wip soon when I get the time. A mesh would better describe my idea than my chicken-scratch concepts.
[url=http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/?action=view&current=scan001001.jpg][img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/th_scan001001.jpg[/img][/url]

:EDIT:
oh yeah, I found a good tile-able basket texture and slapped it on a quick model with an alpha mask
[url=http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/?action=view&current=1-2.jpg][img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/th_1-2.jpg[/img][/url]

:EDIT:
I also want to make it clear that I am still going by the original concept: I'm just making it bigger.
[url=http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/?action=view&current=5-1.jpg][img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/th_5-1.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/?action=view&current=6-2.jpg][img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/TR/th_6-2.jpg[/img][/url]

I didn't spend much time on this current wip but most importantly the poly count is lower and the bamboo is much more realistic: It tapers out and bevels inward as you look down the bamboo. The previous bamboo was just a cylinder and it really looked tacky up close.

:3rd EDIT:
I looked over it this morning and it is looking oriental to me: I think I'll get rid of that bow cross in the middle.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:41 pm

lovin' it. can we keep the old tent too since you already modeled it? a bit of extra variety never hurt anyone

[edit] ok, found the problem. for some reason changing the texture path forces it to crash. i'll try to fix it somehow because it needs to be changed. texture paths need to be relative to the oblivion folder (beginning with \textures\) not absolute (e:\\...)

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:07 pm

I see what you are talking about now. I'm really not sure how to make the texture path begin from data/textures/tr.. blah blah without first specifying the drive. If you can figure it out then bravo!

We can't use the old stall if we use this one because the model is completely different: but i can make a stall just like the old one in 2 or 3 minutes. I don't see much of a reason though. It would be better just to make tables that the modders can plug into the stalls in different ways rather than one stock stall.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:17 pm

you have to set your base directory in preferences, this will automatically delete all that (or you can delete it by hand every time...)

Render>Settings
under Texture Folders/Custom click [Add Folder]
Click [Folder], or type in the path in the texbox next to it. go only up to Data (mine reads, for example, C:/Program FIles/Bethesda Softwors/Oblivion/Data).
Click [Auto Detect Game Paths]
close box. repeat as needed, i have several folders set up for morrowind and an external drive.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:19 am

im giving this another try: the stall looks awesome atm and I think THAT is why it's crashing atm.

maybe if I make it's LOD a turd the CS won't notice it sneaking by?

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:07 am

muwah muwahaha muWAHAHAHHA

[url=http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/?action=view&current=87684562113.jpg][img]http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/solobeck/th_87684562113.jpg[/img][/url]

:EDIT:
The problems were with the newer collisions and textures. I imported old collisions that worked and moved them around to fit the mesh, but the textures crash the CS.

LN: if you can slap the textures on this mesh the way you did with the dock meshes I could get the other market architecture done pretty fast. Something seems to be different now when I apply a texture prop in nifTools. no matter what I do: any texture with any file-path crashes the CS. My computer in general is setting sail for fail. I don't mean to impose extra work on you since I know you are busy atm but as it is I think I have this mesh as far completed as I can get it

I just spent 2 hours tweaking the file and export properties, recreating nifProps and bhk meshes, editing texture info, grouping, ungrouping )*&@#%$*)&#^$*&@#!$&!@#^_*(&!@^#$_*(^

I almost lost it there... but I made progress!

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:18 pm

alright, i seem to have been able to fix the foodstands. still not totally sure what was causing it, but my bet is on mat props atm. when i imported into maya it was all weird and messed up - parts were transparent, others overlaped strangely... the mesh was fine but the texture was rendering all wrong. i changed the material to Lambert (from Phong) and resigned textures from there. no crashes so far

i then placed the updated model into the collision of the old and it works perfectly

i'll get to fixing the others, maybe this will give you an idea of how to deal with the current wip meshes

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:26 pm

just posting to let you know that i fixed all these. i noticed that they had their alpha all the way on transparent, which was causing the weird look in maya and may have been causing the crashes. so yea, check the alpha on your mat props.

anyways, these will be in the next OoT

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:21 pm

That's awesome to hear LN:

I don't ever use Phong shading in max: it's for rendering soft organics like food and skin. Every texture map I build is always standard Blinn. That must be an Importing Preference in Maya (makes sense since Maya is the top Organics modeling software)

The transparency is tripping me out, I can't think of where it came from: besides the collision which I might have exported Transparent.

The alpha channels in all my maps are always blank white, but locked with the diffuse channel. (Which should make it so that there is no alpha channel showing) But alpha channels add so much more detail: It could always be beneficial but maybe the extra space in OoT is more important atm.

I know that there is some path somewhere in the modeling or map heiarchy that I am missing but I hope I find it soon. I hate to bog you down further with extra work but right now I'm super excited to have some real progress to stand on!

Here's the maps I used:
TrLcMarketBamboo01.dds
TRRope.dds
TRHFLCrug02.dds (left cloth cover)
TRHFLCtapestry16.dds (center cloth cover)
TRHFLCtapestry17.dds (right cloth cover

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:08 pm

fantastic! dont worry about adding too much work for me - if you cant figure it out i'd rather spend a minute on my end than have you spend an hour on yours.

right now it looks like the top sticks arent havoked... is this on purpose?

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:44 am

As a matter of fact at the time I didn't really see it as necessary, if the character is on top of the mesh they will just fall off of the cloth havok and won't be able to tell the difference. I didn't see modders stacking clutter on top of the mesh so that was one more reason not to add the extra meshes. I guess you could just stretch the cloth havok verticies out a few inches to contain part of the sticks and that would be good enough.

I will finish a corner stall and I think a center stall could just be two of the foodstall01's back to back. That would cut down on resources.

after that I'll dink around with gourds

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:31 pm

hey nex, hows progress? i havent seen you around in a while, are you ok?

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:26 am

sorry about the absence! I'll be back as soon as I have time. I understand if you need to revoke my claim but I haven't given up on it yet. I wont waste posts on my other claims

I hope to be back soon.

Cheers!

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:13 pm

I've got the files loaded back into max and I'm giving them all a look-over. The main Market Stall looks like it only needs various texture modules of the cloth roof, and some final UVW work. everything involving the meshes will be downhill from there. I'll submit some screenies as soon as I am able.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:48 pm

awesome, cant wait

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:52 am

There are a lot of problem's with the collision... more than I remember. I have many un-answerable questions and am getting stuck left and right. I think the main problems are coming from the way I make the collision meshes: which is entirely individual and would probably be pooh-poohed by any professional.

I have no problem exporting wood boards into the CS... If there is ever a shortage of planks let me know: I have hundreds.

There are two final walls I can't get past:

1: object mass and material (i.e. arrows sinking into wood objects with a thud or bouncing off of metal with a clang) Right now arrows (my main havok testing tool) bounce off the objects about 2 inches away from the actual collision mesh and make weird noises

2: shading : there are tooo many options in nifTools for shading and I don't know what does what ... arrrrrgh I say

arrrrghhh

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:44 pm

sometimes its best to mess with it in nifskope rather than a modeling program since it only has the features OB supports. also try looking at other OB models, maybe that will help.

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:39 am

I have the market stall in the CS right now and there are no crashes. I don't have the TR_DATA.esm loaded because it causes too many crashes (not sure why) so I'm not 100% sure the textures are there: but they show up nice and clean in NifSkope. The collision problems all came from the bounding strips around the cloth roof so I removed them. As far as I can tell atm we'll have to do without realistic collision on the cloth (at least until I get the bug sorted out).

Oblivion, however is not loading, so I can't do a final test to check the collision but it reads fine in NifSkope as well. Someone without so many bugs on their comp can do the testing: but I'm hopeful that this module is almost completed.

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:06 am

NexUmMonastica wrote:I don't have the TR_DATA.esm loaded

I would hope not! That file is for Morrowind!

NexUmMonastica · Post by **NexUmMonastica** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:59 am

ok lol wrong data.esm I didn't db check the file name when I loaded it... (haven't fired up the cs in a couple months

)

I don't have much organization when it comes to the CS files

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:00 pm

i checked it in nifskope real quick, it appears that the side bars and the cloth doesnt have collision. i'll do a better check later today.