Mathlord's Showcase

Mathlord · Post by **Mathlord** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:35 am

Hey guys, well I've been taking a break from Oblivion for a while, and I'm ready to get back to work. I have had a nasty urge to do some CS work, and I remember seeing this site a while back, so I decided to put my skills, if you can even call them skills, to the test. I am still a total noob at the CS but I know the basics of it. I am submitting my showcase for interior design (obviously for oblivion) and I was just wondering if there is any specific thing you want to see? Like should I make just a simple farmhouse, or do you want to see grid snapping, snap to reference, etc.? Or a mixture of both? I really don't know what to make, so if someone could give me some direction I'll get started straight away, and should have it finished soon enough.

Also, in the past when I have tried to make mods, I have encountered a problem in the CS, maybe one of you can help. Sometimes when I go to save a file the CS will get an error and delete the file and all the hard work I've put into it. This doesn't happen all the time, so I pray every time I go to save a file. I really don't want that to happen to me, especially if I'm going to be a TR modder. So ya, please let me know if there is any remedy for that.

I look forward to working with you all, and see you in the forums!

-Mathlord

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:03 am

being able to use gridsnap is a must, so you should make a showcase that is more than one static for the shell.

I don't know the specifics for Oblivion, but other than that you should just try to ensure the interior is at a detail as high as, if not surpassing the original bethesda ints.

Make it interesting, but detailed and realistic. Finally, welcome to TR =]

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:48 pm

Welcome to the salt mines comrade

Catharsis' point about the only real requirement of an interior showcase is that it be interesting, detailed and realistic (in game terms at least). Is by all means acurate. I feel 'functional' should be added to the list here as well. I mean, dont just try to create something that looks like it COULD exist within the game world. Make something that DOES. Build your interior, furnish it, clutter and decorate it, then go back and move things around a little, knock bottles on thier sides, have pictures hanging at slight angles, whatever it takes to make your interior look like it is a place that is actually used. There should be no limits beyond those within your own mind, if the CS trys to tell you that you cant do something, work around the CS and find a way to do it anyway. In the end its the small things like these that set a good mod apart from a great mod.

As for what sort of interior to do... Well that to should only be limited by your imagination. A farmhouse is all well and good, but what kind of farm is it? vegitables? Wheat & Bread? Livestock?
If you feel like testing yourself however... Try to find a nice quite section of road-side somewhere, and make yourself a little inn/tavern (yes, i do mean make an exterior for it too!). Make the interior truely alive by adding not only the innkeeper(s) but maybe a customer or two as well. For extra points, actually add a rentable room (If only to aquint yourself with the rudiments of scripting). And one last thing - If you want to impress, make an Inn without using one of the existing inn specific buildings (the ability to make improvisations like this would go a long way).

Now, i may well have set what seems like a pretty high bar. But dont panic if your unsure if you can get to that stage on your first go, its not a race by any means. Take your time and do the best you can, and myself and the other TR Modders will help you as best we can.

Good luck, and welcome to TR.

PS: Your 'error' is not one I've encountered myself, but it sounds vaguely like some sort of instability in the base program (the CS in this case).

Mathlord · Post by **Mathlord** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:38 pm

Thank you both for the reply. I'll try to start messing around with different ideas I have for an interior and if one sticks, I'll just go with that.

I'll get started right away, so my showcase should be finished.... I don't even think I can give an estimate, it's been a while since I've used the CS, so I'm not sure how proficient I am with it yet. I would say sometime in the near future.

fstony · Post by **fstony** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:35 am

If your CS is crashing the first time you try to save a file, try this: http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/CS_Crashes

If it saves, you should be able to edit that file with fewer crashes. If you have already saved a file with your work in it, you'll just have to live with whatever crashes occur.

Mathlord · Post by **Mathlord** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:34 pm

Sorry about the long wait guys, my Oblivion was acting up a lot, so I decided to reinstall it. It wasn't Installing properly, then I finally get it to install, and now I keep getting an error here and an error there. So, I am totally cleaning my hard drive for anything related to Oblivion and going to the store to pick up another copy sometime today or tomorrow, my showcase should be done sometime within this coming week.

Once again, I am truly sorry about the delay.

Mathlord · Post by **Mathlord** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:06 am

Question.

Can I use TESAME to clean my mod in the Oblivion CS?

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:43 am

No, to clean files in OB you need to use the TES 4 plugin utility. (or perhaps something else, thats just what I use)

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:02 pm

i use TES4 Gecko, it has both manual and automatic cleaning, as well as silent file generation, worldspace LOD correction, esp/esm conversion, and all kinds of stuff that comes in handy.

Mathlord · Post by **Mathlord** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:48 am

Alright, I am still alive. I have had a ton of RL issues going on, preventing my from completing my showcase, and I am really sorry about that. I am finally getting some time back into my schedule, so I am going to have more time to mod now.

Also, I have totally given up on interior modding. I can do it, but there are so many people who do it so much better, and I don't want to submit mediocre work. So, I am switching my showcase to quest writing, the one thing I think I am not bad at. I should have a showcase up within the week, if my CS cooperates that is.

EDIT- Another question. When I load up the CS, am I including Shivering Isles and KotN?

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:56 am

If you plan on including shivering isles content in your mod, then go ahead and make it dependant on shivering isles. KotN doesn't include any "must have" resources, so you can skip that, and increase the compatibility of your mod at the same time!

Mathlord · Post by **Mathlord** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:22 am

Alright, two things.

I have decided to switch back to interior modding, since my CS is getting very weird when I try to create quests. Sorry for switching back and forth.

Second thing. Can someone help me install TES4Gecko? I just extracted the file. Can I just run the .jar file from there? I thought you had to make a shortcut and modify it or something like that. If someone could help me that would be great. Because whenever I try to clean a mod, or do anything else with it for that matter, it will start loading, get to 75% and then just freeze, every time.

Thanks in advance, sorry it is taking so long to get this done.

FelixAmherst · Post by **FelixAmherst** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:04 pm

It does freeze at 75% for a long time, depending on your system. Leave it for longer, go and have a drink or something, then come back and if its not boogying within 15 mins, ask again.

Mines just a shortcut to the jar file.

Mathlord · Post by **Mathlord** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:42 pm

Alright, I have to go, but I have most of the house done. I would like to change a couple things, I am also adding some kind of underground cave or tomb leading from the trap door in the corner.

Not complete, but you can see the int of the farmhouse, it's mostly complete.

-Mathlord

PS- I know the outside of the house is very bland, I am a terrible exterior modder, so bear with me.

EDIT- forgot to say the house is in Weye, right next to the inn.

FelixAmherst · Post by **FelixAmherst** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:18 pm

Review

- Clean as far as I can tell
- You have used a unique canvas. Please just use a normal one. Its also angled funny.
- Barrel floats.
- Lower class rug floats
- Lower cup tan bleeds into plate next to it just slightly.
- Lower class rug on table floats
- Furniture needs to be Ã¢â‚¬Å“fÃ¢â‚¬â„¢edÃ¢â‚¬Â a few times before it sits nicely.

All in all a good int. Needs to be finished up and add some more stuff to it. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a bit bland. But you said that you had not finished so good stuff so far.

Mathlord · Post by **Mathlord** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:42 am

Alright fixed all of that. I added some more stuff, but I cant really think of anything else to add... it hard to put something interesting in that small of a space.

Anyway, I am still working on the basement... I haven't had a lot of time for this at all will school and all, but I think I'll have more time within the next week or so. My schedule is finally starting to clear up

.

Also, I am having a lot of trouble with gridsnap, I am trying to straighten that out. I promise this will be done soon, really sorry about the long wait.

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:26 pm

I just had a look through this, and might as well throw in some errors I found with your interior.

-the easel bleeds into the ground
-some of your DrinkWine0Cheap float slightly above the wineracks they rest in.
-the LowerClassBowl03 on the winerack wih the apples in it bleeds into the winerack slightly.
-some of the wine and beer bottles sat on the wineracks bleed slighty
-CupboardFoodLower bleeds into the ground
-LowerClasstable02
-PaintbrushJar01 bleeds
-LowerClasstable06 bleeds into the rug

I get the feeling you placed a lot of these objects (like the shoes on the chest of drawers) using havok. Please don't do this unless you really have to, the results are rarely better than placing them by hand, the implementation of Havok in Oblivion was frankly terrible.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but for fine tuning rotations, just use the object properties window.

Are there any modular architecture sets for Oblivion in the vein of all the ones that were in Morrowind? I don't feel comfortable in recommending anyone who hasn't demonstrated skills in architecture design, and the single-piece houses of Oblivion don't allow this.

With regards to gridsnap, just make sure you snap to a reference in your int, otherwise it can be a bit funny. Also, always have it set to a power of two (16, 32 or 64 are ideal) in the user preferences or it won't work properly.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:18 pm

I was gonna do a full review, but Cath beat me to it...

There are some modular sets for oblivion. Leyawiin and chapel undercroft set being two city type ones, along with pretty much every dungeon set. But none are realy morrowind grade. Just another case of Obliv being "simplified" to cater to the lower denominators.

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:38 pm

JD, you've been involved in the OB side of TR a lot more than me, do you know how the Hammerfell architecture is being handled? I looked through the middle class goldmoor stuff in Objects of Tamriel, and it was modular. I hope everything else follows suit. If there isn't any opportunity for architectural freedom in Hammerfell, I'll probably be a lot less interested in doing ints for it.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:09 pm

were hoping to do city architecture in a non-modular fashion. it saves time and space and allows us to use more creative building shapes and layouts which would not have been possible with a tileset. however, modular objects such as walls are incorporated so that each interior can look a little different. the essential difference between hammerfell and morrowind is the number of interiors: we wont need to create 500 interiors in the same style (see almalexia), hence having a little repetition is not that bad.

Mathlord · Post by **Mathlord** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:52 am

Alright, fixed all of that.

Man, I just can not get my pieces to line up.... I'll work on it more tomorrow.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:01 am

Gridsnap isnt infalable, especial when working on angles that arent versions of 90 (180, 270, etc). You may have to make decimal point adjustments by hand through the object properties window (dont move the objects again afterwards, it will clean wipe any of you minute -but neccisary- changes). I've had a look at your previously posted version (already reviewed by Cath) and it seems pretty nice thematicaly. The only thing i would add to Cath's review is that the ambient lighting could be tweeked up a little (i generaly use settings of 50-70 for interiors, darker for lower class, yes, but generaly one value will still be different to give the entire interior a little more colour).

Cant wait to see what you come up with for that basement either...

JD

Mathlord · Post by **Mathlord** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:23 pm

Alright, well even though the Oblivion project has gone from TR, I have still been hanging around here, just watching the progress you guys are making on Morrowind, it's astounding really. Anyway, I felt like I needed to contribute to the project and not just hide in some random area on the forums. I really don't know much about Morrowind lore, and I just started playing about a week ago. So you can consider me the noob of noobs. As far as the CS goes; I have some experience, but this CS and the Oblivion one aren't exactly twins in how they work, so I'm still getting my bearings.

Anyway, the point of this post. I'm going for Interior Modding, and I thought I'd just post a little something I whipped up (definitely not promotion-worthy material though). The interior is located in the Vivec Foreign Quater Canalworks. I'm sure I have some style mixing, hopefully the file is clean, and I don't think I should have too many floaters/bleeders. Lighting; I'm still trying to figure out good combos, so for now I mimicked the canalwork's lighting to an extent.

The backdrop for the int would be some kind of lower/middle class alchemist who is more or less a shut in (hence his home being located in the canalworks). I will probably be making some kind of two story house, or a cave for my "official" showcase once I get better with the CS, but I thought I should post this and get some suggestions for certain things (if I need any?).

Sorry for the wall of text.

EDIT- Uploaded new version of My First Int.

Scamp · Post by **Scamp** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:55 pm

a quick review:

clean: yes
gridsnap used: yes
northmarker set: yes
style mixing: yes (com_plates and com_wood_cups)

-first of all, you do neither need to link your interior to another one nor to an exterior. Just concentrate on your int.
-fog is missing
-light settings are ok, imo ambient is a bit dark but it's fine though

review:

-avoid placing anything half-on, half-off rugs
-chest_small_01_gold_25 ; the lock needs to face away from the wall
-be careful with de_p furniture, all objects have to be rotated to match the surface
-well, I don't think food should lie around bare on bookshelves, I'd put them at least in some bowl
-potion_local_liquor_01 floats
-imo, misc_uni_pillow_01 has been sunk too much
-ingred_bread_01 needs to be rotated twice so that it fits with the plate
-misc_com_wood_fork floats twice
-misc_com_wood_knife floats twice
-misc_com_wood_spoon_01 needs to be rotated twice
-I think you could do with more scaling, especially when placing similar objects next to each other

this is a quite nice interior, especially for someone who doesn't really have much experience with the morrowind CS. Just be careful with these objects placed on de_p surfaces.
If you have any questions about Morrowind lore, feel free to ask around here.

Mathlord · Post by **Mathlord** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:04 pm

Alright fixed all of that. Removed all the wood and replaced with Redware, I'm not sure if I still have style mixing? I'll see I guess...

Could someone explain how fog works to me? Is there a specific set of numbers you're supposed to have? Is there supposed to be fog in every int? I just selected a random greyish color from the pallet for the time being.

Also, I have started on two story house for my official showcase. It's pretty big, only about 20-30% done right now. Hopefully should have it done by Friday. But yeah, this int is pretty much finished up, unless I missed any mistakes.

Sorry, I would have posted this a lot sooner, but for some reason I couldn't connect to the website? It was down for the 2 days I didn't post... for me at least.

-Mathlord

EDIT- Sorry, did't see the "server downtime" post ><

Scamp · Post by **Scamp** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:11 pm

you shouldn't set fog too high, it's usually supposed to be kinda similar to the ambient light settings. Just have a look at some other promoted showcases

But please don't make your new int too big, otherwise I will be too lazy to review it

btw, you have up to three efforts for every int before you have to make another one. How about uploading your file with all the errors fixed?

Mathlord · Post by **Mathlord** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:17 pm

Yeah, I already uploaded it. It's in the spot where the old one was (couple posts above this one). I just thought that I should save some space or bandwidth or whatever and instead of just leaving my old file sit there to rot, I'd just replace it with a new one.. should I not do that from now on? ><

And for the two story house thing, I'm going to scrap that one, it's too big and I have no inspiration right now. Once I think of something good, I'll start working on it. I got a shitload of stuff to do for school right now though, so don't expect anything until maybe sometime this weekend, or around Monday-Tuesdayish.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:28 pm

I don't read edited posts, so I would recommend making a new post when you upload a new file.

Mathlord · Post by **Mathlord** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:35 pm

Alright, I'll remember that for the future. But the other file is in the old files spot for now. (No point in uploading two of the same file).

Praedator · Post by **Praedator** » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:18 am

If you seek a speedy review I would recommend you to post the latest file in your latest post. This is to avoid problems reviewing the wrong file.

Shapeshiftr · Post by **Shapeshiftr** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:24 am

Review time, ready to get a bunch of shit?

Clean: You have the 72 evil GMSTs. You can clean the out with Enchanted Editor or TESAME, your preference.

Northmarker: Yes

Grid Snapped: Yes

Style Mixing : This is my only qualm with this interior. Dude, you were almost perfect... You got big time _de and _com style mixing. Pick one, and stick with it. No exceptions, except for brooms, I think? You have _com AND _de tableware all over the place. This is a _de int, so stick with _de, m'kay?

Review: See above; also, rugs bleed quite a ways into the ground. Get them just barely bleeding, or preferably not at all. Shelf is way too low, also. Just highlight the shelf and everything on it, hold down Z and drag it all up to about 0 Z position.

Other than that, with the style mixing being my big concern, I thought that this was a pretty damn well made int. You rotated the objects well, cluttered efficiently, and the table was set well. The light settings were OK, but I can live with that. Tapestry behind bookshelf is not preferred, take away.

As for bleeders and floaters - no floaters, but the table is bleeding by about a quarter inch. Everything on the table (at least most) is bleeding a tiny bit, most noticeably the redware bowl. A few things on the shelf also bleed a tiny bit. Those bowls are ok, as they're meant to bleed a bit. The dagger on the bookcase should be rotated so its point is resting on the bookshelf. The alembic is bleeding slightly on one side, but I'll let that slide, as it's hard to deal with. I think I found a few more floaters on the bookshelf; check over it yourself, that's the best thing to do. Actually, you should definitely look at each object for floating/bleeding before submitting. Hold down V and move the mouse to get a more precise, closer look; that helps. And...AW! One floater, the chest on the bottom shelf. Rotate it a bit, don't be lazy

And, finally...psh. The things on the shelf were well rotated, but then you had to ruin it by bleeding them after rotating. I'm really nitpicky, but that's how you have to be to get anything done. In life, and in TR.

That should be all. You actually, overall, did pretty well for de_p furniture, despite all the (minor) bleeders, as it's tough to work with. If you just hadn't mixed those styles, I would've recommended you!

Feriluce · Post by **Feriluce** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:38 am

He doesn't have very much style mixing tbh.

The only things that need to go are the silverware (Its only used in rich imperial ints), and possibly the com candles (Not sure what the policy is on those).

Redware is always fine in de ints, and as a general rule you can always use com clutter if theres no de equivalent (sacks, bottles, plates, etc.)

Edit: The dagger is fine. It wouldn't rest on its blade if you put it down Irl. The bowl on the table is actually not meant to be bled, as it has a flat bottom.

Shapeshiftr · Post by **Shapeshiftr** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:58 am

Yeah, the containers aren't what I was worried about. It's just, when I looked at the object list, practically all of the misc items were com.

Plates, silverware, and candles. Wow, that actually doesn't seem like a lot now that I see it. Still, style mixing is style mixing, misc items or not.

I thought I remembered something about blades resting like that, though that might be just for short swords and up. Though weapon blades are pretty heavy. I don't know...

Yeah, the redware might have been what I was seeing mostly, and yes, redware is fine.

Hm, still needs to be fixed.

Feriluce · Post by **Feriluce** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:12 am

Well, stuff like plates, bottles, etc. doesn't have a de variant, so its fine to use the com version.

Shapeshiftr · Post by **Shapeshiftr** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:17 am

I'm fairly confident that there are de_ plates. Prove me wrong?

Also, said nothing about bottles, also fine.

Feriluce · Post by **Feriluce** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:42 am

There you go

Shapeshiftr · Post by **Shapeshiftr** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:41 am

Wow, I've obviously been away from the CS for a long time.

Anyway, let's stop the flame war on Math's thread, and I'd say that minus those bleeders, you have a pretty solid understanding of interior modding. I don't know about you, Feriluce, but I'm Recommending Mathlord for Interior Modding. Let's see what the admins say.

Feriluce · Post by **Feriluce** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:03 am

Shapeshiftr wrote:Wow, I've obviously been away from the CS for a long time.

Anyway, let's stop the flame war on Math's thread, and I'd say that minus those bleeders, you have a pretty solid understanding of interior modding. I don't know about you, Feriluce, but I'm Recommending Mathlord for Interior Modding. Let's see what the admins say.

Yes, definately a very nice looking interior, although a bit small. The only thing thats a problem is a lack of knowledge of all those MW policies (like limiting silverware, limeware, etc.), and that should be easy enough to pick up along the way.

Mathlord · Post by **Mathlord** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:20 pm

Thanks for the review and all the feedback guys. I have a shitload to do for school, I actually haven't gotten to even go on the computer for two days, and now I just found out that I am going away for the weekend, so I won't be able to fix anything/continue work on my other int until Monday, sorry. I just thought I'd check up on my thread real fast.

Alright, about the Int. Just to let you know, I didn't submit this showcase to be promoted. It was my first Morrowind interior and I simply just wanted some feedback and suggestions on what needed to be done differently. I wasn't expecting it to be promotion worth material. I still have a lot to learn about this CS, and (as you can see) I still need work with style mixing and knowing what certain items go with certain ints. And I'm sure it would be easy enough to learn that all along the way, but I don't want to be promoted just for doing some small room, then go to be overwhelmed by trying to do some necromancer lair or something (especially when I don't even know what type of int to use, what kind of items to put in, etc etc.)

So, and I can't believe I am saying this, I am requesting a kind of... suspension? on the promotion until I get a little more comfortable with the CS, if it's alright with you guys. I am currently working on a two story house, that would require a bit more knowledge of the CS to complete (which I am picking up, slowly, but surely). I was going to use that for my "promotion showcase".

Any comments, suggestions, death threats, etc. post it here. Once again, thanks for the feedback (:
-Mathlord

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:24 pm

Take as much time as you need to make it look completely awesome. You're not being held to any deadlines so don't worry.