immortal_pigs wrote:I did not mean a headquarters, I meant more of a barracks. Just like the Imperial Legion has a barracks at Gnisis, the Ordinators of War could have a barracks at Necrom, since Necrom is a holy city of the Temple.
I think the Ordinators of War should have more than just one base in Almalexia, since it'd be strange to have Ordinators travel for miles just to extreminate a Daedric Base in for example the Boethian Mountains. It would be kind of like making Old Ebonheart the only base for the Legionnairs in all of Mainland Morrowind.
One extra argument for some kind of an Ordinator's base would be the fact that the closest Ordinator Base next to Necrom would be Almalexia.
It is consistently said in diverse threads that Cults like the Cult of Molag Bal or Boethiah wouldn't stand a chance against the Temple.
But look at Ranyon-ruhn... the Temple 'garrison' there is not even remotely a threat.
So that would leave Necrom. But apparantly Necrom can't have even an Ordinators Barracks. Fine. But then how is the Temple supposed be a threat to anyone when they have no actual troops??
Thrignar Fraxix wrote:we aren't talking about the architecture, we are talking about the catacombs. The architecture is done and placed. How do people keep missing this
Sorry about that, I was skimming over some parts, I must have neglected that
Immortal_Pigs wrote:Fine. But then how is the Temple supposed be a threat to anyone when they have no actual troops??
I think its more of a threat because of its power and influence over certain groups of people. Most of the Great Houses worship temple in some sort of way, which already makes it indirectly a threat.
The thread is more of a morale/spiritual thing rather than a physical thing.
Dexter (on IAS): "Since when do you need to be able to do backflips to dig holes?" Fri 29 Jul, 2005 3:57:03
Sload (on Narsis): "Jesus Christ, I wonder why there was lag when you had an 80,000 face gazebo." Thu 09 Apr, 2009 11:46:33
There is an Ordinator presence in Necrom, it's just not tiered like in Almalexia. They're just the guards, stationed among the 10-15 guard towers. Plus, the main Temple hasn't been done and it's huge. So perhaps there are a few Ordinator areas in there. But again, I wouldn't make those huge. If anything, they would just be offices, no barracks.
The Ordinators don't need a base of operations nearby to be a threat to someone, they will travel long and far to accomplish their goals. We can see Elite Ordinators attacking the Daedric ruins Ald Daedroth, and that is probably the furthest location possible from any of their bases on Vvardenfell, and probably on the mainland too.
I have no idea what the plan for the Necrom Ordinators are, but if it was up to me they wouldn't be a new type of big-bad Ordinators, they're just Watch Ordinators with the distinct honor of guarding Necrom, and probably filled with older Dunmer. Also unlike other Ordinators, they likely do not get orders from any of the other Orders, only the Order of the Watch, and probably from a single office in Necrom. Necrom shouldn't have offices for the other Orders, there is no need.
The problem with making more types of "high" Ordinators, is it diminishes the status of your typical Ordinator, which should still be considered by the players and us to be bad-asses, so lets avoid doing that. This also applies to people putting War Ordinators(I just know they exist in the TR_Data), it should be done sparingly, as War Ordinator suggest they are only under one Order, while regular and Elite Ordinators suggest they are there on a task for an Order, but they can still get task from the others as well.
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yeah you're right about the "high" ordinators situation.
I think the main problem with making another type is giving it a emphasising title like "War Ordinator". thats the diminishing part.
I mean for all we know, they could just be normal "Ordinators", just slightly different stats (maybe spells as well, like a summon bonewalker or something?) and maybe retextured and/or improved armour.
Theres no real reason why they need to be so completly different from any other ordinator, like I said above, some changes would be a good idea, but nothing overly major.
Dexter (on IAS): "Since when do you need to be able to do backflips to dig holes?" Fri 29 Jul, 2005 3:57:03
Sload (on Narsis): "Jesus Christ, I wonder why there was lag when you had an 80,000 face gazebo." Thu 09 Apr, 2009 11:46:33
"War Ordinator" refers to an Ordinator who is part of the Order of War, a sect of the Ordinators which does in fact exist.
The Order of War specifically is involved with fighting the enemies of the Temple, which while primarily focuses on those who are literally out to destroy the Temple (Dagoth Ur), can also be interpreted to include those who go against Temple methods and beliefs (The Ordinators hate pretty much anyone who doesn't worship the Tribunal, but they tolerate a few for the sake of keeping the peace, such as outlanders).
Turelio is basically right, only Almalexia has offices for all of the Orders of Ordinators, and any city which is guarded by Ordinators (to my knowledge, only Vivec, Mournhold/Almalexia and Necrom) need only have an office for the Order of the Watch.
Regarding Almalexia, I imagine the guard would be shared by Ordinators and ordinary House Indoril guards, in the same way that Mournhold is guarded by both High Ordinators and Royal Guards.
Yes, I wasn't saying we shouldn't have War Ordinators, as they exist, what I was saying is that a War Ordinator implies that they only concern themselves with the matters of the Order of War. Example you wont see them guarding temples and such, they will be out in the field doing their work. Inquisitors are Ordinators specifically belonging to the Order of Inquisition. There isn't any evidence for or against, but when I was working on the Ordinator's as a joinable faction, most Ordinators simply don't belong to any one Order, they receive tasks from the Orders. The Orders themselves are staffed by only a few who are mostly handling administrative duties, and some Ordinators who specialize it the tasks those Orders need done.
So War Ordinators are given explicit duties to seek out and defeat the enemies of the Temple, Inquisitors root out heresy and deal with the Nerevarines(and probably guard the closest secrets of the Tribunal). By that we can surmise that Watch Ordinators would be those tasked with very important guard duties or as escorts for when the Temple is out and about, and that "Scholar" Ordinators(or whatever you might call those of Ordination and Doctrine) write the rules and documents and do the research for them. (Edit: High Ordinators likely belong to the Order of the Watch, they are all guards, so this could apply to Necrom perhaps.)
We also have evidence for Elite Ordinators, which are probably just slightly better trained Ordinators that get more difficult tasks from the Orders. All the Ordinators at Ald Daedroth are Elite Ordinators, and judging from their activity, getting tasks from the Order of War.
BUT, the important thing to remember is they are all Ordinators, they most likely refer to themselves simply as Ordinators, and to most people it makes little difference.
BTW: this is just my opinion, but I think the Ordinator fortress in Almalexia is set up completely wrong. In Necrom, the Office of the Watch should be easily accessible and make sense; think of it as the police department, this is where people go to report crimes and where Temple officials will come to get help from the Ordinators.
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Do we not already have a distinct armour for them already?
well - yeah we do because i made it - So they aren't going to be "standard" ordinators. Honestly though - When I do get around to re-installing TES3 and modding again I'll be re-doing the Necrom ordinators "armor" for myself. The set I did ages ago just doesn't feel dunmeri enough.
I'm thinking skull-like masks/helms and full body wraps (almost mummy like) with old robes, brownish and stained material - alot more ethereal - hooded maybe? I think a visit to Necrom should feel like a visit to the land of the dead - like you crossed over when you walked through the gate, but then Necrom looks totally different in my imagination to how we've done it here....ok - my mind's wandering.
Túrelio - I'm really liking your artwork, inspirational.
Since as of yesterday I can't post in the exterior forum, I decided to post my remarks here.
@Tyrion, please center the temple dome-roofs. Currently they are off.
Concerning the catacombs:
1. There needs to be an above-ground mausoleum for a 2nd Era Cyrodiilic official. It's in Incident at Necrom. Though I have said that the book is mostly bull, I don't think that part is. Necrom isn't only for dead Dunmer.
2. The saints should not be in the lowest level of the catacombs. The catacombs are older than 11/12 saints. If anything only Veloth should be in the lowest level. Some of the saints are only like 150 years old. That's pretty recent.
3. Why is there a catacomb entrance in the Old City?
4. There should be several catacomb entrances. Families may want to come and visit their dead.
Necrom doesn't need a sewer because of its position. Water naturally runs off.
Last edited by Hemitheon on Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
I didn't see that they were off. I'll check again, but I don't know if that warrants a new file being uploaded. Whoever posts the next version will have to tie a string around their finger then.
There shouldn't be a catacomb entrance in the Old City, unless I'm missing something...
"Imagination and memory are but one thing which for diverse considerations have diverse names."
"How dare you question the colonnade!" - one of the Glorious Leaders
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"The layout is awesome, the scale is awesome, the whole city is just awesome!" - Tyrion on Blacklight, circa 2007
I'm not really sure about the Ordinator's in Necrom: in-game texts don't seem to mention them.* However, doesn't the Tribunal turn all the saints in super- uber Bonewalkers? in the back of some catacombs have like Saint Olms, Saint Delvyn, Saint Nevar, Saint Llothis, etc.
just an idea
Edit:* i'm not saying i don't thing TR should have them, i'm saying I can't offer an opinion on them, because i have no idea what they are, besides for Ordinators.
Last edited by LoreBuffCan'tMod on Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just because something doesn't exist in in-game texts, doesn't mean it's not there. This is especially relevant for places not portrayed physically in the game. Our mod would be incredibly empty if we only had stuff mentioned in in-game books.
Lore is about more than just being able to recite what a load of pretend books and a game that's actually an approximation of the real place say.
"If a hermaphroditic, bug-armored, bipolar god-king existing in multiple universes who has his very own bible with *actual* magic strewn throughout it is your idea of a cliche, then I really would like to live in your world." -MK
"You say a lot of things. And how does that work? You're a bicycle"
Before I ask my question, I want to say that this question is informative and not to bite someone.
In some other thread (http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=19996&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=280) Sload told us that Saint Seryn was a walking guar.
My question is: Was Saint Seryn turned into a bonewalker or another undead? I thought an undead guar would be cool.
Sounds silly to me. Anyway, I believe there was talk of stuff to do with Saint Seryn (saint) in Saint Seryn (town). Save it for there, if you have to. (Or whatever)
a man builds a city
withBanks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside
"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Seryn is no. 57. Doesn't look like a guar to me. Or maybe it's some kind of guar-dunmer mutant hybrid.
After a bit of internet digging, I have a feeling that this is another misunderstanding coming from a single statement by Kirkbride or someone else. An article at the imperial library states that she was 'tough as a guar', not 'actually a guar'. We even had a 'gospel of St. Seryn' book written here that depicts Seryn as a simple dunmer, but I don't know what happened to it.
edit: sorry BC, but I just had to report these findings.
Edit2: actually, after a closer look at the thread Blackbird linked to, I have an even stronger feeling that the misunderstanding was created right here on these forums, that the very passage I mentioned above was misread, and that Sload was joking.
Last edited by Myzel on Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The problem with that image is that most see it and thing that her face is facing right when in reality her face is facing left. What seems like a guar mouth with teeth is in fact the chain which holds the veil around her nose and mouth. And the simplest proof is the triangle over her head. The triangle is always pointing in the direction the saint is looking. Look at the others. Therefore, St. Seryn is just a deformed Dunmer.
But if TR wants St. Seryn to be guar, I'm not gonna dispute it.
And to clarify for Hemitheon, it has nothing to do with the image. It has to do with Arthmodeous reading 'tough' as 'though' and Sload finding this simultaneously amusing and poetically true.
a man builds a city
withBanks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside
"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Isn't the Neverarine Nerevar reborn? Also why would the Tribunal turn Nerevar into a Bonelord. He knows the secret of how they became gods after all. Can Bonelords talk?
Despite all this, I still think its an awesome idea
-Head of NPCs: [url=http://www.shotn.com/forums/]Skyrim: Home of the Nords[/url]
excuse my probably extrememly noobish question, but isn't the main character (you) in morrowind the nerevar? i got more into oblivion than morrowind, so correct me if i'm wrong. if you are the reincarnated nerevar, then how do you meet it as a bonewalker? sorry for the question in advace.
You'll see, I'll show you, that these, uh, civilized people? They'll eat each other. You see, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve.
you should trust that we know what we are talking about. They do this to their saints out of respect. It is a great honor to be turned into a bonewalker.
Yeti wrote:
Bonewalkers are those nasty zombie things right? Doesn't seem to be a very pious thing to do to the remains of such an important saint
The Tribunal loved Nerevar dearly. Necromancy, or at least the kind sanctioned by the Temple, is not at all sacrilege and is usually considered a great honour.
I imagine (and hope) that we won't have a troupe of tame 'saintly bonewalkers'.
I would also imagine (and hope) that nerevar would look completely unique. The entire reason that we know about his 'fate' is because of what he looks like on his triolith. He is portrayed there in Bonewalker form.
I'd want interaction and activity on his part to be absolutely minimal. Tragic, not epic; downplayed, and with some meaningful and sombre non-dialogue if the player speaks to him.
a man builds a city
withBanks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside
"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
