alex 25 showcase - Quest Review needed

[alex25]

Hello, people.
I am a fan of Morrowind and i realy want to get involved in the TR project ( maps 1 and 2 are simply great)so i would reaaaaly like to join and contribute to the project. I would like to work on exterors, interiors and quests (if and when they become available)
This showcase contains a island south of Seyda Neen with a Televanni tower some houses (with interiors) and some NPC's. The interior are not fully finished but I hope to be
back wth them in a couple of days.

[blackbird]

Welcome to the forums!

Here is my review:

-The sea floor doesn't have any objects! Please add rocks, flora, barnacles, kelps, lights
-there is no vertex shading!
-there is no much logic with your doormarkers. I would add them near the door and facing to the opposite door.
-your island is too steep! You could always the cliffs from TR_Data.
-the area around the ex_t_stair_01 is sometimes jagged
your bridge pieces do not fit with each other.
-almost all your bc rocks are floating or half floating.
-terrain_rock_ac_04 is floating at -3,-12
-terrain_rock_ac_09 is also floating at -3,-12
-there is a texture seam at -4,-12 (this happens when 3 or more different textures meet each other)
-I don't like flora_emp_parasol_01 which are bleeding with each other
-maybe the ruler of this telvanni is a very mighty wizard, but the house pads aren't connected with the ground or something else except with some stairs. They don't look realistic.
-you're only using 3 textures, if I'm right.
-I'm not sure about a Bitter Coast and Azura's Coast mix
-this island seems underdetailed to me.

-This island wouldn't be lore correct either (due the location), but that's less important.

-Some quick notes about your interiors (I've looked at the tower):
-you need to an interior which is built with gridsnap
-do not mix com furniture with de furniture and rich (r) furniture with poor furniture. Remove com_furniture as it doesn't fit within a telvanni interior.

Your file is dirty! Clean it with tesame or MEE and never press save button at the object menu when placing an object.

General remarks: I wonder if you have ever playtested this file, but I guess it's your first time with the CS.
However I've seen some good things like the mushrooms on the bridges.
I suggest your read some (more) tutorials and take a closer look on bethesda and TR's interiors and exteriors.
If you want to be involved at TR, you should know that you always have to improve yourself and never ever give up! Keep trying, but remember if a showcase fails for the 3th time, you need to start over with an entirely new one!

[Thrignar Fraxix]

Blackbird forgot to say, "Welcome to the project"

[blackbird]

Is welcome to the forums not enough?

Please do not send some files which aren't complete (this applies only for showcases; you may do this for big claims, it's even recommended).

[Thrignar Fraxix]

I don't believe that was there originally, and I see an edit.

regardless, you don't need to be so harsh in your tone in the showcase.

[blackbird]

Okay, I'll edit it a bit.

[alex25]

Yes, thanks for the input and suggestions. I'll work on them . There will also be a quest that explains why that tower exists where it is. I'll post it later today or tomorow, when I manage to finish the quest.

[Praedator]

Is anyone reviewing the interiors of your file?

[blackbird]

Not really as he said that the interiors were not ready.
I would also stick to BC or AC, but don't mix them.

[Praedator]

Alex, could you finish one of your interiors? The best is a two floor house in any style you like.
However be aware that we do not accept style mixing. If you post that interior seperately as an .esp file, I will review you for interior modding seperately. Someone else can do the exterior review (blackbird), and again someone else can review your quests.

[alex25]

Ok. I'll post the upgaded and cleaned showcase below. Changes done:
-added objects on the sea floor,
-added a ship and NPC so you can now travel to Sadrih Mora(it's far so it's expensive but it makes more sense as lore and for the quest)
-added and removed(mainly removed) some rocks and flora and made the others fit.
-added some stairs and platforms so all bridge pieces fit witk each other
-made exterior doormarkers in the proper directions
-added a NPC apothecary service outside and a enchanter (in the enchanter interior cell)
-improved the Clothier interior ( it's almost finished)
-connected the house pods to the ground and made some other small changes

The outside section is mainly finished so tomorrow ill come back with the interior. As for the quest I have some problems with the script but I hope to be ready soon.

[blackbird]

Here is my second exterior review:
-I see an improvement!
-I still don't see some vrtex coloring/shading!
-There are still some rocks halfloating; I can see their hollow bottom! You ned to adjust it, like rotating on the x and y axis.
-urn_02_ingred is bleeding with a poor table (near the apothecary)
-urn_01_ingred is bleeding with another urn
-almost everything around the apothecary is floating
-furn_crate_open_01 is bleeding with the table
-apparatus_j_calcinator_01 is bleeding with an urn
-misc_de_glass_yellow_01 stands on a poor table. You need to adjust it a bit (with the x and y rotation)
-There are some jagged places. The area around the stairs and the dock could be softened.
-I see only 2 or 3 textures. There is no variation in textures.
-Almost every kollop and barancles is floating. i wonder if you didn't clean too much.
-You should name every edited cell
-Flora_kelp_04 is floating at -5,-12
-Your showcase should be more detailed! A good number is around 150 statics for each cell (unless you're working with much large rocks and cliffs). More rocks would be a good start, together with more statics, lights, flora, containers and some banners (activators)
-All your flora_emp_parasol_01 have the same size and rotation (6.9) Rotate and scale them randomly
-Avoid steep edges or use either cliffs or rocks. In your case I would take some rocks.

[alex25]

Blackbird thank's for the review it was realy helpfull. Well I made most changes mentioned there and a few more:
-Added 2 new textures so it now looks better
-Added vertex shading (finaly managed to get it right)
-Solved the floating rocks added some new ones
-Solved the jagged places (the way to the docks is ment to be steep but with the stairs a breton with 15 athletics may manage it (tested))
-The open market should be ok now
-The rocks and flora are better placed now (I hope)
-Made a lot of misc changes (added more items, removed some etc)

For the interior showcase levitate to the top of the tower and into Tel Arxun Tower Upper(this interior is 100% finnished. The other interiors are not finished but simply there to link to the door markers).

[Praedator]

Well below I have my review, it might look very demoralizing but believe me it is not and I see some potention in your creativity, you just lack a few simple skills which can be learnt easily.

This is a full review:

Clean: Very dirty
Gridsnap Used: No
Northmarker Set: Yes, but wrong direction
Fits Exterior: No
IllegalToSleepHere: No
Style Mixing: Yes

Review:

Entrance:
- Furn_de_rug_big_08 bleeds into stairs
- One furn_de_r_chair_03 floats above floor and bleeds into rug.
- One furn_de_r_chair_03 floats above floor.
- One furn_de_r_chair_03 bleeds into rug.
- Furn_De_r_Table_09 floats above rug.
- misc_de_goblet_02 slightly bleeds into table.
- misc_dwrv_pitcher00 bleeds slightly into table. You should remove this item as dwarven clutter is only allowed in Dwemer dungeons, and sometimes in other interiors if there is asked for.
- One misc_de_goblet_02 balances on a small spot of the cup, rotate the foot of the cup to match the lower surface.
- furn_planter_02 floats above floor.
- One furn_de_tapestry_12 bleeds into floor.
- furn_com_r_chair_01 floats above floor and bleeds into rug. This item should be removed as it is considered style mixing. Do not use any _com_ furniture in a Telvanni interior (de_r).
- furn_planter_02 floats above floor.
- furn_com_tapestry_05 bleeds into floor.
- light_de_lantern_07 floats high in te air, with no connection to the ceiling.
- bk_darkestdarkness severely bleeds into bk_guylainesarchitecture.
- bk_easternprovincesimpartial bleeds severely into bk_firmament.
- All the books are aligned rather messy, and some stick far out off the bookshelf, some books need support with a TR_bookend in order to stand straight up.
- Furn_De_R_Bookshelf_02 bleeds into floor and rug.
- flora_bc_vine_01 bleeds into towerroot.

Small room with drawers;
- 001_de_r_drawers_01 floats severely above floor.
- de_r_drawers_01 partially floats above floor, needs to be aligned and rotated to match the surface.
- You have used two chest_small_01_goldr500, unlocked and wide in the open. This is a bit too much. Remove one and lock the other.
- bm_chest_eddard_03 is floating above the floor. This chest should be removed as it is intended to be used at Solstheim (BM=Bloodmoon).

Bedroom;
- The crystals look very nice, however some of them collide/bleed with the walls and roots. Move them so that they do not touch the walls and roots.
- bk_EggOfTime is bleeding in the bookshelf. This book is a unique item and should not be used in any other interior.
- bk_MysteriousAkavir bleeds into another book at top and slightly into the bookshelf at the bottom. Naturally it would also slide off so use better positioning.
- misc_skull00 floats severely. Do not use any skulls unless you have a wizard/necromancer character.
- All misc_skull10 rest on the bookshelf unnaturally, as it is now they would tumble over.
- misc_dwrv_artifact50 is floating above bookshelf and should be removed.
- misc_uniq_egg_of_gold is floating and should be removed as it is a quest item, and unique (7).
- Both Misc_SoulGem_Grand float above the bookshelf. Be sparesome with these and never include a lot in one space.
- misc_de_drum_02 is bleeding into the bookshelf.
- misc_de_lute_01 is bled into the bookshelf. Adjust the lute so that it rests on the side of the pointy bottom, do that by rotating over all axis.
- Misc_SoulGem_Greater is floating above bookshelf.
- Bottom misc_skull00, this is how skulls should be placed.
- The active_de_r_bed_06 and the bookshelf are too close together, open up the space between them so that a character can fit in between.
- bk_DoorsOfTheSpirit bleeds slightly in the bed, needs to be rotated a little.
- chest_small_01_gold_50 is slightly floating above drawer.
- chest_small_02_silverwa is slightly floating above drawer.
- 001_de_r_drawers_01 is floating above floor.


Comments;

A first glampse your interior looks somewhat empty, a little more clutter would be nice. Its good that you have used crystals and mushrooms to dress up the interior. But you still need some technical things to learn; Your file is very dirty, you should clean it with Tesame (a cleaning programme), before uploading. With the programme you should remove all items which you did not change, so all existing clutter and items can be deleted as they are in the main .esm anyway. You have not used gridsnap to make the interior, even though it looks allright we still want you to use gridsnap for making the interior shell. The Northmarker should align to the north, do that by looking at your exterior first. Your interior does not really match the exterior well. When you make a house interior you should check the IllegalToSleepHere box in the Interior Cell section where you also do the light settings. Your light settings are set on default, change that to settings that fit your interior. The easiest way is to check a similar vanilla MW interior, in this case maybe the Tel Aruhn Tower, note its settings and apply them for your own cell. Do not use furniture of different styles stick with the one that fits best and then only that.
You need to use the ‘f’command (simply pressing f on your keyboard) when you place items, this will bring the object down to the nearest structure straight below them. In this way you will not have so many floaters so use it for every object.
You should really start all over again and make a simple 3x2 two floor interior, maybe Hlaalu (de_p/de_r) or Imperial (com). To show your abilities with gridsnap and the other technical things I mentioned above. Remind that the remarks at the top of this review should all be yes except the style mixing.

[alex25]

Thanks for the rewiew and tips (I didn't know a number of things). Because its my 3rd work I am going to start a new one. (I supposed that is a rule, but I was going to start another it anyway because Telvanni interiors are quite hard to make)
It's going to be a Haalu town on an island, I'll post more details when I post the file.

[Why]

I'd suggest trying one thing at a time. By that I mean, either an exterior, a loose interior, or a quest using the existing things. That way you can focus on building a small but great showcase without having to worry about so much different things all at once.

[alex25]

My next showcase is out. It's a Hlaalu island in the Bitter Coast(-13,5) but you can take a ship from Vivec (there's a new NPC next to Vivec's shipmaster that will take you there)
Description: A small/medium Hlaalu settelment surounded by walls. It has a number of buildings(but only the manor is open the other doors don't lead anywhere, 6 NPC and some objects. There also is a Tribunal temple outside but you can't visit it. This is only an exterior showcase(so don't rewiew the manor), my next update will also feature interiors.

[blackbird]

My review:
-Terrain_rocks_AI_01 is half floating
-ex_hlaalu_wall_up_01 is caspering with another hlaalu wall piece
-the southwestern walls are floating
-flora_tree_ai_02 is surrounded by stone textures, you're allowed to use grass and ground textures in a city
-the northwestern guard tower has no door
-I like the bridge
-furn_guarcart00 is floating
-crate_01_eggs10 near the guarcart is also floating
-the house next of the cart should either be sunk or the terrain should be elevated
-all your com sacks 2 may be lowered a bit, so they don't look like they're resting on one point

-Your whole city has only 1 texture; you could use more textures
-You should smooth/soften the land
-There could be a shorter way to reach the temple


And now I come to the major errors:
- I don't see vertex coloring/shading
- this exterior still looks like a WIP; there should be at least 6 completed cells and not one semi completed cells
- I don't see wilderness at all, not even textures
- I do not see any sea floor decoration
- Your file isn't clean. It's not easy to clean an exterior

Important notice:
I will not review your file until I see 6 completed cells and each of those cells should have more then 100 objects. Those objects are mainly rocks, plants and trees for wilderness and sea floor cells.

[alex25]

Thank,s for the review blackbird but isn't a six cell town (or even city) a bit large. I mean Balmora only has 4 cells and it's the second biggest city there. Anyway I'll expand the town into a full island and design a interior cell (for the 2 linked buildings at the gate. Also i'll move the temple but this town is only going to have 1 gate.

[jonarus_drakus]

The town itself doesn't have to cover the whole 6 cells (indeed, it would be better if it didn't). The reason for setting such a "high" number for the whole showcase is esentialy to 'force' prospective modders to do some generic terrain work and not just town planning.

oh by the way, Hi, I'm JD

[alex25]

Oh, sorry that was probably a stupid question. I'll enlarge the island and basicaly make a bitter coast style swamp out of it and . Also do you think it's ok if i'll link a number of buildings underground(as an interior cell).

[Katze]

Because the majority of our terrain work is wilderness and not town, your showcase needs to show you can do this. Use rocks, plants, trees, grasses and textures cleverly to create am interesting wilderness for the area outside of your town instead of simply expanding your town over all six cells (you're right, any town above 3 cells would have to be a really significant place)

Sure, buildings can be linked underground, if you think that helps your concept.

[alex25]

I don't mind doing wilderness simply had an strange idea that a exterior showcase must be a town.

[blackbird]

It's not because Haplo's tut is a small hlaalu town, that your showcas must be a town either. Most of the exterior claims are wilderness cells and some contain a village or a city with some wilderness.

[alex25]

Well I,ve been away for a couple of days (sorry)
and I only now manage to post the improved version of the showcase.
Added a forest and a ruin in the south of the island, added clutter on the sea floor and generaly exanded the mod.
There are also 2 finished INTERIORS: one is the tradehouse (you can enter from either of the 2 buildings that are connected by a bridge, they are also connected by an underground inn of sorts) and a small house in the building up the hill side.

[Praedator]

There are also 2 finished INTERIORS

If you want to apply for interior modder you should pick your best interior preferably at least 3x2 tiles large and two floors in any style. It should be well cluttered and we prefer that you use de_p furniture.

This you should post as a seperate .esp, thus not any exterior, nor connections to it. Name your interior the same as you named your file and post it here in your showcase.

[alex25]

Praedator here is your interior model. It is in Hlaalu style and it's occupy's 2 hlaalu_b_25 and an underground section beetween them.

Not related but can someone be a exterior and an interior modder at the same time?

[Andres Indoril]

One can work their way into every single modding usergroup, should they try.

[Praedator]

This is a quick review;

Clean: Very dirty
Gridsnap Used: Yes
Northmarker Set: No
Fits Exterior: Yes
IllegalToSleepHere: Yes
Lighting Settings: No Fog is set and Ambient as well as Sunlight are too high
Style Mixing: Yes, de_p, de_r, de_rm, com, dwemer items

Review:
- you have placed all rugs and furniture with angle-snap, you should rotate them freehanded, so they look off, and wildly placed.
- you made a large bar with several tables, but except the wineracks there is no clutter at all, not even a cup! We require our modders to clutter every area they make with clutter that fits. For a bar that would be tons of bottles, cups, goblets, drinks, some plates and bowls with cutlery. Not to forget some food or simple dishes.
- instead of the bedrooms you made in the bar area you could make a dancing stage and some musical instruments.
- instead of several small vendors you could make two good bedrooms on the top floors and one vendor where you see it fit. Play with the tiles and arrange staircases so that they occupy the least space, to leave larger more square rooms to utilize.
- you haven`t cluttered many parts of the house, only a rug and/or tapestry is not enough.
- you have used too many copies of each sort of book, stick to 3 of a kind max. Furthermore you haven`t used any bookends and several books stand loose, they should touch one another.
- do not place object half on a rug and half on the floor. Put them either on the rug or on the floor.
- the crates are aligned too straight, rotate and or scale them a bit to look randomly placed.
- sacks that are on top of eachother should be bled a little to look more natural. All sacks should be bled into the surface below, so far that they rest naturally.
- items on de_p furniture should be rotated to match the surface below.
- you have no lamps, lanterns, or light whatsoever. Except two 500 radius lightbulbs which is much too strong. Use many 64 or few 128 lamps for normal sized rooms and 256 for very large rooms.

Comments:

I strongly recommend to start over with a small interior with two floors, use de_p furniture to show your rotating skills. Clean your file with Tesame before you upload it. That means removing all references except the things you actually made yourself, like the cell itself and maybe a key or chest you made. There is no need to add NPCs. You should also set a Northmarker, for the cell to align with the exterior. You should set your light settings, to do that open a vanilla MW interior that looks like yours, note the settings and apply them to your cell. Do not mix styles, that means stick to one sort of furniture. We prefer de_p for showcases. Your house is much too empty, it easily could hold 1000 objects. By that I mean that you should clutter as much as you can.

[alex25]

Thank's for the review Praedator. I'll make a small interior showcase and improve this one as well.

[alex25]

Ok this is a new interior showcase: it's a small Hlaalu style bookshop with 2 floors, clutter and everithing it needs (I think). It dosen't have style mixing (it's de_p)
I'll come back with updates on the other showcase when I recive a exterior review.

[blackbird]

Here is a quick review of this exterior:
1. I asked that every cell you should have made/edited, contained at least 100 objects. Not every cell has it.
A lile 14,-4 has only 1 object, since it's edited I would ask for an amount of 100 refs, or at least 80, because it's a sea floor.
2. I still don't see vertex coloring
3. The BC trees should always be sunk a little
4. There are only rocks in the city and not in the wilderness. Add a certain amount of rocks and flora in the wilderness.
5. Name all your cells wou want to edit
6. I see more textures now, but I also see texture seams. I hope you know what a texture seam is.
7. The town has a jagged surface, try to smooth it.
8. ex_dae_ruin_entry.max is not meant to have a door (look closely at the mesh).

[Praedator]

This is a quick review;

Clean: Very dirty
Gridsnap Used: Yes
Northmarker Set: Yes
Fits Exterior: No
IllegalToSleepHere: Yes
Lighting Settings: Good
Style Mixing: No

Review;
- We encourage people to rotate everything they put in as clutter. What you did with the books, leaning to eachother is nice. However be aware that the object should rest naturally on the surface. That means that with the book you should rotate the bottom so that the bottom touches the lower surface over its whole width.
- Several books stand freely and do not touch any other books, they should be aligned to stand tight to eachother and where needed supported by TR_bookends.
- bk_BrothersOfDarkness is put a top of a few books, four touch and three don't, that does not look naturally, either remove the book or rotate it to look naturally.
- The table in the bedroom is hovering above the floor (severe floating). Be sure to use the 'f' command (simply 'f' key on your keyboard) with every object you place. The command lowers the object to the nearest surface straight below it.
- Common sacks need to be bled into the surface below,in order to look natural. The bottoms of the sacks_02 should be bled so far that about 75-80% of the bottom bleeds into floor. The other sacks should be bled so far that the bottom of the sack looks natural (bulging).
- leave some space between tapestries and objects.
- Everything on a poor surface (de_p) should be rotated to match the poor surface. Look at the coloured lines at the bottom of every object. 'F' the object and check how many of those lines are dotted. Dotted lines means that the object is touching the surface, no lines and you are too deep, full lines and you are too high. Generally we require that at least two lines across eachother are dotted completely, three lines is better, and four lines dotted is perfect (what is not always possible due surface). Rotate everything on the z-axis before you start rotating on other axis'.

Comments:
Good that you started another smaller interior. Although you improved on several points, you forgot to match the interior with an exterior, what usually means that you need to adjust the floorplan of your interior, so your file is now send back. Naturally you will need to clutter every area you add. TR requires that you post 'clean' file, that means clean the bad references out of your file with Tesame. You can download Tesame at many different sites. Everything which is not new in your file (like all the books, clutter and food) should be removed. Items like keys, selfmade containers and NPCs as well as the original Cell should stay as they are new and not available in TR_data. Use the 'f' command with every single object, and rotate every single object when you place it.

[alex25]

Thank's. I'm going to replace the stairs so that the upper floor becomes the basement and clean it with Tesame (I wanted tonow the errors the file had before cleaning it)
I'll probably post the file in 30 minutes or so.

[Praedator]

just be sure that it fits an exterior.

[alex25]

Ok. This is the new interior. It fits an exterior( ground floor + basement) it is clean 100%. The table is properly rotated and on the floor. Also added some bookends and made a few changes so it should be ok.

[Praedator]

This is a quick review;

Clean: Yes
Gridsnap Used: Yes
Northmarker Set: Yes
Fits Exterior: No
IllegalToSleepHere: Yes
Lighting Settings: Good
Style Mixing: No

Review;
- The interior does not fit to the exterior, as the placement of the door in the short wall gives the interior two choices, b_14 and b_18, and both of them have an upper floor.
- You have used the right bookends, de_p, but their placement is wrong. They should not bleed at the bottom and they should hold the books upright by resting against them.
That means that you need to rotate them 180 degrees and place them on top of the shelf.
- You haven't arranged all the books to stand tight to one another, their sides should touch and leave no gap in between.
- A few books are bleeding, like the bk_frontierconquestaccommodat on the shelf, in the entrance room, bleeds into the standing books.
- Some items like bk_great_houses on the shelf float well above the surface which they should rest on. Use the 'f' command with every object you place.
- You have used an open end bar at the end of the bar which is closest to the wall. You should use a 3 side closed end.
- You have used limeware in your interior. Limeware is not allowed unless asked for.
- The quill sticks straight into the inkwell, rotate it a bit to let it rest naturally.
- Objects on poor surfaces like de_p should be rotated on all axis' (x, y, z.) to match the surface.
- A rug is bleeding in the railing of the stairway and into the bar.
- The sack_02 is bled too deep into the floor and bleeds into the urns as well. The sacks have a rounded edge at the bottom, one should see the rounded edge completely and a few points down to it.

Comments;
If it is a bookshop yo want to make, vary the books more and add another shelf with books in the main entrance room. Be sure that you rotate them to match the poor de_p surface. Also rearrange either the door to fit a vanilla MW exterior, or make a second floor that it fits b_14 or b_18. Mind they also have a door upstairs. Try to clutter very well, like a few plates with cutlery on a table or a bench near the stairway, so that the place looks lived in. Rotate every single object you place, so it looks more natural, or random. Take your time, there is no need to rush.

[alex25]

The bookends were ment to look like a part of the shelf (I know the traditional way to put them just wanted to be a bit innovative). Any way should I change them or leave them
(I de all the other changes you recomanded)

[Praedator]

We encourage modders to try creative things, and it is good you do, but the bookends didn`t work like that. They didn`t support any books and they bled so far that the bottom ends of the bookends showed through the bottom of the shelf.

[alex25]

Ok give me 5 minutes and I'll solve that and post the file.